If our convention center hotel ends up looking like that Omni people will complain about the mix of materials and try to campaign for them to add 5 more floors.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Go read the CC hotel thread and see the positive response that particular design received.

I don't know much about the engineering involved, but is building at least a portion of these garages underground not an option? Is the soil/water table really the issue here, or is it primarily a cost thing?

It's just a cost thing. There are underground garages and of course other other underground structures all throughout downtown.

Why don't you bookmark this post and if no one complains about the cc hotel when it gets proposed I'll be happy to eat crow.

Downtown is going to look really good from the west looking to the east on I44/State Fair Park once all this is done. Coming south on 235 I think Devon might cover everything up.

The retail spaces in the garages were clearly an afterthought. At 20' deep, they are barely large enough for pop-up shops.

That was my thought also - set up to fail from the beginning. I don't think a 7-11 could even work in those spaces. I'm not sure they can be viable and will not be anything but a void along those sidewalks for a long time.

Overall it isn't terrible, but incorporating some of hoyasooner's suggestions would improve it quite a bit. The height discussion sometimes gets silly, but it is undeniable the skyline could use some balancing. None of the buildings proposed in the area does this. It is almost like there is an unwritten rule in OKC that no one is allowed to build anything that diminishes Devon's dominance. *sarc*

OK. If I have this right, the building will be 27 stories at 433 ft. Now if you do the math on that, that is approximately 16 ft per level. In looking at the renderings, it appears to me there is about a 3 story/floor crown on top of the 27. Are those being calculated into the overall height? If not, that would add another approximately 48 ft onto this structure. Someone correct me or explain to me how this works or how you think it works.

OK. If I have this right, the building will be 27 stories at 433 ft. Now if you do the math on that, that is approximately 16 ft per level. In looking at the renderings, it appears to me there is about a 3 story/floor crown on top of the 27. Are those being calculated into the overall height? If not, that would add another approximately 48 ft onto this structure. Someone correct me or explain to me how this works or how you think it works.

I'm sure the crown is calculated into the overall height. That means the floor heights average around 14.5 feet.

433 includes the crown.

Here's how it breaks down:

Level 1: 20 feet
Level 2: 20 feet
Level 3-26: 14 feet
Level 27: 15 feet (top occupied floor)
Level 28: 26 feet (mechanical)
Level 29: 16 feet (open crown)

That's a total of 433.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinesnewest24.jpg

So the lighting will go on level 28 and top of 29. Any chance Devon and BOK both have a sign on the building.

Devon doesn't even have a sign on their current building, apart from monuments and entries.

I'm sure it will just be BOK. No doubt part of the deal to get them in the building.

Why don't you bookmark this post and if no one complains about the cc hotel when it gets proposed I'll be happy to eat crow.I'm going to remember this.

This is somewhat of a situation of the chickens coming home to roost from our past.

Think about it; none of the big downtown office buildings have parking.

Leadership Square has a tiny bit below, same for BOK Plaza, and SandRidge Tower. Maybe accomodates 2% of their tenant needs. FNC, City Place, Oklahoma Tower (has some but not enough), Corporate Tower, Chase, Continental, Braniff, Parkside on and on.

Very true. It also seems to be why the bulk of the street life is centered on Park Ave.


I really think this parking crunch is a pretty new development and the City did see it coming, as they commissioned a parking study several years ago. As it is, they put up the new Main Street Garage and the place was full they day they opened it.

The bottom line is that right now and for the foreseeable future, if you want to build new office space you have to build an ample garage as well, otherwise you will have no place for the new workers to park.

Very true as well. And which is why it may be time for the entities that oversee downtown development to take a look at what type of guidelines they can implement that mitigate the negative impact of large parking garages on the districts' environment and come up with some creative solutions that ensure positive elements as well. Maybe some sort of ratio that dictates that part of the structure interact better with the street or some, or some better materials guidelines. I don't think anyone wants all of downtown to be more like Gaylord than Park, but we have to have these garages it seems. So, we need to be enforcing some sort of compromise.

^

Very good point about mitigating the impact of the garages. We clearly have to have them and plenty more are coming.

Perhaps this is a good use for TIF dollars: to provide incentives to put some parking underground; to make them look very nice; and to provide as much street interaction as possible.

In that case, perhaps the city should offer TIF dollars to Hines for these purposes as it pertains to this project. Might be money well spent.

^^^ If we are going to lose some historic structures it would be more easier to stomach if they help set a new standard or underground parking and providing and encouraging street life. TIF dollars would be well spent to show how it can be done here and how to do it right. We have a new school less than a block here with the possibility of 3 garages looking out its front door.

