Sorry if I misinterpreted her response or was needlessly pessimistic, but I interpreted her response as to say that energy prices have called the developments into question. I have heard other people (not on OKCTalk) also have doubts because of it. You are probably right that it all goes back to the Oklahoman painting a "sky is falling" picture regarding oil prices and their effect on development. I speculate that some of it also has to do with some people are cynical regarding the demolition of the historic buildings and the chance that what was promised to replace them won't get built, as happened during the 1980s oil bust.

Anyways, good to hear that isn't a possibility.

Pete, I agree with both of your posts. However I do think you were a little overly harsh on bchris up there. I read the quote several times and it took me a few times to see the context that you saw. She should have wrote her post a little more clearly to differentiate between the restaurants inside the project, and the entire project as a whole.

Interestingly, I was speaking with a leading national design and construction lead tracking service this week and they informed me that Oklahoma and DFW are the hottest activity markets they have going right now. They said you can't believe the amount of interest they are fielding regarding OKC and new projects.

Interestingly, I was speaking with a leading national design and construction lead tracking service this week and they informed me that Oklahoma and DFW are the hottest activity markets they have going right now. They said you can't believe the amount of interest they are fielding regarding OKC and new projects.

Talked with a guy from CNS insurance which is national commercial insurance company. If I remember correctly, he said OKC is the #1 market in the country growth wise. Maybe not growth, but some impressive statistic :p

Considering that BOK Park Plaza's primary tenant will be the Bank of Oklahoma, I don't see how the low oil prices will affect it that much. The same with OG&E. Now if we were talking about a new corporate tower for an energy company such as Devon, or especially Chesapeake, I'd be concerned. Right now I'm not.

Considering that BOK Park Plaza's primary tenant will be the Bank of Oklahoma, I don't see how the low oil prices will affect it that much. The same with OG&E. Now if we were talking about a new corporate tower for an energy company such as Devon, or especially Chesapeake, I'd be concerned. Right now I'm not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the majority of the building will be Devon, with just a few floors dedicated to Bank of Oklahoma.

No, the majority will be BOK, and a few floors dedicated to Devon. If it were the opposite I'd be concerned a bit.

No, the majority will be BOK, and a few floors dedicated to Devon. If it were the opposite I'd be concerned a bit.

Devon is occupying up to 250,000 sf (~35%).

No, the majority will be BOK, and a few floors dedicated to Devon. If it were the opposite I'd be concerned a bit.

Nope.

BOK is only taking 100,000 SF and Devon is taking almost 3 times that amount.

11924
Hmmmm, not sure why it's sideways.

11924
Hmmmm, not sure why it's sideways.

Nice, you can see they started the foundation piers, let's go! Excited for this tower, anything over 400 FT is a pretty good height, it will expand & change the skyline!

From today:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok121115.jpg

This nice weather is helping things. Piers, footings, bottom floor being poured in the first parking garage. Moving right along!

And still no construction cam anywhere?

^

Much more difficult to accomplish than you might think.

We were spoiled by the Devon Tower experience where one of our posters dedicated a PC for the cam and his employer didn't mind. You also have to let your employer have you send images via FTP and almost no one allows that for security reasons.

^

Much more difficult to accomplish than you might think.

We were spoiled by the Devon Tower experience where one of our posters dedicated a PC for the cam and his employer didn't mind. You also have to let your employer have you send images via FTP and almost no one allows that for security reasons.

And then there was the time when had a cam on the Stage Center demolition due to the generosity of another poster and the landlord stormed in and demanded it be taken dow.

^
And then there was the time when had a cam on the Stage Center demolition due to the generosity of another poster and the landlord stormed in and demanded it be taken dow.

That landlord should storm into Google headquarters and demand them to stop taking satellite imagery LOL.

Meanwhile at OU, you can watch stadium construction in high-def. It is sad how many people in positions of power are afraid of their own shadow now-a-days.

