Can you imagine what another Republic Gastropub would be like in this building ?

I think that would be awesome. The ability to have a relatively nice meal and then stick around and watch the game should have a lot of appeal to people working in downtown. Reminds of Chicago where the busiest place in the business district after work hours was a restaurant/bar that was pretty similiar to Republic.

I just don't think there's anything special about the bus station. Sure it would be an awesome venue for a restaurant. They could also tear it down and put in restaurant space in the parking garage and it would do just as well.

Remember, this is just the recommendation of City Staff. They also recommended Stage Center not be demolished and I believe that was the case for some or all of the SandRidge buildings. In all those cases, the Downtown Design Review Committee voted to approve demolitions and the Board of Adjustment denied the appeal of preservationists.

If anything, I'm a bit shocked they are only recommending saving the one building. In effect, they are green-lighting the demolition of 8 historic buildings. That's completely unprecedented since the crazy clearings of the 60's and 70's.

Not trying to save the old Hotel Black is particularly puzzling. It was in active and pretty full use before the current owners bought it and systematically drove out tenants. How on earth then is it 'functionally obsolete', which is a weak argument to begin with?

functionally obsolete - I have people who want to go into what I plan to build, not what is already there.

There's a cool work of the bus station on display in the myriad gardens lobby right now. It's my favorite building on the block. Nothing else like it in the city:

http://photos-h.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t51.2885-15/10864929_905890252756127_1553229287_n.jpg

From https://twitter.com/shanehamp:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67tzxNCMAAjoft.jpg:large

From https://twitter.com/shanehamp:

Blue buildings still exist; red slated for demolition:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67tzxNCMAAjoft.jpg

I

…

I…uh…

… … …

So you're…

… phew …

Wow…Just

…

wow.

It would be so easy to build the south parking garage over the bus station and keep it for retail. It would look great.

And no one in positions of power in OKC have learned one thing. OKC is the city with no past.

From https://twitter.com/shanehamp:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67tzxNCMAAjoft.jpg:large

Wow.

OKC wasn't always empty parking lots. If it's empty, it probably was something.

Guess we might as well finish it up nice and tidy.

Via la Super Block!!

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/shane1.jpg

I will take the after. As I would guess most of Okc

Eh, it's not that bad. A positive spin is that we're trying to show solidarity with the great European cities that were bombed out in WWII and had to rebuild everything.

What, that doesn't work for you? How about...we've decided that there wasn't much interest in the history of the area, so by getting rid of all of the old stuff and building anew, we're laying a foundation for the new history!

Still no? Erm...I've got it! The city fathers had visions of the buildings that would be built on these sites, so they intentionally built things there that weren't worth saving so it would be easier to get rid of the whole kit and kaboodle when the time came for the cool stuff!

Eh, maybe I'm bad at the whole pulling excuses out of my [synonym for donkey] thing. I'll just leave it to the people in charge of deciding what downtown should look like.

From https://twitter.com/shanehamp:

Wow...


I will take the after. As I would guess most of Okc
I don't know how to respond to this...words escape me...

I

…

I…uh…

… … …

So you're…

… phew …

Wow…Just

…

wow.

You said it...

I will take the after. As I would guess most of Okc

You tend to speak "for everyone".

I will take the after. As I would guess most of Okc

The problem is that we shouldn't have to accept the whole of one or the other.

Without question I'd in a heart beat trade the *@%*-hole that is the Sheraton/Century Center for literally just the Baum Building OR The Criterion. The great tragedy is that we had BOTH, and we traded BOTH for that horrible piece of *@%^ use of a block.

The Devon facility is amazing, and would be that much more amazing with those two as neighbors, and with the Hotel Biltmore as a neighbor, and…well, Hotel Black and the Motor Hotel.

Quite unfortunately, it's incredibly possible to keep the Hotel Black and the Motor Hotel…and the Bus station and STILL build this new tower (though perhaps the address would have to change…heaven forbid).

The Cox Center and CHK arena could have both gone other places, the Myriad Gardens probably should have fronted the train station. Continental and Renaissance…well there were clearly already parking lots that could have been gobbled up by these developments, and I notice throughout a variety of buildings that I ultimately don't think anyone here would have ever complained about their demolishing, maybe there those types of developments could have gone.

Like Pete said before, losing the preservation fight will set a standard in the community that unless you outright own the property, no amount of opposition from the public will hold up in the end. No more hopeful assumptions about what property owners might do or say they will do. After this block, what else is there worth fighting for? My first thought would be the International Harvester Building on SW 5th and Broadway. Like I mentioned on Twitter... https://twitter.com/unfrsakn/status/553626316168126465

Whoever has the money is the one who declares what matters in OKC.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to accept the whole of one or the other.