Is there any word on how the DDRC went this morning? I was hoping Steve was going to live tweet it but I haven't seen anything from any of the cities writers.

Today was just an informal presentation and I doubt much of anything new came to light.

However, they have submitted their full application for demo and design plans for the January DDRC meeting and are hoping to receive all necessary approvals then and move forward pretty rapidly.

^
Having said that, I'm most interested in what Preservation Oklahoma had to say today. I'm pretty sure they were at the meeting.

https://www.facebook.com/preservationok/posts/10152579962675745

The retail spaces in the garages were clearly an afterthought. At 20' deep, they are barely large enough for pop-up shops.
Ya, a pretty weak attempt at putting retail on the ground floor. Does nothing to bring life and vitality to the street.


I wonder if it's just not feasible to build new high rises in Oklahoma City without making rest of the block a parking garage? If it really isn't, we're going to have a really ugly downtown in 20 years.

Very true. No one wants to live or hangout in a sea of parking garages. People need to get more creative or the city should put in some kind of standards on design and to limit the amount of garages in a particular area. Good thing that there appears to be some momentum in Film Row (assuming more building dont get demo-ed for garages) because I cant imagine it will be all that nice to live in the proposed Clayco housing tower. Other than living in a shiny highrise, it doesnt seem like it will be all that pleasant in these couple of blocks, especially in the evening.

And I still dont get the "crank" thing. Just build to the street, this is downtown.

One sort-of positive...the city may have a new district they can promote. Garagetown!

I'll be extremely disappointed if the DDRC doesn't strongly consider KayneMo's design. I don't understand why we can't preserve the old on this block while building new within that context? I guess it just makes too much damn sense.

I'll be extremely disappointed if the DDRC doesn't strongly consider KayneMo's design. I don't understand why we can't preserve the old on this block while building new within that context? I guess it just makes too much damn sense.

Prepare yourself then.

433 foot building- yawn. Are we really incapable of building antother building over 500 feet? Let's level the block and forget about everything else and put up an average looking at best mid rise that looks like it should be in the suburbs of most cities and 2 parking garages. Meanwhile the Devon still stands out like a misplaced middle finger. Nice job in once again deleting history for a 27 foot mid rise.

433 foot building- yawn. Are we really incapable of building antother building over 500 feet? Let's level the block and forget about everything else and put up an average looking at best mid rise that looks like it should be in the suburbs of most cities and 2 parking garages. Meanwhile the Devon still stands out like a misplaced middle finger. Nice job in once again deleting history for a 27 foot mid rise.

Location aside, they are building what they need. What they need just happens to be 433 ft worth of office space.

433 foot building- yawn. Are we really incapable of building antother building over 500 feet? Let's level the block and forget about everything else and put up an average looking at best mid rise that looks like it should be in the suburbs of most cities and 2 parking garages. Meanwhile the Devon still stands out like a misplaced middle finger. Nice job in once again deleting history for a 27 foot mid rise.I believe we will get some taller buildings announced soon. Let just let these get built, let downtown get more dense, than I think we will see taller action. Possibly 3-5 years. I agree though, this building should be taller.

433 foot building- yawn. Are we really incapable of building antother building over 500 feet? Let's level the block and forget about everything else and put up an average looking at best mid rise that looks like it should be in the suburbs of most cities and 2 parking garages. Meanwhile the Devon still stands out like a misplaced middle finger. Nice job in once again deleting history for a 27 foot mid rise.

While I don't like the demos that will be needed, your obsession over height has stopped being funny and started becoming annoying. They are building a fairly nice building that is largely in line with what you would find in markets OKC's size. Does 67 feet bother you that much? Seriously let it go.

You are convinced that OKC is such a laggard here, but I'll just say if this structure was being built in other cities, it would be the 4th tallest in Nashville, 5th tallest in KC and STL, and 6th tallest in Austin. All of these markets are quite a bit bigger than OKC FWIW.

If it matters this much to you, you are free to go raise capital and go build a 500 foot building yourself.

while i don't like the demos that will be needed, your obsession over height has stopped being funny and started becoming annoying. They are building a fairly nice building that is largely in line with what you would find in markets okc's size. Does 67 feet bother you that much? Seriously let it go.

You are convinced that okc is such a laggard here, but i'll just say if this structure was being built in other cities, it would be the 4th tallest in nashville, 5th tallest in kc and stl, and 6th tallest in austin. All of these markets are quite a bit bigger than okc fwiw.

