The traffic study might be the only thing that gets this delayed. Who pays for the upgrades to Walker?

Ben Felder ‏@benfelder_okg 2m2 minutes ago
Ainsworth was skeptical removing station, but told Box, “I think you’ve done great job making that corner memorable for that bus station.”

Ben Felder ‏@benfelder_okg 4s5 seconds ago
Tanenbaum, another DDRC member, says he is in favor of demolition. "That bus station is a mess."

Interesting question, given the required overhead wires:

OKC Streetcar ‏@OKCStreetcar 2m2 minutes ago
So a question about the 499 Development on Sheridan. Will the ped bridge over Hudson be tall enough to accommodate our streetcar under it?

That just kills me. Going by the tweets they spent the first portion of the meeting bemoaning the lack of transit that makes all this parking necessary, and one of the garages they want to build is going to be put up right next to the planned streetcar route on Hudson. The cognitive disconnect is nearly breathtaking.

Interesting question, given the required overhead wires:

OKC Streetcar ‏@OKCStreetcar 2m2 minutes ago
So a question about the 499 Development on Sheridan. Will the ped bridge over Hudson be tall enough to accommodate our streetcar under it?

Larry Nichols is probably going to demand there be no wires near his building and his park. That's why we might be spending more on streetcar vehicles than we really need to.

Larry Nichols is probably going to demand there be no wires near his building and his park. That's why we might be spending more on streetcar vehicles than we really need to.
They could not get under the BNSF bridge in and out of Bricktown.

[/B]
They could not get under the BNSF bridge in and out of Bricktown.

Yes I know - but that is a much shorter distance and would not require as much off wire capability. I said we might be spending more than we had to.

(And before the sycophants start crying foul, everyone knows about Nichols' pushing the city and MAPS staff toward the "no wires" system.)

Back to 499 Sheridan.......

From CaptDave:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dave011515.jpg

Motion made and seconded to demolish all buildings...

Motion is denied for all buildings are to be demolished.

Motion to demo all structures fails.

This city is frustrating.

Ben Felder ‏@benfelder_okg 1m1 minute ago
Vote to demolish Union Bus Station passes by DDRC.

Ben Felder ‏@benfelder_okg 28s29 seconds ago
DDRC is voting on each building individually. Appears total demolition will be approved.

Oh, nevermind. Now they're just going to vote to demolish them one-by-one. Everything approved to be demolished.

OKC's amazing unhistory continues.

Hm...

We'll see how this plays out in the coming moments. For a second I was hopeful, but...

I'm just ill.

Ben Felder ‏@benfelder_okg 32s32 seconds ago
Once again, DDRC voted to approve demolish city-wide block, including Union Bus Station, to make way for #499Sheridan development. #OKC

Looks like there was only one vote against demolishing the bus station, no opposition at all to the others.

Good day for the progress of OKC

Steve's OKC Central ‏@stevelackmeyer 45s45 seconds ago
Demo approval includes requirement that the Lunch Box sign, Union Bus Station sign be incorporated into new development.

Good day for the progress of OKC

Stop trolling.

I'm sure this has been stated multiple times, but I've forgotten in all this hysteria. But, once approved, will they seek to begin development immediately? We're talking within the next 30-90 days correct?

Stuff like this makes me glad I left.

Good day for the progress of OKC

Admit to everyone you have a massive woody right now.

Good day for the progress of OKC

If "progress" includes a city having no history or identity, then yes. New tourism slogan, "OKC: A Generic City for Cars."

I'm sure this has been stated multiple times, but I've forgotten in all this hysteria. But, once approved, will they seek to begin development immediately? We're talking within the next 30-90 days correct?

Yes, my understanding is that they want to demo everything and start construction ASAP.

Steve's OKC Central ‏@stevelackmeyer 2m2 minutes ago
Plans for new 27-story tower, two new parking garages approved by committee with enhanced facade for Walker side of garage.

So frustrating... Old people making the decisions for a city the rest of us will inherit. Wish we had an under 35 voice on the DDRC or at least someone who truly understood the changing dynamics of the millennial generation's preferences for urban areas.

