View Full Version : The new 4K (UHD) TV's - Buy now or wait?



JohnH_in_OKC
02-23-2015, 03:23 AM
Here is an excellent article on whether it is time to buy a new 4K (UHD) TV from Wired Magazine (http://www.wired.com/):
(Remember broadcast stations and cable companies have not yet started utilizing this new standard so 4K TV sets will be changing to accommodate whatever the NAB and NCTA engineers decide.)

4K TVs Are Forked. You Should Wait Before You Buy One (http://www.wired.com/2015/01/everybodys-going-buy-4k-tv-soon-dont-want-one-just-yet/)

Click here for the original article: 4K TVs Are Forked. You Should Wait Before You Buy One | WIRED (http://www.wired.com/2015/01/everybodys-going-buy-4k-tv-soon-dont-want-one-just-yet/)

BY TIM MOYNIHAN 01.13.15 | 5:30 AM

This is the year buying a 4K TV seems to make a lot more sense.

Everything is falling into place: 4K services are primed to explode, and UltraHD sets will be both plentiful and more affordable. You won’t just see one 4K showpiece in a manufacturer’s lineup, you’ll see tiers of UltraHD sets. They’ll all upscale 1080p content, making it look even better. They’ll have built-in connectivity and streaming apps. They’ll come at every price-point. They’ll range from quantum-dot to OLED to sets that mimic 8K resolution. And you may see more new 4K TVs than HDTVs this year.

Make no mistake: this is not just hype. It is not 3-D. This is the future, and in the coming years, 4K will be as ubiquitous and essential as HD video is now. Everyone from studios and streaming services to the manufacturers are putting their full weight behind the push. This is why the TV industry expects 2015 to be a breakout year for 4K. The Consumer Electronics Association predicts UHD TV shipments will hit 4 million in 2015 and revenues will exceed $5 billion. That’s up from around 800,000 shipments and $2.5 billion in revenues last year— a huge leap forward.

Still, you may want to teeter just a bit longer on the diving board before taking the UltraHD plunge. Give it a few more months, because by this time next year, our picture of the 4K universe will be as clear as the picture on the sets. The content options and the hardware are only going to get better.

And that’s the thing: They’re only going to get better. At the moment, there’s a problem: there are competing approaches and content packages, with different manufacturers offering different ways to get all that amazing video. It’s not like the Betamax/VHS or Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format wars, which were about content delivery systems that worked with any TV. With 4K, the TV is the content delivery system. It’s more like an OS war.

And 4K is forked.

If you jump in now, you’ll need to consider exclusivity deals, bandwidth demands, which big-gun content providers are behind which TVs, and the nuances of each built-in smart platform. Until all the major services—Netflix, Amazon, etc.—run on every 4K set, until there’s a simple plug-and-play 4K device like a streaming box or a console, and until lower bitrates or beefier bandwidth are universal, you’ll be buying into a UHD construction zone. And while the pool of 4K content will greatly expand this year, it doesn’t mean everything you want to watch will be available in UltraHD.

This Is More Than a Resolution Jump

On the surface, the jump to 4K looks a lot like the transition from standard definition to HD. But it’s entirely different for many reasons, not the least of which is this: 4K is the first tectonic TV shift where traditional content delivery is secondary. The 4K revolution, for now, anyway, is all about streaming, not broadcast, or cable, or discs.

With 4K, streaming isn’t just a cable-cutting measure anymore. It’s the primary delivery mechanism, and that could change the entire nature of television—not just how we (binge-)watch it, but how we decide which company’s 4K set to buy. You see, you can’t buy a 4K-capable Roku, Amazon Fire TV, or Apple TV box right now. Yes, you can watch upscaled 1080p content, and that’ll look great. But if you want a true 4K experience—tack-sharp detail and you-are-there realism—you’re largely limited to the 4K services offered by each TV’s built-in smart platform.

