You have no proof whatsoever that this song isn't unique to ou.

https://twitter.com/MikeEvans25/status/574791659617193984


I was an SAE at a university in Texas from 2000-2004. The exact same chant was often used then. This is not isolated.

http://i.imgur.com/l7ZiIkD.png

Let me say I believe PhiAlpha when he said that this was never used when he was in chapter. I knew and was on good terms with several SAE's; obviously they wouldn't have anything to do with me if they were cartoonish bigots. But if there's smoke there's fire. I graduated in 2009. Clearly something went off the rails in this house between now and then.

You don't fix a problem as serious as systematic racism by acting like this is something isolated when it is obviously not.

"...no one actually got hurt..." SMH

I have a question. Where are the students moving who got kicked out of the house? I realize people are angry and don't care but I was thinking, where are they supposed to go?

The official statement by Boren says if they need help they can contact the Dean of Students.

I have a question. Where are the students moving who got kicked out of the house? I realize people are angry and don't care but I was thinking, where are they supposed to go?

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"...no one actually got hurt..." SMH

Yeah, seriously.

So if there aren't bone fractures, no one got hurt? Sigh.

"...no one actually got hurt..." SMH

+1

I have a question. Where are the students moving who got kicked out of the house? I realize people are angry and don't care but I was thinking, where are they supposed to go?

Several fraternity members live in houses around campus and others have family that live in the area so I would imagine that's the first step. When this happened to sigma chi after a member died in 2004, the housing board leased up a bunch of empty apartments and the students lived in them for the rest of the semester. This creates an interesting issue because not only is it the semester halfway over, but they won't be able to lease anything beyond three months since this is the second semester.

It really sucks for the students that had nothing to do with this. That was one bus out of 5-10 going back and forth to that party and despite what everyone seems to thing, there are many members that had nothing to do with this and will be punished just the same...really sucks for those guys.

I didn't watch the video but I saw the transcription of the words to the song. Granted, it's been a long, long time since I was a Greek at OU (I graduated in 1968!) but those words sound vaguely familiar. I can't guarantee it was an SAE song, when I heard it though.

Is this the 3 or 4th time the SAEs have been booted? When I was in schools, it seemed like that each fraternity had it's share of knuckleheads or knuckle-draggers, if you prefer But they each also had some responsible guys who kept the rest of them in line. That doesn't seem to hold true any more.

https://twitter.com/MikeEvans25/status/574791659617193984



http://i.imgur.com/l7ZiIkD.png

Let me say I believe PhiAlpha when he said that this was never used when he was in chapter. I knew and was on good terms with several SAE's; obviously they wouldn't have anything to do with me if they were cartoonish bigots. But if there's smoke there's fire. I graduated in 2009. Clearly something went off the rails in this house between now and then.

You don't fix a problem as serious as systematic racism by acting like this is something isolated when it is obviously not.


One guy tweeting he heard it 15 years ago isn't hard evidence and a little zoom on the picture reveals that's not SAE its Fiji. 10333

I didn't watch the video but I saw the transcription of the words to the song. Granted, it's been a long, long time since I was a Greek at OU (I graduated in 1968!) but those words sound vaguely familiar. I can't guarantee it was an SAE song, when I heard it though.

Is this the 3 or 4th time the SAEs have been booted? When I was in schools, it seemed like that each fraternity had it's share of knuckleheads or knuckle-draggers, if you prefer But they each also had some responsible guys who kept the rest of them in line. That doesn't seem to hold true any more.

2 times in 100+ years

PhiAlpha I whole heartily believe your story and I didn't mean to come
Off as attacking the house. As a student now at Ou I have friends in SAE and I know they are not the types for this. As well as even more friends in the OSU house and again they wouldn't be caught dead saying it. But the reality is from the reddit page you can tell this is not a song only to the Ou chapter. I was more upset somebody had to bring in mixon and hill in something unrelated to them. I looked at pledging SAE so I know this isn't that they are all bad people or a song taught to every member but more the sins of a few.

It's funny that other fraternities use the term 'basement song' because I think we were one of the few houses that actually had a basement and that was absolutely the only place we ever sang them.

This was at the old DU house just north of the Kappa house; there is now new construction there for a Kappa annex.

One guy tweeting he heard it 15 years ago isn't hard evidence and a little zoom on the picture reveals that's not SAE its Fiji. 10333

I guess you didn't read a few posts up where I linked reddit from a month ago discussing the song at texas that is close to the same

And anoth comment from a 3rd southern school saying the song exists there

It's funny that other fraternities use the term 'basement song' because I think we were one of the few houses that actually had a basement and that was absolutely the only place we ever sang them.

This was at the old DU house just north of the Kappa house; there is now new construction there for a Kappa annex.

