^

Thanks for that.

Denver has about 15,000 units completed, under construction or proposed.

OKC has about 5,200.

Considering the Denver MSA is only about double our size, it goes to show that we should be able to support much more in the way of downtown housing.

Keep in mind Denver's population density is also quit a bit higher than OKC as well. Metro population alone is likely less of a factor in absorption rates than density.

Hope this is an appropriate question for this thread (if not I will make a separate one).

Can any of you experienced OKC/DEN people describe how to deal with the sticker shock of real estate in Denver right now? It seems like all the new construction there is very high end. Do they not have any incentives to build any Ideal Homes or Home Creations type neighborhoods?

Do they not have any incentives to build any Ideal Homes or Home Creations type neighborhoods?

I don't think they need to be that cheap as Denver is very desirable.

Hope this is an appropriate question for this thread (if not I will make a separate one).

Can any of you experienced OKC/DEN people describe how to deal with the sticker shock of real estate in Denver right now? It seems like all the new construction there is very high end. Do they not have any incentives to build any Ideal Homes or Home Creations type neighborhoods?


There are several issues at play. Quick points:

1. Supply is tight and demand is high, driving up prices all across the metro. It is really hard to find anything decent for under $300k anywhere in the area.

2. From speaking to builders (I just built new construction north of town), the costs are marginal for the builder to construct a 1,200 sq/ft home vs a 2,000 sq/ft home so they are choosing the latter for the higher profit margins.

3. Water rights. Builders must pay for water rights in most locations, potentially driving up prices another $20k+.

4. Construction defect laws. The state has strict laws favoring the consumer, which has effectively eliminated condo construction as developers don't want to take on the litigation risks. Instead they are building apartments by the thousands.

I'm not sure how it will all play out, but I can say I wouldn't be moving here at this time. I love Denver, but the home prices just aren't worth it IMO.

List of projects currently under construction (>10 floors)

1144 15th St. - 40F – Office
The Confluence - 34F- Residential
Country Club Tower Building 1 - 31F – Residential
Country Club Tower Building 2 - 31F – Residential
999 17th (1776 Curtis) – 28F – Residential
Skyhouse – 25F – Residential
1709 Chestnut Building 1 -23F – Residential
1709 Chestnut Building 2 -12F – Residential
1401 Lawrence - 22F – Office
AC/Le Meridien – 21F – Hotel
Eviva Cherokee – 18F - Residential
Colorado Center Tower 3 – 15F – Office
One Belleview Station – 16F – Office
Pivot Building 1 – 13F – Residential
Pivot Building 2 – 13F – Residential
Pivot Building 3 – 13F – Residential
Union Tower West – 12F –Office/Hotel
Alexan Uptown – 13F – Residential
Hotel Born – 12F – Hotel
Coda Cherry Creek – 12F – Residential
Source Hotel – 10F - Hotel

Regarding Denver and housing prices, it is largely a function of supply and demand. Denver is one of the fastest growing metros in the country and still has a robust job market despite O&G falling off (not a huge percentage of the overall job market unlike OKC or Houston). Supply is practically non-existent due to construction not keeping up with demand and associated rising prices keeping people from selling homes. Like DenverPoke mentioned there is little incentive to build lower priced housing when you can make more money with the high end market.

Denver doesn't have a massive sprawl engine that cranks out thousands of low priced homes. There is sprawl but open space restrictions and water rights work to prevent a massive amount of new development on the fringes. Though there is a new 12,000 home development called Sterling Ranch that is getting started on the SW side of the metro, but it took a decade for it to get approved. Infill development is huge in Denver and will continue as long as people keep moving to the city.

Great aerial from Union Station looking east towards downtown.
(photo courtesy of Ryan Dravitz Photography)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1502/24623386432_f6305d2abd_b.jpg

Who knows if/when this happens, but it would be transformational for downtown if gets built anything close to the conceptual design.

City proposes a massive overhaul to Denver Performing Arts Complex - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_29557973/city-proposes-massive-overhaul-denver-performing-arts-complex)

https://mediacenter.smugmug.com/2015-02-24-Denver-Art/i-ShsT53K/0/XL/DPAC1-XL.jpg

I'm considering a move to Denver early next year. I've read through most of this thread and to no surprise, Denver is busy. Real estate pricing isn't too much of a concern as I don't plan on buying.