So there’s no cheap-n-easy 4K set-top box just yet, but Roku and TCL are planning to bake one into TCL sets—at some point in the not-too-distant future. The industry is “nearing a 4K tipping point, where the amount of content will push consumer demand,” says Chris Larson, VP of sales and marketing for TCL North America. “We plan to have the 4K TCL Roku TV in market by [that] time.”

Meanwhile, Dish Network announced its 4K Joey at CES last week. It’ll require a monthly Dish subscription ($30 to $90 per month) and a Hopper DVR. That’s a much bigger investment than the fee-free 1080p streaming boxes you can get for less than a C-note, and so far Dish won’t dish on what specific 4K content might be available. More 4K streamers are certainly coming, but the major manufacturers are revamping their smart-TV platforms in an attempt to replace those boxes altogether.

Inside the Fork Drawer: OS Wars, Exclusivity, and Blessings

This new wave of smart-TV platforms will diverge in terms of their OS underpinnings. Samsung will use Tizen, LG utilizes WebOS, Panasonic runs Firefox OS, while Sharp and Sony will use proprietary systems alongside Android TV. That could make app development a chore, but the bigger issue is that the content available on each brand of set will be governed by exclusivity deals.

For example, only some UHD sets work with 4K streaming services from Netflix and Amazon; last week, Netflix announced a “Recommended TV” program that will allow certain manufacturers to show its UHD content. M-Go and Comcast have 4K apps exclusive to Samsung’s TVs. Sony’s Video Unlimited 4K service may have the deepest 4K catalog right now, but it requires a compatible TV and a $700 media player.

Codecs remain something of a barrier too. Both Netflix and Amazon use HEVC/H.265, which rapidly is becoming the compression standard. Google backs its own 4K-friendly codec, VP9, which also will be used for UltraHD YouTube videos. Many of this year’s new 4K TVs support both codecs. But even if a 4K set has an HEVC decoder, it may not be compatible with all the services using that codec. That goes back to the certification processes streaming services use to put their stamp of approval on certain TVs.

The longer you wait, the more you are to see these 4K forks disappear. CES 2015 marked the announcement of the UHD Alliance, a consortium of manufacturers, studios, and content providers that aims to standardize the 4K content field. We’re talking DirecTV, Dolby, LG, Netflix, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Technicolor, Walt Disney Studios, Twentieth Century Fox, and Warner Bros. That kind of firepower should help align the tines, although big-name players like Amazon, Google, Hisense, Roku, TCL, and Vizio are missing from the roster.

A platform-agnostic cavalry is on the way. DirectTV and Dish Network have 4K satellite services in the works. 4K Blu-ray discs and players are expected by the end of the year, and Panasonic had a prototype at CES. But until this stuff is available, we have a baked-in platform war—one vastly different from the format wars of yore. Questions of VHS vs Betamax or Blu-ray vs HD-DVD were divorced from the TV sets themselves. No matter which device you chose, it would work with your TV. With 4K, the television set and content-delivery system are one in the same. Make the wrong decision and you may not get the content you want.

From Broadcast to Broadband

Let’s say you find a set compatible with every 4K service available—and it looks like Samsungs are the best bet right now. You’ve still gotta worry about bandwidth. 4K video is beefier than HD video—four times the resolution means a hell of a lot more data—and not all home networks can handle that rushing river reliably.

Netflix recommends 25Mbps download speeds for streaming 4K video, while the service’s 1080p streams require about 3Mbps. If your streaming setup buffers and stutters with the average HD video, 4K will be a struggle. According to Akamai’s most recent State of the Internet report, just 19 percent of U.S. homes had “4K-ready” connection speeds of 15Mbps or greater. According to Ookla’s Net Index, the mean broadband download speed in the US is 32Mbps, but there are major speed variances from ISP to ISP and state to state.

The good news is you may not need to upgrade your service to get smooth 4K streaming. Beamr, a post-encoding video-optimization service, is working with movie studios and streaming providers to chop 4K video bitrates by 40 percent. Beamr claims it can whittle 4K video down to a 9.5Mbps stream, making it easier for networks to handle the load. It works with HEVC-encoded video, and the company demoed its bitrate-shaving work at CES. The technology will be used in a new 4K partnership with M-Go—a service that’s only be available on Samsung’s 4K sets.