I seem to remember that sororities called them'closet' songs' when I was in school. But the subject of the songs was usually about the 'loose morals' of other sororities. The odd thing was that we all seemed to know 2 or 3 that belonged to other sororities.

PhiAlpha I whole heartily believe your story and I didn't mean to come
Off as attacking the house. As a student now at Ou I have friends in SAE and I know they are not the types for this. As well as even more friends in the OSU house and again they wouldn't be caught dead saying it. But the reality is from the reddit page you can tell this is not a song only to the Ou chapter. I was more upset somebody had to bring in mixon and hill in something unrelated to them. I looked at pledging SAE so I know this isn't that they are all bad people or a song taught to every member but more the sins of a few.
You might mention to them that having a confederate battle flag hanging in view of the public sends a bad message.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/ocolly.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/ed/eed72344-c616-11e4-ae0a-078800916c4c/54fd251ca2c16.image.jpg?resize=915%2C760

SAE's HQ is mandating that by March 9th, pledging be ended for good. Easier said than done, I think, but Sig Ep has done okay with Balanced Man... so why not?

I really applaud Boren and how he has handled this. Great leadership.

SAE's HQ is mandating that by March 9th, pledging be ended for good. Easier said than done, I think, but Sig Ep has done okay with Balanced Man... so why not?

That's old news. Pledgeship free membership started in the fall.

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KOCO-5 Oklahoma City ‏@koconews 2m2 minutes ago
Boren: "We don't plan to help them (if they're looking for housing) ... We don't provide student services to bigots." #OU #SAE

just disgusting on every level.

You might mention to them that having a confederate battle flag hanging in view of the public sends a bad message.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/ocolly.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/ed/eed72344-c616-11e4-ae0a-078800916c4c/54fd251ca2c16.image.jpg?resize=915%2C760

There's been confederate flags hanging in that house for decades. It just looks worse right now because of what happened at ou. SAEs chapter president last year is an African American. Thats not to say it's not in poor taste because it is but its only news because of ou. Confederate flag hanging is pretty stereotypical fraternity behavior and southern behavior in general.

I called the house and the have taken it down. A lot of this is the o'colly trying to get clicks.

Who was actually hurt by the chant? It's descpicable, ignorant and all that yes, but no one actually got hurt.
Joe Mixon hit a girl so hard he literally rearranged her face permenantly.

Joe Mixon will be forgiven in the court of public of opinion.
There are people who will never forgive this kid, no matter the apology tour he goes on.

This kid would have been better off driving home drunk and killing someone long term.

That's the point he's making.
Who was hurt by the chant? Every kid with hope in their heart that things are changing for them - that maybe they'll be accepted for who they are as a person and not rejected because of the color of their skin. That they'll have the same chance for a good job and salary as the white kids singing and clapping on the bus. My heart hurts for those African American kids who, while they can be proud of what happened at Selma, are simultaneously reminded that a very short time ago they could be beaten with impunity - that very few people in that part of the country cared if they were - that they could be screamed at and spit on for simply walking over a bridge.

This kid will not have a felony on his record. He will not go to jail. He does not have to live with the knowledge that he killed a human being. Eventually he will be, at most, a postscript in history. Will he accept that what he did was inexcusable and reprehensible? Will it change the way he views others? If it does, then this undoubtedly very hard lesson will make him a better person. That's a good thing. If he finds a way to blame others and it doesn't change his heart, then he has earned whatever fallout comes from this throughout his life. If I were his parent, I would see my job as making him understand why what he did was so wrong, and how his thinking needs to change. I would ask him, if he understands why what he did was wrong, to make a public apology to students of color at the University.

PhiAlpha I whole heartily believe your story and I didn't mean to come
Off as attacking the house. As a student now at Ou I have friends in SAE and I know they are not the types for this. As well as even more friends in the OSU house and again they wouldn't be caught dead saying it. But the reality is from the reddit page you can tell this is not a song only to the Ou chapter. I was more upset somebody had to bring in mixon and hill in something unrelated to them. I looked at pledging SAE so I know this isn't that they are all bad people or a song taught to every member but more the sins of a few.

Again, can't speak for other chapters, but even a few other groups singing it is not a majority or even most of the national fraternity.

It's funny that other fraternities use the term 'basement song' because I think we were one of the few houses that actually had a basement and that was absolutely the only place we ever sang them.

This was at the old DU house just north of the Kappa house; there is now new construction there for a Kappa annex.

Generally we just called them "dirty" songs or something to that effect.