If it matters this much to you, you are free to go raise capital and go build a 500 foot building yourself.

standing ovation

433 foot building- yawn. Are we really incapable of building antother building over 500 feet? Let's level the block and forget about everything else and put up an average looking at best mid rise that looks like it should be in the suburbs of most cities and 2 parking garages. Meanwhile the Devon still stands out like a misplaced middle finger. Nice job in once again deleting history for a 27 foot mid rise.

So, you don't think they will need more than a few floors as fast as they are growing? What will they do in a few more years, go out and build a 10-12 story building and start all over because they perhaps shorted themselves on this one. This project, this block simply demands so much more than what is being delivered. It's almost a disgrace and slap in the face to the city and the people of OKC to do this. This building could be put anywhere else in downtown and it would be fine. To do what they are doing here is very much like the proposed Rainey project that was originally planned that we all hated.

So, you don't think they will need more than a few floors as fast as they are growing? What will they do in a few more years, go out and build a 10-12 story building and start all over because they perhaps shorted themselves on this one. This project, this block simply demands so much more than what is being delivered. It's almost a disgrace and slap in the face to the city and the people of OKC to do this. This building could be put anywhere else in downtown and it would be fine. To do what they are doing here is very much like the proposed Rainey project that was originally planned that we all hated.that was never the plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS ONLY CONCEPTUAL!

While I don't like the demos that will be needed, your obsession over height has stopped being funny and started becoming annoying. They are building a fairly nice building that is largely in line with what you would find in markets OKC's size. Does 67 feet bother you that much? Seriously let it go.

You are convinced that OKC is such a laggard here, but I'll just say if this structure was being built in other cities, it would be the 4th tallest in Nashville, 5th tallest in KC and STL, and 6th tallest in Austin. All of these markets are quite a bit bigger than OKC FWIW.

If it matters this much to you, you are free to go raise capital and go build a 500 foot building yourself.

In Stl they have a limit in size because of the Arch. Don't think they can build anything new over 500 ft. But,even if they added a 100 ft crown of some sort with a time & temp sign it would be better than 433 ft. That is simply not tall enough right next door to Devon. I know there's nothing we can do about it but it sure seems like someone is making a huge blunder by not building it taller. If they were building in another area then no prob. It's just at that location it's gonna look tiny. Watch and see.

So, you don't think they will need more than a few floors as fast as they are growing? What will they do in a few more years, go out and build a 10-12 story building and start all over because they perhaps shorted themselves on this one. This project, this block simply demands so much more than what is being delivered. It's almost a disgrace and slap in the face to the city and the people of OKC to do this. This building could be put anywhere else in downtown and it would be fine. To do what they are doing here is very much like the proposed Rainey project that was originally planned that we all hated.

Listen, you wish that this tower was taller. We all wish that you'd just let it go. Looks like none of us are gonna get any wishes come true.

You seriously just keep posting the same thing over & over again. This tower was obviously built to be a side piece to King Devon Tower, there is no way there are going to make it taller. Get over it.

This may have been mentioned, but this building reminds me of the new 7 World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan. It's boxy and on a slight angle, but I like it.

433 foot building- yawn. Are we really incapable of building antother building over 500 feet? Let's level the block and forget about everything else and put up an average looking at best mid rise that looks like it should be in the suburbs of most cities and 2 parking garages. Meanwhile the Devon still stands out like a misplaced middle finger. Nice job in once again deleting history for a 27 foot mid rise.

At this point, you are beating the dead horse into pulp. If you really think that the Devon is gonna look like the "middle finger" after this is all said and done, then I suggest you try sitting at the intersection of I-40 & Western, headed north. That view ALREADY looks like the middle finger you dread so badly, but after these proposed towers I don't see how one could perceive that image at all. Unless 10 high rises and one skyscraper looks like a middle finger to you... but you've made it pretty clear that's about all you gather from our future skyline. ;P

Here's a fun note: Devon at 844' not only sticks out in our city, but it would in most cities. Devon would be the 15th tallest complete building in NYC at the current moment and tied for 12th in Chicago. These giant cities have hundreds, if not thousands, of structures that are above 5 stories, yet Devon would still be in top 20 in each. Swap out Chicago and NYC for a middle-sized metro like us and you start to see how rare a tower like Devon is for a city our size. So in context to Devon, OF COURSE these new towers are "short", but if we would stop obsessing over Devon's height then you might see these towers for what they really are; 5 great highrises [according to factual information and not opinion] designed by world-renowned architects that will make GREAT additions to extend our skyline and add density.

