View Full Version : 2015 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion
catch22 02-12-2015, 07:03 PM May 16 is the last day United Airlines agents will be working your flights in OKC. Whether that is loading your bags, checking you in, or boarding your flight at the gate. On May 17, a contract company (G2) paying workers $9 an hour with very few benefits will be displacing Union employees with dedicated years of service, both in customer facing positions as well as baggage loading/ramp position.
Many of these people have upwards of 20 years of dedicated service to the company. Many will elect to retire while some may move on. But a lot will probably end up furloughed and lose their job. Say thanks to them next time you are boarding, or if you seem them stressed out know their life has just been turned upside down and don't be too hard on them. It's hard to put a smile on your face and show up for the job when you've just been informed you will be letting go. Great employees and all of them really do care about the customer even if they don't express it properly at times or seem short/rude.
bradh 02-12-2015, 08:23 PM I will be flying first weekend in May on UA and will definitely do so.
no1cub17 02-12-2015, 09:29 PM Damn that is really sad. When is SMI/J going to take a pay cut himself? I don't fly UA ever, but still extremely sad how he's going to ruin not just one airline, but two.
I've pretty much only fly AA these day. I really appreciate the excellent customer service you've personally given me in the past, catch22.
bradh 02-13-2015, 12:45 PM catch what is your role there?
HOT ROD 02-14-2015, 03:18 AM United To Cut 1,150 Jobs At 16 US Airports (http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1423885283.html)
I was hoping that OKC would be one of the posts avoided with cuts, particularly with the robust schedule United is putting into OKC for the rest of 2015.
Plutonic Panda 02-14-2015, 03:23 AM Aren't airlines reporting record profits? I thought I read that somewhere.
Tigerguy 02-14-2015, 12:46 PM Aren't airlines reporting record profits? I thought I read that somewhere.
True, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be keen on spending all of those profits immediately. Yes, there will be some investments made in the form of new or refurbished planes, product enhancements, etc., but it might not take much (economically speaking) to make those profits go bye-bye. As much as I'd like them to put it back into the airline by decreasing outsourcing, increasing creature comforts, and the whole nine yards, I recognize they have to be smart with their money in an unpredictable industry.
catch22 02-14-2015, 02:19 PM True, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be keen on spending all of those profits immediately. Yes, there will be some investments made in the form of new or refurbished planes, product enhancements, etc., but it might not take much (economically speaking) to make those profits go bye-bye. As much as I'd like them to put it back into the airline by decreasing outsourcing, increasing creature comforts, and the whole nine yards, I recognize they have to be smart with their money in an unpredictable industry.
The company has stated to us, that the cost difference to keep mainline employees in a station is approximately $1 million per year, per station. Some will cost more some smaller ones will cost less.
Out of us 16 that are being sold out, that would represent around $20 million total per year in cost savings. We just reported a $1.97 BILLION dollar profit.
$20 million is a drop in the bucket. This is pure greed from the top.
no1cub17 02-14-2015, 06:34 PM The company has stated to us, that the cost difference to keep mainline employees in a station is approximately $1 million per year, per station. Some will cost more some smaller ones will cost less.
Out of us 16 that are being sold out, that would represent around $20 million total per year in cost savings. We just reported a $1.97 BILLION dollar profit.
$20 million is a drop in the bucket. This is pure greed from the top.
Wow - those are staggering numbers. That really stinks for all UA employees who've poured years of effort into the company and into serving their passengers. Hopefully SMI/J and the suits running that sinking ship are forced out sooner rather than later.
Sadly it wouldn't shock me at all to see other airlines follow suit. LCC Dougie has proven he all he cares about is fattening his wallet, so I'm sure more cuts are coming to AA.
Tigerguy 02-14-2015, 10:45 PM The company has stated to us, that the cost difference to keep mainline employees in a station is approximately $1 million per year, per station. Some will cost more some smaller ones will cost less.
Out of us 16 that are being sold out, that would represent around $20 million total per year in cost savings. We just reported a $1.97 BILLION dollar profit.
