That's the one concern I have. One thing I enjoy, now and then, is a cigar, and I like going into a smoke shop or lounge, buying a cigar, and enjoying it. I'd hope a ban wouldn't totally eliminate those. If we're at that point, why not just outlaw smoking altogether (although we know how well prohibition worked...)?

^

Cosmopolitan OKC (new club planned for old Skky Bar space in Bricktown) will have a cigar lounge but all smoking will be on their covered, heated patio.

Ok, that's cool.

I had always found smoke mildly annoying but my mother smoked (and died of lung cancer at 55) and I just dealt with it.

But since living in California and virtually not even smelling it for weeks on end, I'm now incredibly sensitive.

I literally get nauseated by the smell and can't be around it for any length of time.


I think most people don't realize how incredibly disgusting it is until you get completely away from it.

That's very true, Pete. I smoked for many, many years but always tried to be considerate of those around me. I never realized until I quit how I still might have affected others. I work in a smoke free environment and never had a co-worker who smoked until about 6 months ago. He always smokes outside but I still an amazed at the smell by just walking by him or going into his office. It just permeates everything around you when you smoke a lot.

It's about time. Hope it passes.

Hope it passes. Call me selfish I don't really care. It nice to be able to go to any bar and not smell like an ashtray afterwards. Not having to choose where to go based on their smoking policy. The scenario can then be flipped and you can say if you want to smoke go where you can (patios. Stay home) since that is what you currently tell Jon smokers.

I lost my father yesterday to lung cancer. While I'm still not 100% on board with a ban, I personally will never give another dollar to any business which allows smoking, and will encourage my friends to do the same. My sister also quit her job this week working as a bartender at a bar which allows smoking, and is now only working at a non smoking bar. Hopefully the market fixes this.

So sorry for your loss, jerry. That's really tough no matter what the cause.

So sorry for your loss, jerry. That's really tough no matter what the cause.

Thank you, and I appreciate it, but just so folks are clear, I didn't mention it for sympathy, but so that folks know I understand the stakes. I don't think a smoking ban would have saved my father's life, without a time machine involved. I hope every bar and restaurant that allows smoking goes out of business, but I think it should be a result of the market, and not regulation.

As for my father, this was a sudden thing. In the past month we went from headaches, to brain surgery, to a cancer diagnosis, to lung cancer, and finally a bacterial infection that got him (I like to think he beat the cancer). Never imagined something could happen so quick. For those interested, watch the obits on Sunday in the Oklahoman and Edmond Sun. He was a former councilman, business owner, and of course IMO a great man. I'm a Junior so look for my name. More people should have known him.

Thank you, and I appreciate it, but just so folks are clear, I didn't mention it for sympathy, but so that folks know I understand the stakes. I don't think a smoking ban would have saved my father's life, without a time machine involved. I hope every bar and restaurant that allows smoking goes out of business, but I think it should be a result of the market, and not regulation.

As for my father, this was a sudden thing. In the past month we went from headaches, to brain surgery, to a cancer diagnosis, to lung cancer, and finally a bacterial infection that got him (I like to think he beat the cancer). Never imagined something could happen so quick. For those interested, watch the obits on Sunday in the Oklahoman and Edmond Sun. He was a former councilman, business owner, and of course IMO a great man. I'm a Junior so look for my name. More people should have known him.

So sorry to hear that. We had a similar scenario in my family about a year-and-a-half ago. My Great-Grandfather went from what we thought was perfect health to lying on his death bed in three weeks time due to both lung cancer (from smoking, although he had quit around 30 year prior to his death) and brain cancer. It was such a shock and complete blow for our entire family because he was the rock and foundation of our family.

I hold the same sentiments you do for obviously similar reasons. You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. I wish nothing but blessings and peace for you all.

I lost my father yesterday to lung cancer. While I'm still not 100% on board with a ban, I personally will never give another dollar to any business which allows smoking, and will encourage my friends to do the same. My sister also quit her job this week working as a bartender at a bar which allows smoking, and is now only working at a non smoking bar. Hopefully the market fixes this.Very sorry to hear that man.

I agree with you with the market issue. I hope people will open up their eyes on this.

Our best hope with a smoking ban is that it not only decreases one's exposure to second hand smoke but it also creates a culture where smoking is not cool. Once you've started smoking it's very difficult to quit. Nicotine is one of the more addicting substances on earth. But if we can keep people from starting, that would be excellent. Allmost all of my daughter's friends from high school here smoke/smoked but virtually none of her friends in California do.

