^^^
+1000

This is an area where OKC fares uniquely poor due to how much of the original downtown and urban core was torn down. It's why a lot of the country has the perception of OKC that they do. .
Actually, I believe a vast majority of the world outside Oklahoma (and probably just OKC) has no perception at all based on any personal experience. Most of the world hasn’t even thought about OKC’s old building inventory. In fact, I had this discussion with some RE investors I had in from the west coast who were visiting OKC for the first time. They had no idea of what to expect, and they even commented they were pleased and surprised at how many buildings downtown had been and were being remodeled and repurposed. I have heard this from other business associates visiting as well, so their comments were not unique.

I’m not saying we do a good job, but most people have no idea what others know or think about these things outside of our own groups. Thinking something ourselves doesn’t mean that it is what others think.

This weekend my wife's family was in from out of town. Her uncle is an architect based out of Venice, LA. My mother-in-law showed him around one afternoon and he talked to me about how surprised and delighted he was to see so many buildings being remodeled and repurposed. I was quite shocked about the good things he had to say about OKC.

Actually, I believe a vast majority of the world outside Oklahoma (and probably just OKC) has no perception at all based on any personal experience. Most of the world hasn’t even thought about OKC’s old building inventory. In fact, I had this discussion with some RE investors I had in from the west coast who were visiting OKC for the first time. They had no idea of what to expect, and they even commented they were pleased and surprised at how many buildings downtown had been and were being remodeled and repurposed. I have heard this from other business associates visiting as well, so their comments were not unique.

I’m not saying we do a good job, but most people have no idea what others know or think about these things outside of our own groups. Thinking something ourselves doesn’t mean that it is what others think.

Unfortunately have to agree with this based on my experience living on the east coast. I feel safe in saying most people in this country have never given Oklahoma/Oklahoma City much of any thought, much less thought about the quality of our original downtown building stock. I wouldn't want to try count the number of otherwise very intelligent people I interacted with who, other than the Thunder and the bombing, had never given any thought to OKC and guessed that our state was located anywhere but where it actually is (a few of my favorites - "up by Michigan, right?" "north of Nebraska?" "near one of the Dakotas?") It was definitely a humbling experience. However, as Rover and AP said, it gives us a unique opportunity to impress people who visit that have no preconceived expectations. It just seems the key is convincing people to give OKC a chance and after most visit (especially with the guidance of informed locals) they are pleasantly surprised.

And, by the way, this is not just OKC. Most people on the coasts, or just from somewhere else, probably know next to nothing about Dallas or a variety of other citiies they haven't been too. When I tell people I live just outside Dallas, I get ridiculous comments, stereotypes, and misunderstandings. The biggest exception for Dallas is most people are likely to have a layover there and see Dallas or Fort Worth upon their arrival.

Unfortunately have to agree with this based on my experience living on the east coast. I feel safe in saying most people in this country have never given Oklahoma/Oklahoma City much of any thought, much less thought about the quality of our original downtown building stock. I wouldn't want to try count the number of otherwise very intelligent people I interacted with who, other than the Thunder and the bombing, had never given any thought to OKC and guessed that our state was located anywhere but where it actually is (a few of my favorites - "up by Michigan, right?" "north of Nebraska?" "near one of the Dakotas?") It was definitely a humbling experience. However, as Rover and AP said, it gives us a unique opportunity to impress people who visit that have no preconceived expectations. It just seems the key is convincing people to give OKC a chance and after most visit (especially with the guidance of informed locals) they are pleasantly surprised.

Yep. For the most part people are pleasantly surprised when I bring them here -- the biggest criticisms of downtown that I get are that it features very few pedestrians/street life and it appears "dead", and to a lesser extent the number of surface lots (which is related to no longer having building stock indirectly, I guess). No one's ever complained that we lack historical buildings to me, etc. Granted, these aren't particularly urbanism-minded people, but still.

^^^^^^
This is true of nearly anyplace that is not a regular visitor destination or a place that’s not often featured in movies or television shows. I’ve been humbled so many times in the past when visiting places that were nothing like I expected them to be. Most people put together general ideas about a place based on stereotypes in the absence of other info. I mean, I assumed all of New Jersey looked like the Newark intro to The Sopranos until I drove from Newark to Rochester, NY via New Jersey and Pennsylvania. And can anyone who hasn’t been there tell me what Rochester is like? Or Des Moines? Or Flagstaff?