$20 million is a drop in the bucket. This is pure greed from the top.
I'm not necessarily trying to be an apologist for United, but I don't think it's greed so much as it's wanting to prove themselves...however, it happens to be to the shareholders. Whatever moves they make seem to feed into the objective of pleasing the shareholders, instead of good moves that lead to good performance, thus pleasing the shareholders. (Making the investors happy isn't bad, of course, but up to a point...) To that end, this letter: Ralph Nader: Letter To Jeff Smisek, CEO Of United Airlines - Eurasia Review (http://www.eurasiareview.com/14022015-ralph-nader-letter-jeff-smisek-ceo-united-airlines/)
And still, given how unpredictable things can be, I don't necessarily blame them for seeking to cut costs and increase revenue before the going gets rough again. As I said before, though, I think they're going about it in a way that will make the whole job more difficult in the long run.
catch22 02-15-2015, 10:26 AM I'm sorry but even if we are posting losses, $20 million is such a small number to the overall bottom line.
Where does the outsourcing stop? Our CBA expires next year. They are going to come after the hubs on the next contract. Once they've outsourced all the ramp and customer service, they are going to keep outsourcing. Who's next? Mechanics?
They are tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. Treat us right and give us a reason to trust you and you will have the happiest and most loyal customers ever. They are crapping all over us, they are not treating us with dignity, they are giving us every reason to not trust them. Then they wonder why customer service scores are so poor?
They switch staffing models which routinely leaves the operation understaffed. They then blame us when aircraft sit on the ramp waiting to be parked.
Treat your employees right, give them the tools and power to fix problems, and you'll never have a need for a complaint desk. They are doing the opposite. These $9 an hour contractors DO NOT CARE about the future of the company. They DO NOT CARE if the customer returns.
They will get what they pay for. If they want $9 an hour quality of work, they are getting ready to see 16 more stations of it. Just ask how Denver has worked out this winter. Expect that systemwide.
CaptDave 02-15-2015, 11:25 PM Aren't airlines reporting record profits? I thought I read that somewhere.
Wall Street wants blood from the turnip. Shareholder "value" is more important than anything else.
Plutonic Panda 02-15-2015, 11:27 PM Wall Street wants blood from the turnip. Shareholder "value" is more important than anything else.
It's like the more successful they get, the more greedy they become.
OUman 02-16-2015, 08:35 AM I think the exception at the moment (among the major carriers anyway) is Delta:
Forbes Article - Delta Sharing Profits (http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2014/09/24/exclusive-delta-gives-employees-a-raise-and-early-profit-sharing/)
Not that DL is immune to cuts/corporate greed but I've noticed in recent years the philosophy among the top brass is a bit different than the others. I'm not being a cheerleader for DL or anything but at least it's trying.
Going back to the "shareholders" argument, Jetblue has become the latest airline to succumb to them. Money trumps everything else these days.
Again, really sorry to hear about yours and all the others jobs at UA catch22, I'm sure another job awaits you out there.
s00nr1 02-23-2015, 10:43 AM Was lucky enough to get out of OKC yesterday on a jam packed CR2 on AA. First time I've been on anything other than a mad dog on the OKC-DFW route in quite some time.
Bunty 02-25-2015, 01:45 AM Future of commercial service up in the air - Stillwater News Press: News (http://www.stwnewspress.com/news/future-of-commercial-service-up-in-the-air/article_38d22480-b8b6-11e4-bf1f-e79491a9d8af.html)
venture 02-25-2015, 02:07 AM Future of commercial service up in the air - Stillwater News Press: News (http://www.stwnewspress.com/news/future-of-commercial-service-up-in-the-air/article_38d22480-b8b6-11e4-bf1f-e79491a9d8af.html)
Based on conversations I've had with people that have been in Fort Worth recently, American wants significantly more money than what cities are offering them right now. SWO will likely not get air service any time soon unless they cough up a good deal of cash.
Bunty 02-25-2015, 05:37 PM Based on conversations I've had with people that have been in Fort Worth recently, American wants significantly more money than what cities are offering them right now. SWO will likely not get air service any time soon unless they cough up a good deal of cash.
