While there isn't an official definition for office building class I wonder if the OKC real estate market has building classified as A locally that shouldn't be, or at least wouldn't be if located in another city. For example, Oklahoma Tower is a local Class A building and is pretty well maintained but it is 41 years old. It would take a pretty iconic building to be 40 years old and still considered Class A in many cities. My point is that newer buildings listed earlier will be the new Class A's even if they are smaller and several of current older class A will eventually drop to Bs.

I'm working in Arvest Tower and they have a cool post covid option for people wanting easy and flexible work locations. The Executive Suites on 2nd floor are 28 individual offices with shared common areas, conference rooms, coffee bar/ kitchen, and WIFI. They even lease furniture so you can move in with just a laptop! They just finished building it last month so it's all nice and new. The rents are low, especially when you can have a personal office for around $500! I think the most expensive is like $1500. Lease options are nice too 1, 3, 6, or 12 month terms. I can easily see this type of office becoming a more common approach in a post covid office world. It seems like it just really stretches that rent dollar for smaller businesses.
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Funny you mention that because I was just looking at that very thing. There has always been places like Regus and Office Suites Plus but it seems it is an easy market to enter with so much spaces available.

While there isn't an official definition for office building class I wonder if the OKC real estate market has building classified as A locally that shouldn't be, or at least wouldn't be if located in another city. For example, Oklahoma Tower is a local Class A building and is pretty well maintained but it is 41 years old. It would take a pretty iconic building to be 40 years old and still considered Class A in many cities. My point is that newer buildings listed earlier will be the new Class A's even if they are smaller and several of current older class A will eventually drop to Bs.

40-50 years is not that old in terms of a high-rise office building. OK Tower has modern floorplates, few columns, etc. And the lobby has been substantially updated. Should Leadership Square not be Class A? It's only slightly newer and has received zero updating since the early 80s (I know because my company was the very first tenant to move in).

These buildings would be Class A in any market. That doesn't mean that some Class A buildings don't charge more than others.

https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/pOzc_r7PtRic1bRxuA4cKdzINA0dntWKgfWDt9sa5Q0/116/210-Park-Ave-Oklahoma-City-OK-Lobby-8-LargeHighDefinition.jpg

https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/rdvDgx570yZUdAPGWIOyM6L-kG5eBcBBOhpOIKRevKQ/116/210-Park-Ave-Oklahoma-City-OK-Building-Photo-9-LargeHighDefinition.jpg

There is more momentum now for office development, then it was before COVID. Never seen so many office projects going on at once in the core.

40-50 years is not that old in terms of a high-rise office building. OK Tower has modern floorplates, few columns, etc. And the lobby has been substantially updated. Should Leadership Square not be Class A?

As you are well aware, building class is relative to the inventory around it. Oklahoma Tower and Leadership Sq are among the nicest buildings in OKC so....Class A. If Devon wasn't owner occupied then who knows.

^

BOK is newer than Devon and is physically connected to the entire Devon complex and that hasn't changed the ratings of downtown buildings.

You are comparing BOK to Devon Tower?

You are comparing BOK to Devon Tower?

Yes. It's almost exactly the same and is part of the entire project.

What options are there for those exec style offices? I know a couple were listed, but I assume there are quite a bit more to choose from. Anything up on Memorial?

There is a multi-story building behind Chili's at Lake Hefner Parkway/Memorial that used to lease executive style offices. There is one in Edmond CBD (14 West Edwards) and in Fairview Office Park (1429 NW 150th - new building, very nice) as well.

Pete, we might just have to disagree over a hypothetical situation since Devon is owner-occupied, and that is okay.

Do you know if there is a list of Class A, B, and C office buildings? It would be interesting to see what falls into B. Loopnet uses a Star rating and BOK is the only 5 Star in OKC. Leadership Sq and Oklahoma are 4 Star.

Price Edwards and Company have office market surveys that are summarized by Class A, B, and C. However, they do not specify which properties are A, B, and C. But, you could figure it out with some math and time.

Pete, we might just have to disagree over a hypothetical situation since Devon is owner-occupied, and that is okay.