Our best hope with a smoking ban is that it not only decreases one's exposure to second hand smoke but it also creates a culture where smoking is not cool. Once you've started smoking it's very difficult to quit. Nicotine is one of the more addicting substances on earth. But if we can keep people from starting, that would be excellent. Allmost all of my daughter's friends from high school here smoke/smoked but virtually none of her friends in California do.

After they passed the ban in North Carolina, it was pretty quickly and smoking started to become socially unacceptable. I agree about Nicotine being one of the most addicting substances on earth. Quitting smoking was one of the most difficult things I ever did. I would go back to smoking it not for the negatives such as the cost, the smell, and the health problems.

When California was the first state to ban smoking in all bars and restaurants back in the 90's, it most definitely created a cultural shift.

Smoking rates were never as high as many places but still there were plenty of people who smoked.

Now, you almost never see it anywhere. Far fewer younger people start and those that are hopelessly addicted have been pretty much cut way back, just because you can't smoke any place you go (including most parks and beaches, and in some towns, no public places at all).


Same thing happened with texting and talking on the phone while driving. I've mentioned before you have more to fear from the general public than the cops when it comes to this. It's totally not acceptable here and you'll get yelled at, honked at, etc.

After they passed the ban in North Carolina, it was pretty quickly and smoking started to become socially unacceptable. I agree about Nicotine being one of the most addicting substances on earth. Quitting smoking was one of the most difficult things I ever did. I would go back to smoking it not for the negatives such as the cost, the smell, and the health problems.

Bchris,
When the doctor tells me I am terminal, I plan on going to the atm and getting enough money to buy enough cartons of non filtered Pall Mall cigarettes to last till I die! I quit in December, 1999 and like you, it was really hard and I still miss them. Of course if I'm terminal, the cost and health problems won't be an issue, and I can handle the smell as long as I'm the one causing it.
C. T.

Same thing happened with texting and talking on the phone while driving. I've mentioned before you have more to fear from the general public than the cops when it comes to this. It's totally not acceptable here and you'll get yelled at, honked at, etc.
For talking on the phone? I had a lady start screaming at me for talking on the phone in traffic the other day, so I just told my friend I'll call him later and put down so she'd calm down. It's already starting to happen here. When I see people texting and driving, I'll honk at them and flip them the bird sometimes. But I don't see the problem with talking.

Here, you can't talk on the phone while driving unless it's hands-free.

Stiff fine for doing so, and it's pretty well enforced.

I didn't know that. I'll have to get used to that. At least my car has Bluetooth equipped.

Mine defaults to Bluetooth anyway, but you still have to look away from the road at the little screen to "accept" or "reject" the call. No matter what, there will always be *some* form of distraction. Not nearly as bad as it could be, but it's still taking attention away from the road.

Mine defaults to Bluetooth anyway, but you still have to look away from the road at the little screen to "accept" or "reject" the call. No matter what, there will always be *some* form of distraction. Not nearly as bad as it could be, but it's still taking attention away from the road.

Turnpup,
I agree totally. Most of the problems I have while driving, minor as the may seem are caused by people on cell phones. The worst when somebody cuts me off, ignores a yield sign, turns right on red without slowing down, and the really minor but irritating ones, missing a green arrow turn signal light because the person in front of me is on their phone (yes, I see it when they are turning) and they always seem to wake up (sometimes because I honk) just in time to be the only car that gets to turn before it turns amber/red. It is not possible to talk on the phone either handheld or bluetooth without being distracted, it's only the degree of distraction that changes. Driving requires thinking, and so does talking on the phone so which one is the most important? My phone is for emergencies and it is either off or totally silent, not even the vibrate is on while I am in the car, or for that matter, even at home since I have a landline. When I get to my destination, I might take it out of my pocket to see if there is a missed call. And I should mention, both of my boys live on their phones, the older one because he works a lot out of his vehicle. But, they are in their mid to late 40's, and it's not the way I taught them. Of course, when they were still at home, we didn't have cell phones.
C. T.

Turnpup,
I agree totally. Most of the problems I have while driving, minor as the may seem are caused by people on cell phones. The worst when somebody cuts me off, ignores a yield sign, turns right on red without slowing down, and the really minor but irritating ones, missing a green arrow turn signal light because the person in front of me is on their phone (yes, I see it when they are turning) and they always seem to wake up (sometimes because I honk) just in time to be the only car that gets to turn before it turns amber/red.
C. T.

That's why I honk immediately if someone doesn't go when the light is green.

By "honk" I mean I also roll down the window and scream like a crazy person.

That's why I honk immediately if someone doesn't go when the light is green.

