I don't think people realize how big a city Columbus is. Two Million metro. Cleveland, Cincy, and Columbus are all pretty close in size. Columbus proper is the 14th or 15th biggest city in the country.

Yeah, I would group Columbus with Kansas City, Charlotte, San Antonio and Austin. Oklahoma City is better compared with Memphis, Louisville, Birmingham, and Omaha.

I know we are way off topic but I like this discussion about urban development in peer cities...

Milwaukee was mentioned and some may remember that about 5 years ago I wrote this glowing report on a recent trip there. I was born in MKE and go there regularly for family and I usually do a big walking tour, starting south of downtown and working my way up to what they call the East Side, near UW-Milwaukee, a total of 3-4 miles.

I do this because my parents grew up there and I know lots of history from them and my other family members. Plus, there is tons of infill urban development, converted industrial buildings, etc.

When I last did this circa 2010 I remember saying "I wish OKC had a fraction of their urban development". But now, things have really flipped.

Milwaukee continues to thrive and remains what I believe to be the most underrated city in the U.S. but I think OKC is now easily out-pacing them in terms of new and planned development in the core.

They have had a couple of cool high-rise residential towers go up and a ton of smaller projects but nothing like the number of new living units we have been building. Of course, they already had a lot of housing stock because there are several universities close in and they kept a lot of bars and restaurants even through the low point of white flight in the 60's and 70's.

But the point is that just five years ago I was filled with envy and now I think we've moved past them and I also think we have lots more momentum. I hadn't thought abot that until this topic came up.

One other thing...

Even those who follow this stuff super closely probably don't realize that virtually every single un- and under-developed property in the core is now in play.

OKC now has this legion of developers and investors who are continually scouring the area looking for opportunities. There are so many deals being worked right now, including several that should be announced in the next 1-3 months.

But take any property that has ever crossed your mind when you drive by it and I can assure you there have been 5-10 developers already calling the existing owners.

There are also a ton of restaurant groups running around looking at every interesting property. Lots more of those on the way, too.

At the same time, prices have come up so much that the money being offered is increasingly tempting people to sell, including those that have been operating businesses for extended periods. It's just that we are still talking about hundreds if not thousands of projects and lots of stubborn owners, so this all takes time.

In other words, the ball is now very definitely rolling downhill. Critical mass has been achieved and it's just a matter of time before almost all the vacant and under-utilized properties in the core are redeveloped.

One other thing...

Even those who follow this stuff super closely probably don't realize that virtually every single un- and under-developed property in the core is now in play.

OKC now has this legion of developers and investors who are continually scouring the area looking for opportunities. There are so many deals being worked right now, including several that should be announced in the next 1-3 months.

But take any property that has ever crossed your mind when you drive by it and I can assure you there have been 5-10 developers already calling the existing owners.

There are also a ton of restaurant groups running around looking at every interesting property. Lots more of those on the way, too.

At the same time, prices have come up so much that the money being offered is increasingly tempting people to sell, including those that have been operating businesses for extended periods. It's just that we are still talking about hundreds if not thousands of projects and lots of stubborn owners, so this all takes time.

In other words, the ball is now very definitely rolling downhill. Critical mass has been achieved and it's just a matter of time before almost all the vacant and under-utilized properties in the core are redeveloped.

That's amazing and exciting.

Dang, that really is exciting.

In 2008, I have to admit that I moved away from OKC because I was quite ashamed of this city. I enjoyed my time in Denver, but unfortunately '08 was the great recession and there were no design jobs to be had. Now that I'm back and finishing my masters, I'm giddy to be able to put down roots in OKC. I know we're off topic, but I wanted to echo Pete's sentiment and share that I'm now extremely proud to be in the midst of OKC's evolution.

Skyline with BOK Park Plaza.
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Is there somewhere that I can read your report about your Milwaukee trip? I would be very interested. I have lived in OKC for 5 years now, but I grew up in the Madison, WI area. I agree when you say that Milwaukee is one of the most underrated cities in the US. Milwaukee actually is a fantastic city. It has been a few years since I have been there, however, I do know the scope of development there is impressive. As we speak, Northwestern Mutual is building what will be the second tallest building in the state of WI as their new HQ in downtown Milwaukee. The architect is Pickard Chilton, same as Devon and 499 Sheridan here in OKC. They also start construction on their streetcar route next month in October. I believe, from what I always noticed when I lived in WI, what I think part of the reason Milwaukee is so underrated, is because it sits in the shadow of Chicago. I know there is about 90 miles between downtown MKE and downtown Chicago, but Chicago is many times larger. Whenever we went to the "big city" it wasn't to MKE, it was always to Chicago. When I turned 18 and moved to La Crosse, WI for school, we still never went to MKE, if we weren't going to Minneapolis, we still went to Chicago, without ever having to even travel through MKE. I mean, I LOVE Chicago, always have, always will, but I always thought it was too bad Chicago stole a lot of the limelight from MKE. Maybe I am wrong, but this is the impression I always got, and other people in WI have mentioned the same thing.

