http://www.downtownokc.com/sites/default/files/styles/block/public/default_images/_tmp_img_bg-14.jpg?itok=ePum1HBF https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c2/a9/d3/c2a9d3081393304ec87c12490ec48832.jpg

The underground OKC Metro Concourse & the closing of main street is what KILLED the future potential for increased & expanded downtown vibrant street life.

I remember that area in the 70s and it was a very busy are. Main st. , Reno Couch , Kerr all the downtown area was a busy place with people every where on the streets. Things sure did change quickly as they pretty much killed downtown.

What a horrible thing those tunnels did giving people the option to walk underground out of the cold, heat, rain, snow, etc. and giving them a more direct route. We need to close them off so we can force people to walk on the streets just so we can see them do so to make us feel better!

The buildings height has always been 433 ft. not 450 ft.

What a horrible thing those tunnels did giving people the option to walk underground out of the cold, heat, rain, snow, etc. and giving them a more direct route. We need to close them off so we can force people to walk on the streets just so we can see them do so to make us feel better!

It's great for the individual pedestrian, but bad for the overall economic sustainability of restaurants and downtown retail in general. You have to look at the bigger picture, and not that of the individual person. (Just like most sprawl, ironically -- it's good in most ways for the individual [more individual space] but unhealthy for the overall city). Like all things, there should be balance. Sprawl should occur in controlled manners just as the tunnels should be controlled a little bit. Moderate levels of restraint don't hurt anyone -- it's called compromise. Unfortunately this city has so far not done a good job of balancing sprawl with density; nor walkability with traffic efficiency downtown. The city is very inconsistent -- but hopefully is learning as it goes forward.

What a horrible thing those tunnels did giving people the option to walk underground out of the cold, heat, rain, snow, etc. and giving them a more direct route. We need to close them off so we can force people to walk on the streets just so we can see them do so to make us feel better!

+1

It's great for the individual pedestrian, but bad for the overall economic sustainability of restaurants and downtown retail in general. You have to look at the bigger picture, and not that of the individual person. (Just like most sprawl, ironically -- it's good in most ways for the individual [more individual space] but unhealthy for the overall city). Like all things, there should be balance. Sprawl should occur in controlled manners just as the tunnels should be controlled a little bit. Moderate levels of restraint don't hurt anyone -- it's called compromise. Unfortunately this city has so far not done a good job of balancing sprawl with density; nor walkability with traffic efficiency downtown. The city is very inconsistent -- but hopefully is learning as it goes forward.

You live in the most individualistic society in the history of the world, fighting a losing battle.

It's great for the individual pedestrian, but bad for the overall economic sustainability of restaurants and downtown retail in general. You have to look at the bigger picture, and not that of the individual person. (Just like most sprawl, ironically -- it's good in most ways for the individual [more individual space] but unhealthy for the overall city). Like all things, there should be balance. Sprawl should occur in controlled manners just as the tunnels should be controlled a little bit. Moderate levels of restraint don't hurt anyone -- it's called compromise. Unfortunately this city has so far not done a good job of balancing sprawl with density; nor walkability with traffic efficiency downtown. The city is very inconsistent -- but hopefully is learning as it goes forward.

More people living downtown helps way more than "forcing" people to walk outside. Creating good street interaction helps way more. Getting retail at street level that actually entices people with good shopping and dining experiences helps way more. More evening and nighttime events helps way more. More employees downtown helps way more. The streetcar helps way more. Just forcing people to go where they don't want to go doesn't help.

^

It's a bit chicken-and-egg.

Hard to get street-side retail when there are no people on the street.

More people living downtown helps way more than "forcing" people to walk outside. Creating good street interaction helps way more. Getting retail at street level that actually entices people with good shopping and dining experiences helps way more. More evening and nighttime events helps way more. More employees downtown helps way more. The streetcar helps way more. Just forcing people to go where they don't want to go doesn't help.

We aren't talking about forcing anyone to do anything. I just want the network of the underground to not be expanded further. There's no point spending a ton of money to fix the mistake, leave it alone. But we shouldn't be spending money to make the mistake bigger. It's proven to be a drain on street level retail just as much as a highway can be a drain on a nearby neighborhood. Individually under their own merit they are useful, but there are appropriate uses of each and downtown is not an appropriate use of more Sky bridges bypassing the street.

BTW, when more money was to be invested in the Underground, several local architects and leaders came out strongly against it.

You may recall there was a push to place more street-level entrances and promote signage to get people down there and for the most part that didn't happen due to the opposition centered around the detraction from street life.

And the City paid Jeff Speck to come and help us with walkability pre Project 180 and he is dead-set against undergrounds and skywalks.

The irony is that P180 funds paid for the Devon skywalks which in turn connect the entire complex -- with BOK Plaza to come -- into the Underground system.