Do you know if there is a list of Class A, B, and C office buildings? It would be interesting to see what falls into B. Loopnet uses a Star rating and BOK is the only 5 Star in OKC. Leadership Sq and Oklahoma are 4 Star.

I'm not going to do more work so you can then take whatever I post and twist it into yet another inane argument.

What us the % occupied at the Dowell building downtown?

lol

Cushman & Wakefield has the Oklahoma City office market looking good for the remainder of 2023, according to their recent market analysis:

https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/united-states/insights/us-marketbeats/oklahoma-city-marketbeats

I'll just leave this here and the masses can decide for themselves how the office buildings fall into the categories.

https://www.squarefoot.com/blog/class-a-buildings-class-c-buildings/#:~:text=Large%20financial%20institutions%2C%20ad% 20agencies,Square%20in%20New%20York%20City.

https://www.vts.com/blog/the-3-office-buildings-classes-what-do-they-really-mean#:~:text=Class%20A%20boasts%20high%2Dend,build ings%20are%20built%20to%20impress.

Yes. It's almost exactly the same and is part of the entire project.

also has the same ownership and BOK is basically just sublet to BOK and others ..

OKC downtown office vacancy now up to 27.1%.

And that's after taking a bunch of office space off the market, like First National Center and the two buildings being converted to residential as The Harlow development. Also, the completely vacant Dowell Center isn't included for some reason.

It also doesn't take into account the big chunks of empty space in Devon Tower, as owner-occupied buildings aren't factored in.

The survey by Price Edwards mentions that they expect DT vacancy to continue to increase, as several big leases are set to expire in the next few years, and most companies are still downsizing their space requirements with at least a hybrid work-from-home model.

Not to mention there are also significant vacancies in NW OKC as well. I know of several buildings with open office space for lease.

Any thoughts on what this means for downtown? I'm just a pleb ignorantly spitballing on the internet (and completely undercutting my own input to boot!), but the first assumption is this is very negative as empty office space means a dead downtown which means stagnation, right? But could it also portend (by necessity?) a greater effort by property owners to do more of what First National has done (perhaps at various scales)? Transform these office spaces into hotels, apartments, retail, etc.? If people aren't working downtown get them living downtown?

^

For anything other than the newest buildings, I think you'll see more and more residential and hotel conversions.

Downtown OKC has already seen plenty of both but you can see that will be a future trend.

I think we will see more office buildings, but smaller footprint with mixed use. The Citizen is a good example with having a main tenant as office, but having a hotel component as well.

^

For anything other than the newest buildings, I think you'll see more and more residential and hotel conversions.

Downtown OKC has already seen plenty of both but you can see that will be a future trend.

This has been going on in tulsa for several years (as it has been in OKC to a lesser extent as far as large historic residential conversions go) but last year seemed to be the tipping point. A ton of historic class B & C office space was just taken off the market for residential conversions. In one case an entire city block is set to become 100% residential above the first floor with block across the street already sitting at about 60%.. It's been a very good transition for downtown Tulsa with all the apartments filling up fairly quickly. Have no doubt it will be better in the long run to take that office space off the market and get more residents in downtown OKC as well (I think the Harlow is going to do great). It's shocking Dowel hasn't been converted yet.

OKC downtown office vacancy now up to 27.1%.

And that's after taking a bunch of office space off the market, like First National Center and the two buildings being converted to residential as The Harlow development. Also, the completely vacant Dowell Center isn't included for some reason.

It also doesn't take into account the big chunks of empty space in Devon Tower, as owner-occupied buildings aren't factored in.

The survey by Price Edwards mentions that they expect DT vacancy to continue to increase, as several big leases are set to expire in the next few years, and most companies are still downsizing their space requirements with at least a hybrid work-from-home model.

Do you think this will start to drive commercial rents down at all for the buildings that remain office space?

Former office buildings in OKC converted to residential and/or hotels -- I'm sure I am forgetting some:

First National Center
The Montgomery
Park Harvey
The Carnegie (was a library)
The Harlow
The Colcord
City Place (upper floors now condos)
The Ambassador
1212 N Walker
The Sieber
The Presley

^

For anything other than the newest buildings, I think you'll see more and more residential and hotel conversions.