Thanks KayneMO! That is really going to stretch the skyline to the west! Hooray for a little balance!

The Northwestern Mutual tower is what BOK Park Plaza should have been, not a ripoff of an existing building in New York.

Completely agree! Never thought of it until you mentioned it UnFrSaKn, but BOK Park Plaza does look like a smaller version of the United Nations Building, doesn't it?

I don't think people realize how big a city Columbus is. Two Million metro. Cleveland, Cincy, and Columbus are all pretty close in size. Columbus proper is the 14th or 15th biggest city in the country.

Cbus is also seeing the second largest numerical population increase (after NYC) in the Northern U.S. Indy and Mpls are also fast-growing. These cities aren't building new skyscrapers, for the most part, and most high-rise development is actually residential. They've realized mid-rise scale is so important to becoming an urban city. An urban city is when nearly every neighborhood in the city proper form an urban fabric. Indy still doesn't really belong in this class.

OKC, forsaking that mid-rise "fabric" for a possible high-rise skyline, is not an insignificant development. We know immediately what is lost, but beyond that the adverse implications of forsaking that fabric won't be realized until this area is "finished-out." And at that point, I don't think we're going on like what we see.

These just aren't very sophisticated developments.

Cbus is also seeing the second largest numerical population increase (after NYC) in the Northern U.S. Indy and Mpls are also fast-growing. These cities aren't building new skyscrapers, for the most part, and most high-rise development is actually residential. They've realized mid-rise scale is so important to becoming an urban city. An urban city is when nearly every neighborhood in the city proper form an urban fabric. Indy still doesn't really belong in this class.

OKC, forsaking that mid-rise "fabric" for a possible high-rise skyline, is not an insignificant development. We know immediately what is lost, but beyond that the adverse implications of forsaking that fabric won't be realized until this area is "finished-out." And at that point, I don't think we're going on like what we see.

These just aren't very sophisticated developments.

Oklahoma City has some awesome, exciting mid-sized developments happening right now. Things like the Metropolitan, LIFT, Steelyard, Residences at 21c, etc. All of the smaller infill projects such as the SOSA developments, the new mixed-use development in the Plaza, Via Paseo, etc are also exciting. If you want to be excited about OKC, just walk the streets of some of the near northside neighborhoods. Unfortunately, every single one of the "big ticket" developments in OKC are making a big mistake of some kind. There are many in this city who are content with the CBD being nothing more than a corporate business park, active from 8-5 but dead after everyone returns nightly to their McMansions north of the Kilpatrick and unfortunately, that is the mindset of the people with the most money and power here.

Oklahoma City has some awesome, exciting mid-sized developments happening right now. Things like the Metropolitan, LIFT, Steelyard, Residences at 21c, etc. All of the smaller infill projects such as the SOSA developments, the new mixed-use development in the Plaza, Via Paseo, etc are also exciting. If you want to be excited about OKC, just walk the streets of some of the near northside neighborhoods. Unfortunately, every single one of the "big ticket" developments in OKC are making a big mistake of some kind. There are many in this city who are content with the CBD being nothing more than a corporate business park, active from 8-5 but dead after everyone returns nightly to their McMansions north of the Kilpatrick and unfortunately, that is the mindset of the people with the most money and power here.

Those "awesome" developments you mention are mostly stick-built junk that probably won't age well. Here in Denver we've had thousands upon thousands of those units built in the last 5 years and generally regard them as future affordable housing.

The smaller infill projects that are transforming the neighborhoods are exciting and IMO will have just as much benefit as those other larger projects, long-term.

Oklahoma City has some awesome, exciting mid-sized developments happening right now. Things like the Metropolitan, LIFT, Steelyard, Residences at 21c, etc. All of the smaller infill projects such as the SOSA developments, the new mixed-use development in the Plaza, Via Paseo, etc are also exciting. If you want to be excited about OKC, just walk the streets of some of the near northside neighborhoods. Unfortunately, every single one of the "big ticket" developments in OKC are making a big mistake of some kind. There are many in this city who are content with the CBD being nothing more than a corporate business park, active from 8-5 but dead after everyone returns nightly to their McMansions north of the Kilpatrick and unfortunately, that is the mindset of the people with the most money and power here.