Meanwhile at OU, you can watch stadium construction in high-def. It is sad how many people in positions of power are afraid of their own shadow now-a-days.

OR there is a hell of lot more people who care about the OU renovation then BOKs shiny new office tower.

Also, OU is trying to raise a ton of money for the stadium project, so it's in their best interest to engage as many people as possible.

Outline of building now starting to show:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/499010416.jpg

What a silly twist to the main building. Just think, had they built it up against the street they could have made the parking garages that much bigger.

What a silly twist to the main building. Just think, had they built it up against the street they could have made the parking garages that much bigger.

They could have also created an active space at street level instead of what will turn out to be a dead corporate plaza in the evenings and weekends. So many mistakes have been made with this development its unbelievable. The developer is obviously still living in the early 1980s.

On the positive end, after what was lost, I am still glad to see something being built.

What a silly twist to the main building. Just think, had they built it up against the street they could have made the parking garages that much bigger.

I imagine they believe they are creating value for the occupants by having better park views.

I wonder how that angle will reflect morning sunlight.... Might be pretty blinding in the park in the morning.

I imagine they believe they are creating value for the occupants by having better park views.

More likely, the main tenant insisted on it.

I wonder how that angle will reflect morning sunlight.... Might be pretty blinding in the park in the morning.
That should be a relief for the people who said the plants at the Myriad Gardens would die due to lack of sunlight if skyscrapers were built around it. lol

More likely, the main tenant insisted on it.

Exactly. It had more value for the occupants.

Any progress on the site?

Any progress on the site?

Yep, they're out there everyday. Weather probably slowed them a bit.

Any picture updates for those of us who can't see very far?

Thanks :)

Here you go... The parking garage is now about 1 level out of the ground.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok011616.jpg

Thanks Pete! Do we have any detailed blueprints of what the plaza on the corner may look like?

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/9853d1419097539-bok-park-plaza-hinesnow7.jpg

Are the tables in that picture intended to represent some sort of outdoor/indoor cafe?

Are the tables in that picture intended to represent some sort of outdoor/indoor cafe?

Don't question them. They are there and that is how it's going to be. If you have a problem with the tables, I suggest you take up with the chief agent of the (IOTCB)International Outdoor Table Coordinators Board and let him what you think they are intended to be because I'm sure he would be less than pleased to hear your concerns regarding his table.

You put a table there, people sit there. You're looking at it.

With Devon's imminent white collar layoffs, what is the point of this building?

I know they still have employees peppered throughout downtown, and consolidating them is a benefit but won't that absolutely kill our office market downtown? I can't see them needing this much space when there are substantial rumors of a 40% layoff.

This is also completely ignoring the cost of the project, which seems kind of silly to spend that much on a empty/spec building.

The point is the new building won't be open for business for 2 more years and by then everything will have changed.

Remember, by the time they started construction on their current complex, things were a bit down then and by the it opened, they almost completely maxed out their space which is why they are building this new complex.

Also, BOK is in the mix not just Devon.

With Devon's imminent white collar layoffs, what is the point of this building?

I know they still have employees peppered throughout downtown, and consolidating them is a benefit but won't that absolutely kill our office market downtown? I can't see them needing this much space when there are substantial rumors of a 40% layoff.

This is also completely ignoring the cost of the project, which seems kind of silly to spend that much on a empty/spec building.

I mean read the thread title, it's called "BOK Park Plaza." Devon is/was only taking up part of the building...their name isn't even on it. I thought the primary goal of this building was to privide a consolidated space for BOK's OKC operations.

Also you act like that because Devon didn't predict $20 oil two years ago while planning this, that they should just stop building it because of today's pricing environment. Similarly, no one really knows what commodities pricing will look like when this is completed, just as Devon didn't when they constructed the tower at $30 oil and $3 gas. General sentiment is that the price of oil will be higher in 2 years, so that's what their planning on.