Downtown OKC has already seen plenty of both but you can see that will be a future trend.

This has been going on in tulsa for several years (as it has been in OKC to a lesser extent as far as large historic residential conversions go) but last year seemed to be the tipping point. A ton of historic class B & C office space was just taken off the market for residential conversions. In one case an entire city block is set to become 100% residential above the first floor with block across the street already sitting at about 60%.. It's been a very good transition for downtown Tulsa with all the apartments filling up fairly quickly. Have no doubt it will be better in the long run to take that office space off the market and get more residents in downtown OKC as well (I think the Harlow is going to do great). It's shocking Dowel hasn't been converted yet.
It's going on in every major city in America (and likely worldwide), with varying degrees of success. Last October I attended the International Downtown Association's national conference in Chicago, and our own downtown is a microcosm of what is going on there. Just the tour we did of the projects on LaSalle were mind-boggling; imagine a half-dozen or more buildings very similar to FNC that have been decimated by the white collar shift to WFM or hybrid work, all being converted to housing. Also broad swaths of retail and restaurant spaces newly-vacant.

The pandemic-driven office reset is real, and Oklahoma City is faring no worse than any other major city. In fact there are indications that we are doing better in many areas than a lot of cities (for instance state offices absorbing Strata Tower vacancies, some new tenant-driven class A space under construction, underway conversions at places like The Harlow.

It's certainly worrisome in the short term, but where I think OKC has a distinct advantage over some other mid-sized and even larger major cities is the fact that we have publicly and aggressively been reinvesting in our downtown for a quarter century. Don't get me wrong, so have many other places. But the investment in quality of life and downtown-centered amenities will make it much easier to weather this storm and to transition to the future of downtowns.

It's very troubling that the newer, bigger buildings downtown all have significant vacancy.

BOK Park Plaza is 58% and I don't think that counts some empty space that is being offered for sublease.
Leadership Square is 38%.
Oklahoma Tower is 21%.
Corporate Tower is 19% but that number will shoot way up when Philips Murrah relocates later this year.
City Place is 29%.
55 N Robinson (the IRS Building) is 55%.

I think what we'll see is that these Class A buildings start to offer deals for tenants to relocate from older buildings because their rent rolls are going to continue to head downward as leases expire and companies contract.

However, arguably most buildings being converted to housing are older Class C office spaces, that can no longer keep up with current energy savings, technology, and amenities employers are wanting/needing to accommodate employees. Your not going to see a Class A office building converted to housing any time soon.

Former office buildings in OKC converted to residential and/or hotels -- I'm sure I am forgetting some:

First National Center
The Montgomery
Park Harvey
The Carnegie (was a library)
The Harlow
The Colcord
City Place (upper floors now condos)
The Ambassador
1212 N Walker
The Sieber
The Presley

I was really comparing CBDs since that's what I was primarily thinking of in regard to vacant office space. I think if you spread it to the entire urban core, OKC and Tulsa are pretty even on conversions with OKC having the edge (by a decent margin) in new residential construction.

This is what I could think of off the top of my head for the Tulsa CBD:

Residential Conversions:


YMCA Lofts
Philtower (top half)
Mayo 420 Building Apts
111 Lofts
Vandever Lofts (Rose Rock)
Reunion Apts (Rose Rock)
Palace Apts (Rose Rock)
Adams Apts (Rose Rock)
The Meridia
Art Deco Lofts
Oil Capital Building
Harrington Lofts
Sinclair Building (Under Construction)
ARCO Building (Under Construction)
Amoco Building (Starting this spring)
Philcade (Starting this spring)
Beacon (Starting this spring)


Hotel Conversions:


Tulsa Club
Hyatt Place
Atlas Life (Courtyard Marriott)
Aloft Tulsa

It's very troubling that the newer, bigger buildings downtown all have significant vacancy.