When ther are enough people downtown, not everyone will use the Underground, especially if the Morlocks are down there :-)

Reading this thread makes me question if OKC will ever be a great city. The momentum we got from the boom, the arrival of the Thunder, and minimally competent state government leadership is over.

Reading this thread makes me question if OKC will ever be a great city. The momentum we got from the boom, the arrival of the Thunder, and minimally competent state government leadership is over.

Come on now, I don't think there's a reason to be like that at this time. OKC is building itself up from the inside-out slowly, but thoroughly. The biggest problem is that the Internet and its forums tend to be overly negative as many of us have discussed. And I think most of us are guilty from time to time and we use it as a vent.

I'll say this, it's up to us, the people, to pressure civic and state leaders. If you don't like something, let us know on here as well as your friends and family and open a discussion and have us contact these leaders with you.
I gladly contacted the parties down in OKC when they were tearing down the Preftakes Block and asked them to reconsider, etc. While they moved forward with it anyway, they can get a taste of the people's will from time to time. And, in some cases, they can end up chucking out plans if it proves to be overly unpopular with the public.

OKC just started construction on its street car this week.
OKC has another massively budding entertainment area in a completely different part of town (which honestly helps with diversity) in Chisholm Creek.
OKC has a 435' tower getting closer to topping out (and maybe some time in the next few years we get to see the Stage Center site take hold of a large multi-use tower)
OKC is seeing Bricktown and the east side districts flesh out (slowly) with more housing options.
OKC is about to start on another massive neighborhood in The Wheeler.
OKC is starting work on their grand central park (it'll be great for OKC, even though I know some people wanted something with more scale like The Gathering Place is going to have).
OKC is on pace to break 700,000 people within its proper boundaries over the next 6-8 years most likely.

And while that last one may not be an "accomplishment" per se, OKC is more or less a "big league" city. And more people generally means a diversity of jobs that's keeping them here (which is really what both Tulsa and OKC need to keep striving for).
I know I've missed some things, but that's just off the top of my head.
The city has been trending in the right direction and is still going that way.

We are far from loosing momentum. There are plenty of projects moving forward right now. They're just not as sexy as the Devon tower. It's the infill projects and adding public services that will put this city over the top. There's not as many cute things going on right now but there's plenty of foundation and behind the scenes projects keeping us with very strong momentum still.

There is still tons of things in the pipeline as well.

We are just getting going, not winding down.

We are far from loosing momentum. There are plenty of projects moving forward right now. They're just not as sexy as the Devon tower. It's the infill projects and adding public services that will put this city over the top. There's not as many cute things going on right now but there's plenty of foundation and behind the scenes projects keeping us with very strong momentum still.

I wonder what's going to happen to all the Ford property that the City wanted to build the CC on? That is a very prime area and hopefully someone comes in with a close to Devon type project there. That site could hold several skyscrapers and I would imagine that someone has to be eye balling that propertry. If they could fill that prop. along with the stage property with skyscrapers that would really change the skyline.

I wonder what's going to happen to all the Ford property that the City wanted to build the CC on? That is a very prime area and hopefully someone comes in with a close to Devon type project there. That site could hold several skyscrapers and I would imagine that someone has to be eye balling that propertry. If they could fill that prop. along with the stage property with skyscrapers that would really change the skyline.

Right now, the Ford property is over valued.

Right now, the Ford property is over valued.

Not remotely. Anything that fronts the Myriad Botanical Gardens is part of the most valuable real estate in all of Oklahoma...Given that the Ford site fronts BOTH parks, I'd say it's probably the 2nd most valuable land assembly in the state, beaten only by the Cox CC (because Park + Transit Hub > Park + Bigger Park).

Ford site also has zero improvements on it currently, while the Cox site will come with demolition and remediation costs. When OCURA starts taking bids for that site, there is no reason for them to bear the cost of site prep.

That matters a lot in most markets, although OKC makes demo pretty easy.

From today, just finishing the 26th floor.

One more office floor then the crown.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok012717.jpg

13478

13478

That's a great angle.

I really hope the Coney Island building gets restored along with the space on the corner some day soon before it's lost too. I shouldn't use the word "hope" since we all see where hoping gets us. Considering the Main Street Arcade project down the street, this couldn't be that much more complicated of a project. Years ago the last time I frequented Coney Island I remember hearing they have barely even explored the upper floors since there is no light except for a flashlight. Surely David Wanzer, Richard McKown or someone with experience have noticed this building?

Really balances the skyline nicely viewing from the north. Agree with whoever said it looks too much like Devon.

From today, just finishing the 26th floor.

One more office floor then the crown.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok012717.jpg

I love that show...

ha ha. After finishing the first season I'm left wondering what will happen next.....