Without question I'd in a heart beat trade the *@%*-hole that is the Sheraton/Century Center for literally just the Baum Building OR The Criterion. The great tragedy is that we had BOTH, and we traded BOTH for that horrible piece of *@%^ use of a block.

The Devon facility is amazing, and would be that much more amazing with those two as neighbors, and with the Hotel Biltmore as a neighbor, and…well, Hotel Black and the Motor Hotel.

Quite unfortunately, it's incredibly possible to keep the Hotel Black and the Motor Hotel…and the Bus station and STILL build this new tower (though perhaps the address would have to change…heaven forbid).

The Cox Center and CHK arena could have both gone other places, the Myriad Gardens probably should have fronted the train station. Continental and Renaissance…well there were clearly already parking lots that could have been gobbled up by these developments, and I notice throughout a variety of buildings that I ultimately don't think anyone here would have ever complained about their demolishing, maybe there those types of developments could have gone.

People supposedly wanted to move the Baum Building but guess what? Money. Now no amount of money will ever bring any of it back.

man, what the ****.....

The photo really drives home the loss, but other areas of town are being preserved, Midtown, Auto Alley, Bricktown, FilmRow, so not all is lost.

Maybe someone can make a drive now to get the city council to create a citizen's committee to oversee the urban renewal of the Myriad CC site to ensure it is handled correctly. The committee could set clear guidelines for the developer and have approval of the plans. That way the developer has a clear indication of what will be acceptable before investing in the property.

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian here.

What large American city would you have an aerial shot from 1953 that would NOT be significantly different than what it is today?

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian here.

What large American city would you have an aerial shot from 1953 that would NOT be significantly different than what it is today?

And as awfully sad as that picture is how many of those were full of lead paint and asbestos?

Via la Super Block!!

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/shane1.jpgYeah, color me as someone who likes what we have now versus the 1953 version. I don't care how many buildings were torn down, I like the Myriad Gardens and the Devon Energy center.

I'm actually glad they tore all of that down and what we're about to get will make it even more worth it.

I can't help but wonder what that image would look like zoomed out a to pull in some surrounding districts. Downtown may be a nearly lost cause as far as preservation goes but there are plenty of other areas that aren't. I saw that go by on twitter the other day with people talking about this being a city with no history, and I think that is a very tunnel vision take on the situation.

I can't help but wonder what that image would look like zoomed out a to pull in some surrounding districts. Downtown may be a nearly lost cause as far as preservation goes but there are plenty of other areas that aren't. I saw that go by on twitter the other day with people talking about this being a city with no history, and I think that is a very tunnel vision take on the situation.

Yes, the SKY IN THE PIE (PEI) plan was a disaster. The leaders saw a lot of old warehouses and neglected buildings and wanted to get rid of them. Of course they ran out of money and it became one big parking lot. Such, is not the case here. The money is all their( except for the s. Side of Clayco
development).

We might get to save one building . :)

I can't help but wonder what that image would look like zoomed out a to pull in some surrounding districts. Downtown may be a nearly lost cause as far as preservation goes but there are plenty of other areas that aren't. I saw that go by on twitter the other day with people talking about this being a city with no history, and I think that is a very tunnel vision take on the situation.

That's definitely the worst area because it was the core of downtown and was almost 100% lost. But plenty of other entire neighborhoods/blocks are gone. There's a zoomed out version here: 60 Years of Urban Change: Oklahoma and Texas | The Institute for Quality Communities (http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/09/60years/)

There's this sudden urge to save what little is left of OKC's downtown history.

Why did you move the bus station to Reno & Eastern?

There were many structures we should have tried to save other than the bus station; this place was the pits. Did anyone try to save the old Burgundy Club (north) next to the bus station? Wilma (bartender) would be smiling if she were still alive. The Burgundy Club & the bus station went hand-in-hand.

Are there plans to make bus travel (city & Greyhound) a part of the future intermodal hub at old Santa Fe Station?

Point, there isn't anything left to save.

Here are the final revisions. This is from the final package that will be voted on by the DDRC on Jan. 15.

The retail space in the north garage would be increased from 2,099 square feet to 3,610 and in the west garage from 2,619 to 5,180:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinesrevised1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinesrevised2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinesrevised4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinesrevised3.jpg

There's this sudden urge to save what little is left of OKC's downtown history.

Why did you move the bus station to Reno & Eastern?

There were many structures we should have tried to save other than the bus station; this place was the pits. Did anyone try to save the old Burgundy Club (north) next to the bus station? Wilma (bartender) would be smiling if she were still alive. The Burgundy Club & the bus station went hand-in-hand.