BOK Park Plaza is 58% and I don't think that counts some empty space that is being offered for sublease.
Leadership Square is 38%.
Oklahoma Tower is 21%.
Corporate Tower is 19% but that number will shoot way up when Philips Murrah relocates later this year.
City Place is 29%.
55 N Robinson (the IRS Building) is 55%.

I think what we'll see is that these Class A buildings start to offer deals for tenants to relocate from older buildings because their rent rolls are going to continue to head downward as leases expire and companies contract.

Have you heard of any deals being offered out there? My business partner and I have toyed with the idea of getting space downtown but with vacancies increasing, figured we'd wait for awhile to see what rent rates do.

Have you heard of any deals being offered out there? My business partner and I have toyed with the idea of getting space downtown but with vacancies increasing, figured we'd wait for awhile to see what rent rates do.

I just had a conversation at lunch with someone and they said the very same thing.

double post Delete me!

Have you heard of any deals being offered out there? My business partner and I have toyed with the idea of getting space downtown but with vacancies increasing, figured we'd wait for awhile to see what rent rates do.

Come see Arvest Tower! They built out the Executive Suites on the second floor last year for super flexible leases and it is proving very successful, 19 of the 28 offices are leased up! I am one of them. Arvest Tower Executive Suites has offices for as low as $540, and it includes wifi, coffee, bottled water, use of the Executive Suite conference Rooms, and a kitchen. Add $100 a month and you get a sit stand desk and chair so you can move in with just a laptop. MTM available with discounts for longer terms. I think this is going to be the best path for a lot of office buildings. You spend less with the common area, and still have a NEW office while being able to grow or shrink as needed.

I wonder how other Class B and C buildings are doing. At Arvest Tower we were only 66% full in 2022, now were are at 80%. Our traditional space $ per sq footage is WAY less than the Class A's around, only $17.50 compared to $27.50 at Oklahoma Tower and LSQ.

I was discussing this with someone in my building just recently. It seems the landlords downtown are a bit disconnected from reality. They think they can automatically raise rates every year despite folks renting office space being able to see their buildings are full of empty spaces. Eventually the laws of supply and demand will kick in and landlords are going to have to start negotiating at lower rates.

I'm lucky enough to be in a very small building and have a 30+ year/multigenerational relationship with the landlord, so despite my great location, my situation has been very stable.

I work in a Class C office space right now, on a hybrid schedule. The office is about 50% full on average on any given day. However, the reason we maintain a full office space is because we have regular training classes. We have to utilize our training room because we have the right equipment, technology, IT support, and onboarding for new trainees. So they can get adequate and efficient training before they go hybrid or fully remote. This is something you can't do over Zoom effectively.

Moreover, some agents just don't want to work from home, they like coming to the office. But I would say 75% of our agents work from home. But management positions are required to be in office 3 days out of the week on a rotating schedule. The demand for office space will never go away, maybe not as large space will be needed, but there is always a demand for some type of space.

Come see Arvest Tower! They built out the Executive Suites on the second floor last year for super flexible leases and it is proving very successful, 19 of the 28 offices are leased up! I am one of them. Arvest Tower Executive Suites has offices for as low as $540, and it includes wifi, coffee, bottled water, use of the Executive Suite conference Rooms, and a kitchen. Add $100 a month and you get a sit stand desk and chair so you can move in with just a laptop. MTM available with discounts for longer terms. I think this is going to be the best path for a lot of office buildings. You spend less with the common area, and still have a NEW office while being able to grow or shrink as needed.

I wonder how other Class B and C buildings are doing. At Arvest Tower we were only 66% full in 2022, now were are at 80%. Our traditional space $ per sq footage is WAY less than the Class A's around, only $17.50 compared to $27.50 at Oklahoma Tower and LSQ.

i think this model and the one that city place has (they sell floors as office "condo's") are ones that will grow and grow

I work in a Class C office space right now, on a hybrid schedule. The office is about 50% full on average on any given day. However, the reason we maintain a full office space is because we have regular training classes. We have to utilize our training room because we have the right equipment, technology, IT support, and onboarding for new trainees. So they can get adequate and efficient training before they go hybrid or fully remote. This is something you can't do over Zoom effectively.