Beamr claims its optimization software is smarter than an encoder—it’s applied after a video is encoded using HEVC—as it removes bits where they won’t be missed: Blurred backgrounds, smooth textures, and parts of a scene that don’t need 4K detail. According to CTO Dror Gill, even experts can’t see a difference between the bitrate optimized video and the source files. That’s why Beamr is working with studios to install the optimization software as part of their digital-delivery workflow instead of content aggregators.

“We do not hurt the quality in any way,” says Gill. “If we would start with Amazon and Netflix, they would say, ‘Hey that’s great, it saves us bits.’ Then the studios would say, ‘We don’t want you to do that to our content.’ … We wanted it to be verified by the ‘golden eyes’ of the studio. They can see any change in texture and any change in color.”

Such stream-shrinking could expand the potential audience for 4K. According to the Akamai, the number of American homes that can handle speeds of 10Mbps or greater jumps to 39 percent. That doubles the number of 4K-ready homes, but it’s still just a start.

Welcome to the Era of Amazing 1080p TV Deals

The waiting is the hardest part, but at least you’ll have a 1080p set until the 4K train gains momentum. And guess what? They’ll practically be giving away high-end 1080p sets in the years to come.

At CES 2015, none of the major TV manufacturers highlighted new 1080p sets for the coming year. On the downside, that means things like quantum-dot color enhancement, OLED panels, and impossibly thin sets likely won’t show up in many (if any) 1080p offerings. Manufacturers will save all that cutting-edge stuff for their top models, and all those high-end models will be 4K TVs.

But you should be able to find some excellent deals on last year’s top-tier HDTVs, and some of this year’s HDTVs should offer unprecedented bang for the buck. For example, Roku announced it would be including its streaming features on a slew of new HD sets this year, including new partnerships with Insignia (Best Buy’s house brand) and Haier. TCL debuted 15 new TVs this year, and 12 of them will also have Roku baked in.

If you want to get in on the OLED game, keep an eye on the prices for LG’s 1080p OLED TVs throughout the year. They’re currently priced around $3,500, and they’re bound to dip even further as 4K dominates the showroom. Top-shelf 2014 options such as Samsung’s H8000 series, Sony’s W950B series, Sharp’s Aquos Q+ sets, and Vizio’s M series should be available for cheap prices at large sizes as the year goes on.

Jon27
02-23-2015, 09:09 AM
I have a 4K TV. It has the 4K Amazon and Netflix apps. I don't understand what he means about this. Set top boxes can easily be made to deliver the same thing. The Netflix recommended TV's have nothing to do with exclusive streaming rights. It seems like a marketing trick. Netflix knows people want their product. If they charge TV manufacturers to place a Netflix recommended set seal, the TV makers benefit from people thinking they have to buy that in order to use Netflix. It's just a way for Netflix to make more money. My TV isn't a recommended Netflix set, and the 4K contents looks great. I will say the picture quality difference for regular shows on the 4K TV is much better. Seems the upscaling does help some. I like it personally.

JohnH_in_OKC
02-23-2015, 09:11 AM
If you've read the above article, you may think the "future proof" upgradable Samsung 4K TV's will alleviate you from buyer's remorse, think again. Here's what one poster said in reply to the above article:

jtciti •
One of the big problems for early adopters is that most 4K TVs don't yet accept 4k @ 60fps and 4:4:4: chroma, even with "HDMI 2.0" printed on the box. OEMs have been using slower last gen chips with a software update to get to "HDMI 2.0" (4k @ 30fps or 4:2:0 chroma) while the new, (higher bandwidth) "built to spec" HDMI 2.0 chips are still ramping and can only be found in the highest end sets. When you get true HDMI 2.0 hardware, you can swap the source whenever 4K broadcasting, codecs and streaming gets standardized (IE your set top box, your smart stick, your HTPC etc...), and it won't matter what "smart" guts your TV has.

asdf jtciti
You're one of the very few who actually understands this. Came here, searched for "HDMI," hoping to find someone.