It can't hurt the situation, if the price of oil stays well under $100 barrel.
NWOKCGuy 02-25-2015, 06:21 PM Qq for those of you in the industry. Alaskan to Seattle prices have gone crazy throughout July from where they were about a month ago. Also seats seem limited for this far in advance. Do you think they're holding seats or is it possible they've filled already?
bradh 02-25-2015, 08:13 PM Incredibly popular time of year to travel up there
venture 02-26-2015, 03:36 AM It can't hurt the situation, if the price of oil stays well under $100 barrel.
Network carriers are in stock pile mode right now to prepare for the next upswing in oil prices.
no1cub17 02-26-2015, 03:10 PM Incredibly popular time of year to travel up there
That - plus only one flight/day (on a regional jet at that (albeit a larger RJ)). Plus the relatively strong AA FF base here - shouldn't be hard for AS to print money on this route, especially in the summer. I checked fares some random weekends just to see - looks like DL is aggressively trying to undercut AS on this route by selling connections via SLC. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, given the state of AS and DL's relationship as it is.
no1cub17 02-28-2015, 11:13 PM Hope none of y'all were on this flight - yikes! American Airlines flight 382 grounded on the runway for nine hours | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2973515/American-Airlines-flight-382-grounded-runway-nine-hours.html)
Filthy 03-01-2015, 09:18 PM Hope none of y'all were on this flight - yikes! American Airlines flight 382 grounded on the runway for nine hours | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2973515/American-Airlines-flight-382-grounded-runway-nine-hours.html)
I was on this flight. It was a complete nightmare. First if all, it was on a relatively small airplane. It was the last leg of my flight home from NY...so, I had personally already been traveling for about 6 hours before I even got on this plane. For whatever reason (maybe because of the short flight time) they weren't properly equipped with food/beverage supplies. They were rationing water, by opening ozarka bottled water, and pouring a very little but in everyone's cup. They got about 3/4 of the way back, before they ran out. They wouldn't let anyone off the plane, because they said that they might get the "OK" to De-Ice at anytime. People were getting short tempered, taking it out on the stewardess, and other passengers. It was also very frustrating, to sit there for 10+ hours...sitting inside a packed airplane, and being told that they didn't know anything, yet every 45 minutes to an hour, different planes on gates of both sides of us, came and went probably 12-15 times in that same time span. Every time a new plane, would come and go...the co-pilot would get on the intercom, and just say..."Ladies and gentleman...I apologize, and realize those planes next to us, continue to depart...but for some reason, they won't let us leave....We just don't know why."
And then everything escalated even further when all of the stewardess started arguing with each other. They made it known to ALL passengers, that it was now illegal for them to even be on the plane, because thir shift had been more than 16 consecutive hours. They got on the intercom, and said..."Ladies and Gentleman, we need some of you, to stop having an attitude We're doing the best we can, and we shouldn't even be on this plane anymore. It's against our FAA rules, for us...but we've decided to stay on this plane for you guys...so, stop complaining." And then at some point in time, they decided they wanted to leave. So, they all go the the front of the plane...and the pilot announces, that now all the passengers must get off the plane...because its "illegal" for passengers to be on the plane, without the stewardesses. And that everyone had to get all carry ones, bags, and deplane. So, everyone stands up...grabs their bags....and stands there in the aisles for 20+ minutes, until the pilot tells us that...well...never mind, the stewardesses have decided to stay.
At about the 7 hour mark, we finally get the thumbs up, to De-Ice. So, we wait in line to De-Ice....45 minutes later, we got to take off. As we're getting ready to take off, he gets to about 30-40% throttle for wheels up, he all of the sudden pulls the ol' E Brake and shuts it down. He comes over the intercoms, stating that there is now a major mechanical issue, and that it was just discovered at the last second. We pull in to find a new gate, so maintenance can look at the plane, but low and behold....there's no available gates now. So, we sit on the Tarmac for another hour...just waiting for an available gate. It was like a bad movie. People were at each others throats, there were no food/water options...and everyone just wanted off the damn plane.