I mean read the thread title, it's called "BOK Park Plaza." Devon is/was only taking up part of the building...their name isn't even on it. I thought the primary goal of this building was to privide a consolidated space for BOK's OKC operations.

Also you act like that because Devon didn't predict $20 oil two years ago while planning this, that they should just stop building it because of today's pricing environment. Similarly, no one really knows what commodities pricing will look like when this is completed, just as Devon didn't when they constructed the tower at $30 oil and $3 gas. General sentiment is that the price of oil will be higher in 2 years, so that's what their planning on.

The name of the thread & the name of the building says BOK, but the content of this thread & the employees inside this future building are mostly made up of Devon. Isn't BOK only expected to take up like 2 floors or something like that?

Its kind of just like how Rainey Williams was used to destroy Stage Center. He absorbs the bad press so OGE didn't have to deal with it. Just like how Devon can get away with firing a ton of employees without feeling the public backlash of building a brand new building at the same time, because the public thinks this is BOK.

If Devon truly believed oil was going to go back up soon, and I consider 2 years soon, then I don't think they'd be letting go of 40% of their employees. Hopefully I'm wrong & oil goes back up, and I say this with complete sincerity, I also hope that this tower gets built no matter what happens.

I also hope that this tower gets built no matter what happens.

This.

Considering what was lost on this block, to have the tower delayed/stalled would be a disaster for downtown.

As far as I know Devon isn't the owner of the new tower are they? Weren't they just going to lease space in it? If Devon was the owner and the developer, I would be a lot more concerned about it than if its being built by an outside developer as a spec tower.

The financing is already in place and they are deep into construction.

Almost no chance this project gets halted.

Haven't seen a progress picture here in a bit so I'll post a couple.

1212212123

^^^ Moving on up ! ^^^

This.

Considering what was lost on this block, to have the tower delayed/stalled would be a disaster for downtown.

As far as I know Devon isn't the owner of the new tower are they? Weren't they just going to lease space in it? If Devon was the owner and the developer, I would be a lot more concerned about it than if its being built by an outside developer as a spec tower.

BOK is moving into this tower too.

Theoretically, what would happen if Devon decided they didn't need the space and pulled out of this deal before the tower was completed?

Like I said, it's unusual for a tower to be halted mid-construction when there isn't a national financial crisis. However, with the way things are looking with the economy in OKC right now, I am wondering about this "what if?".

Devon has signed leases obligating themselves; they only thing they could really do is sub-lease space but I'm sure they won't do that.

They are really moving on this project:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bok012215.jpg

I mean read the thread title, it's called "BOK Park Plaza." Devon is/was only taking up part of the building...their name isn't even on it. I thought the primary goal of this building was to privide a consolidated space for BOK's OKC operations.

Also you act like that because Devon didn't predict $20 oil two years ago while planning this, that they should just stop building it because of today's pricing environment. Similarly, no one really knows what commodities pricing will look like when this is completed, just as Devon didn't when they constructed the tower at $30 oil and $3 gas. General sentiment is that the price of oil will be higher in 2 years, so that's what their planning on.

Oil is going to go up? Supply is increasing right now as Iran’s oil starts to come to market and with ISIS starting to fade in Iraq. That's at the same time as demand is weak with the BRIC countries starting to really have hard times economically. I think oil is looking to go down, and two years seems too short for oil to fully recover.

The hard part is, anything much longer than say two or three years and electric cars are going to be starting to seriously eat away at the demand for oil, even with a China recovery. Not even counting what’s happening here and in Europe electric cars are exploding in China and with the pollution problems they have in the cities there and in India, they are going to have to go electric as soon as possible.

The difficult and very possibly real answer is, oil may never fully recover.

Oil is going to go up? Supply is increasing right now as Iran’s oil starts to come to market and with ISIS starting to fade in Iraq. That's at the same time as demand is weak with the BRIC countries starting to really have hard times economically. I think oil is looking to go down, and two years seems too short for oil to fully recover.