I am actually very pleased with this development, retail aside (& the loss of Hotel Black *tear*]. I wonder how many people even know of the Lever House in Manhattan? Very lovely and minimalist building that still shines among the thousands of similarly-sized structures in NYC. It makes me appreciate the design of 499 more than I would have without the context. I also will remain optimistic as to the fate of the retail spaces. I am REALLY hoping that we can encourage the developer and the city to at least ensure the retail is done correctly and not some half-assed display boxes like Devon's parking garage. Which if I remember correctly, we were told those spaces would be available for lease at some point in the future. Me thinks we got tricked pretty good in believing that; Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us.

We should definitely be proactive with the small details, as that is where we have the most chance of impacting this project in a positive way that can benefit the workers, residents, and visitors. I think the retail and parking garages are where we should focus constructive criticism.

that was never the plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS ONLY CONCEPTUAL!

Okay, my turn: *Like*

^
Having said that, I'm most interested in what Preservation Oklahoma had to say today. I'm pretty sure they were at the meeting.

Don't hold your breath. It's not like they have any influence whatsoever when it comes to preservation. IIRC, they got put in their place during the Sandridge debacle. It's unlikely they will say a word against this.

Cloud in the skyline: Review committee notes problems with downtown tower design | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/12/18/protecting-the-past-review-committee-notes-problems-with-downtown-tower-design-real-estate/)

Can you post contents of the article?

Seriously, this is beginning to border on trolling. 144 posts on this board and I will bet 130 or more of them have either been complaints about the heights of various proposals or defending said posts. Find some other topics to post about, engage with the community here and demonstrate that you're actually interested in adding to the discussion/city in some way. PLEASE.

At this point, you are beating the dead horse into pulp. If you really think that the Devon is gonna look like the "middle finger" after this is all said and done, then I suggest you try sitting at the intersection of I-40 & Western, headed north. That view ALREADY looks like the middle finger you dread so badly, but after these proposed towers I don't see how one could perceive that image at all. Unless 10 high rises and one skyscraper looks like a middle finger to you... but you've made it pretty clear that's about all you gather from our future skyline. ;P

Here's a fun note: Devon at 844' not only sticks out in our city, but it would in most cities. Devon would be the 15th tallest complete building in NYC at the current moment and tied for 12th in Chicago. These giant cities have hundreds, if not thousands, of structures that are above 5 stories, yet Devon would still be in top 20 in each. Swap out Chicago and NYC for a middle-sized metro like us and you start to see how rare a tower like Devon is for a city our size. So in context to Devon, OF COURSE these new towers are "short", but if we would stop obsessing over Devon's height then you might see these towers for what they really are; 5 great highrises [according to factual information and not opinion] designed by world-renowned architects that will make GREAT additions to extend our skyline and add density.

I am actually very pleased with this development, retail aside (& the loss of Hotel Black *tear*]. I wonder how many people even know of the Lever House in Manhattan? Very lovely and minimalist building that still shines among the thousands of similarly-sized structures in NYC. It makes me appreciate the design of 499 more than I would have without the context. I also will remain optimistic as to the fate of the retail spaces. I am REALLY hoping that we can encourage the developer and the city to at least ensure the retail is done correctly and not some half-assed display boxes like Devon's parking garage. Which if I remember correctly, we were told those spaces would be available for lease at some point in the future. Me thinks we got tricked pretty good in believing that; Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us.

We should definitely be proactive with the small details, as that is where we have the most chance of impacting this project in a positive way that can benefit the workers, residents, and visitors. I think the retail and parking garages are where we should focus constructive criticism.

Bravo.

While I don't like the demos that will be needed, your obsession over height has stopped being funny and started becoming annoying. They are building a fairly nice building that is largely in line with what you would find in markets OKC's size. Does 67 feet bother you that much? Seriously let it go.

You are convinced that OKC is such a laggard here, but I'll just say if this structure was being built in other cities, it would be the 4th tallest in Nashville, 5th tallest in KC and STL, and 6th tallest in Austin. All of these markets are quite a bit bigger than OKC FWIW.

If it matters this much to you, you are free to go raise capital and go build a 500 foot building yourself.

Scroll on buddy. If you don't like my opinion, if you see my name just keep on scrolling. I think if more people rejected this as I do, it could make a difference. I believe that they have people checking out what the public thinks or at least I'd like to think they'd like to get a feel for what the general opinion is of this. If they see we are all excited about leveling the block for this mid rise, well we will have set our standards that this is what OKC basically is. As great as it is getting 5 towers in the 20-27 story range, I would much, much rather have 3 towers at about 35-45 story range.