Moreover, some agents just don't want to work from home, they like coming to the office. But I would say 75% of our agents work from home. But management positions are required to be in office 3 days out of the week on a rotating schedule. The demand for office space will never go away, maybe not as large space will be needed, but there is always a demand for some type of space.
Yes, there are a number of these around town. The concept has been around and has been only moderately successful here.

I was discussing this with someone in my building just recently. It seems the landlords downtown are a bit disconnected from reality. They think they can automatically raise rates every year despite folks renting office space being able to see their buildings are full of empty spaces. Eventually the laws of supply and demand will kick in and landlords are going to have to start negotiating at lower rates.

I'm lucky enough to be in a very small building and have a 30+ year/multigenerational relationship with the landlord, so despite my great location, my situation has been very stable.

Some of this is because most office leases have escalation clauses so it makes it easy on landlords to raise rents even on vacant space every year. There are a lot of buildings where owners have had the properties for a long time and have minimal debt, cheap debt, or no debt and for them it doesn't matter as much if the building is 20-30% vacant versus 5% vacant or full. They would rather maximize any new leases rent level wise especially since lease terms are typically 5, 7, or 10 years in length.

I was really comparing CBDs since that's what I was primarily thinking of in regard to vacant office space. I think if you spread it to the entire urban core, OKC and Tulsa are pretty even on conversions with OKC having the edge (by a decent margin) in new residential construction.

This is what I could think of off the top of my head for the Tulsa CBD:

Residential Conversions:


YMCA Lofts
Philtower (top half)
Mayo 420 Building Apts
111 Lofts
Vandever Lofts (Rose Rock)
Reunion Apts (Rose Rock)
Palace Apts (Rose Rock)
Adams Apts (Rose Rock)
The Meridia
Art Deco Lofts
Oil Capital Building
Harrington Lofts
Sinclair Building (Under Construction)
ARCO Building (Under Construction)
Amoco Building (Starting this spring)
Philcade (Starting this spring)
Beacon (Starting this spring)


Hotel Conversions:


Tulsa Club
Hyatt Place
Atlas Life (Courtyard Marriott)
Aloft Tulsa


This has been one trend that we don't give ourselves here in Oklahoma enough credit for, we have been leading nationally in conversions of obsolete offices to other uses. Normally in CRE you see trends from the coasts that slowly filter in this direction. The historic tax credit structure here has been huge and I've been pushing legislatures to enact a similar tax credit program for just obsolete buildings such something from the 80s or 90s build can qualify even though it's not a 'historic' building. That would be huge to move it forward even more.

The smaller floor plates of many building here make it a lot easier to covert too. When they've looked at a lot of conversions in places like Chicago, NY, etc. the building depths are too big to make residential work usually because of code (hard to get windows that are required). There's been some cities looking into revising code for issues like requiring windows in every bedroom, etc.

OKC & Tulsa are well ahead of the majority of major cities and are national models for conversions of older building and how well they have been received over the years.

It's very troubling that the newer, bigger buildings downtown all have significant vacancy.

BOK Park Plaza is 58% and I don't think that counts some empty space that is being offered for sublease.
Leadership Square is 38%.
Oklahoma Tower is 21%.
Corporate Tower is 19% but that number will shoot way up when Philips Murrah relocates later this year.
City Place is 29%.
55 N Robinson (the IRS Building) is 55%.

I think what we'll see is that these Class A buildings start to offer deals for tenants to relocate from older buildings because their rent rolls are going to continue to head downward as leases expire and companies contract.

when I worked for a startup a year or so ago we were looking at office space. Despite all of this vacancy, try looking for something workable on Loopnet. Yes, there are things for lease, but everything is still fairly pricey and / or less than ideal. A lot of corporate property owners are still holding out for golden rents.

And yet we still see office projects being developed. The Citizen, Phillips Murrah, Convergence just to name a few. Also don't forget Citizen Potawatomi Nation recently purchased 18-story Union Plaza, with plans for expansion down the street with another 60,000 sqft building. Seems like the trend that banks will always fill office space.