By "honk" I mean I also roll down the window and scream like a crazy person.

Do you hold you pinky and thumb up to your face and yell at them "get off the F'n PHONE!!!"?

I saw a great graphic on smoking rates the other day but can't find it now. It peaked around the time I was in high school, '70s. Born into a two smoker family, I was probably addicted before I ever lit one up. Started at 15 and quit finally for the last time around 30. One of the notable influences on declining rates later was nicotine substitutes, which I didn't have at the time I quit. I used the harm reduction method of eating, which led to gaining weight, and remains an ongoing battle.
2.5 decades later a lung capacity test ages my lungs at 90. I'm totally for laws against smoking in a car with a minor, in public places and making it as difficult and unappealing as possible, just short of outright illegal everywhere.

It's amazing to me that in this day and age and knowing everything we do, that 18% of adults in the U.S. still smoke.

That is certainly way down from the 40% of the 60's but still, you would think that number would be much lower by now.

The CDC reports that 43% of all smokers attempted to quit in just the last year. Nicotine has to be one of the most highly addictive substances known to man, yet it is barely regulated due to the massive influence of the tobacco companies.

I have no doubt that in another 20 years people will look back at this time and wonder what the heck the government was thinking. It's pretty unbelievable there aren't much stronger restrictions and regulations already in place

This is a really interesting graph from the CDC.

The blue line represents high school students. As late as 1999, 35% of high school students smoked at least sometimes. 1999!! 35%!!!

By 2011, that number had dropped to 18%. Very important because, obviously, if you never start you never get addicted.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/images/trends_2011b.jpg

This is the graphic I saw the other day. Largest peak in the '60s, dropped following some bad press and peaked again in the '70s. Somewhere in there advertising was reined in.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9XxSZ2CcAAmMnU.png

The peak in the 60's was mainly due to women, as for the first time cigs were marketed to them smoking was somewhat connected to being 'liberated'.

I have to think a lot of smoking numbers these days might not be entirely accurate. A lot of people have moved to vaping in the past few years and those who vape don't see it as smoking. They see themselves as non smokers more times than not. Vaping is being marketed as a safe alternative to smoking and that's not entirely true. It may not be as bad as smoking cigarettes, but there's no evidence to show that it's safe.

For talking on the phone? I had a lady start screaming at me for talking on the phone in traffic the other day, so I just told my friend I'll call him later and put down so she'd calm down. It's already starting to happen here. When I see people texting and driving, I'll honk at them and flip them the bird sometimes. But I don't see the problem with talking.

I've heard news reports that say even talking on the phone with a hands-free device still results in impaired driving. The psychologist stated that it's human nature to place verbal interaction as more important than (life-impacting) operation of an automobile, and so we STILL don't pay the attention to driving as much when talking on the phone (even with hands-free devices) as opposed to when a conversation isn't in progress.

It's amazing to me that in this day and age and knowing everything we do, that 18% of adults in the U.S. still smoke.

That is certainly way down from the 40% of the 60's but still, you would think that number would be much lower by now.

The CDC reports that 43% of all smokers attempted to quit in just the last year. Nicotine has to be one of the most highly addictive substances known to man, yet it is barely regulated due to the massive influence of the tobacco companies.

I have no doubt that in another 20 years people will look back at this time and wonder what the heck the government was thinking. It's pretty unbelievable there aren't much stronger restrictions and regulations already in place

I'm an ex-smoker. Quit several times. Lost my Mom to cancer (who I would say committed suicide via smoking -- long story). I'm amazed, too, when I see people smoking. All the same (as has been said), it's a powerful addiction (chemical AND psychological) and the peer pressure when I was young was incredible.

I've heard news reports that say even talking on the phone with a hands-free device still results in impaired driving. The psychologist stated that it's human nature to place verbal interaction as more important than (life-impacting) operation of an automobile, and so we STILL don't pay the attention to driving as much when talking on the phone (even with hands-free devices) as opposed to when a conversation isn't in progress.intersting. I have been driving for 4 years and talked on the phone and never came close to being in an accident. So next they'll need to outlaw radios and navigation because it could be distacting. Then on to signs.

I can completely understand it being illegal to text ask drive, but after that we will surely have people go after talking. It will never stop.

I've heard news reports that say even talking on the phone with a hands-free device still results in impaired driving. The psychologist stated that it's human nature to place verbal interaction as more important than (life-impacting) operation of an automobile, and so we STILL don't pay the attention to driving as much when talking on the phone (even with hands-free devices) as opposed to when a conversation isn't in progress.