As for the person who said the Devon would look funny in other major cities, I disagree. In fact it wouldn't even look out of place down the turnpike in Tulsa. They have other high rises that are in the 550 to 670 foot range. The Devon would be taller but it would not look awkward in Tulsa like it does in OKC. Can you all really not see how very few high rises OKC actually has? The Cotter Ranch is the second tallest at 500 feet and a few more in the 350 to 450 range. It just looks weird, sorry but it does. I have heard several times how beautiful the Devon is followed by it looks strange because all the other buildings look like midgets. That is the truth, that is what has been said, and this site needs more height and street interaction, not leveled and 2 more parking garages. If this mid rise was somewhere else, no complaints from me. BTW, did anyone see the new residential high rise that was just proposed in Austin? It is supposed to be the tallest one west of the Mississippi. I know we aren't Austin but the standards they have compared to OKC are literally night and day. I can't imagine anyone there being a little jealous of this 27 story project.

Scroll on buddy. If you don't like my opinion, if you see my name just keep on scrolling. I think if more people rejected this as I do, it could make a difference. I believe that they have people checking out what the public thinks or at least I'd like to think they'd like to get a feel for what the general opinion is of this. If they see we are all excited about leveling the block for this mid rise, well we will have set our standards that this is what OKC basically is. As great as it is getting 5 towers in the 20-27 story range, I would much, much rather have 3 towers at about 35-45 story range.

As for the person who said the Devon would look funny in other major cities, I disagree. In fact it wouldn't even look out of place down the turnpike in Tulsa. They have other high rises that are in the 550 to 670 foot range. The Devon would be taller but it would not look awkward in Tulsa like it does in OKC. Can you all really not see how very few high rises OKC actually has? The Cotter Ranch is the second tallest at 500 feet and a few more in the 350 to 450 range. It just looks weird, sorry but it does. I have heard several times how beautiful the Devon is followed by it looks strange because all the other buildings look like midgets. That is the truth, that is what has been said, and this site needs more height and street interaction, not leveled and 2 more parking garages. If this mid rise was somewhere else, no complaints from me. BTW, did anyone see the new residential high rise that was just proposed in Austin? It is supposed to be the tallest one west of the Mississippi. I know we aren't Austin but the standards they have compared to OKC are literally night and day. I can't imagine anyone there being a little jealous of this 27 story project.Do you like the Dubai Skyline?

In nearly two decades of posting on and reading message boards, I have never utilized the ignore feature on one until this very moment.

KayneMo and his idea was read and discussed in the meeting today. They distributed his model on paper to the group. Nice shout out to OKCTalk!

Just watched the video from the meeting. Here's a quick summary.


John Pickard of Pickard Chilton took them through a big presentation. Nothing he said was new as far as I could tell. Also had a landscape architect talk about the plaza.

Afterwards, most of the committee made comments, which included:


Disappointed there was no attempt to save any buildings.
Skybridges are not good urban planning and detracts from streetlife
Very concerned that only a parking garage will be located at Walker & Sheridan. Key intersection and Elementary school is right across the street. (several members echoed this point).
Depth of retail will not lend itself to many uses.
Retail space is only 2% of the total garage space.
Over 50% of the entire block will be parking.
There are three other adjacent parking garages; Devon garage in particular has similar materials. All this massing is a concern.
Why not eliminate north garage and add more levels to west garage? Why not add underground levels. (Pickard semi-addressed this one with a complete non-answer).
Clayco is proposing to build the most expensive apartments in town at Walker & Sheridan and will be looking into and on top of a parking garage.
Walker needs activity; key street and there is only blank parking in their proposal.


Pickard thanked everyone for the comments and said they were taking copious notes and their ideas to heart. (Reminder they have already submitted a design application for the next meeting. Could be supplemented / changed.)

The only citizen to speak was Jane Jenkins who is President of Downtown OKC Inc. She said she was there as a private citizen and her opinions were her own.

Her concern was the plaza. Said she offices in Leadership Square and never sees anyone using that large plaza, the one at SandRidge or BOK Plaza. Said that this building fronts Myriad Gardens all would be better served if the building would be pulled to corner and that the park be the doorstep rather than another vastly under utilized corporate plaza.

The committee thanked Pickard and that was that.

No one from Preservation Oklahoma spoke.

Do you like the Dubai Skyline?

It wouldn't suck! Panda, I think part of me wants OKC do just be better than OK. It's done so much yet holds itself back by poor decisons far too often. It frustrates me and I want this city to be great. I applaud all the progress and things that have been done over the years, but anyone tell me why a city like Tulsa can have several taller skyscrapers over 500 feet and we slap up a beautiful snow white and all the dwarfs around it? It just doesn't make any sense that we can't get one proposal over 500 feet.