With the evolution of AI starting to do some daily work, which will also reduce manpower, the days of building 40 story office towers might be over, but I think we will see smaller 15-20 story office towers being developed.

^

All those new office developments involve moving existing tenants from other buildings.

Also, I don't believe all the Chesapeake space is counted in the numbers as of yet, but it is going to hit the market and have an impact.

All of this means our office vacancy is going to continue to go up.

Such a good point, Pete. I always look at these new developments like Citizen and Phillips Murrah with a bit of a "glass half empty/glass half full" reaction.

It is certainly nice to see, visually, new construction rising in the core. Fills in dead spaces, brings street life, brings an appearance of growth and vitality. All great things. But then in the back of my mind, I think, if these companies are leaving other office space in the core then at the end of the day it's really kind of musical chairs. Now, if the companies are relocating from NW Highway or I-40 or, even better, out of state, than that's a win.

On balance I would rather have this new construction than not, but it's not always a 100% good if it leaves hard-to-fill space behind.

It's unfortunate we have a few large companies that chose to build their facilities outside downtown. For example, had PayCom located in the urban core I can only imagine the impact they could have had. That ship has likely sailed but it is something I think about.

But on the positive, Heartland's building on Broadway definitely helped fill a large gap.

It would be nice to see less of the soulless **** on NW Expressway and Memorial and more job concentration inside the Grand loop via better land use. Like that new Chickasaw bank building would’ve looked great downtown or as said above, Paycom.

It's unfortunate we have a few large companies that chose to build their facilities outside downtown. For example, had PayCom located in the urban core I can only imagine the impact they could have had. That ship has likely sailed but it is something I think about.

But on the positive, Heartland's building on Broadway definitely helped fill a large gap.

yeah I think that was a stupid decision but if Paycom wants to be out in the middle of nowhere and likes it, power to them.

I've written this before, but OKC is actually in a pretty fortunate position, in that growth is spread in multiple directions from downtown. It's probably a bit lopsided to the north and northwest, but there is a lot of growth in Yukon/Mustang, Moore/Norman etc. That keeps downtown more or less in the center of the urbanized area. I don't think it's well-appreciated how much that has the power to help the core.

In St. Louis, easily 90% of the growth is due west. On the Dallas side of DFW for example it's overwhelmingly north. In Tulsa it's overwhelmingly south. In coastal cities it's obviously all in an inland direction. Over time that mismatches the center of your population with your core.

In OKC for example, if I wanted to build a large business and be sure I could take advantage of all the population centers it makes sense to be more in the center of the city. I'm not knocking Paycom, I assume they are smart and doing something right, but I bet their employee base is skewed northwest. Would you drive all the way there every day if you lived in Midwest City or Moore? The pay would have to be worth it. (Of course remote work plays a part in this discussion now, but I still think my general point stands)

As traffic gets worse and prices go up, it makes even more sense in OKC to be towards the center. Whether people are thinking this way or not is another story.

Agreed with all of the above, and also OKC is fortunate that converting these office spaces to residential is a viable option. That might also spur a bit of a virtuous cycle, where more population downtown makes downtown office space more desirable, which may bring in more workers. which puts upward pressure on office space rents, etc.

There is clearly a nationwide, post-pandemic shift in what role offices serve, what workers expect from them, and how much space we really need. Thankfully, OKC is in a good place to ride out this transition and capitalize on what the "new normal" is. Can't imagine what this would look like if residential demand wasn't there...probably a lot like what our older posters experienced in the 1980s here.

I would say one more thing. We all cringe and cry when we see old pictures of the buildings that were destroyed downtown during the Pei Plan, and generally we're right to be upset. OKC lost landmarks, character and density. BUT in a way that does help us a bit today, we just have a lot less space available downtown than most cities our size. And what is available, as PoliSciGuy writes, is sometimes available for conversion. It's almost like we "rightsized" our core a generation in advance. To go back to St. Louis, they never did that. There are blocks and blocks and blocks of old structures that they can't fill. Some of them have become trendy lofts but the floor plates for some of the buildings are so large that that's not always practical from a cost standpoint.