I did get to know all of the people all around me, as everyone was borrowing phone chargers, and tried to stay positive about the situation... But it was tough.
I do understand, that the weather played a huge role int he entire fiasco, but I am extremely upset with the lack of communication by AA.
no1cub17 03-01-2015, 11:00 PM My goodness - sounds like a total nightmare. Sounds like dispatch really dropped the ball. Just curious have you contacted AA and asked for some compensation? A good sized voucher is the least they could do. I'm not sure I would've been able to tolerate this.
Catering on this flight is really minimal - it's catered for a half hr flight - one drink run (if that) - not for several hours and multiple beverages per person - so it's not surprising at all that the FAs ran out of water/beverages quickly.
Glad you finally made it home safely!
BG918 03-02-2015, 12:01 AM Hopefully every passenger on that flight got a sizable ($500+) voucher for that experience.
Filthy 03-02-2015, 10:09 AM They picked up the story, on "Good Morning America." With this kind of national coverage, I guess I don't feel so bad about trying to start the negotiation process with AA on some kind of compensation.
American Airlines Flight Delayed 9 Hours by Heavy Snow, Mechanical Problem - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/american-airlines-flight-delayed-hours-heavy-snow-mechanical/story?id=29289641)
adaniel 03-02-2015, 11:04 AM Sorry to hear what you had to go through. I made a decision to NEVER fly American into any sort of large market after dealing with them at O'Hare. I would love for nothing more than to be completely free of the chains of this airline but I've got too many friends and family members live in podunk cities that are only serviced by American Eagle...sigh.
Also, AA will cancel half their flights if as so much a snow flake falls. The snow here was not THAT bad even by low Texas standards, and SWA at Love Field had minimal cancellations this weekend. The news did a screen shot of both airports arrival/departure screens and it was almost comical what a ****show the DFW screen was.
AA is not the same airline that it was ever since it absorbed the sucktitude of USAir and I don't see it getting better. My advice? Get your credit from AA and put it on eBay. Then start taking the non-stop United flight from OKC to Newark and take the 35 minute train ride to Penn Station. I did this at least 4 times when I was in OKC and it was always a breeze.
PhiAlpha 03-02-2015, 12:54 PM Sorry to hear what you had to go through. I made a decision to NEVER fly American into any sort of large market after dealing with them at O'Hare. I would love for nothing more than to be completely free of the chains of this airline but I've got too many friends and family members live in podunk cities that are only serviced by American Eagle...sigh.
Also, AA will cancel half their flights if as so much a snow flake falls. The snow here was not THAT bad even by low Texas standards, and SWA at Love Field had minimal cancellations this weekend. The news did a screen shot of both airports arrival/departure screens and it was almost comical what a ****show the DFW screen was.
AA is not the same airline that it was ever since it absorbed the sucktitude of USAir and I don't see it getting better. My advice? Get your credit from AA and put it on eBay. Then start taking the non-stop United flight from OKC to Newark and take the 35 minute train ride to Penn Station. I did this at least 4 times when I was in OKC and it was always a breeze.
After several subpar experience with both American and DFW, as well as stories like last weekends... I'm SWA all the way. Like any other airline, Southwest has it's flaws or disadvantages (limited international flights and trips into smaller airports among them) but I flew with them about 40 times last year and and never had a remotely bad experience. Aside from minor delays due to weather, I had one 3 hour delay at Will Rogers due to a mechanical issue and was given a $200 flight voucher before setting foot on the plane, which more than made up for the inconvenience. Also had a two late bags, one of which was my fault, but was given a $50 voucher in both cases.
I passionately hate DFW, especially when compared to Love Field. It's sometimes unavoidable, but I can't stand that place. And I know they're working on renovations, but overall that place is a dump. Also, it's more of an annoyance than real inconvenience but it seems like DFW has the longest taxiing time from gate to take off or from landing to the gates of any airport I've ever been through. Maybe it's just the routes I fly out or the smaller aircraft, but it seems like you spent forever taxiing.