On another note, as I mentioned earlier, our fraternity cook for the last 20 years is black and ironically will not have a job because of this. Some of the OU SAE alumni have created a gofundme account to basically allow those of us that aren't directly involved in the fraternity accounting group, to help give him a severance. If anyone here knows Howard, are alumni of OU SAE, or just would like to help a great person out, please consider contributing a few dollars to this fund. He's a hell of a guy that we all love and it makes it even more ridiculous that those idiots (who he feeds every day, every week of the school year) chanted that.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/howard

I guess now we've actually created two:
http://www.gofundme.com/oahx20

Who was hurt by the chant? Every kid with hope in their heart that things are changing for them - that maybe they'll be accepted for who they are as a person and not rejected because of the color of their skin. That they'll have the same chance for a good job and salary as the white kids singing and clapping on the bus. My heart hurts for those African American kids who, while they can be proud of what happened at Selma, are simultaneously reminded that a very short time ago they could be beaten with impunity - that very few people in that part of the country cared if they were - that they could be screamed at and spit on for simply walking over a bridge.

This kid will not have a felony on his record. He will not go to jail. He does not have to live with the knowledge that he killed a human being. Eventually he will be, at most, a postscript in history. Will he accept that what he did was inexcusable and reprehensible? Will it change the way he views others? If it does, then this undoubtedly very hard lesson will make him a better person. That's a good thing. If he finds a way to blame others and it doesn't change his heart, then he has earned whatever fallout comes from this throughout his life. If I were his parent, I would see my job as making him understand why what he did was so wrong, and how his thinking needs to change. I would ask him, if he understands why what he did was wrong, to make a public apology to students of color at the University.

Actually Betts those kids you are talking about will not be hurt now. That chapter is now closed and those students will probably transfer schools. Every single fraternity in the nation at chapter tonight will probably talk about this and remind their members that a chapter was just taken down by a 7 second video in less then 24 hours.

That kid may not have the guilt of killing someone but he now has a scarlet A he's going to have to walk around his entire life. Not to mention the fact that today he's been receiving death threats. That's not to say he's the victim he's not, he brought this on himself but does the punishment fit the crime? As soon as his name is posted online he's done. He may be a postscript in history but anytime he tries to get a job this will pop up with his name on it. No one is going to touch him.

Those kids your heart hurts for are going to be fine. This chapter is gone and every other chapter in the nation just got put on notice. This behavior will change or go underground.

I do agree with you though about him apologizing. However he needs to apologize to everyone not people of color. If we strive for a post racial society then there isn't color, there's just people. So he needs to apologize to people and the people he's apologizing to are the ones who were offended by his actions. Then he should probably go do volunteer work in the inner city.

It's just my opinion. You could very well be correct. I've been impressed how quickly both ou and SAE acted in this matter.

Ya know, the sad thing about this is....people act like fraternity members are the only people inclined to say such a word.

Unfortunately, the word is part of the English language, has its place in history and is apparently timeless because again and again, history repeats itself.

I just read on Twitter that a player has decommitted from OU, citing personal reasons. Would he still have taken the same course of action if this video had not surfaced?

I think the real problem here is that there is still a divide in America and the old generation of thinking has been passed on. It is an old way of thinking by both sides. Racism is like a compass--it can go any which way, all that matters is where you point.

The other issue with this is certain "word" usage..obviously we all know the word here and without me even mentioning it, it still popped into your head and if you've thought it, you've said it, whether it was in secrecy or out loud for everyone to hear. It's something that CAN NOT be erased...which is unfortunate...because the word is used in praise by the very race that curses it.

As much as I hate OU in sports, I'm really disappointed to see OU in the limelight because of some stupid kids that have no excuse for what came out of their mouths. I don't usually get so wrapped up in things but it puts a bad taste in my mouth and the sad thing is, if it didnt happen at OU it would have happened at some other college because obviously this is a nationwide issue.

If I were his parent, I would see my job as making him understand why what he did was so wrong, and how his thinking needs to change. I would ask him, if he understands why what he did was wrong, to make a public apology to students of color at the University.

These prejudices were learned somewhere. And unfortunately, a lot of times, it comes from their parents.

Waka Flocka has canceled his concert at OU.

Who was hurt by the chant? Every kid with hope in their heart that things are changing for them - that maybe they'll be accepted for who they are as a person and not rejected because of the color of their skin.Personally, I long ago lost my hopes that racism in this nation was on its way out. In the late Fifties, I was a semi-regular at a little BBQ joint called "Tony's" located just a block or so west of the old Moon Junior High, run by a pair of black men named Tony and Leah Potts. It was a truly color-blind place; they served only BBQ and camp coffee, and had whole layers of regular customers, of every skin color. We went to enjoy ourselves with friends, and made new friends in the process. Most of the time Tony had a Miles Davis record playing on his hi-fi, but one evening a quartet from OCU showed up to try out their act. It was one of only two times I ever heard Mason Williams in person -- the other time was a week or so later when I invited the quartet to come to my home to record an audition tape for the Oklahoman's record reviewer, John Acord, to take to Mercury in NYC (they rejected it, BTW).