I am glad they at least voiced some obvious concerns. Now if they put their foot in the sand and require some changes remain to be seen. I've been thinking about it and Devon needs the parking the office space. As much as money talks and influence they have in the city, the city should realize they have the upper hand and require changes. What can Devon do? build the tower elsewhere? That hardly fits into their plan. Preftakes has pumped money into this site so it has to turn into something. He can't keep paying for empty properties forever. It's time the city puts it's foot down and controls this situation.

At this point, you are beating the dead horse into pulp. If you really think that the Devon is gonna look like the "middle finger" after this is all said and done, then I suggest you try sitting at the intersection of I-40 & Western, headed north. That view ALREADY looks like the middle finger you dread so badly, but after these proposed towers I don't see how one could perceive that image at all. Unless 10 high rises and one skyscraper looks like a middle finger to you... but you've made it pretty clear that's about all you gather from our future skyline. ;P

Here's a fun note: Devon at 844' not only sticks out in our city, but it would in most cities. Devon would be the 15th tallest complete building in NYC at the current moment and tied for 12th in Chicago. These giant cities have hundreds, if not thousands, of structures that are above 5 stories, yet Devon would still be in top 20 in each. Swap out Chicago and NYC for a middle-sized metro like us and you start to see how rare a tower like Devon is for a city our size. So in context to Devon, OF COURSE these new towers are "short", but if we would stop obsessing over Devon's height then you might see these towers for what they really are; 5 great highrises [according to factual information and not opinion] designed by world-renowned architects that will make GREAT additions to extend our skyline and add density.

I am actually very pleased with this development, retail aside (& the loss of Hotel Black *tear*]. I wonder how many people even know of the Lever House in Manhattan? Very lovely and minimalist building that still shines among the thousands of similarly-sized structures in NYC. It makes me appreciate the design of 499 more than I would have without the context. I also will remain optimistic as to the fate of the retail spaces. I am REALLY hoping that we can encourage the developer and the city to at least ensure the retail is done correctly and not some half-assed display boxes like Devon's parking garage. Which if I remember correctly, we were told those spaces would be available for lease at some point in the future. Me thinks we got tricked pretty good in believing that; Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us.

We should definitely be proactive with the small details, as that is where we have the most chance of impacting this project in a positive way that can benefit the workers, residents, and visitors. I think the retail and parking garages are where we should focus constructive criticism.
I knew absolutely nothing about the Lever House in Manhattan that you reference. So, I googled it. Very interesting story and information about the building and building of it, especially about the glass and stainless steel curtain. Also, it is on the National Register of Historic Places and is designated as a New York City landmark. It has been copied for skyscrapers in several cities around the world. If our new building is designed with the Lever House as the model, I think it might be much better than many are expecting. I get it about the garages and all, I'm just speaking about the building itself.

I like the overall design, but the garage massing is horrid. I hope they go back and make some modifications, and develop a better land use plan for the garages. In the presentations, it stated the west garage could accommodate 1,465 vehicles, and the north garage could accommodate 683, for a total of 2,148 vehicles. I mean do they really need that many spaces? They could eliminate the north garage all together, put a couple levels of the west garage underground, then add a couple on top, and that should accommodate the needs of the building, or vice versa.

It wouldn't suck! Panda, I think part of me wants OKC do just be better than OK. It's done so much yet holds itself back by poor decisons far too often. It frustrates me and I want this city to be great. I applaud all the progress and things that have been done over the years, but anyone tell me why a city like Tulsa can have several taller skyscrapers over 500 feet and we slap up a beautiful snow white and all the dwarfs around it? It just doesn't make any sense that we can't get one proposal over 500 feet.

Because it's not 1984 and office needs have changed.

If by "several" you mean three, then yes Tulsa has more 500'+ tall buildings in their downtown. OKC has two.

I guess they can claim that giant gold phallus Oral Roberts built so they have at least four city wide.

KayneMo and his idea was read and discussed in the meeting today. They distributed his model on paper to the group. Nice shout out to OKCTalk!

Just watched the video from the meeting. Here's a quick summary.
.

Hey, do you think you can post a link to this?

Because it's not 1984 and office needs have changed.

If by "several" you mean three, then yes Tulsa has more 500'+ tall buildings in their downtown. OKC has two.

I guess they can claim that giant gold phallus Oral Roberts built so they have at least four city wide.