I know of LODO, but where are the places like the Plaza, Paseo, Film Row, Midtown, at in Denver? I'm trying to familiarize myself with the area as I have only taken a few trips up there. I will most likely take another trip in November.

I am paying $1,200 a month for a 1 bed/1 bath, 720 sq. ft. in a 20 year old apartment complex on the very edge of Denver north of Aurora. (Green Valley Ranch Blvd. / Memphis Ave) The units are pretty nice and private, and we like the layout and the location is perfect for us at is a 10 minute drive to the airport for work. (We both work at the airport).

It's very expensive, and only climbing. I have been here since May, so have no idea on where the local hip neighborhoods are. The rent budget will need to be closing in on or greater than $2,000 a month to live in those areas comfortably. We did the studio/small complex thing in Portland and we absolutely hated it. Different strokes for different blokes, so sacrificing space for location may be something you would be okay with. We decided we would rather have more space and live further out. We are close to the rail line if we want to go downtown, it's a 20 minute ride on the A line.

Let me know when you come up here, if you want to grab a drink or something. Good to hang out with fellow Okie's when out of state.

I know of LODO, but where are the places like the Plaza, Paseo, Film Row, Midtown, at in Denver? I'm trying to familiarize myself with the area

Lodo is like Bricktown but much larger and more mixed-use. It is where the largest concentration of bars and clubs are; lots of sports bars several with rooftop patios and a young crowd.

My favorite area downtown is Union Station where the A line from the airport terminates. It's the hub for all trains and buses. The old station has restaurants and a cool bar, and the plaza area outside is always lively. The neighborhood behind the station is building up (after being literally just vacant land 5 years ago) and a fun walk is to go west from the station down 16th, over the bridge to Riverfront Park. You can then walk over the river to Lower Highland...

Lower Highland is probably most similar to Midtown in OKC but also very different. Lots of restaurants and a few bars and lots of new housing. It sits on hill so it has amazing views of the skyline, and many of the restaurants have patio views. The "Highlands" or NW Denver have two other commercial districts: Highland Square at 32nd & Lowell and Tennyson at 38th & Tennyson. The largest amount of good restaurants in the city outside of downtown are located in the " Highlands".

The most similar to Paseo would probably be Santa Fe Arts District along Santa Fe Dr south of downtown. There is nothing in OKC similar to River North (Rino) which is an industrial area north of downtown. It has been rapidly redeveloping and has great restaurants and lots of art galleries, also lots of breweries. Epic is one of my favorites. The Source is a cool urban market to check out on Brighton; there is a sour brewery inside that is fantastic called Crooked Stave.

One of the other areas to check out is Cherry Creek southeast of downtown. There is the mall there, the biggest and nicest in Colorado, but the area to the north is where you can walk around in a downtown-like environment with lots of stores and restaurants. It is also going through a building boom and adding lots of density. Cherry Creek is also near Washington Park which is one of Denver's most popular and surrounded by nice tree-lined neighborhoods with tons of new infill.

Outside of Denver, Boulder is a cool college town with lots to do and Golden has an interesting old downtown. Both are 25-30 min from downtown Denver.

I am paying $1,200 a month for a 1 bed/1 bath, 720 sq. ft. in a 20 year old apartment complex on the very edge of Denver north of Aurora. (Green Valley Ranch Blvd. / Memphis Ave)

Hey that's basically what my friend will pay for a unit at the Metro here!

Hey that's basically what my friend will pay for a unit at the Metro here!

So jealous of OKC. If only we hadn't have been laid off. Could live very comfortably in the area of the city with the most urban amenities and still an easy drive to anywhere in town. And have the money to actually go out and enjoy the city! Oh well!

I lived in Golden for several years back in the late 90s. It is a cool walkable town close to Denver. I don't know how far away you want to live from Denver proper or want to stay in the city, rent at the time was pretty decent but don't quote me on that since that was 20 odd years ago. Golden also has a college as well, although it is more of a technical specialty college, however still a lot of young people there, and Woody's pizza was a favorite hang out for really good true wood fired pizza and great local beers on tap. Plus Golden has one of the best breweries in Colorado - Golden City Brewery. Try a Barley Ale, but don't plan on going anywhere after.