^^^^^^^^
The buildings that are most resistant to residential conversion are modern ones, though. MUCH larger floorplates in general, and tons of space away from windows. Some conversions of more modern (70s and later) structures are literally having to scoop out the center of the structures to create light wells. It’s a very expensive proposition.

I was really comparing CBDs since that's what I was primarily thinking of in regard to vacant office space. I think if you spread it to the entire urban core, OKC and Tulsa are pretty even on conversions with OKC having the edge (by a decent margin) in new residential construction.

This is what I could think of off the top of my head for the Tulsa CBD:

Residential Conversions:


YMCA Lofts
Philtower (top half)
Mayo 420 Building Apts
111 Lofts
Vandever Lofts (Rose Rock)
Reunion Apts (Rose Rock)
Palace Apts (Rose Rock)
Adams Apts (Rose Rock)
The Meridia
Art Deco Lofts
Oil Capital Building
Harrington Lofts
Sinclair Building (Under Construction)
ARCO Building (Under Construction)
Amoco Building (Starting this spring)
Philcade (Starting this spring)
Beacon (Starting this spring)


Hotel Conversions:


Tulsa Club
Hyatt Place
Atlas Life (Courtyard Marriott)
Aloft Tulsa



Add one to the Apt list, the downtown Tulsa holiday inn just closed and is being converted to apartments: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/apartments-coming-to-former-downtown-holiday-inn-developer-says/article_266eec50-dda6-11ee-85b9-a736d284fc0e.html?fbclid=IwAR0XeG0nn9m_Zj4TmHEqEBI TcRlG03LQc9mNOnEe5PWkjJTZ8gL5tLTCG8s

Add one to the Apt list, the downtown Tulsa holiday inn just closed and is being converted to apartments: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/apartments-coming-to-former-downtown-holiday-inn-developer-says/article_266eec50-dda6-11ee-85b9-a736d284fc0e.html?fbclid=IwAR0XeG0nn9m_Zj4TmHEqEBI TcRlG03LQc9mNOnEe5PWkjJTZ8gL5tLTCG8s

Also the Tribune Lofts, Transok building, Mayo Hotel Lofts, Bedcheck Building and Bill White Chevy as apartments. And The Brut hotel.

Also the Tribune Lofts, Transok building, Mayo Hotel Lofts, Bedcheck Building and Bill White Chevy as apartments. And The Brut hotel.

Yeah I left most of those off because they aren't in the CBD though I didn't realize the Mayo Hotel itself had residences in it.

Yeah I left most of those off because they aren't in the CBD though I didn't realize the Mayo Hotel itself had residences in it.

About half the building is residential - has 74 units with some of the larger units renting closer toward $5,000+/month. It's very popular with wealthy divorced individuals lol. I personally know 5 different doctors who moved there during getting divorced before buying another house lol. I think the Synders who did the rehab still live here too.

The Transok is in the CBD and East End Village/(Bill White Chevy) is on the border.

About half the building is residential - has 74 units with some of the larger units renting closer toward $5,000+/month. It's very popular with wealthy divorced individuals lol. I personally know 5 different doctors who moved there during getting divorced before buying another house lol. I think the Synders who did the rehab still live here too.

The Transok is in the CBD and East End Village/(Bill White Chevy) is on the border.

I’ve been going to the Mayo for 12 years and had no idea lol.

The Transok building it’s now the Art deco Lofts, which I included. Just didn’t know the original name of the building.

Something to watch for the real estate market, will be at the 5 and 10 year marks post COVID. So I'm thinking next year and then from that point forward to the 10 year mark. That's when we are going to see the leases coming up. For now, tenants can sublease if they can find another tenant to take it on. But as the 5 year leases that were signed just before COVID come up, do companies exit them? Then in the next 5 year chunk, what about the early-out clauses?