Filthy 03-02-2015, 03:53 PM Start taking the non-stop United flight from OKC to Newark and take the 35 minute train ride to Penn Station. I did this at least 4 times when I was in OKC and it was always a breeze.
This has been recommended to me before. I am not opposed to flying into Newark...and have a few times before, but most of my business is in Brooklyn. So because of that it is so much easier to fly into LaGuardia or JFK and stay in that area as well.. Therefore, I have to weigh my options and pick the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, its a tough pick...having to fight the traffic driving from Brooklyn thru Manhattan to get to the Newark airport for a straight thru return flight... or deal with a typical 1-2 hour layover in Dallas...but not spend that same 2 hours, driving, riding, whether it be uber, taxi, subway or NJ transit getting from Brooklyn to Newark. I'm damned if I do...and damned if I don't.
no1cub17 03-03-2015, 12:17 AM AA is not the same airline that it was ever since it absorbed the sucktitude of USAir and I don't see it getting better. My advice? Get your credit from AA and put it on eBay. Then start taking the non-stop United flight from OKC to Newark and take the 35 minute train ride to Penn Station. I did this at least 4 times when I was in OKC and it was always a breeze.
Ain't that the truth. It's really sad what LCC Dougie and co have done to what was a halfway decent airline. Their generous FFP is the only thing that keeps me loyal. I'm sure more "enhancements" are coming as the merger progresses though, and that'll be the end for me.
I'll second the thoughts above about AA's horrible ground ops at their hubs. Can't remember how many times we've sat waiting for a gate at ORD, only to watch my connecting flight push back early. Or how many times we've had 1 hour layovers at DFW and our bags don't make it. I divorced myself from Delta a few years ago, but last time we flew them, our bags managed to make a 20 minute connection. That would never happen on the new AA.
ljbab728 03-03-2015, 01:10 AM Or how many times we've had 1 hour layovers at DFW and our bags don't make it. I divorced myself from Delta a few years ago, but last time we flew them, our bags managed to make a 20 minute connection. That would never happen on the new AA.
The last time I was on AA through DFW I had about 10 minutes to make my connection because my flight was late. I did it with no problem. Besides changing terminals and getting to my connecting gate about one minute before the scheduled departure, AA decided to delay the connecting flight a few minutes to accommodate late passengers and my bag made it too. Every airline has issues at times but I certainly wouldn't single out AA as being particularly bad.
adaniel 03-03-2015, 01:23 PM This has been recommended to me before. I am not opposed to flying into Newark...and have a few times before, but most of my business is in Brooklyn. So because of that it is so much easier to fly into LaGuardia or JFK and stay in that area as well.. Therefore, I have to weigh my options and pick the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, its a tough pick...having to fight the traffic driving from Brooklyn thru Manhattan to get to the Newark airport for a straight thru return flight... or deal with a typical 1-2 hour layover in Dallas...but not spend that same 2 hours, driving, riding, whether it be uber, taxi, subway or NJ transit getting from Brooklyn to Newark. I'm damned if I do...and damned if I don't.
Yeah that would be tough. My friends up there live in Manhattan or Brooklyn Heights so a Penn is not a big deal at least by their standards. You could always changes trains and get on PATH to the WTC and take a taxi over one of the bridges to BK, but that's a lot of switching.
I probably shouldn't have used the term "breeze." I agree with you that absolutely nothing about travelling in that area is easy. Kinda crazy that the vast majority of NYC and Long Island, around 10 million people, are only connected to the US mainland by 2 rail tunnels, two rickety auto tunnels, and two decaying bridges.
I passionately hate DFW, especially when compared to Love Field. It's sometimes unavoidable, but I can't stand that place. And I know they're working on renovations, but overall that place is a dump. Also, it's more of an annoyance than real inconvenience but it seems like DFW has the longest taxiing time from gate to take off or from landing to the gates of any airport I've ever been through. Maybe it's just the routes I fly out or the smaller aircraft, but it seems like you spent forever taxiing.