This looks really cool driving on I35 northbound right after the I40 exit when it's in between the Devon Tower and First National. With the crane at it's current hight, it looks like it could rise 20 more stories.

This looks really cool driving on I35 northbound right after the I40 exit when it's in between the Devon Tower and First National. With the crane at it's current hight, it looks like it could rise 20 more stories.

Yes, maybe they could just keep going up higher and higher. Maybe an email campaign to let them know they didn't build it tall enough and we demand at least 40 stories with a story crown.

Really balances the skyline nicely viewing from the north. Agree with whoever said it looks too much like Devon.

It does look like a mini Devon Tower. The 3-story crown should accent this tower; anxious to see it lit up at night.

Great View of the skyline with the construction of the BOK Park Plaza Tower traveling south on Portland crossing 39th Street N. W.

Yes, maybe they could just keep going up higher and higher. Maybe an email campaign to let them know they didn't build it tall enough and we demand at least 40 stories with a story crown.

I can't tell if you're being snarky, so I'll clarify.

Some out-of-towner who didn't know it was almost topped out could look at the current height of the tower and crane and assume it was half complete. Making them think we are getting something taller than we're actually getting.

I, personally, could care less about its height.

Yes, maybe they could just keep going up higher and higher. Maybe an email campaign to let them know they didn't build it tall enough and we demand at least 40 stories with a story crown.

There are buildings (new ones) that are sitting empty right now downtown...think SandRidge.

These plans for BOKPP were drawn up a couple of years ago and email campaigns will not alter their business need.

there are buildings (new ones) that are sitting empty right now downtown...think sandridge.

These plans for bokpp were drawn up a couple of years ago and email campaigns will not alter their business need.

lol

How about an email campaign asking them to just leave the crane up there....that would give us all the height we so desire ;)

How about an email campaign asking them to just leave the crane up there....that would give us all the height we so desire ;)
I would go for that! Hang a Thunder flag off there. Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone but many on here have been asking for taller since this project was announced at 27 stories. I do think they missed a chance to build the 2nd tallest in OKC with just a little more. It is what it is so maybe the next one will be taller.

Earlier everyone was saying it was too short I think it looks a lot better now that its almost topped out I still do wish it was taller though

I think it looks great, and the height is more than sufficient. My only issue with the design is it blends in too much with the Devon tower. It almost looks like an annex of that tower.

I hope the crowns lights aren't bland and they can change colors

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/edmondsun.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/1b/71b55f9a-581d-11e5-937d-8bd3f6a7ecdc/55f222d66e0d4.image.jpg
Oklahoma City - BOK Park Plaza Tower - 27 floors, 433 feet.

Many would like to see this tower larger in height. Once they submitted their plans it was highly unlikely that you would see any more height than planned to this project--give or take few feet.

The tower looks great, very appealing driving up I35 from Moore. Adds density & character to the skyline, better than nothing!

My only issue with the design is it blends in too much with the Devon tower. It almost looks like an annex of that tower.

Agree. It does look like a Devon annex. It would've been nice if the materials or the design could've been different to make it more distinct from Devon.

Why do so many people obsess over height? What does a few more stories add to your city other than hubris?

Why do so many people obsess over height? What does a few more stories add to your city other than hubris?

I'll never understand it either. I'd far rather more 4-8 story infill than any tower. IMHO, cities are primarily defined by what it looks/feels like at the street level where people live and interact, not at a distant skyline view. Many of the best cities in the world have no skyscrapers to speak of.

And I'll really never understand complaining about a building's height as if the people or political leaders of OKC somehow determine the height with their low expectations, instead of a business deciding on a height that meets their needs. There are a lot of posters that seem to think of building height as if we live in SimCity.

People think lots of tall buildings look cool and add to a cities profile (both of these are mostly true).

Add that with OKC and Tulsa not exactly being like a Chicago or Dallas, and people get excited when these towers start rising.

Add that with this is only the second tower above 400' built in OKC in, what, 30 years?

It's just the inner kid in us wanting bigger, better, and more.
I'll say I'm over wishing this was taller though. I don't care anymore. It'll serve its purpose and I'm more interested in watching better urban use arise from the remaining city blocks.

People think lots of tall buildings look cool and add to a cities profile (both of these are mostly true).

Add that with OKC and Tulsa not exactly being like a Chicago or Dallas, and people get excited when these towers start rising.

Add that with this is only the second tower above 400' built in OKC in, what, 30 years?

It's just the inner kid in us wanting bigger, better, and more.
I'll say I'm over wishing this was taller though. I don't care anymore. It'll serve its purpose and I'm more interested in watching better urban use arise from the remaining city blocks.

And in the mind of the majority of the populace, it is a sign of progress in their city.

People think lots of tall buildings look cool and add to a cities profile (both of these are mostly true).