Companies get some tax/accounting benefits by "shuddering" operations on leases. But you have to do that for all footage on the lease. So if your lease is per floor, the you can be granular. But if it's not, well then you can't just carve out a space to use and put the rest below the line....it doesn't work that way. But companies are seeing some savings if they can do this, without just paying fully for empty offices. The reason this is all important, is because you are seeing spaces leased out, but aren't really being used. And that means when those leases come up for renewal, well they won't be renewed. And if there's a financial benefit to doing an early-out, then they'll do it. And when that time line comes up, personally i think our vacancy numbers (along with the rest of the country) are going to start looking even worse.

Even before COVID, we couldn't lease out some of the newest space in OKC in the BOK Tower. What we saw instead, is what we continue to see. Smaller low rises where the company can own the entire structure instead of leasing it out. It's not a sound investment in my view because now in today's market, if you need to leave that building, well good luck finding a buyer.

I still haven't figured out Union Plaza either. The tribe buying it doesn't make much sense. It's pretty empty like I described above with maybe a couple hundred people there in any given day. And the new ownership is even less responsive than the old ownership, which is saying something....something bad. Poor management of a building like that, drives what few tenants you have left, away. And honestly, there's nothing special about that building compared to the next one. The maintenance staff is the same, and they are still good. That does go a long way to keeping tenants happy. But if you can't get a reply from your landlord for several days, that's a problem. But that's a different tangent.

I'm saying that we're not done looking at the bad real estate market yet. The drama is just really beginning now. The lease termination fest is just starting folks, and it's going to get ugly.....VERY ugly, before it gets better. Get ready for a massive office space bubble to pop across the country. And toss all those hopes in a market like ours, for something to get built in the next 20 years. Skyscrapers are going to be frozen for a while outside of crammed metros like Chicago/NYC.

I agree it is rather intersting that smaller companies wanting to be downtown are building mid-rise office towers in Midtown/AAlley rather than just renting space in one of the skyscrapers. I appreciate the in-fill but as you mention, it does tie your hands in a way whereas OKC has plenty of office space available in the skyscrapers.

Speaking of that, BancFirst seems to be quite successful. I know BancFirst took 14 floors off the market, but the rest of the tower is pretty full - even a company took the 33rd floor recently am-I-right? I don't recall hearing any renovations of the tower other than the exterior and elevators; what's making BancFirst tower successful? Could that be transferable to BOKPP, Oklahoma Tower, and Leadership Square?

I assume Park Place is successful do to it being B class space, smaller outfits can afford it there. But what about Arvest? They're business condos - is that the way to go for smaller footprint towers throughout the metro?

Interesting to get your thoughts as it appears you have a lot of knowledge in office real estate.

I agree it is rather intersting that smaller companies wanting to be downtown are building mid-rise office towers in Midtown/AAlley rather than just renting space in one of the skyscrapers. I appreciate the in-fill but as you mention, it does tie your hands in a way whereas OKC has plenty of office space available in the skyscrapers.

Speaking of that, BancFirst seems to be quite successful. I know BancFirst took 14 floors off the market, but the rest of the tower is pretty full - even a company took the 33rd floor recently am-I-right? I don't recall hearing any renovations of the tower other than the exterior and elevators; what's making BancFirst tower successful? Could that be transferable to BOKPP, Oklahoma Tower, and Leadership Square?

I assume Park Place is successful do to it being B class space, smaller outfits can afford it there. But what about Arvest? They're business condos - is that the way to go for smaller footprint towers throughout the metro?

Interesting to get your thoughts as it appears you have a lot of knowledge in office real estate.

A few things - you're talking about Arvest being "business condos", do you mean City Place or the old Sandridge buidling? Those are both technically condos, but Arvest is a normal multi-tenant tower.

On BancFirst, you're correct in it having been filled up pretty good recently. On top of the improvements you mentioned, they really knocked it out of the park with the lobby/concourse areas.

It seems all the new office, construction is merely moving tenants from other buildings:

Convergence: Wheeler Bio from Parkside
Alley North: Guernsey from 5555 Grand
Citizen: 6-7 tenants from various spots + 2 floors for a new club
11th & Hudson: Resolution Legal Group from building just north
Phillips Murrah: Relocating from Corporate Tower