You really seem to just be a bitter person. Like I said, just scroll on pal. If you really don't think that Tulsa has more of an impressive skyline with taller buildings currently than OKC, I really don't know what to tell you. OKC has a 1 building that is 500 feet besides the Devon. If you really think the Devon Tower would look awkward in that Tulsa skyline, you are nuts. You need a building or 2 that is about 60-70 percent at least to have some contrast. In OKC, the Devon towers over all by a LARGE margin, that is my point. It's just strange looking, and yes, people do notice it. Just quit responding to my posts if they bother you that much.

KayneMo and his idea was read and discussed in the meeting today. They distributed his model on paper to the group. Nice shout out to OKCTalk!

Just watched the video from the meeting. Here's a quick summary.


John Pickard of Pickard Chilton took them through a big presentation. Nothing he said was new as far as I could tell. Also had a landscape architect talk about the plaza.

Afterwards, most of the committee made comments, which included:


Disappointed there was no attempt to save any buildings.
Skybridges are not good urban planning and detracts from streetlife
Very concerned that only a parking garage will be located at Walker & Sheridan. Key intersection and Elementary school is right across the street. (several members echoed this point).
Depth of retail will not lend itself to many uses.
Retail space is only 2% of the total garage space.
Over 50% of the entire block will be parking.
There are three other adjacent parking garages; Devon garage in particular has similar materials. All this massing is a concern.
Why not eliminate north garage and add more levels to west garage? Why not add underground levels. (Pickard semi-addressed this one with a complete non-answer).
Clayco is proposing to build the most expensive apartments in town at Walker & Sheridan and will be looking into and on top of a parking garage.
Walker needs activity; key street and there is only blank parking in their proposal.


Pickard thanked everyone for the comments and said they were taking copious notes and their ideas to heart. (Reminder they have already submitted a design application for the next meeting. Could be supplemented / changed.)

The only citizen to speak was Jane Jenkins who is President of Downtown OKC Inc. She said she was there as a private citizen and her opinions were her own.

Her concern was the plaza. Said she offices in Leadership Square and never sees anyone using that large plaza, the one at SandRidge or BOK Plaza. Said that this building fronts Myriad Gardens all would be better served if the building would be pulled to corner and that the park be the doorstep rather than another vastly under utilized corporate plaza.

The committee thanked Pickard and that was that.

No one from Preservation Oklahoma spoke.

Let me say, I feel more than a little vindicated with this summary.

If you really don't think that Tulsa has more of an impressive skyline with taller buildings currently than OKC, I really don't know what to tell you.

A matter of pure subjectivity.


OKC has a 1 building that is 500 feet besides the Devon. If you really think the Devon Tower would look awkward in that Tulsa skyline, you are nuts. You need a building or 2 that is about 60-70 percent at least to have some contrast. In OKC, the Devon towers over all by a LARGE margin, that is my point. It's just strange looking, and yes, people do notice it. Just quit responding to my posts if they bother you that much.

I'm all for voicing one's opinion under the proper circumstances. That doesn't provide a blank check to post the same drivel over and over and expect everybody else to "just scroll on." Evened-out skylines are nice to look at, but what does it avail us if the buildings are empty because they built them for looks instead of building for what they think they need? Is GE going to leave because the buildings on the postcard are "strange looking"? The day businesses boycott the city because of its "strange looking" skyline is the day any serious consideration should be given to that topic. (Actually, those businesses should probably have their executive boards wiped clean.)

Taller doesn't necessarily equate to impressive. At the end of the day, what's going on inside the buildings is much more important than how bloody tall they are. On that note, I'll take the momentum OKC has going right now over whatever's going on up the Turner any day of the week.

You really seem to just be a bitter person. Like I said, just scroll on pal. If you really don't think that Tulsa has more of an impressive skyline with taller buildings currently than OKC, I really don't know what to tell you. OKC has a 1 building that is 500 feet besides the Devon. If you really think the Devon Tower would look awkward in that Tulsa skyline, you are nuts. You need a building or 2 that is about 60-70 percent at least to have some contrast. In OKC, the Devon towers over all by a LARGE margin, that is my point. It's just strange looking, and yes, people do notice it. Just quit responding to my posts if they bother you that much.

Are you 12?

Scroll on buddy. If you don't like my opinion, if you see my name just keep on scrolling. I think if more people rejected this as I do, it could make a difference. I believe that they have people checking out what the public thinks or at least I'd like to think they'd like to get a feel for what the general opinion is of this. If they see we are all excited about leveling the block for this mid rise, well we will have set our standards that this is what OKC basically is. As great as it is getting 5 towers in the 20-27 story range, I would much, much rather have 3 towers at about 35-45 story range.