I think this is probably one of the more even-keeled posts in this thread, fair to both sides, hopefully agreeable to all. There is some yin with the yang in OKC.

Oklahoma City has some awesome, exciting mid-sized developments happening right now. Things like the Metropolitan, LIFT, Steelyard, Residences at 21c, etc. All of the smaller infill projects such as the SOSA developments, the new mixed-use development in the Plaza, Via Paseo, etc are also exciting. If you want to be excited about OKC, just walk the streets of some of the near northside neighborhoods. Unfortunately, every single one of the "big ticket" developments in OKC are making a big mistake of some kind. There are many in this city who are content with the CBD being nothing more than a corporate business park, active from 8-5 but dead after everyone returns nightly to their McMansions north of the Kilpatrick and unfortunately, that is the mindset of the people with the most money and power here.

I think this is probably one of the more even-keeled posts in this thread, fair to both sides, hopefully agreeable to all. There is some yin with the yang in OKC.

Completely agree! Never thought of it until you mentioned it UnFrSaKn, but BOK Park Plaza does look like a smaller version of the United Nations Building, doesn't it?

Pretty cool to think that we are going to have a Secretariat Building copy here. I always liked "true" International Style. However, the Omaha building is stately and impressive. The curve is beautiful.

Oklahoma City has some awesome, exciting mid-sized developments happening right now. Things like the Metropolitan, LIFT, Steelyard, Residences at 21c, etc. All of the smaller infill projects such as the SOSA developments, the new mixed-use development in the Plaza, Via Paseo, etc are also exciting. If you want to be excited about OKC, just walk the streets of some of the near northside neighborhoods. Unfortunately, every single one of the "big ticket" developments in OKC are making a big mistake of some kind..

Specifically what 'big ticket developments are you talking about?

Specifically what 'big ticket developments are you talking about?

499 Sheridan, OG&E Center, and potentially the convention center depending on how it turns out.

Completely agree! Never thought of it until you mentioned it UnFrSaKn, but BOK Park Plaza does look like a smaller version of the United Nations Building, doesn't it?

It is actually a replication of the Lever Building in NYC, which had significance in it's day.

It could be.

The architect name-checked Lever House when the plans for 499 Sheridan were made public.

For Comparison
Lever House
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499 Sheridan
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Lever House was the building in New York I was referring to.

I dont see the resemblance... /sarcasm

Either way, I dont care. Do you think the average OKCitian is gonna be able to pick out one of 50,000 buildings on the NYC skyline and know those buildings kinda look similar?

Honestly I would want a building that doesn't look like all other buildings. I think it would help our skyline stand out.

1154611547

499 Sheridan and United Nations. I know there is a huge size difference, but when I made the comparison between the two, I was talking about the shape. The Lever House didn't even come to mind until it was mentioned here. I had completely forgot about it.

any pics on progress? anybody have the project construction plan?

Since this is the city's tallest major tower u/c, will there be a web cam or frequent picture updates for those of us who can't get downtown? (esp us expats :) ).

Would be great to see this building's cranes going up at the same time as the Cummins building Bricktown.

I drove by a couple days ago, and they were still taking away rubble from the implosions. I can't imagine that it will be too long before construction begins and a sky crane is erected on site.

sky crane... isn't that what Mars Curiosity used to be lowered to the surface? wouldn't that be fun to use for construction projects...


yeah here it is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1WX0CATyn8

Tower Crane

any pics on progress? anybody have the project construction plan?



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123623_zpsksoalyd3.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123623_zpsksoalyd3.jpg.html)



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123633_zpspr2gtbfr.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123633_zpspr2gtbfr.jpg.html)



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123816_Pano_zpsi0irlvzd.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123816_Pano_zpsi0irlvzd.jpg.html)



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123613_zps3ho6w8m6.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_123613_zps3ho6w8m6.jpg.html)



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_125835_zpsemxl43ho.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/20150924_125835_zpsemxl43ho.jpg.html)

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/499092415b.jpg

Bumping this to the front of the threads

Big equipment on site:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/499093015.jpg

Look at the progress they're making on that NE garage, if this keeps pace, that'll be the first thing we see rise on the site, which I believe was the plan, correct?