I'm considering a move to Denver early next year. I've read through most of this thread and to no surprise, Denver is busy. Real estate pricing isn't too much of a concern as I don't plan on buying.

I know of LODO, but where are the places like the Plaza, Paseo, Film Row, Midtown, at in Denver? I'm trying to familiarize myself with the area as I have only taken a few trips up there. I will most likely take another trip in November.

BG918 is pretty spot on about the 'hoods. Denver is a nice city but be prepared to pay a lot and spend a lot of time in traffic. My wife grew up in Chicago and she says Denver is becoming more and more like a small Chicago everyday. IMO if you aren't a huge fan of the outdoors it isn't worth the COL, but to each their own.

I lived in Golden for several years back in the late 90s. It is a cool walkable town close to Denver. I don't know how far away you want to live from Denver proper or want to stay in the city, rent at the time was pretty decent but don't quote me on that since that was 20 odd years ago. Golden also has a college as well, although it is more of a technical specialty college, however still a lot of young people there, and Woody's pizza was a favorite hang out for really good true wood fired pizza and great local beers on tap. Plus Golden has one of the best breweries in Colorado - Golden City Brewery. Try a Barley Ale, but don't plan on going anywhere after.

Golden has changed a lot but is definitely one of my favorite places in the metro. If only I could afford to live there. :-) Golden City is probably the 3rd or 4th best brewery in Golden these days but they still make a few good brews. The number of breweries in the Denver area is staggering.

Not a ton of large scale new developments have been announced lately, mainly some pretty cool infill projects. I will post some updates later, but I thought this picture was sweet. Still hard to believe virtually nothing existed in the Union Station neighborhood 5-7 years ago.

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/2016-10-02_16-Chestnut-01-1024x682.jpg

I saw an article about Daddy Bruce pop up on my FB feed and was wondering if they still make his BBQ sauce for retail sale? I am flying through Denver in a month and might look for it in DIA if they did.

I saw an article about Daddy Bruce pop up on my FB feed and was wondering if they still make his BBQ sauce for retail sale? I am flying through Denver in a month and might look for it in DIA if they did.

I'm pretty certain they no longer make it, they closed up shop in Boulder several years ago. There is a New Belgium bar/restaurant at DIA, if you need a beer fix. :Smiley051

There is a New Belgium bar/restaurant at DIA, if you need a beer fix. :Smiley051
Already on my itinerary! Thanks!

Nice view of 3 buildings currently under construction, from left to right the 20-story LeMeridian/AC Hotel, 40-story 1144 15th Street, and 34-story The Confluence.

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2016-11-17_LeMeridien-06-1024x683.jpg

Probably about 30 -35 cranes up in downtown and Cherry Creek, pretty awesome to see the city changing so fast.

We live out between Aurora and Centennial in unincorporated Arapahoe County, way out from our jobs in LoDo and Capitol Hill. We bought our house (built in 1999) in January 2013 for $230,000 and similar ones in our neighborhood are around $300K now. Our mortgage, insurance and tax payment is less than 1 bedroom apartment rent in our area. We are looking off and on for acreage further out near The Pinery to Elizabeth to build a house.

So I am planning on going to Denver in June or July for a week. Will probably be staying in The Sheraton Denver West (Used to work there) or Table Mountain Inn (Have always wanted to stay there) and am doing a preliminary "Things to do in Denver when your Dead" checklist. https://foursquare.com/jaredthevegan/list/things-to-do-in-denver-when-your-dead If you have any other suggestions please let me know.

(Photo courtesy of Ryan Dravitz Photography).

13594

Nice panorama of some of the construction going on downtown. I will try to do some updates this week of some new projects under construction and proposed.

Good grief, look at all those cranes. I worked in Dallas a few years back and that makes Uptown construction look pretty paltry.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2871/34085098865_2a20f27174_h.jpg

Good grief, look at all those cranes. I worked in Dallas a few years back and that makes Uptown construction look pretty paltry.

Interesting.

Dallas' core has no less than 22 tower cranes. More will arrive this month.

Dallas outside its core, including its suburbs, have 33 tower cranes.

Good grief, look at all those cranes. I worked in Dallas a few years back and that makes Uptown construction look pretty paltry.
You are completely off base with that comment. Denver has nowhere near the amount of tower cranes that Dallas has in and around its core let alone the metro.