Love Field is gorgeous these days...like walking into a museum. I remember as recently as 2012 Love was falling apart and smelled like a leaky sewer line had busted. I am a bit upset that Delta has been bumped from DAL for Virgin, but the politics around air travel here are kooky to say the least.
IMO DFW is too big geographically to manage effectively at this point. I hate to say this but I wouldn't recommend anyone from OKC connect there. With the Wright Amendment dropped it will be interesting to see how both DFW and DAL perform in the future.
no1cub17 03-03-2015, 07:12 PM IMO DFW is too big geographically to manage effectively at this point. I hate to say this but I wouldn't recommend anyone from OKC connect there. With the Wright Amendment dropped it will be interesting to see how both DFW and DAL perform in the future.
Meh I don't know if I agree. The geography should help more than anything - DFW has so much more space, more ramp space, more taxiways, more runways, and a ton of gates. If AA wasn't so incompetent at times it wouldn't be as big an issue.
DAL will never touch DFW in terms of connectivity and destinations offered - not even close. True the WA went away but I'm pretty sure that a condition of that was limiting DAL to 20 gates, down from over 30 I believe.
Snowman 03-03-2015, 07:20 PM Meh I don't know if I agree. The geography should help more than anything - DFW has so much more space, more ramp space, more taxiways, more runways, and a ton of gates. If AA wasn't so incompetent at times it wouldn't be as big an issue ...
Once any system like that though gets backed up, it is tough to clear (especially at reduced capacity), made worse by the Hub & Spoke model tends to cluster arrivals/departs so they can route connections.
gopokes88 03-03-2015, 11:37 PM Meh I don't know if I agree. The geography should help more than anything - DFW has so much more space, more ramp space, more taxiways, more runways, and a ton of gates. If AA wasn't so incompetent at times it wouldn't be as big an issue.
DAL will never touch DFW in terms of connectivity and destinations offered - not even close. True the WA went away but I'm pretty sure that a condition of that was limiting DAL to 20 gates, down from over 30 I believe.
+ no international travel. SW is having to use Houston as its carribbean hub.
damonsmuz 03-05-2015, 05:41 AM It's official. We have 2 years left to enjoy the AA Mad Dogs
MD-80s to be gone from American Airlines fleet by end of 2017 | Dallas Morning News (http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/md-80s-to-be-gone-from-american-airlines-fleet-by-end-of-2017.html/)
brianinok 03-05-2015, 08:40 AM They're old and they need to go. But I am going to miss the 2x3 configuration. I wish the 717 had been more popular and was more prevalent for domestic flying than it is.
OUman 03-05-2015, 11:43 AM Having connected at DFW numerous times now, I can honestly say it's a ton better than it was back in the day (pre-2005 to be exact). That's before the new Terminal D and the Skylink were both built.
The taxi times can be either short or long, but DFW is big and big airports almost always have long taxi times. Nothing you can do about that. Either you have a hub with plenty of runways (less congstion) or you have a hub airport that is bursting at the seams (Heathrow).
To say it's a "dump" is rather harsh. Go to Paris Charles de Gaulle, which truly is a dump. Makes DFW's terminals look way better. Not to mention the "airport tour" you get when you arrive on an international flight (not that I mind since I am an aviation enthusiast, but most people are not fans of that place to say the least).
If you give yourself enough time and fly when the weather's not an issue, DFW wins in my books anyway. I do like DAL though. I liked it before the new terminal was built, but it's even better now.
gopokes88 03-05-2015, 11:58 AM Having connected at DFW numerous times now, I can honestly say it's a ton better than it was back in the day (pre-2005 to be exact). That's before the new Terminal D and the Skylink were both built.
The taxi times can be either short or long, but DFW is big and big airports almost always have long taxi times. Nothing you can do about that. Either you have a hub with plenty of runways (less congstion) or you have a hub airport that is bursting at the seams (Heathrow).
To say it's a "dump" is rather harsh. Go to Paris Charles de Gaulle, which truly is a dump. Makes DFW's terminals look way better. Not to mention the "airport tour" you get when you arrive on an international flight (not that I mind since I am an aviation enthusiast, but most people are not fans of that place to say the least).