The hard part is, anything much longer than say two or three years and electric cars are going to be starting to seriously eat away at the demand for oil, even with a China recovery. Not even counting what’s happening here and in Europe electric cars are exploding in China and with the pollution problems they have in the cities there and in India, they are going to have to go electric as soon as possible.

The difficult and very possibly real answer is, oil may never fully recover.

It depends on what you consider fully, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

It depends on what you consider fully, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

What do you see happening?

Crude oil market to recover in 2016, Continental's Harold Hamm predicts - Continental Resources, Inc. (NYSE:CLR) | Seeking Alpha (http://seekingalpha.com/news/2998696-crude-oil-market-to-recover-in-2016-continentals-harold-hamm-predicts)

In 2014 there were 87 million cars produced globally. The global projection for electric car production by 2020 (by a green advocacy source, so possibly a high estimate) is 3 million (9 million electric and hybrid). Probably a ways to go before oil demand is eaten away at, by electric cars anyway.

And in the U.S., 27% of all electricity is produced by natural gas.

It depends on what you consider fully, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

I doubt it fully recovers in that oil is $100+ / barrel. But $50-60 is likely. The question will be when does that happen, and you'll get different answers from everyone including so-called experts like Harold Hamm.

It depends on what you consider fully, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

I would call $75 a full recovery. I say it’s very doubtful that’s possible in two years, if ever. Devon is laying off 30-40% of its workforce and we aren’t even at the bottom yet. The bottom may not even be in sight yet:

Iranian oil likely to push prices lower (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/01/17/iranian-oil-likely-push-prices-lower/78938912/)


Iran's oil ministers say they intend to boost their oil production and ship 500,000 barrels a day initially, now that sanctions have been lifted in light of nuclear inspections deal, the Islamic Republic News Agency reported. Iran's goal is 2 million barrels a day.
Eshaq Jahangiri, Iran's First Vice President, said Monday that his nation's oil exports will increase soon and grow further "on a daily basis," the news agency also reported.
The higher production levels alone are big enough to further depress the price of oil, especially since Saudi Arabia has refused to cut its production levels.
The result could lead to oil prices in the mid-$20s a barrel, and with occasional bouts of panic selling, briefly dip into the teens, said Tom Kloza, global head of energy analysis for the Oil Price Information Service.



Can oil go lower? ?An emphatic yes?, says IEA (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/19/can-oil-go-lower-an-emphatic-yes-says-iea.html)


Iran insists it will boost output by an immediate 500,000 barrels per day. The IEA believes that by the end of the first quarter, around 300,000 barrels a day of additional crude oil could be flowing to world markets.
And with little prospect of global growth picking up, the IEA warned that "unless something changes, the oil market could drown in over-supply". "So the answer to our question (can it go any lower?) is an emphatic yes."


How many does Devon let go at $18 a barrel? Devon may well never occupy this building.

In 2014 there were 87 million cars produced globally. The global projection for electric car production by 2020 (by a green advocacy source, so possibly a high estimate) is 3 million (9 million electric and hybrid). Probably a ways to go before oil demand is eaten away at, by electric cars anyway.

9 million by 2020? That’s more than 10% of the market. That’s huge. Transportation makes up 40% of the demand for oil globally, if you lower the amount of oil used by transportation by 10% that’s a 4% fall in global demand for oil. That’s a big drop in just four years. Combine that with the growing trend of cities in Europe banning cars in city centers and cities in India and China only allowing cars on every other day to lower pollution you will see an even further drop in demand.

And in the U.S., 27% of all electricity is produced by natural gas.

And that's likely to grow as we and other countries move away from coal.

We need to cool the "Devon is laying off 30% to 40% of their workforce" talk.

That is highly speculative and I seriously doubt that information is real or even accurate.

This keeps getting repeated as fact and it absolutely is not.