John Nemesh jtciti •
You are correct! Which is why I recommend to my customers that they sell their HARDWARE UPGRADABLE Samsung sets.

hubick jtciti •
This is one of the important limitations I also felt the article missed out on.
The other is HDCP 2.2. If your 4K set doesn't support HDCP 2.2, all indications are that it will refuse to playback UHD Blu-Ray discs when released.

BBatesokc
02-23-2015, 09:29 AM
If you're looking for a 4K TV, this is not a bad deal from Walmart.......


50" for $698

VIZIO P502ui-B1E 50" 4K Ultra HD 120Hz Full-Array LED Smart TV - Walmart.com (http://www.walmart.com/ip/38506042?u1=34225-2015-02-23-11-27-p-198629&oid=223073.1&wmlspartner=RvEiSnI7NyY&sourceid=28198480962846286952&affillinktype=10&veh=aff)

bradh
02-23-2015, 09:43 AM
I'm moving to a new house soon and badly needed to upgrade from my 2007 Samsung 50" DLP. I read all the reviews on CNET and decided on the 55" Samsung HU8550 4K TV. I figure if I lasted that long on that DLP, I won't be upset if this TV isn't perfect in 2 years. It's an incredible TV compared to what I had (not much comparison I know lol)

Jon27
02-23-2015, 09:51 AM
I'm moving to a new house soon and badly needed to upgrade from my 2007 Samsung 50" DLP. I read all the reviews on CNET and decided on the 55" Samsung HU8550 4K TV. I figure if I lasted that long on that DLP, I won't be upset if this TV isn't perfect in 2 years. It's an incredible TV compared to what I had (not much comparison I know lol)

Same situation I was in!! Had a 2007 Samsung DLP and just upgraded to the HU8550.

By the way, the HU8550 is 4K 60Hz on HDMI 2.0 with 4:4:4 chroma, HDCP 2.2, and can show H.265 codec. It's pretty future proof out of the box.

traxx
02-23-2015, 09:54 AM
I wouldn't buy a 4K now if ever. Even if it's 4K, it's still the old LCD technology. The only way I would consider 4K is if it were a 4K OLED TV. Even then, I'd only buy it if it were all that was offered in OLED. Your TV would have to be about 73" or larger to notice much, if any, difference in picture quality from a 1080P. Not to mention that there's very little 4K material out right now. A lot of what you see as 4K today is just upconverted or line doubled.

The only reason 4K is a big deal is because numbers sell. It was the same way with computers before mobile devices got popular. Manufacturers didn't expect consumers to be smart enough to know the difference so they just marketd based on numbers. This number is bigger, so it must be better. Numbers are so much easier to market than talking about bitrate and such. And they still market that way with TVs. More pixels, higher refresh rates. The only problem is, those refresh rates are what give a TV that discombobulating soap opera effect. Almost all movies and TV shows are shot at 24fps. So when TVs refresh faster than that, they have to do something to make up the difference in frame rate so they use a logarithm to interpolate what frame they think would go between the actual film frames.

Plus, so much more goes into picture qaulity than a high pixel count. What about bit rate, color depth and bit depth? Just ask a gamer if a higher pixel count makes their game look more realistic. The answer is no. It's how the designers use light and shadow, how they use color and how artistically they make the scenes you see on screen.

Sure Netflix and the like advertise HD quality and 4K quality, but a picture only has to have a certain amount of pixels to be able to be called HD or 4K. The bitrate you get on streaming services is not even close to HD quality let alone 4K quality. And that's not even taking into consideration what compression is going to do to the picture. You're basically watching YouTube quality video on your TV. Plus why spend the money on all those extra pixels if you're just going to stream anyway. A good mid-priced Vizio will be more than enough for you.

I've been reading Geoffrey Morrison's articles on CNET for several years now. He has a series of articles about TV, HDTV, 4K TV and the different display technologies like plasma, LCD and OLED. He's done side by side test where a 1080P OLED beat a 4K LCD quite badly in picture quality. He's very good at explaining very technical things in very easy to understand ways.