I had learned in Korea that it was the color of a person's character that mattered, not that of his skin.

So when I moved back to OKC in 1962 from a brief encounter with southern California, I deliberately chose to buy a house near NE 44 and Everest so that my three young sons could grow up in an integrated neighborhood. That was a hope that failed.

As blacks moved into the area, white families -- especially those with children -- moved out. By the time my older boys were in the 3rd and 4th grades, they were the only white kids left in Longfellow school. And they were subject to even more violent racist actions than I had ever expected. I was personally threatened, in my own front yard, by a pre-schooler wielding a pitchfork almost as big as he was. My oldest son had his arm broken by a slightly older boy who lived across the street. And when I called police, I found no support. "If you don't like it," the officers told me, "just move away."

The consequence is that now all three of my sons, through bitter experience, have become polarized about such things -- and I see that polarization reflected throughout our nation. Racist leaders -- of all colors -- trumpet the differences and demand retribution. As Orwell noted, some are more equal than others.

I'm sure that this comment will cause me to be labelled as racist by some -- but we have to face the fact that almost nobody, these days, cares about true equality, or searching for the person hidden beneath the outward appearances.

Sure, we have bad cops, and racial profiling exists. Almost 60 years ago when I was following the police beat, the OCPD was totally segregated -- and the black community feared the black officers far more than they did the white ones! Police work, unfortunately, has long appealed to bullies as an easy way to practice their arts with public approval. I've known many good cops; the bad ones are a distinct minority -- but they exist, and come in all colors. That's no reason for professional racists to stir things up.

But as I said, my hopes for an end to racism died long ago -- on the day that I left the northeast quadrant and followed the rest of the white flight. Nothing seems likely to resusicate them...

These guys disgraced nobody but themselves; this childlike behavior brought the whole group down. It's a shame that anyone would participate in this type of activity--it's obvious that this was rehearsed by the ones who participated.

Salute OU President Boren who took swift action along with SAE's national body which governs this fraternity to condemn this type of activity.

On another note, as I mentioned earlier, our fraternity cook for the last 20 years is black and ironically will not have a job because of this. Some of the OU SAE alumni have created a gofundme account to basically allow those of us that aren't directly involved in the fraternity accounting group, to help give him a severance. If anyone here knows Howard, are alumni of OU SAE, or just would like to help a great person out, please consider contributing a few dollars to this fund. He's a hell of a guy that we all love and it makes it even more ridiculous that those idiots (who he feeds every day, every week of the school year) chanted that.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/howard

I guess now we've actually created two:
http://www.gofundme.com/oahx20

I don't know the man but I donated because I hate to see good people get hurt by the ignorance of others.

Ya know, the sad thing about this is....people act like fraternity members are the only people inclined to say such a word.

Unfortunately, the word is part of the English language, has its place in history and is apparently timeless because again and again, history repeats itself.

I just read on Twitter that a player has decommitted from OU, citing personal reasons. Would he still have taken the same course of action if this video had not surfaced?

I think the real problem here is that there is still a divide in America and the old generation of thinking has been passed on. It is an old way of thinking by both sides. Racism is like a compass--it can go any which way, all that matters is where you point.

The other issue with this is certain "word" usage..obviously we all know the word here and without me even mentioning it, it still popped into your head and if you've thought it, you've said it, whether it was in secrecy or out loud for everyone to hear. It's something that CAN NOT be erased...which is unfortunate...because the word is used in praise by the very race that curses it.

As much as I hate OU in sports, I'm really disappointed to see OU in the limelight because of some stupid kids that have no excuse for what came out of their mouths. I don't usually get so wrapped up in things but it puts a bad taste in my mouth and the sad thing is, if it didnt happen at OU it would have happened at some other college because obviously this is a nationwide issue.
So you are an admitted OU hater. Is that hate better or worse than any other type of hate? So, you are as biased as those you are condemming, just aimed at a different thing.

But as I said, my hopes for an end to racism died long ago -- on the day that I left the northeast quadrant and followed the rest of the white flight. Nothing seems likely to resusicate them...

As Oprah is fond of saying, "Can't wait for all the old racists to hurry up and die."

But here you have young college kids with absolutely no connection to any of the crap from the old days, and they still choose to perpetuate it.

It also serves to highlight the fatal flaws in the oft-repeated argument: "Hey we passed equality laws, the playing field is now level. I don't want to hear anything more about racism."