^^^^^^
This is true of nearly anyplace that is not a regular visitor destination or a place that’s not often featured in movies or television shows. I’ve been humbled so many times in the past when visiting places that were nothing like I expected them to be. Most people put together general ideas about a place based on stereotypes in the absence of other info. I mean, I assumed all of New Jersey looked like the Newark intro to The Sopranos until I drove from Newark to Rochester, NY via New Jersey and Pennsylvania. And can anyone who hasn’t been there tell me what Rochester is like? Or Des Moines? Or Flagstaff?

Agreed. I always chuckle when I hear people from OKC talk down on Cleveland, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Omaha, etc. and other cities that have the same or arguably a lot more going for them compared to OKC (something I'm sure that I'm guilty of as well). And the vast majority of New Jersey is beautiful - not called the garden state for nothing.

I made a point to vacation in Milwaukee this summer and everyone asked, why are you going there? We absolutely loved the city and were impressed by the all the things we could walk to from our hotel (e.g., great restaurants, tons of people playing beach volleyball on Lake Michigan, loved the Milwaukee Public Market).

I made a point to vacation in Milwaukee this summer and everyone asked, why are you going there? We absolutely loved the city and were impressed by the all the things we could walk to from our hotel (e.g., great restaurants, tons of people playing beach volleyball on Lake Michigan, loved the Milwaukee Public Market).
Agree. Was visiting friends in Madison, also very neat city, several years ago and went in to Milwaukee to see a Brewers game and spend a couple of days. Very neat city.

Agree. Was visiting friends in Madison, also very neat city, several years ago and went in to Milwaukee to see a Brewers game and spend a couple of days. Very neat city.

We spent 3 days in Milwaukee, two days in Madison, and did some hiking in between. Loved Madison. State Street is a great, urban college street.

I really love under the radar cities. I loved living in Wichita. Great, cheap weekend trip from OKC. Stay at the Ambassador and just wander Old Town (the Bricktown of Wichita) and Delano. I'm hoping to hit up Cleveland, Sacramento, and some other similar cities in the coming years.

I'm just frustrated that the identity of the parking garage district is being ruined by a sign that signifies public transit as a transportation option. ;)

Let's not confuse Greyhound with public transportation. More like an airliner with wheels :)

And ditto to all that was said about vacationing in so called second tier cities. I can't wait to take the drive to Milwaukee from MSP and check it out. Myself and some HS buds take a Texans NFL road trip each year and through that I've seen some cool cities I'd like have never visited. Cincinnati was my favorite.

I find it hilarious that this thread the topic has evolved to people being impressed with the historic preservation and repurposing in OKC.

You need to re-read and characterize the discussion properly, The claim was made about how most people perceive OKC relative to building preservation. It was not about how well we actually do it.

I did. I was pointing out the irony.

I'm hoping to hit up Cleveland, Sacramento, and some other similar cities in the coming years.

I loved Sacremento. If you have time, spend some time in Discovery Park along the river.

With the glass all in place over the bus station sign, it's actually hard to see.

I'm sure it will look better at night but during the day it's hard to tell what it is because the glass casket obscures to a large degree.

We spent 3 days in Milwaukee, two days in Madison, and did some hiking in between. Loved Madison. State Street is a great, urban college street.

I really love under the radar cities. I loved living in Wichita. Great, cheap weekend trip from OKC. Stay at the Ambassador and just wander Old Town (the Bricktown of Wichita) and Delano. I'm hoping to hit up Cleveland, Sacramento, and some other similar cities in the coming years.

Hope you enjoyed your time in Madison! That's where I currently live and love the urban environment that it's really working hard to develop.

Hope you enjoyed your time in Madison! That's where I currently live and love the urban environment that it's really working hard to develop.

I did Ironman Wisconsin there a few years back. Saw every inch of that city!

Really unique setting.

Any word on an operator or concept for the restaurant space?

Any word on an operator or concept for the restaurant space?

I don't think they have one.

No building permits have been issued in the entire building except for the the top 4 floors for BOK, the lobby for the BOK branch, and a very small space on the 2nd floor for a Devon group.

I did Ironman Wisconsin there a few years back. Saw every inch of that city!

Really unique setting.

That Ironman here is a crazy event and always has an enormous turnout.

It's been a very interesting comparison living here in Madison coming from OKC. This city is trying to make the most out of what little land exists between these lakes whereas OKC has so much land and room within its boundaries.

^

Right and really that strip between the capitol and university is very dense and constrained on both sides by lakes.