Here's a recent article of his on 4K Blu-ray. It's a good place to start and then you can explore other articles he's written.

Ultra HD '4K' Blu-ray: Here's what we know - CNET (http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-blu-ray-what-we-know/)

bradh
02-23-2015, 10:25 AM
Sorry, I don't have the money for OLED, but props to you if you do.

And it was noted in the CNET articles I read that the difference between the good 1080 TV's and the 4K is negligible, but I went for it anyway.

traxx
02-23-2015, 10:47 AM
Sorry, I don't have the money for OLED, but props to you if you do.

And it was noted in the CNET articles I read that the difference between the good 1080 TV's and the 4K is negligible, but I went for it anyway.

I realize it's a $900 difference, but if you're already spending $2K on a TV why not just go for it all?


Samsung 55" Class 5458" Diag. LED 2160p Smart 3D 4K Ultra HD TV Silver UN55HU8550FXZA - Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-54-5-8-diag--led-2160p-smart-3d-4k-ultra-hd-tv-silver/4497012.p?id=1219098558798&skuId=4497012)

LG 55" Class 5458" Diag. OLED Curved 1080p Smart 3D HDTV Black 55EC9300 - Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-class-54-5-8-diag--oled-curved-1080p-smart-3d-hdtv-black/7846019.p?id=1219295374459&skuId=7846019)

5alive
02-23-2015, 10:52 AM
BBates...I have the Vizio 4K you referenced. Like it very much.

bradh
02-23-2015, 11:03 AM
I realize it's a $900 difference, but if you're already spending $2K on a TV why not just go for it all?


Samsung 55" Class 5458" Diag. LED 2160p Smart 3D 4K Ultra HD TV Silver UN55HU8550FXZA - Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-54-5-8-diag--led-2160p-smart-3d-4k-ultra-hd-tv-silver/4497012.p?id=1219098558798&skuId=4497012)

LG 55" Class 5458" Diag. OLED Curved 1080p Smart 3D HDTV Black 55EC9300 - Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-class-54-5-8-diag--oled-curved-1080p-smart-3d-hdtv-black/7846019.p?id=1219295374459&skuId=7846019)

sometimes you have to draw a line somewhere. besides, i'm eyeing some new irons later this year :)

OKCisOK4me
02-23-2015, 11:22 AM
Wait. There's not enough 4k content to justify the cost. Now if you make a plethora of cash and the cost of one of these is pocket change then do your thing dawg!

trousers
02-23-2015, 11:38 AM
sometimes you have to draw a line somewhere. besides, i'm eyeing some new irons later this year :)
Now that's some priorities I can respect.

bradh
02-23-2015, 11:43 AM
Now that's some priorities I can respect.

gotta replace some aging 2005 Tommy Armour 845's

hoya
02-23-2015, 12:10 PM
I finally got around to buying an HDTV just last year. Before that I had an old curved screen standard definition thing. I'll keep my current TV until it breaks. Hopefully that's like 20 or 30 years from now.

Just the facts
02-23-2015, 01:53 PM
I agree Hoyasooner - the older I get the less I am interested in buying into an arms race. Besides, the big problem is content quality, not delivery quality. Hollywood and the entertainment industry should spend their effort fixing that first.

Mel
02-23-2015, 02:00 PM
I will not buy a TV my eyes can't appreciate. Low Def eyes ya know.

Jon27
02-23-2015, 02:21 PM
I like mine. I had to get a new TV anyways, so I went for it so I had the latest for a little while. I have the 75", and I really like it. The difference in quality with the Cox signal is definitely noticeable. I haven't upgraded my Netflix subscription to watch House of Cards in 4K. I will today, and watch the end of the second season to see how it is. I'm happy with the TV. I've seen all of the articles about 4K being worthless. I remember the same thing when HD came out though. I guess time will tell!

CuatrodeMayo
02-23-2015, 03:20 PM
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.png