I won't speak for everyone else, but I'm not going to let these imbeciles define me, this state, or the University of Oklahoma.
They are dumb, young, and immature. We say this about nearly all college kids. They just happened to chant this song and it was posted on the Internet, it was a matter of minutes before something like that can start a fire. Not excusing the language they used, but I'm one of those who thinks words are just words, and yes, words can hurt, but things tend to be blown out of proportion too often anymore.

Naturally, the mainstream media has taken hold and is using it to continue the race baiting that is alive and well in this country, sadly.
I couldn't ask President Boren to handle this situation anymore beautifully than he did, with such quick decision that truly showcases his leadership.
OU will get hit for now, ignorant people will hold onto this and use it as some type of ammunition against not only the Sooners, but this state as well. Let them, because they are the ignorant ones. Every state has racists, every state has these dumb fraternities and with their equally dumb chants.

As for the students themselves, they need to be punished, not just the fraternity, and I imagine President Boren will be looking to exercise that to some extent.
As for the comments about the flag... Are we still needing explanation and defense of it? People can say it's a symbol of racism, but it really isn't. Especially in 2015, it's become the symbol of southern pride, not slavery or racism. I know people who own the rebel flag and aren't racist at all, they just evoke pride in being southern.

Waka Flocka has canceled his concert at OU.

Now see, that is just stupid. Instead of facing the adversity, you cancel your revenue stream? I'd go in there if I were Waka, preach a message, and then go about your normal business. But no, you're going to punish your fans by cancelling a concert that was going to be enjoyed by your actual fans who say the same word you say regardless of their skin color. Makes no sense. He might as well cancel every concert on his tour list because there's probably bigots in those places too.

^
I'm not sure you understand this. He was planning on holding it at the SAE house, which is now no more. Its logistics.

And your right, there are bigots everywhere he will perform, but as of now there are bigots here who joked about lynching n****** from trees and it was caught on film. OK just needs to take this hit and learn from it right now.

^
I'm not sure you understand this. He was planning on holding it at the SAE house, which is now no more. Its logistics.

And your right, there are bigots everywhere he will perform, but as of now there are bigots here who joked about lynching n****** from trees and it was caught on film. OK just needs to take this hit and learn from it right now.

I doubt it was going to be at the house, alcohol can only be consumed their on game days. It was more likely an off campus date party and if that's the case, I don't blame him.

SAE's HQ is mandating that by March 9th, pledging be ended for good. Easier said than done, I think, but Sig Ep has done okay with Balanced Man... so why not?

I'm confused. SAE isn't the frat commonly referred to as "Sig Ep" is it?

^
I'm not sure you understand this. He was planning on holding it at the SAE house, which is now no more. Its logistics.

And your right, there are bigots everywhere he will perform, but as of now there are bigots here who joked about lynching n****** from trees and it was caught on film. OK just needs to take this hit and learn from it right now.

I rest my case then.

But he could still have his manager find a spot somewhere in Norman.....surely.

Maybe come back to OKC...?

As Oprah is fond of saying, "Can't wait for all the old racists to hurry up and die."The problem that I see is that the extreme polarization we experience today is simply creating new racists. The video clip bears evidence to that, but where are the chants for true brotherhood and equality -- from either side of the obvious and apparently increasing racial divide.

A hundred years ago it was the Irish on the East Coast who were reviled, and the Chinese on the West Coast. What group will it be a hundred years hence?

I do see many bi-racial couples, which in the Fifties was almost unheard of, so the situation is improving. I think it could be speeded, though, if the most vociferous "leaders" of all groups would simply queit down for a while and let we individual humans sort it out...

The consequence is that now all three of my sons, through bitter experience, have become polarized about such things -- and I see that polarization reflected throughout our nation. Racist leaders -- of all colors -- trumpet the differences and demand retribution. As Orwell noted, some are more equal than others.

I'm sure that this comment will cause me to be labelled as racist by some -- but we have to face the fact that almost nobody, these days, cares about true equality, or searching for the person hidden beneath the outward appearances.

Sure, we have bad cops, and racial profiling exists. Almost 60 years ago when I was following the police beat, the OCPD was totally segregated -- and the black community feared the black officers far more than they did the white ones! Police work, unfortunately, has long appealed to bullies as an easy way to practice their arts with public approval. I've known many good cops; the bad ones are a distinct minority -- but they exist, and come in all colors. That's no reason for professional racists to stir things up.

But as I said, my hopes for an end to racism died long ago -- on the day that I left the northeast quadrant and followed the rest of the white flight. Nothing seems likely to resusicate them...

Jim Kyle you are true to your heart, you have a very keen observation about what occurred; you have your experiences in which to draw your conclusions. Racism & bigotry (not limited to any one race) are like a cancer or disease which you will never eradicate; some you may keep in a dormant state.