I really can't wait to see this tower finally rising after everything (keeping it there as we move on...).

I think this tower will actually look relatively "tall" even next to Devon Tower. I say that because after all, it's just a matter of feet taller than the half way mark of Devon Tower, and only 67 feet shorter than Chase. So I think we'll be able to see it from more vantage points than we think (or at least I think).

Given the [currently perceived by me, a layman, so don't kill me] climate in energy sector at the moment I'd like to see the tower rise sooner rather than later so we actually get a building and not two parking garages and an empty lot. I get that BOK is the anchor but this is still a concern to me if say Devon and other energy companies downtown also announce layoffs.

They already have the full financing in place so I don't think finishing this project is going to be an issue.

That's good, but I'll still feel much more at ease once the tower starts rising.

Given the [currently perceived by me, a layman, so don't kill me] climate in energy sector at the moment I'd like to see the tower rise sooner rather than later so we actually get a building and not two parking garages and an empty lot. I get that BOK is the anchor but this is still a concern to me if say Devon and other energy companies downtown also announce layoffs.

You aren't the first person I've heard with this concern. I agree, the sooner the tower starts rising out of the ground the better.

You aren't the first person I've heard with this concern. I agree, the sooner the tower starts rising out of the ground the better.

It's a fully-financed loan and highly doubtful that Devon is a guarantor on the loan. However, the rent from Devon was likely used to make the deal cash flow. Even though Devon is effected by the swings in the oil and gas market, they are still going to need this space to place employees. And if something extraordinary happens to Devon, brand new Class A space in a great location would be filled quickly.

Pete or anyone in the know - Any time frame for a web cam coming online ?

Thanks

They are starting to drive pilings to support the parking garage on the NE corner of this project:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/499100815.jpg

Drove by this today and the basement for the tower looks almost completely dug out. From the picture above it's now pretty much a rectangle.

Drove by this today and the basement for the tower looks almost completely dug out. From the picture above it's now pretty much a rectangle.

Good to hear. Lets get this thing coming out of the ground!

That was the basement for the old Hotel Black.

They haven't even started working on the foundation for the tower and they will have to go much deeper than what is currently there.

However, they are moving fast on the northeast parking garage with pilings already being driven. That may go up very fast and serve as parking for the crew as they work on the tower and the other garage.

Good to hear. Lets get this thing coming out of the ground!

I'd bet this will be coming out of the ground by January, unless the weather gets in the way.

This is the view from my back deck.

This building will start rising just to the right of Devon Tower and it will be cool to see the skyline extended from this angle, which I've always thought was the best, as all the taller buildings line up and you can see Leadership Square as well:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nightview.jpg

499 Sheridan and the OG&E Tower will really change the skyline from that angle. I am looking forward to the towers rising out of the ground.

499 Sheridan and the OG&E Tower will really change the skyline from that angle. I am looking forward to the towers rising out of the ground.
Amen to that.

Anyone have any idea what they are doing along Main Street with what appears to be some concrete forms they are building literally right in the right lane of eastbound Main Street back towards and inside the property line? At first I saw them drilling two column piers in the street I thought maybe it would be where a large construction crane would be, but this is unlike what I saw them do with the Arts District Garage or when Devon was being built. Though, I do see power connections installed there, so that could be for a crane installment. Just seems to be a large platform for a crane, but if so and unlike what I've seen them do before.

A lot going on here that I'm not sure what to make of. Where 499 itself is supposed to be the grade is at two different levels and I thought they would have leveled that evenly. And in the south side of the picture they have the grade terraced and appear to be prepping a pier drilling operation there at the top of the terrace.
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I've seen precast walls built right on top of each other separated by plastic, but the forms and rebar in the street I've never seen anything like it being built in this manner. Will be interesting to watch.

Cannot figure out what that square box is in the middle of the right lane of Main Street:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/499110415.jpg

Cannot figure out what that square box is in the middle of the right lane of Main Street:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/499110415.jpg

Speculating but maybe the base of a crane?

^

That's probably right!

Base of a crane is my guess a swell. It's certainly big enough for a tower crane to sit on. I've been wondering when one will be erected on site.

Main Street near the site is closed for the weekend, so likely moving crane on site.

Makes a lot of sense for that to be a base for a tower crane, but I can tell you that it is quite a bit different in configuration than the footings were for the tower cranes used to construct Devon Tower.

^

I think this is just for the NE parking garage, not the tower.