Are there plans to make bus travel (city & Greyhound) a part of the future intermodal hub at old Santa Fe Station?

Point, there isn't anything left to save.

They moved the Greyhound bus station for the same reason COPTA was moved, undesirables! There, I said it. I know this is not "politically correct" but we all know it to be the truth. This plan was set in stage years ago.

I'm not sure if this was brought up already, if it was I apologize for being repetitive. But the City owns the parking lot south of their building do they not?

This is the same lot that is being incorporated into the larger parking garage, correct? If so, the group needs to purchase the parking lot from the city in order to make this design work...

So if the city really wants to play hardball and save the Bus Station or another building, they have the control to do so, only question is will they actually do it?

OKC ... play hardball .... riiight.

^

Yes, the City owns that surface lot and they've worked out a deal with Hines to sell it.

The City is not going to play hardball here. They never have before and the leadership seems to very much favor this type of economic development.


There will be all types of hand-wringing and furrowed brows by the committee on Thursday, then the demolitions will no doubt sail through, including the bus station.

I'm not sure if this was brought up already, if it was I apologize for being repetitive. But the City owns the parking lot south of their building do they not?

This is the same lot that is being incorporated into the larger parking garage, correct? If so, the group needs to purchase the parking lot from the city in order to make this design work...

So if the city really wants to play hardball and save the Bus Station or another building, they have the control to do so, only question is will they actually do it?

I would only expect relatively minor changes to be asked for before it gets approved, the most I hoping for at this point is at least getting retail/restaurant/office frontage on West side of the street level of the buildings.

That's definitely the worst area because it was the core of downtown and was almost 100% lost. But plenty of other entire neighborhoods/blocks are gone. There's a zoomed out version here: 60 Years of Urban Change: Oklahoma and Texas | The Institute for Quality Communities (http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/09/60years/)

Thanks for that link. Those maps are really cool with the sliders. Sad to see our historic downtown disappearing, but cool technology nevertheless.

I'm not in favor of this development as it is currently designed, but since it will probably be approved....is it possible to have those garage entrances onto Sheridan, Walker, Main, and Hudson moved to face the alleyway? That would help remove some conflict points and curb cuts that break-up sidewalks.

I agree with the above poster. Also, is it not possible for the city to just ask them to build the building on top of the gargage? This would take away from the parking garage look and they could incoprorate more retail around the new building. Imagine several shops lining the streets with perhaps some outdoor patio type stuff. This would give more street interaction and wouldn't be as sterile, and of course add a little bit more height to the building.

I've asked this before in the thread, but I'm genuinely curious:

How many of you have actually contacted city leadership to discuss your feelings about this project, rather than just complained about it here?

I've asked this before in the thread, but I'm genuinely curious:

How many of you have actually contacted city leadership to discuss your feelings about this project, rather than just complained about it here?

this is your #666 post... Bwa ha ha ha

Yeah I'm with KING183 on this one. A lot of complaining and suggestions going on but very few if any have put forth the time to get the ball rolling to make changes. Its a hard task building one office building let known four. It's even harder trying to get a company to see the bigger picture. It's impossible though to make changes without being active. Sitting behind a computer complaining without doing your part to change the process is easy. No skill in that at all. I like the project, but if you feel aggravated enough to keep posting about it then go through the process to change it. You might not win this battle but you keep trying until change is made for the better. OR just keep making idle rants about a topic for entertainment.

I saw several letters of protest and several signatures on Preservation Oklahoma's petition from people on this site.

Downtown OKC - Come and feel the blandness!

I've asked this before in the thread, but I'm genuinely curious:

How many of you have actually contacted city leadership to discuss your feelings about this project, rather than just complained about it here?

You'll find that a lot of people who care about the city's aesthetic, history, and urban future are pretty active about it. And there are definitely more of them that don't post on this site than do. There also seems to be a lot of them that actually interact with the downtown landscape on a daily basis. Of course, the majority sentiment will always be apathy.

I've written a couple emails, with no responses. I've also signed the petition, but noticed there weren't many signatures. I'm sure I could've done more, but really it feels like I'm pushing against a mountain hoping it will budge.

I've written a couple emails, with no responses. I've also signed the petition, but noticed there weren't many signatures. I'm sure I could've done more, but really it feels like I'm pushing against a mountain hoping it will budge.

Opposition to these projects won't mean a thing; it would be like a mosquito pushing a train. At best the DTR&DC will request a few modest changes.

I've written a couple emails, with no responses. I've also signed the petition, but noticed there weren't many signatures. I'm sure I could've done more, but really it feels like I'm pushing against a mountain hoping it will budge.

It is an exercise in vanity, but some of us still do it.