Officer Hart (Ben Hart's father) lived behind us across the alley between 6th & 7th/Stonewall & Kelly. This guy lived on the edge of life as an officer, he slept in the living room of their home in a chair with his gun next to him. He was hated by some whites & blacks; especially in the Deep Deuce area. Just imagine what type of life Officer Hart had to endure as he enforced the law. His son, Dr. Ben Hart went on to play for the OU Sooners & the NFL New Orleans Saints. Ben was able to redeem himself as he went back to reclaim his doctorate from OU which was stripped because of controversy.

"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die."--Ted Kennedy

There's been confederate flags hanging in that house for decades. It just looks worse right now because of what happened at ou. SAEs chapter president last year is an African American. Thats not to say it's not in poor taste because it is but its only news because of ou. Confederate flag hanging is pretty stereotypical fraternity behavior and southern behavior in general. I called the house and the have taken it down. A lot of this is the o'colly trying to get clicks.

A rationalization that I tend to dismiss for the following reasons. Ever see a confederate rag displayed at a predominately black fraternity? Have you ever seen same rag displayed by a southern AA family or individual? To paint this as a southern thing or a fraternity thing is disingenuous.

I was a DU at OU from '78 to '82 and I know we didn't have any racial lines, but the songs were beyond vulgar.

We did, however, have an elderly housemother from Alabama who only referred to African Americans by the n-word. I hated it and everyone else did too, but she still did it openly and frequently.

The irony is that she was an expert on etiquette and I still remember and carry many of her lessons we were forced to endure.

Just shows how messed up the Southern culture was back in her day where people went to extreme measures to be 'proper', then had such contempt and hatred for people of color.

Ha, I actually rushed & pledged to DU while I was at OU in 2008. I ended up quitting half way through, due to a variety of reasons. None of which were that I actually had a problem with DU, more so just with the greek system in general. I met a lot of cool people, and I met a lot of douchebags. DU was for sure the most down to earth frat IMO, and I would've had no problem staying with them but the whole greek think just wasn't for me.

I do see many bi-racial couples, which in the Fifties was almost unheard of, so the situation is improving.

Until a federal law was passed in 1964, mixed racial marriages were *outlawed* in many states; including Oklahoma.

Let that sink in for a minute.

In other words, when my family moved to Oklahoma in 1963, inter-racial marriages were still strictly against the law; *and* the state had to be forced by the feds to change.

Unbelievable.

was it already posted that we've already had a de-commit to OU football possibly related to this?

Jim is so right. So many things have created a new generation of racists. A lot of it was being called "racist" for things that weren't racist at all and getting fed up with the professional race baiters. Today, we live with the consequences of not only racism, but with the war over racism, whether it is or not.

The chant on the bus was despicable, hard to fathom, until I think about what Jim said. I truly think great progress was being made in this country until many high-profile happenings that set race relations back a few years. There's simply no excuse for that chant, there is also no excuse for "musicians" to make millions of dollars chanting, rapping, racist "music." It all culminates with increased polarization and double-standards.

Who can possibly defend such chanting on that bus?
Who can possibly defend racist music on the radio? Blacks using the 'N' word without shame and understanding that if the word is to be history, it has to stop being used like an everyday greeting.

This incident says a lot about our society. None of it for the better.

I won't speak for everyone else, but I'm not going to let these imbeciles define me, this state, or the University of Oklahoma.
They are dumb, young, and immature. We say this about nearly all college kids. They just happened to chant this song and it was posted on the Internet, it was a matter of minutes before something like that can start a fire. Not excusing the language they used, but I'm one of those who thinks words are just words, and yes, words can hurt, but things tend to be blown out of proportion too often anymore.

Naturally, the mainstream media has taken hold and is using it to continue the race baiting that is alive and well in this country, sadly.
I couldn't ask President Boren to handle this situation anymore beautifully than he did, with such quick decision that truly showcases his leadership.
OU will get hit for now, ignorant people will hold onto this and use it as some type of ammunition against not only the Sooners, but this state as well. Let them, because they are the ignorant ones. Every state has racists, every state has these dumb fraternities and with their equally dumb chants.

As for the students themselves, they need to be punished, not just the fraternity, and I imagine President Boren will be looking to exercise that to some extent.
As for the comments about the flag... Are we still needing explanation and defense of it? People can say it's a symbol of racism, but it really isn't. Especially in 2015, it's become the symbol of southern pride, not slavery or racism. I know people who own the rebel flag and aren't racist at all, they just evoke pride in being southern.

If what you are saying is factual, why is it I never see southern AA 's showing their southern pride as such? B.S. This rag symbolizes armed insurrection against the established lawful government.

Watched the press conference with David Boren live this morning. Really proud of OU's leadership right now. He was refreshingly honest about the state of Greek Life, how this is more than just a PR blunder and what OU plans on doing differently in the future. This is how you achieve meaningful change.