As for the person who said the Devon would look funny in other major cities, I disagree. In fact it wouldn't even look out of place down the turnpike in Tulsa. They have other high rises that are in the 550 to 670 foot range. The Devon would be taller but it would not look awkward in Tulsa like it does in OKC. Can you all really not see how very few high rises OKC actually has? The Cotter Ranch is the second tallest at 500 feet and a few more in the 350 to 450 range. It just looks weird, sorry but it does. I have heard several times how beautiful the Devon is followed by it looks strange because all the other buildings look like midgets. That is the truth, that is what has been said, and this site needs more height and street interaction, not leveled and 2 more parking garages. If this mid rise was somewhere else, no complaints from me. BTW, did anyone see the new residential high rise that was just proposed in Austin? It is supposed to be the tallest one west of the Mississippi. I know we aren't Austin but the standards they have compared to OKC are literally night and day. I can't imagine anyone there being a little jealous of this 27 story project.

Hey guys, I hate to say this, but maybe soondoc is correct. Maybe Devon does stick out like a sore thumb from certain angles. Maybe real cities don't have one single skyscraper that towers above anything else nearby.

http://libertyunyielding.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Empire_State_Building_New-York.jpg

What do you think guys?

Hey guys, I hate to say this, but maybe soondoc is correct. Maybe Devon does stick out like a sore thumb from certain angles. Maybe real cities don't have one single skyscraper that towers above anything else nearby.

http://libertyunyielding.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Empire_State_Building_New-York.jpg

What do you think guys?

How dare you post that uncensored image of an architectural middle finger! My children cried after viewing that picture. I'll be reporting you to the FCC.

Hey guys, I hate to say this, but maybe soondoc is correct. Maybe Devon does stick out like a sore thumb from certain angles. Maybe real cities don't have one single skyscraper that towers above anything else nearby.

http://libertyunyielding.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Empire_State_Building_New-York.jpg

What do you think guys?

Dubai
http://www.silkinvest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/dubai-skyline.jpg

London
http://arpadlukacs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/975.-London-Skyline-from-Gypsy-Hill.jpg

Hong Kong Skyline
https://ucarecdn.com/e61fbcd6-9250-4176-a1b7-6a7043044a4b/

Taipei, Taiwan
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SooDcS_UJxQ/UYaLKaFa7OI/AAAAAAAABvI/RXP7so3xS_M/s1600/taipei_taiwan_china_skyline_night.jpg

I also believe San Francisco is about to get a building that is going to dwarf the rest of the skyline

What's interesting about that shot of Taipei is that it also includes the second-tallest tower in the city (the one with the lit crown and spire just to the left of Taipei 101). That building, called the Shin Kong Life Tower, is nearly the same height as Devon, while 101 is nearly 1,700 feet tall. No one as far as I know has ever complained about Taipei 101's height.

What's interesting about that shot of Taipei is that it also includes the second-tallest tower in the city (the one with the lit crown and spire just to the left of Taipei 101). That building, called the Shin Kong Life Tower, is nearly the same height as Devon, while 101 is nearly 1,700 feet tall. No one as far as I know has ever complained about Taipei 101's height.

That's because it didn't happen in OKC. :)

Steve's update.

Oklahoma City Downtown Design Review Committee panel asks developers of planned downtown tower to alter parking garage plans | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-downtown-design-review-committee-panel-asks-developers-of-planned-downtown-tower-to-alter-parking-garage-plans/article/5377322)


The architect and developer presenting plans for a 27-story office tower were cautioned Thursday they will face difficulty getting project approval from the Downtown Design Review Committee if plans aren’t changed for a garage to be built across from an existing garage and downtown’s new elementary school.
Committee Chair Betsy Brunstetter spoke first, saying the Hines project is flawed with “missed opportunities.”

“The big one is that even though you’ve made an attempt to save various portions of the buildings, there has not been a true attempt to save any of the buildings,” Brunstetter said. “The sky bridge is not good for urban planning. I know you have a client and the client has desires. But it’s not good for urban planning; it deactivates the streets.”



It appears that those who assumed this would just get an easy pass are completely mistaken.

Steve's update.

Oklahoma City Downtown Design Review Committee panel asks developers of planned downtown tower to alter parking garage plans | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-downtown-design-review-committee-panel-asks-developers-of-planned-downtown-tower-to-alter-parking-garage-plans/article/5377322)



It appears that those who assumed this would just get an easy pass are completely mistaken.

happily mistaken, I hope

Yeah, and I'll say, if this project was canceled in its current state, I would not be mad.