You are completely off base with that comment. Denver has nowhere near the amount of tower cranes that Dallas has in and around its core let alone the metro.

Consider I'm referencing a period around 2010-2011. At this point there was virtually no construction in the central business district outside of the tower at Routh & Ross. The Driving Range @ East Village had just closed and the nets were just removed. This was a completely different time for Dallas, the beginning of the boom so to speak. Most all of the high rise construction near in at that time was in Victory Park & the area immediately surrounding The Crescent.

Like I said, it was a different time.

Interesting.

Dallas' core has no less than 22 tower cranes. More will arrive this month.

Dallas outside its core, including its suburbs, have 33 tower cranes.

There are currently 20 tower cranes up in Denver's downtown core and adjacent neighborhoods, including one that is over 600 ft tall (at 1144 15th St). There will be two more going up in the next couple months for two Union Station projects, the area with the highest current number of cranes at 5 in a six block radius. One will be coming down at 999 17th later this spring and I believe a couple others at apartment projects in the Highlands. There are another 6 in the Cherry Creek area a couple miles from downtown including one that is over 400 ft tall for twin 30 story apartment towers (Country Club Towers). The Denver Tech Center has 4 or 5 up right now for mostly office buildings.

Yes, Denver is doing just fine for a city its size. If/when some of the proposed projects in RiNo get going it will be quite a site to see all the cranes rising in that area.

Yes, Denver is doing just fine for a city its size. If/when some of the proposed projects in RiNo get going it will be quite a site to see all the cranes rising in that area.

That will be quite the transformed area in the next 2-3 years. The biggest changes will be on Brighton Blvd where the street itself is being completely rebuilt with wide sidewalks (the street has never had continuous sidewalks), a landscaped median and protected bike lanes. Over a dozen new projects including apartments, office buildings, a new grocery store and retail are either under construction or planned.

And then there's the area around the new 38th & Blake Rail Station that has several large development proposals that will be kicking off as well as redevelopment of the old buildings along Walnut and Larimer. Some of the best new restaurants in the city are located in this area which still has an industrial/artsy feel to it even with all the new stuff.

Someday in the near future you'll be able to get off the train from the airport at 38th & Blake and access this area. You can do that now but there's mostly just empty lots around the station and the walkability is terrible, but they are working on that.

Almost every medium to large sized US city is experiencing a major or decent sized boom right now. Even Detroit and St. Louis which I hate both of those cities are doing pretty good.

https://www.construction.com/sites/default/files/newsroom/construction-starts-top-20-metro-areas.jpg

March housing numbers for single family: Avg sale price $488k, median $420k.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/04/metro-denvers-average-home-sale-price-april-2017/

what is amazing to me is that with all tbe construction in downtown and Cherry Creek, virtually none of it is condo development. Colorado has a very restrictive law that makes it easy for condo homeowners to sue the builder. Conequentially, virtually no condos being built. The law has just been, or is about to be changed due to the lack of affordable housing, so if/ when it happens, I expect many more Denver projects.

It's totally insane. I'm trying to purchase a home next year, and will likely buy in Fort Morgan or Greeley. It will be about an hour or so drive to work, all highway.

Target finally opening a store downtown:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/16/target-downtown-denver-summer-2018/

Also, an image (courtesy of DenverInfill) of some of the construction in Cherry Creek. If you haven't been to this area in the last few years the change is pretty remarkable.

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2017-05-17_255_saint_paul-05-1200x558.jpg

I have a southern view of down town Denver out my office window. I noticed a few days ago that the western part - the part west of LODO has become an entirely new downtown. The renovation of lower LODO warehouses and Union Station are in the middle with high rise apartments on the west. With the change in laws regarding condos, construction could be refuelled soon.

One question I have is they are running out of developable space. Were does downtown go from here? Aurora?

I have a southern view of down town Denver out my office window. I noticed a few days ago that the western part - the part west of LODO has become an entirely new downtown. The renovation of lower LODO warehouses and Union Station are in the middle with high rise apartments on the west. With the change in laws regarding condos, construction could be refuelled soon.

One question I have is they are running out of developable space. Were does downtown go from here? Aurora?