Also, it sounds like the school will try and expel some of these students.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fip8gdX4BZQ&feature=youtu.be&a

David Boren, while not perfect, is a full-on Stud Boy.

The entire state of Oklahoma is lucky to have him.

was it already posted that we've already had a de-commit to OU football possibly related to this?

Don't believe it has:

Publisher of Sooners fan magazine claims four-star North Mesquite OL Jean Delance decommitted from Oklahoma because of frat incident | Dallas Morning News (http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/four-star-north-mesquite-ol-jean-delance-decommits-from-oklahoma.html/)

Until a federal law was passed in 1964, mixed racial marriages were *outlawed* in many states; including Oklahoma.

Let that sink in for a minute.

In other words, when my family moved to Oklahoma in 1963, inter-racial marriages were still strictly against the law; *and* the state had to be forced by the feds to change.

Unbelievable.

Not to mention Norman's (and other's) well-known history of being a Sundown Town into the era you mentioned.

If what you are saying is factual, why is it I never see southern AA 's showing their southern pride as such? B.S. This rag symbolizes armed insurrection against the established lawful government.

You're trying to validate your opinion on the rebel flag (ol' Dixie flag, Confederate flag, etc.) because you haven't seen a few groups of people fly it? That is a far open ended example to use on almost anything. In fact, let me try:

Ford Escapes are for white people because I've never seen a black person driving one. Ergo, it must be a symbol of racism or white supremacy.

Either way, your point is moot:

This man walks around his town dressed in traditional Confederate garb carrying the rebel flag. He's been photographed and video taped for years (just before the 2:00 mark he's states "I'm Southern above all else"):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8hPo6mYnks

In all honesty the flag symbolizes many things, just as the U.S. flag does, or ANY flag for that matter.
The U.S. flag, or as you put, "the established lawful government" of the U.S.'s flag, may be a symbol of empire and conquest, or death from above in many Middle Eastern Countries.
It's also seen as a symbol of freedom and promise to other countries.

You clearly claim a very negative view on it, which is fine, that's your right and I won't argue that. But, you're trying to instigate something on a subject that would seem you aren't fully aware of or understanding of, and are using your emotions to try and badmouth it and the people, racist or not, along with it.

Regardless, the subject of all of this is dumb college kids with an extremely archaic and silly chant that got out of hand.
Everyone is falling into the media's play on race and it's really just being blown out of proportion. Racism, sadly, is everywhere and is practiced, not by everyone, but certainly by every race across the world, that's the ugly truth. Not to downplay this, but President Boren took swift action and justice is being served, rightfully so.
That's the core behind all of this, not some flag that these imbeciles hung up on their walls. Which, I'm also sure they had a U.S. flag and State of Oklahoma flag hanging somewhere in that building, too, what then?

In case you were wondering...

I'm the one person from Oklahoma most of my friends and colleagues know here in California.

And this morning, many are contacting me asking what the H is going on back there.


So, there goes a big bunch of the image I've been building up about how OKC is a boomtown and an increasingly progressive place.

Unfortunately, perception = reality.

Don't believe it has:

Publisher of Sooners fan magazine claims four-star North Mesquite OL Jean Delance decommitted from Oklahoma because of frat incident | Dallas Morning News (http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/four-star-north-mesquite-ol-jean-delance-decommits-from-oklahoma.html/)

The guy has almost decommited a bunch of times in the last few weeks

In case you were wondering...

I'm the one person from Oklahoma most of my friends and colleagues know here in California.

And this morning, many are contacting me asking what the H is going on back there.


So, there goes a big bunch of the image I've been building up about how OKC is a boomtown and an increasingly progressive place.

Unfortunately perception = reality.

The damage this has done is almost unrepairable. Every member of that frat should be kicked out of OU, I don't care if they were on that bus or not. Every single one of them knew about that chant & never did anything about stopping it. Every single one needs to be out of there, and that is the only thing that can help repair OU's image.

Regardless, the subject of all of this is dumb college kids with an extremely archaic and silly chant that got out of hand.
Everyone is falling into the media's play on race and it's really just being blown out of proportion.

Silly chant?

Rich, entitled white fraternity kids gleefully singing about hanging black people from trees is not a "silly chant." I don't even think a Hollywood writer would be able to come up with a more cartoonish, exaggerated display of racism if they tried. And I can tell you the football and basketball recruits now reconsidering their commits to OU, the alumni that are thinking about withholding financial support, or the millions of people now harshly judging fraternity members, OU, and the entire state of Oklahoma do not think it is a silly chant.

Most people do not need any further media analysis to decide what they can clearly see on 20 seconds worth of video. You're opinion is ridiculous; stop blaming everyone else except the people who decided to do this.