Wouldn't that also be the case when speaking with a passenger?

Do you hold you pinky and thumb up to your face and yell at them "get off the F'n PHONE!!!"?
I'd like to rig up a lighted sign for my truck that says:
"Hang up the F'n Fone and DRIVE, A**hole."
Except with the correct spelling.

But this thread is supposed to be about smoking.
(I enjoyed two of the best cigars, ever, in the last couple of days. I hope the Anti-Tobacco Nazis keep their hobnailed boots from trampling all over cigar bars and smoking rooms at cigar stores.)

Wouldn't that also be the case when speaking with a passenger?

Absolutely. That's one of the reasons I like laws that say how many people can be in a car with a teen-age driver. When I'm driving and in a conversation, and the situation becomes one that I should probably pay more attention to the operation of my vehicle than to the conversation I'm having, my passenger NEVER minds when I say, "Hold on. I think I need to pay a bit more attention to the road." In fact, they're quite in favor of it.
FWIW, I'm not saying I'm in favor of any new laws on the books for texting and driving -- I think we (Oklahoma) already have a distracted driving law that suffices. I'm not in favor of banning hands-free calls and driving. I think any unenforceable law is stupid. I just think it's important to know and keep aware of the fact that when I'm driving -- when I'm operating a semi-guided missile -- that's my number one priority.

Study done with driving simulator. Makes sense to me.


University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah
Previous work on use of cell phones while driving compared cell phone conversations while driving with
driving only conditions. This study investigated how conversing on a cell phone differs from conversing
with a passenger. Participants conversed about close-call situations they experienced. We compared how
well drivers followed task instructions when driving only, when driving and conversing on a cell phone,
and when driving and conversing with a passenger. The results show that the number of driving errors was
highest in the cell-phone condition. Analyzing the conversations we found that in passenger conversations
more references were made to traffic and more turn taking followed those references than in cell phone
conversations. The results show that passenger conversations differ from cell phone conversations because
the surrounding traffic becomes a topic of the conversation, helping driver and passenger to share situation
awareness, and mitigating the potential effects of conversation on driving

http://www.distraction.gov/downloads/pdfs/passenger-and-cell-phone-conversations-in-simulated-driving.pdf

Think this thread has gotten WAY off topic

Think this thread has gotten WAY off topic

Trying to figure out how we went from discussing smoking to distracted driving. It doesn't matter the subject, it always turns to driving and traffic somehow.

I find this encouraging given that it was proposed by a Democrat and is perceived by some as liberal.

Senate panel passes measure prohibiting smoking in vehicle if minor is present | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/senate-panel-passes-measure-prohibiting-smoking-in-vehicle-if-minor-is-present/article/5394892)

Anyone have any experience with what smoking bars will smell like and the air quality after they go smoke free? Does that stale leftover smoking smell ever completely go away? I think of places like Edna's or Henry Hudsons or any other smoking bar and if you'll ever feel like the air is clean in there after those places have been caked in cigarette smoked for years.

Pete, you have a feel for those ex-smoking bars in Cali? Any signs it was a smoking place 10-15 years later?

But this thread is supposed to be about smoking.
(I enjoyed two of the best cigars, ever, in the last couple of days. I hope the Anti-Tobacco Nazis keep their hobnailed boots from trampling all over cigar bars and smoking rooms at cigar stores.)


Don't tease...what were they?

Oklahoma Senate committee kills anti-smoking bill | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-senate-committee-kills-anti-smoking-bill/article/3756712)

Oklahoma Senate committee kills anti-smoking bill | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-senate-committee-kills-anti-smoking-bill/article/3756712)Not surprising since this bill would have allowed cities to decide for themselves. The legislature has shown in the past they don't want cities to decide things for themselves. Joint Resolution 24 which would make a statewide law is still alive so far.

Oklahoma Senate committee kills anti-smoking bill | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-senate-committee-kills-anti-smoking-bill/article/3756712)

This literally might be the worst legislative session in Oklahoma history.

Like many other things in this state, a petition and public vote may be the best way to change the law.

Gee, it's not like Oklahoma has tobacco fields in the state.

Wow, it wasn't even close. Only two committee members even voted for it. So basically it will be years and years before anything changes.

Wow, it wasn't even close. Only two committee members even voted for it. So basically it will be years and years before anything changes.Not necessarily. The bill that was defeated in committee was not the smoking ban bill. It was one that would have allowed city by city smoking laws. SJR24, the smoking ban bill, is alive and well.

