To stir up some discussion in this faith/values forum, I'm going to make a statement and I want to get your response, especially those who are evangelical Christians like myself. (Anyone is welcome to respond.)


"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."

I'd say that the Bank of Scotland has probably begun to regret having Pat Robertson as the Chairman of the Board. :tiphat:

So, where did that statement come from?
I went to an Episcopalian church growing up, but havent gone to church in a long, long time. I have my beliefs that say as long as your a good hearted person you will have a better place to go when you pass. I do believe there is a creator, how else would you explain everything. I would like to believe in a heaven and hell, but why would a loving father send his children to hell? I dont claim to have any answers, just wondering.

As MadMonk referenced, it was indeed Pat Robertson that made the statement on his 700 Club show.

As MadMonk referenced, it was indeed Pat Robertson that made the statement on his 700 Club show.
Understood now.

I'm still interested in people's reaction/response the the quote itself.

So is the quote saying that all the above is the spirit of the Antichrist and you don't have to be nice to any of them?

So is the quote saying that all the above is the spirit of the Antichrist and you don't have to be nice to any of them?
Thats how I took it. I guess Pat Robertson thinks he is better than everyone else.

Thats how I took it. I guess Pat Robertson thinks he is better than everyone else.

Well he is on the poop list right now.

The title of this thread bothers me. Anyone who says they do not have to be nice is self centered.

"It is nice to be important, but it is also important to be nice." Tony Dow as "Wally Cleaver" to his television daughter on "Still the Beaver."

The title of this thread bothers me. Anyone who says they do not have to be nice is self centered.

"It is nice to be important, but it is also important to be nice." Tony Dow as "Wally Cleaver" to his television daughter on "Still the Beaver."

I agree with you on both.

The title of the thread served it's purpose. It attracted attention and it was taken directly from the quote. I wasn't necessarily subscribing to the statement.

I was actually hoping for a more substantive discussion and analysis on the merits of the idea promoted in the quote, perhaps someone either defending or challenging the position from an evangelical Christian perspective (since Robertson calls himself an evangelical) based on biblical principles.

In any case, I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

The title of the thread served it's purpose. It attracted attention and it was taken directly from the quote. I wasn't necessarily subscribing to the statement.

I was actually hoping for a more substantive discussion and analysis on the merits of the idea promoted in the quote, perhaps someone either defending or challenging the position from an evangelical Christian perspective (since Robertson calls himself an evangelical) based on biblical principles.

In any case, I appreciate everyone's thoughts.
I did not take the title in any offensive way, I think maybe people dont like to get into discussions when it comes to religion, it kinda turns into a "Mine is right and yours is wrong" kinda argument. My standpoint is I have my beliefs "you" have yours and please dont try cram "yours" down my throat.

If you want to know what I think about Robertson? I think he is a hipocrate. I went to a baptist school and one guy in class would preach the bible during the day and party at night, he ended up marrying a preachers daughter, got his own church and then cheated on his wife. Now he lost his church and his wife. Would not surprise me if Robertson would do the exact same thing.

I did not take the title in any offensive way, I think maybe people dont like to get into discussions when it comes to religion, it kinda turns into a "Mine is right and yours is wrong" kinda argument.
To be honest, that can apply to any discussion. I agree that many people shy away from discussions about religion, and I don't hold that against them. I purposefully put this discussion in the faith/values forum to discuss it with others who want to discuss religion, faith and values. Religion certainly can digress into an ugly argument, but it doesn't have to.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it.

To be honest, that can apply to any discussion. I agree that many people shy away from discussions about religion, and I don't hold that against them. I purposefully put this discussion in the faith/values forum to discuss it with others who want to discuss religion, faith and values. Religion certainly can digress into an ugly argument, but it doesn't have to.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it.
And it has in another most recent thread LOL, but anyway your welcome.

I try to be nice to everyone that I come into contact with, no matter what they believe. I don't have to agree with them on their beliefs, however, being nice to someone is just common courtesy.

As far as Pat Robertson is concerned....we all make mistakes, and it is not unusual for a public figure to say something stupid, because they are human also. There are some evangelists that I have high respect for, however, I do not follow the man, I follow God. Man will always fail us, but God won't. That's why when one of them says something stupid, I just shake my head and go on. I attend church on a regular basis, and I know many hypocrites in my church that lead a double life. They are good Christians on Sunday, yet, they act just the opposite the rest of the week. I have no use for hypocrites, because they give Christianity a bad name.

There are hypocrites in every church, and I hear people tell me that they don't attend church because of the hypocrites. To me, that is a cop out. The thing is, we are responsible for our own actions, not for the actions of other people. I will not let a hypocrite stand in my way of serving God. I will pray for the hypocrite, so that he doesn't cause another believer to stumble. I have to answer to God for the things that I do.

Thank you for sharing, Keith. You brought up several great points. One principle that you mentioned, "I do not follow the man, I follow God," is one that took me a while to learn.

As an immature believer, it was sometimes hard to separate the "man of God" — a pastor, elder, Sunday School teacher, evangelist, etc. — from God Himself. So when the "man of God" failed, it negatively impacted my belief system, sometimes in very profound ways.

