I think the zoo could have made it on to this MAPS if they had submitted everything on time. I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember it being mentioned in the MAPS thread that they missed deadlines and as a result were not under real consideration. If I am wrong someone, please correct me.

That's pretty accurate. The pitch for the Producers Coop site came very late and I'm not even sure it was ever fully fleshed out. I believe it was the product of a development group trying to get an anchor for a large project on that site.

But it's also true the zoo was involved in a pitch for MAPS 4 money; not sure the submitting team had their act together.

very interesting to see all of the scrutiny with the OKC Zoo when issues like this and WORSE are dismissed when it comes to the State Fair board. Both have dedicated funding sources yet the State Fair is allowed to show up at EVERY MAPS initiative for pork projects. State Fair board decided to remove OKC Fairground icons without consent from the public, with no replacement or master plan yet people are up in arms over the Zoo missing a construction estimate.

Im not saying we shouldn't be concerned with the miss from the Zoo, but my recollection is they have run a fine organization, haven't been showing up begging for money, and this is their 1 miss and they appear to be owning up to it and making the best decision for the city. None of this is true for the State Fair but many on here and throughout the OKC landscape dismiss any question about the Fair.

I think the OKC public should have transparency on every city department, trust, and expenditure. Yet it is the State Fair and not the OKC Zoo that is the least transparent arm of city govt funding even moreso than the Economic Development Agency (and that's saying something. ..) I wonder why?

The conduct and transparency issues related to the state fair board is brought up and discussed here every September and every time anything is done at or proposed for the state fairgrounds. Not that it is unwarranted, but it's a pretty consistent and ongoing topic in the State Fair thread.

I don't recall too much criticism of Zoo operations before this.

Anyone who feels compelled to question the Zoo Trust’s transparency should probably first commit to reading its 1975 Declaration of Trust (https://assets.speakcdn.com/assets/2294/zoo_trust_indenture.pdf) (which in part explains the reasoning behind its creation) the trust’s bylaws (https://assets.speakcdn.com/assets/2294/zoo_trust_bylaws.pdf) (which addresses how it is to be run) plus the January meeting agenda (https://assets.speakcdn.com/assets/2294/1825_oklahoma_city_zoological_trust_meeting_agenda .pdf), which includes considerable detail on the matter being discussed upthread.

All of this is published online and linked through the zoo’s website (https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust-agendas-minutes).

As far as City trusts go the zoo’s is generally held in very high regard, as is Dwight Lawson. It’s fair - check that, DESIRABLE - to ask reasonable questions anytime a public effort appears to not line up with internal or external expectations, but some of the baseless slander upthread is unconscionable.

yes, my point Urban. Zoo is well run and quite transparent. One mistake shouldn't degrade what is a well run city investment. They can start over with a new, better plan and learn from the constructive criticism, which is what I expect from them. ..

I want to apologize if it seemed I was attacking Dwight Lawson.

I'm just really frustrated by the way City projects are bid, managed, and reported. I believe this is one in a long line of big misses and I've also believed for over a decade we are not learning and improving.

All this is magnified in highly volatile construction and material markets.


IMO this is an example of a much bigger problem which is why I had a bit of a strong reaction. It comes on the heels of several other big city projects being delayed and/or drastically reduced, as well as many more that pre-dated the pandemic. Using that as a deflection is not helpful, especially since almost five years have passed. Things have changed, but none of these problems can be a surprise at this point.

It may be time to talk to the mayor and/or a couple of council members because having watched all this very closely for over a decade, I believe a better reporting system and a post-project review would go a long way towards correcting these types of issues. If they are doing those things, they have not been sharing them with the public.

The Zoo having its own funding source (1/8 cent penny sales tax) may be why the city isn't excited about helping the Zoo to fund a downtown aquarium. You know if OKC is going to build an Aquarium, they want to have something unique, better than the Jenks Aquarium and more comparable to Atlanta or Dallas. Aware that Atlanta and Dallas are much larger markets; however it shouldn't be a deterrent to OKC aspiring to move up to the next level.

This is more aligned with projects like our proposed $1 billion downtown arena. If we're going to be an NBA city, we'll need the funds to construct or maintain a comparable
NBA arena. Too bad we didn't get it right the first time (. . . improvements to Paycom Center).

What are our options on building a World Class Aquarium--partnership which includes the Zoo, Tribes and our City?

Do will build it downtown, adjacent or on the new $1 billion arena site or on the land near the FAM museum and Okana Water Resort.

What are our options on building a World Class Aquarium--partnership which includes the Zoo, Tribes and our City?

Do will build it downtown, adjacent or on the new $1 billion arena site or on the land near the FAM museum and Okana Water Resort.

I think FAM. Next to the arena will be extremely valuable real estate. If it is next to Okana and FAM, I can easily see "stay and play" packages that would encourage out of town visitors to see the aquarium or FAM when they are at Okana. Business conferences that stay downtown/Bricktown could also easily drop into an aquarium for an evening activity. All of these businesses could work together and develop some form of a OKC Passport where you pick three activities for a bundled price. (Zoo, SMO, Cowboy Heritage Museum, FAM, Proposed Aquarium, OKC MOA, etc)

Essentially, do what Grapevine, Texas does with the Seal Life Aquarium, Legoland, Meow Wolf, all within 5 minutes of Great Wolf Lodge and the Gaylord Texan.

It would be an absolute home run at FAM. Would also be a massive win for OKC.

I think FAM. Next to the arena will be extremely valuable real estate. If it is next to Okana and FAM, I can easily see "stay and play" packages that would encourage out of town visitors to see the aquarium or FAM when they are at Okana. Business conferences that stay downtown/Bricktown could also easily drop into an aquarium for an evening activity. All of these businesses could work together and develop some form of a OKC Passport where you pick three activities for a bundled price. (Zoo, SMO, Cowboy Heritage Museum, FAM, Proposed Aquarium, OKC MOA, etc)

Essentially, do what Grapevine, Texas does with the Seal Life Aquarium, Legoland, Meow Wolf, all within 5 minutes of Great Wolf Lodge and the Gaylord Texan.

OKANA'S 404 room resort would be home to the Aquarium (funded by Zoo, Tribe and City). Great idea with the 3 activity passport bundled price. How could we tie this in with the WCWS and/or Remington Park Racino.

I have started to make a list of all the City projects that have gone very far over budget and well beyond stated timelines.

It's already a long list and predates the universal 'pandemic' and 'inflation' catch-all excuses.

The city frequently badly misses on projects and either makes huge value engineering compromises or moves money budgeted for other things. They also miss -- badly -- timelines, often by years.


I've been talking about this for at least 15 years. There needs to be reports against original budgets and timelines. They never do that and thus never learn. And we keep making the same mistakes over and over.

And these aren't little things; they are huge misses.


One current example: Union Station. Just asked David Todd about this a week ago and learned it's the same song: don't have enough money, value engineering, delays and more delays that just cost more money, will end up with a small fraction of what was proposed.

Also now happening with the Palomar MAPS 4 project (also delayed and over budget), and they can only build about 2/3rds of the Hefner Clubhouse, on and on.



There is one common factor... they are CITY projects. The city staff is behind the times in terms of staff, management, and expectations of development projects top to bottom. Doesn't matter if it is a big or small project.