You're trying to validate your opinion on the rebel flag (ol' Dixie flag, Confederate flag, etc.) because you haven't seen a few groups of people fly it? That is a far open ended example to use on almost anything. In fact, let me try:

Ford Escapes are for white people because I've never seen a black person driving one. Ergo, it must be a symbol of racism or white supremacy.

Either way, your point is moot:

This man walks around his town dressed in traditional Confederate garb carrying the rebel flag. He's been photographed and video taped for years (just before the 2:00 mark he's states "I'm Southern above all else"):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8hPo6mYnks

In all honesty the flag symbolizes many things, just as the U.S. flag does, or ANY flag for that matter.
The U.S. flag, or as you put, "the established lawful government" of the U.S.'s flag, may be a symbol of empire and conquest, or death from above in many Middle Eastern Countries.
It's also seen as a symbol of freedom and promise to other countries.

You clearly claim a very negative view on it, which is fine, that's your right and I won't argue that. But, you're trying to instigate something on a subject that would seem you aren't fully aware of or understanding of, and are using your emotions to try and badmouth it and the people, racist or not, along with it.

Regardless, the subject of all of this is dumb college kids with an extremely archaic and silly chant that got out of hand.
Everyone is falling into the media's play on race and it's really just being blown out of proportion. Racism, sadly, is everywhere and is practiced, not by everyone, but certainly by every race across the world, that's the ugly truth. Not to downplay this, but President Boren took swift action and justice is being served, rightfully so.
That's the core behind all of this, not some flag that these imbeciles hung up on their walls. Which, I'm also sure they had a U.S. flag and State of Oklahoma flag hanging somewhere in that building, too, what then?
You are all over the map here. The issue I addressed was the confederate flag. I addressed it as you are the one who brought it up. You brought it up a southern pride thing. I still say B.S.. We are not discussing autos, the US flag, the Oklahoma flag, or an old man on a You tube clip. When I see a like number of black southern families or individuals displaying same, then yeah I will agree with you. Right now all I see or observe is a disproportionate amount of the waving of the stars and bars being done by white people. Not all of the flag wavers are racist, but if you are a racist and want to fly a flag then this is the one that is chosen.

SAE's HQ is mandating that by March 9th, pledging be ended for good. Easier said than done, I think, but Sig Ep has done okay with Balanced Man... so why not?

Yes, pledgeship was banned last year. While I believe the intention was good and that change needed to happen, I think it will have a negative effect on SAE and already did at OU. While some chapters undoubtedly abused pledgeship as an opportunity to look down on younger students looking to be initiated into the fraternity, by eliminating the pledging process, SAE removed our ability to screen freshmen that we believed would be a long term risk to the fraternity. The pledgeship process was (and for fraternities that use it, still is) a great screening tool in which you get 6 months to learn as much as you can about the students that you signed through recruitment. It's very difficult to get enough time around these kids over the summer to get a good enough feel for who they really are, meeting them in their hometowns for a few nights is no substitute to seeing how they act on campus over time. After people are initiated, which they are immediately now, they are much more difficult to remove from the fraternity.

It has come to my attention that the bus in question was full of freshmen. Would being able to eliminate some of them through pledgeship have helped, who knows, but this crap didn't happen when we had that option so it may not be a coincidence. People like that are the kind of crap we watched for to prevent incidents like this from happening.

Yes, pledgeship was banned last year. While I believe the intention was good and that change needed to happen, I think it will have a negative effect on SAE and already did at OU. While some chapters undoubtedly abused pledgeship as an opportunity to look down on younger students looking to be initiated into the fraternity, by eliminating the pledging process, SAE removed our ability to screen freshmen that we believed would be a long term risk to the fraternity. The pledgeship process was (and for fraternities that use it, still is) a great screening tool in which you get 6 months to learn as much as you can about the students that you signed through recruitment. It's very difficult to get enough time around these kids over the summer to get a good enough feel for who they really are, meeting them in their hometowns for a few nights is no substitute to seeing how they act on campus over time. After people are initiated, which they are immediately now, they are much more difficult to remove from the fraternity.

It has come to my attention that the bus in question was full of freshmen. Would being able to eliminate some of them through pledgeship have helped, who knows, but this crap didn't happen when we had that option so it may not be a coincidence. People like that are the kind of crap we watched for to prevent incidents like this from happening.

I'm strongly against eliminating pledging. Who knows how many of these douchecanoes would have been there had your members had a semester to get to know them before inviting them to be part of the fraternity. I know that y'all will have no trouble finding renters (I may even know someone who needs to rent) for the time the chapter is shut down. We just reinstalled our OU chapter after having it go dormant for a few years. We've had a number of high quality pledge classes. If we can pull it off, SAE can for sure.