I also agree that for most, avoiding church because "there are hypocrites in church" is indeed a pathetic cop out. If that logic was applied in other areas of life, nobody would belong to anything. However, I do place a great responsibility on churchgoers and the witness they convey to the unchurched and/or unbelieving world. Talking the talk without walking the walk does more to turn people away from Christ than anything else. If the people in the church look and act like those outside the church, what's the point of belonging to the church — i.e. being a Christian. All it becomes is a religion with a laundry list of "do's" and "don'ts" rather than a transformed life of love, hope and grace.

I'm holding off my specific commentary about the Robertson quote until this weekend to allow others to share before I interject.

Thanks again, Keith, for sharing that.

I think it depends on how you interpret that statement. He could've been defending his opinion of not liking the antichrist by saying he didn't have to like anyone....including Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. if he chooses. Still, I think the statement was inappropriate.

By the way, I don't think being a good person gets you to heaven. There's really no way to measure good vs. evil. Everyone is evil if you get right down to it. We're all sinners. That's why God came to earth as Christ, to present the ultimate sacrifice. All we have to do is surrender our lives to Christ, and we will have eternal life. Without Christ, you simply aren't going to heaven. It resembles Bush's policy on terrorism....you're either with him or against him. That's the way God views it.

Just my opinion.. not trying to debate with anyones beliefs or opinions..........

I disagree that it is a "cop out" for not attending church due to all the hypocrites. That is one of the main reasons why I don't attend church. I grew up first in a baptist church for 10 yrs then a methodist church for 8 yrs . As an adult I have attend other churches. It sickens me when I go to church and find that most attendee's in the congregation are fakes, hypocrites, and non-welcoming to people who don't fit in their "social group". I have better times to spend with my family then teaching my children that it is okay to be a hypocrite and talk the christian talk but indeed not walk the christian walk. I haven't given up though. Maybe one day I will find a church that I can feel comfortable in to send my family too but right now I haven't. I will teach my children bibical morals and instill christianity at home or with family better than the church atmosphere's that I have seen. If there is a church that will welcome people off the street, literally, with open arms with complete love and honesty, then I may reconsider. However with how hypocritical and fake society and people are I doubt that it exists.

If there is a church that will welcome people off the street, literally, with open arms with complete love and honesty, then I may reconsider. However with how hypocritical and fake society and people are I doubt that it exists.
Well said, thank you. I know people that go to church regularly and go out and cheat on their spouses, I wont do that ever.

If there is a church that will welcome people off the street, literally, with open arms with complete love and honesty, then I may reconsider. However with how hypocritical and fake society and people are I doubt that it exists.
Thankfully, there are churches out there that will welcome people off the street. How do I know???? Because my church does. My church is located in a very poor area of SE. OKC. There is continuous gang and drug activity going on in the area. We have a pretty good size church, and it does look out of place in this area, however, we are a "neighborhood" church.

We have lots of neighborhood children, teenagers, and adults that attend our church, and it doesn't matter whether they are rich or poor, they have always been welcome in our church. I have been with this church for the last 24 years, and the last 6 years as a youth leader. I have had gang members come in to our youth service, and I welcomed them. We have had many people come in off the street, needing help with food or money, and we never turn them away. We don't beat them over the head with the Bible, but we do share Christ with them. We can help them physically, but only God can help them spiritually. The ones that I work with in the youth, and the deacons I work with weekly are not hypocrites...they are truly Godly people 24/7. Yes, I see the hypocrites in my church, and I stay away from them and I pray for them.

Yes, we welcome people off the street, literally, with open arms. Sometimes they are barely wearing anything and sometimes they have a bad odor, but God never promised us roses. God commanded us to go in to the streets and to bring in the sick, poor, and the unlovely, because they are His children. I know that many "Christians" reject the ones that come off the street, but they will be the ones that answer to God.

Granted, there are many churches out there that are "high class" with upper class and rich people. These are some of the churches that would frown on letting someone come in off the street....maybe because of the way they dress or their appearance. God wants you to wear your best when you come to church, however, if jeans, a t-shirt, and flip flops are the best you have....then you are always very welcome at my church. Shame on the churches that turn people away because of their appearance or their income (or lack of).

Please don't let other people or hypocrites keep you from worshipping God in church. Yes, they are all around us, and in the end, they will have a lot of questions to answer.

It's nice to hear your church welcomes people who are typically unwelcome in many places, including most churches. Unfortunately, your church seems to be a rare exception rather than the rule. In any case, I'm glad you and your church minister to "the least of these." Blessings.

To stir up some discussion in this faith/values forum, I'm going to make a statement and I want to get your response, especially those who are evangelical Christians like myself. (Anyone is welcome to respond.)


"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."



The spirit of the Antichrist. That's a bold prophetic statment about the end of the world according to christian dogma.

So if we are indeed in the precursors of the apocalypse, why is the christian right so busy trying to run everyone's lives?

I said christian right people, not christians, I am not attacking you.