Arapahoe Square and Golden Triangle still have a ton of vacant lots/under-developed land. RiverNorth is developing quickly but there is a lot of space for more density, including all of the empty lots used for Rockies parking. The CBD is far from built out as well.

Kroenke is planning to develop the lots around the Pepsi Center, probably mixed-used and that will be a huge development.

I wouldn't worry about running out of land to develop for many decades.

Potential new tallest proposed for Denver:

650 17th St - 74 stories, approximately 800'. 300 condos, retail, and boutique hotel:
http://www.denver-cityscape.com/images/650-17th-St_Rendering-52217.jpg

A Miami based developer is proposing twin 400' tall condo buildings with approximately 700 units at 19th and Arapahoe:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9JLsbOVoAAtcu4.png

Hines and a local developer are proposing a mixed-use project (potentially including a W Hotel) at 14th and Larimer:
https://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017-02-24_bell-park-mixed-use_update-1_0-1200x800.jpg

Denver Rock Drill redevelopment, to include 700,000 sq ft of office, retail, and hotel:
http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-04-03_denver-rock-drill-proposed-birdseye.jpg

World Trade Center Denver - $200 Million mixed-use to include hotel, office and retail:
http://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/binder3_page_2.jpg?w=1024&h=518

DriveTrain: Hotel, Office, and Retail in RiNo:
http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2016-05-31_drivetrain-mixed-use-rendering-0-1200x800.jpg

18th and Market Apartments by Trammel Crow, 11-story, 297 units:
http://www.denver-cityscape.com/images/1800Market-2717-2.jpg

8-story mixed use building at 14th and Wynkoop by Unico out of Seattle:
http://www.denver-cityscape.com/images/14Wynkoop-10616-2.jpg

12-story condo project at Sloan's Lake by Nava Real Estate:
https://i2.wp.com/www.denverrealestatewatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/LAKEHOUSE-2.png?fit=1024%2C826

SOVA Apartments by McWinney in Uptown, 12-story 211 units:

https://www.weitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2016.0224_19th-1400x800.jpg

16-story, 300 unit apartments with 12,000 sqft retail in Golden Triangle by Greystar:
http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2016-08-22_GreystarSpeerRendering-0.jpg

Country Club towers have topped out:
http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2017-05-14_country_club_towers_16.jpg

600 Park Avenue by Alsation out of Kansas City, 13-story, 238 units in Arapahoe Square:

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2017_03_09_600_park_avenue_rendering_03.jpg

The Laurel, 12-story condo building in Cherry Creek, by Pauls Corp:
https://cherrycreeknorth.com/_files/images/laurel.jpg

The HUB - office (to be leased by Home Advisor) and boutique hotel in RiverNorth:
http://www.denver-cityscape.com/images/HubDenver-72016-2.jpg

11-story hotel at 1600 Market by T2 Hospitality:
http://www.dlrgroup.com/media/731094/37-16213-00_marquee-01.jpg

DenverInfill is updating their semi-annual development summary:

http://denverinfill.com/blog/2017/06/downtown-non-residential-june-2017.html

http://denverinfill.com/blog/2017/06/downtown-residential-june-2017.html

A few highlights of the reports (within the 1.5 mile radius of a center-point (the D&F tower on 16th street)):

Since 2013, over 17,000 residential units have been completed or are under construction.

Since 2010, 128 buildings (over 4 floors) have been completed/under construction:
--63 buildings 4-5 floors
--28 buildings 6-9 floors
--26 buildings 10-19 floors
--8 buildings 20-29 floors
--3 buildings 30+ floors

Not bad!

With recent legislation and a court-ruling on construction defect laws, a condo boom could be in the works for the next few years. Hopefully Denver can get a few more new towers to help modernize the skyline.

Very interesting!

I'll have to try and assemble something for the same time period in OKC.

With recent legislation and a court-ruling on construction defect laws, a condo boom could be in the works for the next few years.

Can you expound on the legislation and court ruling tidbits?

Can you expound on the legislation and court ruling tidbits?

Basically the new HB 1279 and State Supreme Court rulings have made it more difficult for an HOA to sue the builder. The cost of insurance and potential threat of litigation slowed the construction of condos down to a crawl for several years. Here are a couple of articles if you are interested.

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2017/05/23/hickenlooper-signs-construction-defects-reform.html

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/05/colorado-supreme-court-construction-defects-battle/