We had a great time there although it wasn't exactly a party for us! Even after that race you aren't right for several days.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217e.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217e.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111017a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111017b.jpg

The garage looks much better at night. Might just be the overcast day during the photos, but I'm not a big fan of that color in combination with the surrounding glass towers.

Doesn't look great. Doesn't look awful. Just very utilitarian. Like most parking garages.

Can't wait to hear who the retail and restaurant tenants are

night perspective nice, big city feel, well lit. pharmacy would absolutely rock there

Took this tonight:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111617a.jpg

Beautiful!

Lit up for the Thunder home game Wednesday night. They did that on the first game of the season also.

Lit up for the Thunder home game Wednesday night. They did that on the first game of the season also.

That photo was from last night, though, when the Thunder were not playing.

That photo was from last night, though, when the Thunder were not playing.

That's even better, Thunder blue every night !

First tenants supposedly move in in January.

First tenants supposedly move in in January.

Who are the tenants?

BOK is taking the top four floors and the lobby for a branch.

Devon is leasing a tiny bit of space on the 2nd level.

That's it thus far.

BOK is taking the top four floors and the lobby for a branch.

Devon is leasing a tiny bit of space on the 2nd level.

That's it thus far.

Ouch. I was under the impression that BOK was taking something like 1/3 while Devon was taking around the same or slightly more, and the rest for spec.

That photo was from last night, though, when the Thunder were not playing.

I noticed Devon and Oklahoma Tower were also in blue last night. Maybe they were testing and just went with what the other buildings were doing.

They are moving pretty fast now with the final touches to the exterior and lobby.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111917.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok111217e.jpg

Not sure what looks worse in downtown....the County Jail or this parking garage.

In person this isn't bad at all (to me).

Not sure what looks worse in downtown....the County Jail or this parking garage.

Go see it in person. It’s like anti-photogenic. It looks pretty good in person.

I've seen it multiple times in person and I still think it looks terrible.

Street level looks pretty good. The rest of it is okay. It isn't going to be any architectural marvel, but it looks substantial and will look like its been there awhile.

I've seen it multiple times in person and I still think it looks terrible.

Yep. Looks bad up close or on a screen.

Wondering why, when you're surrounded by glass, you would put up brown anything......

Wondering why, when you're surrounded by glass, you would put up brown anything......

It's called cutting cost, they went cheap on the garage to save money. That seems to be the only reasonable explanation for that atrocity, lol.

you can tell that the top few floors have been finished out (at least electrically) as the lights are white on those floors at night instead of bluish.

you can tell that the top few floors have been finished out (at least electrically) as the lights are white on those floors at night instead of bluish.

Right, it's the top 4 floors for BOK.

Besides the lobby for their branch, no other interior finish out is happening anywhere in that complex.

Such a weird deal

Right, it's the top 4 floors for BOK.

Besides the lobby for their branch, no other interior finish out is happening anywhere in that complex.

Wasn't Devon taking up some space in the building?

Wasn't Devon taking up some space in the building?

They were supposed to but the only space they are building out is 2,800 SF on the 2nd floor for some small unit of theirs.

They were supposed to but the only space they are building out is 2,800 SF on the 2nd floor for some small unit of theirs.

Wow, so 75% of the building will be on the market? Or will Devon eventually use the 200,000+ as they originally planned?

I don't see why OG&E just doesn't sell the Stage Center land to a someone who can develop it, & then OG&E can lease the remaining space in BOK Plaza.

or even better yet OGE can move into Kerr McGee tower (and appropriately light it), sell stage center for development, and Sandridge move into their appropriately sized new/empty building across the street and/or lease in BOKPP.

This development is just awful. I just can’t bring myself to like it at all. I keep beating a dead horse here, but the street interaction is garbage compared to what it could have been. What they tore down had so much more character. The building could have been built on the same block with a different layout.

It would have been taller and likely more architecturally interesting due to the engineering challenges it would have faced, though that is up for debate. F@ck this development for real. Devon could have still had their skybridge and it would have been longer. Moving walking platforms could be placed to speed up people’s walking commutes to and from the buildings.

But it was cheaper I guess to tear down everything and start blank with it on the corner and shorter parking garages. Business as usual in OKC... doing things on the cheap. I keep trying to like this development because it is what it is and isn’t getting better, but I can’t. Hopefully whatever is built on the Stage Center site is better than this so it’s somewhat worth it.

I like the building. Is it a magnificent architectural masterpiece? No, but it is a nice looking addition to the OKC skyline.

I find the building itself to be acceptable enough. The parking garages remain terrible even in person.