Oh well, the street life aesthetic on this side of town will be so boring, that maybe it will help keep it from competing against the renovated areas that are starting to take off.

Devon is ?encouraging? its employees to ?voluntarily? sign a petition in support of demolishing historic downtown buildings? | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2015/01/12/devon-is-encouraging-its-employees-to-sign-a-voluntary-petition-in-support-of-demolishing-historic-downtown-buildings/)

Devon is ?encouraging? its employees to ?voluntarily? sign a petition in support of demolishing historic downtown buildings? | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2015/01/12/devon-is-encouraging-its-employees-to-sign-a-voluntary-petition-in-support-of-demolishing-historic-downtown-buildings/)

Was just about to post this. Wow.

Good grief.

Reminder that Devon's Chairman Larry Nichols is also chair of the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority (OCURA) and the Alliance for Economic Development.

Nick Preftakes wrote a letter in support of the demolitions:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakesletter1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakesletter2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakesletter3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakesletter4.jpg

What a joke.

I hope the DDRC asks him why he paid such a large sum of money for properties that were in rough same when he clearly knew they needed money put into them to be usable again. Also, why he let the few that were usable sit and make him no money? It just sets a new precedent that you can buy a property, do the bare minimum and then claim they are unusable and destroy them to your liking. His letter is borderline fraud to me. I understand the principal of making money and needing to make the numbers work but you don't buy all these properties and then claim well the ends in the end it only makes me a little profit. Just fess up and admit you bought these for Devon will the intention of doing whatever they told him to. I'd like to see how much profit he made selling these to Hines or however the agreement works out.

I've asked this before in the thread, but I'm genuinely curious:

How many of you have actually contacted city leadership to discuss your feelings about this project, rather than just complained about it here?

To be clear, I wasn't making an underhanded comment against people complaining on this board by the above question. I was seriously interested in the answer and hoping there would be a lot. I wrote an email to the DDRC expressing my dissatisfaction with the proposal, specifically the parking garages and the plaza, which I believe will create a massive urban deadzone. I just received an email in response that said my email would be included in the packet given to the members of the committee. I also asked for the names and contact information of the members of the committee and, for some reason, they don't want to release that information. Anyone know why?

Several non affiliated have supported this application in full.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone on here and I am not harping on what I used to say. I do say though to Mr. Nichols and any other people involved with this project that we have had way too much of our history literally wiped out. If you are going to wipe out more to buildings, at least build something a little more inspiring. A 27 story building with parking garages for the entire block is a slap in the face to this city.

I love growth and development, but not at the expense of wiping out so much for so little in return. Can you not build something a little more grand to go along with your proposed garages? Is this really worth bending over the city and saying screw off, we are going to build our parking garages and little 27 story building for this entire block? I believe in right and wrong and this is just plain wrong. I hope people bombard city officials and demand more changes to this project.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone on here and I am not harping on what I used to say. I do say though to Mr. Nichols and any other people involved with this project that we have had way too much of our history literally wiped out. If you are going to wipe out more to buildings, at least build something a little more inspiring. A 27 story building with parking garages for the entire block is a slap in the face to this city.

I love growth and development, but not at the expense of wiping out so much for so little in return. Can you not build something a little more grand to go along with your proposed garages? Is this really worth bending over the city and saying screw off, we are going to build our parking garages and little 27 story building for this entire block? I believe in right and wrong and this is just plain wrong. I hope people bombard city officials and demand more changes to this project.

Would you like the building to be taller?

Would you like the building to be taller?

Is a pig's butt pork? Of course I would, but I was trying to say it in a nice way. I just really hate what is going on and do not think this is a good deal at all for DT and OKC. My point is that anytime history is destroyed, that is a bad thing. When it is destroyed and replaced with a project that will not inspire anyone, it makes it even worse. Of course I would like to see more height as well as many others. It just seems wrong that if they plan on leveling buildings, at least make it something we can all be proud of and take some pride in. I think the general consensus of this project would say they are very, very underwhelmed and disappointed, and perhaps bordering on ashamed of what is going to happen.

Is a pig's butt pork? Of course I would, but I was trying to say it in a nice way. I just really hate what is going on and do not think this is a good deal at all for DT and OKC. My point is that anytime history is destroyed, that is a bad thing. When it is destroyed and replaced with a project that will not inspire anyone, it makes it even worse. Of course I would like to see more height as well as many others. It just seems wrong that if they plan on leveling buildings, at least make it something we can all be proud of and take some pride in. I think the general consensus of this project would say they are very, very underwhelmed and disappointed, and perhaps bordering on ashamed of what is going to happen.

Okay, Thunder, we get it....:Smiley236