If you give yourself enough time and fly when the weather's not an issue, DFW wins in my books anyway. I do like DAL though. I liked it before the new terminal was built, but it's even better now.
Plus it has one of these.
Dallas Fort Worth (DFW) | The CENTURION(sm) Lounge (http://thecenturionlounge.com/location/DFW)
brianinok 03-05-2015, 04:26 PM DFW is a huge hub airport. Any huge hub airport in inclement weather is going to have delay and cancellation issues.
DAL is not a huge hub airport. It does not have that many more gates than OKC. Though it is busier than OKC, DAL simply cannot be compared to DFW when bad weather (or marginally bad weather) strikes.
Really, DFW probably should not even be compared to northern huge hubs because those airports should have their act together even more. ORD, DEN, MSP, etc. should be able to handle snow and ice better than DFW, ATL, CLT, etc. because these hub airports do not consistently (weekly, often, whatever....) during the winter get that type of weather and aren't as prepared as northern hubs.
Just like cities that maintain roads in the south (OKC, DFW, etc.) do an okay job of plowing and sanding after snow and ice, they cannot compare to the preparedness of cities in the north. Northern cities plow and sand even minor and neighborhood roads. Southern cities just do not have the equipment for that.
venture 03-05-2015, 04:39 PM Just like cities that maintain roads in the south (OKC, DFW, etc.) do an okay job of plowing and sanding after snow and ice, they cannot compare to the preparedness of cities in the north. Northern cities plow and sand even minor and neighborhood roads. Southern cities just do not have the equipment for that.
Well...plow and salt. :) Might just be where I grew up though, but they never used sand.
adaniel 03-05-2015, 05:18 PM Seems like I was misunderstood. I did not mean to suggest to connect in DAL over DFW (although if you can then go for it). But way too many people in OKC have a mind block that DFW is the hub they can use. Depending on where you are going in the country there are much better IMO.
At one point I was using DIA and ATL quite a bit and it blew me away how much smoother these airports ran compared to DFW.
ljbab728 03-05-2015, 11:19 PM + no international travel. SW is having to use Houston as its carribbean hub.
WN is also using Atlanta for international flights.
venture 03-06-2015, 01:44 AM WN is also using Atlanta for international flights.
They are going to have around 10-15 gateway cities for international. They also currently have international flying from SAT, AUS, SNA, DEN, BWI, MDW, MKE, and MCO.
s00nr1 03-06-2015, 04:31 PM At one point I was using DIA and ATL quite a bit and it blew me away how much smoother these airports ran compared to DFW.
ATL better than DFW?? Oh boy do we differ in opinion there. I avoid ATL whenever possible.
ljbab728 03-06-2015, 11:08 PM They are going to have around 10-15 gateway cities for international. They also currently have international flying from SAT, AUS, SNA, DEN, BWI, MDW, MKE, and MCO.
True, I was just making a point that HOU was not particularly "it's hub for international travel". There are more international destinations from ATL than from HOU.
damonsmuz 03-08-2015, 09:14 AM Anyone have an idea once AA phases out the Mad Dogs what aircraft type will take us to DFW? Are we a 737 station or an A319 station or a mix of both and RJs?
venture 03-08-2015, 09:19 AM Anyone have an idea once AA phases out the Mad Dogs what aircraft type will take us to DFW? Are we a 737 station or an A319 station or a mix of both and RJs?
They are shopping around right now for the lower end mainline aircraft, so which ever they pick is what we'll get. I wouldn't be shocked if we went all RJ, but we could end up more like what DL to ATL is/was with a mix of various a/c types.
damonsmuz 03-08-2015, 02:36 PM Venture: How much more "lower end" is there for a mainline aircraft than the A319? Flown in them..they may smell fresh but the seats are firm and the legroom is tight.
venture 03-08-2015, 04:15 PM Venture: How much more "lower end" is there for a mainline aircraft than the A319? Flown in them..they may smell fresh but the seats are firm and the legroom is tight.
There is a rumor they may get the CS 300s. Don't forget the ERJ 190s are mainline as well (from USAir).