Add that with OKC and Tulsa not exactly being like a Chicago or Dallas, and people get excited when these towers start rising.

Add that with this is only the second tower above 400' built in OKC in, what, 30 years?

It's just the inner kid in us wanting bigger, better, and more.
I'll say I'm over wishing this was taller though. I don't care anymore. It'll serve its purpose and I'm more interested in watching better urban use arise from the remaining city blocks.

And with limited housing in the CBD, far more people interact with downtown OKC by looking at the skyline from a distance than spend time walking block to block worrying about infill.

And with limited housing in the CBD, far more people interact with downtown OKC by looking at the skyline from a distance than spend time walking block to block worrying about infill.

Yeah, but you don't have to live downtown to spend time in the core. I've never lived in OKC's core (unless you count Midtown), but I've spent a lot of time there. But, more than that, I'd argue that looking at a skyline is not much of an interaction at all. That's why ground level activation matters so much... walking around the core, frequenting businesses, and bumping into fellow citizens are the types of meanigful interactions that define cities.

Yeah, but you don't have to live downtown to spend time in the core. I've never lived in OKC's core (unless you count Midtown), but I've spent a lot of time there. But, more than that, I'd argue that looking at a skyline is not much of an interaction at all. That's why ground level activation matters so much... walking around the core, frequenting businesses, and bumping into fellow citizens are the types of meanigful interactions that define cities.

Not to mention that good urban design makes the city way more $$$ than does a building that is taller

And consider this: For this one 27-story building there are two massive parking garages being built, and the developers and architects both said it was impractical to build them higher.

Which means that if this building had been 40 stories, they would have likely built a third monolithic parking structure nearby.

That's why ground level activation matters so much... walking around the core, frequenting businesses, and bumping into fellow citizens are the types of meanigful interactions that define cities.

On this point, the areas with the yuge buildings in major cities (that create the "cool" skyline) are often the least-liked parts of town by the locals - precisely for this reason. Speaking primarily from experience living in New York but also having visited multiple major cities, the highrises that create the skyline often have horrible ground level interaction. Ask a New Yorker if they'd rather spend time in Midtown and the Financial District or the Village, Williamsburg, Soho, etc. and 9.9/10 will choose the latter.

On this point, the areas with the yuge buildings in major cities (that create the "cool" skyline) are often the least-liked parts of town by the locals - precisely for this reason. Speaking primarily from experience living in New York but also having visited multiple major cities, the highrises that create the skyline often have horrible ground level interaction. Ask a New Yorker if they'd rather spend time in Midtown and the Financial District or the Village, Williamsburg, Soho, etc. and 9.9/10 will choose the latter.

speak

Took these last night:

http://i.imgur.com/U1UUBbt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Tlcn9Em.jpg?1

Cool, thanks for the different views.

Cool, thanks for the different views.

Yep those look nice :cool:

Was talking with a local contractor today about some work and he mentions the BOK tower being built downtown. I told him that I wish that it was a little taller and he said when it's finished it will be almost as tall as Devon. I told him that I didn't want to burst his bubble but that it was just about finished. He said no that they another year to go. I said no the are building the last floor now. He was adamant that there was still about 20 more stories to go. He said he knew the contractor and said they had changed the plans several times. I said OK.

Was talking with a local contractor today about some work and he mentions the BOK tower being built downtown. I told him that I wish that it was a little taller and he said when it's finished it will be almost as tall as Devon. I told him that I didn't want to burst his bubble but that it was just about finished. He said no that they another year to go. I said no the are building the last floor now. He was adamant that there was still about 20 more stories to go. He said he knew the contractor and said they had changed the plans several times. I said OK.

That's the right response. They don't just re-engineer a project in the hundreds of millions on the fly, particularly a bank.

Whelp, you heard it here first! Almost* as tall as Devon!

(*Depending on your definition of almost)

Was talking with a local contractor today about some work and he mentions the BOK tower being built downtown. I told him that I wish that it was a little taller and he said when it's finished it will be almost as tall as Devon. I told him that I didn't want to burst his bubble but that it was just about finished. He said no that they another year to go. I said no the are building the last floor now. He was adamant that there was still about 20 more stories to go. He said he knew the contractor and said they had changed the plans several times. I said OK.

I wouldn't want that guy doing any work for me, sounds like he doesn't have a clue.

I'd hire him. Sounds like he'd just keep going for free.

I'd hire him. Sounds like he'd just keep going for free.

Well he's a small concrete guy and he knows one the concrete contractors working on BOK. He said they have concrete coming on that project for the next year non stop. He called them the Ok Twin Towers.

I feel like I've ran into your friend a lot. Some people are adamant about 'knowing' behind-the-scenes things happening in OKC, when they actually know less than the person they're speaking with. Hell, just being a lurker on this forum would have you more informed than 90% of OKC.