The Oklahoma legislature constantly has me scratching my head. I could see the State banning laws that weren't as strict as state laws, but banning laws that are more strict? That doesn't even make sense. The way things are going in Oklahoma we might as well just eliminate City charters altogether, or roll them up into a branch of the State government. I guess it is just a sign of how much the legislature has sold themselves out to business interest. For me, when given the choice between private profit and public quality of life, I'll choose public quality of life.

Also, I would be 100% in support of ban on patio smoking. I like eating outside and there is nothing I hate more than eating and have some group come sit at the table next me and light up a bunch of cigarettes. It is getting to the point that I might start making a scene about it.

Surely some eating places open to the public have no smoking patios. That's how conservatives apparently want it. Let businesses decide how they want to handle smoking, or get rid of it entirely.

Surely some eating places open to the public have no smoking patios. That's how conservatives apparently want it. Let businesses decide how they want to handle smoking, or get rid of it entirely.

Unless the smoker wants smoke inside the Cone of Smoke, it effects everyone around them. There are laws against me urinating on the people next to me, but urine is sterile.

It seems insane so many businesses still allow smoking on their premises.

This literally might be the worst legislative session in Oklahoma history.

Like many other things in this state, a petition and public vote may be the best way to change the law.

Wait, we're upset now that they didn't pass a bill that wouldn't hold up to a lawsuit and would likely be ruled unconstitutional? Everyone gets upset for the state passing laws which then get overturned, and complain about wasting time and resources, unless they support them I guess. There's a good chance this law would have been the same. I'm anti-smoking, but Oklahoma's constitution is set up where the cities don't have the level of control that folks seem to think. Anti-smoking laws, minimum wages, etc, are powers that seem to be reserved to the state.

Wait, we're upset now that they didn't pass a bill that wouldn't hold up to a lawsuit and would likely be ruled unconstitutional? Everyone gets upset for the state passing laws which then get overturned, and complain about wasting time and resources, unless they support them I guess. There's a good chance this law would have been the same. I'm anti-smoking, but Oklahoma's constitution is set up where the cities don't have the level of control that folks seem to think. Anti-smoking laws, minimum wages, etc, are powers that seem to be reserved to the state.

Huh? Why would the State pass a law that says a City can't have a stricter law than the State if doing so was unconstitutional anyhow?

Huh? Why would the State pass a law that says a City can't have a stricter law than the State if doing so was unconstitutional anyhow?

Shrug. Not sure I can explain the state's motives either. You'd have to ask Robert S. Kerr III.

It seems to me the Oklahoma politicians were upset about Federal overlords, because they want to be the overlords, and a population can only have one overlord at a time. I still believe that government that is closest to the people governs best, which is why I am ready for the return of City-States.

It seems insane so many businesses still allow smoking on their premises.

Name one bar in okc that's opened recently that allows smoking indoors. Most allow it on the patio in open air, which doesn't really bother that much. The free market is taking care of this for us.

Can anyone recommend a sports bar, not chili's or applebee's, on Memorial where you can't smoke inside?

Can anyone recommend a sports bar, not chili's or applebee's, on Memorial where you can't smoke inside?Not really such a thing a non-smoking real sports bar on Memorial. The closet thing would be Pub W, Twin Peaks and Baker Street.

I also love how smokers on patios don't hold their cigarettes close to them or their party, they know and think its disgusting so they hold it out as far as possible behind them not caring about the surrounding people behind them.

Shrug. Not sure I can explain the state's motives either. You'd have to ask Robert S. Kerr III.

Here's a dirty little secret some of you probably already know, but most people in Oklahoma don't. The tobacco lobby views Oklahoma as a playground. They send their lobbyists to Oklahoma (12 of them at last count) and have them try to kill any anti-smoking regulation before it even get heard by committee. Nine times out of ten, they're successful. A couple of the tobacco industry lobbyists have personally told me they view Oklahoma as a vacation because it's so easy to do their job here. We currently have an anti-tobacco governor, but the only way we will be able to get stricter tobacco laws is either to bring it to a vote of the people or embarrass the state legislators who accept tobacco industry campaign donations.


Big Tobacco-Backed Lawmakers Take Down Oklahoma's Anti-Smoking Bill | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/02/19/1610641/big-tobacco-oklahoma-anti-smoking-bill/)

^

That's because Oklahoma is one of the few states without comprehensive bans, and the tobacco companies want to keep it that way.

It's all very twisted. I have no doubt that in the very near future people will look back and say, "How on earth did Oklahoma not ban smoking until 201X??? What in the world was the thinking??" And no one will have any good answers.