Bunty 03-14-2015, 02:57 PM Turning to a different subject, here's an interesting development in Stillwater's continuing efforts in trying to get airline service. Two million is surely a lot of money toward realizing that goal.
Oklahoma State pledges $2M to bring air service to Stillwater - Stillwater News Press: News (http://www.stwnewspress.com/news/oklahoma-state-pledges-m-to-bring-air-service-to-stillwater/article_77f561d2-ca08-11e4-b396-0f01f80f6cdb.html)
damonsmuz 03-14-2015, 04:04 PM I understand the desire for OSU to want an airline in the city. It probably makes the town seem less far away for parents knowing that they don't have to fly and then drive an hour to see their kid. But me thinks that the likelihood SWO gets any air service is very small. How many flights a day are they wanting? 1 flight? 2 flights?
Bunty 03-14-2015, 05:54 PM I understand the desire for OSU to want an airline in the city. It probably makes the town seem less far away for parents knowing that they don't have to fly and then drive an hour to see their kid. But me thinks that the likelihood SWO gets any air service is very small. How many flights a day are they wanting? 1 flight? 2 flights?
I don't know. Though somewhat too big with other more favorable circumstances to be directly comparable to Stillwater, Manhattan, Kansas has airline service to Dallas and Chicago, which has been doing so good that it has managed to increase the number of passengers it boards every year for quite some time. Hopefully, there is some other town or two, more comparable to Stillwater doing well with its airline service.
Stillwater could draw air passengers from surrounding towns, most noteworthy, Enid and Ponca City. If people from there could park for free at the Stillwater airport, that could offset the higher ticket prices to Dallas along with a small savings on gas and driving time. Of course, someone may want to point out that support from nearby towns must not have showed up enough when Enid and Ponca City formerly had airline service.
Snowman 03-14-2015, 06:34 PM I don't know. Though somewhat too big with other more favorable circumstances to be directly comparable to Stillwater, Manhattan, Kansas has airline service to Dallas and Chicago, which has been doing so good that it has managed to increase the number of passengers it boards every year for quite some time. Hopefully, there is some other town or two, more comparable to Stillwater doing well with its airline service.
Stillwater could draw air passengers from surrounding towns, most noteworthy, Enid and Ponca City. If people from there could park for free at the Stillwater airport, that could offset the higher ticket prices to Dallas along with a small savings on gas and driving time. Of course, someone may want to point out that support from nearby towns must not have showed up enough when Enid and Ponca City formerly had airline service.
The tough thing about pickup travelers for Stillwater/Enid/Ponca City from any of the others, is that they are just far enough when any of them have regular service to a hub that for the others there is really little time/distance saved verses traveling to airports at OKC, Tulsa, or Wichita.
bradh 03-14-2015, 07:47 PM Manhattan also has Fort Riley to help with traffic.
venture 03-14-2015, 10:43 PM Manhattan pretty much plateaued in 2012 and has remained at the same level since. However, that is overall. American's traffic has actually been declining since 2012.
RITA | BTS | Transtats (http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=MHK&Airport_Name=Manhattan/Ft.%20Riley,%20KS:%20Manhattan%20Regional&carrier=FACTS)
Based on people I'm talking to who are very well connected with in American, SWO probably needs to hit $3.5 to 4 million to make it happen since it is an unproven market. There is going to be a significant concern by American that it is going to be competing against itself at TUL and OKC.
It is somewhat like why Youngstown was told off by United after offering them $2-3 million to start service last year. United is perfectly happy serving Youngstown through Cleveland and has no desire to add them even with the money. I just don't see Vance AFB & Enid offering a similar draw that Fort Riley does to Manhattan...or Fort Sill does for Lawton for that matter.
gopokes88 03-15-2015, 02:46 PM How is WRWA doing so far this year?
NWOKCGuy 03-25-2015, 11:31 AM Not OKC specific but I thought this was an interesting read on airport codes.
Why New Orleans' airport is MSY ? and other airport code mysteries, explained - Vox (http://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8284391/airport-codes)
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