So frustrating... Old people making the decisions for a city the rest of us will inherit. Wish we had an under 35 voice on the DDRC or at least someone who truly understood the changing dynamics of the millennial generation's preferences for urban areas.

This occurred to me after Allison Barta Bailey (30) spoke against the demolitions.

That younger people probably are more inclined towards preservation, and they are always held out as vital to a city's future. See the recent Gazette article about millenials and all the traction that received.

Admit to everyone you have a massive woody right now.

Probably not a massive...but nonetheless

OKC has some issues. Serious issues.

I by no means am a preservationist but to demo 9 buildings in one fell swoop is pretty disheartening

Probably not a massive...but nonetheless

OKC has some issues. Serious issues.

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-29481-Ryan-from-The-Office-agrees-gi-1MNe.gif

That just kills me. Going by the tweets they spent the first portion of the meeting bemoaning the lack of transit that makes all this parking necessary, and one of the garages they want to build is going to be put up right next to the planned streetcar route on Hudson. The cognitive disconnect is nearly breathtaking.

Breathtaking, extremely convenient, same thing...

If "progress" includes a city having no history or identity, then yes. New tourism slogan, "OKC: A Generic City for Cars."

Unfortunately I would say that ship sailed a long time ago for OKC. Having or not having these buildings really won't make that much of a difference in terms of whether or not the city has history or character. In reality these buildings, except for the Bus station, are not unique or memorable in any way. Stage Center was significantly more important than this block considering its architectural significance. This is more symbolic than anything. It's finishing the job that began in the 1960s with urban renewal.

I by no means am a preservationist but to demo 9 buildings in one fell swoop is pretty disheartening

Ah! You forgot to add for two parking garages and a single 27 story building with no attempt to incorporate any of the existing structures.
That almost makes it hurt worse.

I can only imagine years down the road seeing this 433 ft. tower mixed in with the Motor Hotel, or Hotel Black, perfectly balancing old with new. Past with future. Showing visitors and other cities that it is possible to make the two work. Things like that add character to a city.

This continues the glass kingdom ruled by King Nichols. Sterile, generic...

But, it's done. I imagine when this project is done, we'll all be impressed with it, but still questioning in the backs of our minds what could have been, or what should have been.

So frustrating... Old people making the decisions for a city the rest of us will inherit. Wish we had an under 35 voice on the DDRC or at least someone who truly understood the changing dynamics of the millennial generation's preferences for urban areas.

Sooooo right. If I ever owned anything as awesome as Hotel Black I'd be the happiest man alive. Its buildings like this that really add charm to a city, and could have so many different uses. Shame on you Devon.

This occurred to me after Allison Barta Bailey (30) spoke against the demolitions.

That younger people probably are more inclined towards preservation, and they are always held out as vital to a city's future. See the recent Gazette article about millenials and all the traction that received.

Every OKC millenial that I know, many of whom have been vital in OKC's renaissance, are really disheartened by this. As a millenial who always hoped to move back to OKC, I'm not really sure I'm interested anymore. It's not just that the buildings are coming down, but the corrupt process. I thought OKC was a city moving in a direction that I could believe in, but the city government is clearly more oligarchical than democratic. It's shameful to make dishonest arguments as were made by those who really make decisions in OKC. And as Pete has meticulously shown, this is not the only area where decisions are being made behind closed doors without concern for how it's done.

I can only imagine years down the road seeing this 433 ft. tower mixed in with the Motor Hotel, or Hotel Black, perfectly balancing old with new. Past with future. Showing visitors and other cities that it is possible to make the two work. Things like that add character to a city. .

It really would not have been very difficult to accomplish that. But Hines had their marching orders......

Ah! You forgot to add for two parking garages and a single 27 story building with no attempt to incorporate any of the existing structures.
That almost makes it hurt worse.

I can only imagine years down the road seeing this 433 ft. tower mixed in with the Motor Hotel, or Hotel Black, perfectly balancing old with new. Past with future. Showing visitors and other cities that it is possible to make the two work. Things like that add character to a city.

This continues the glass kingdom ruled by King Nichols. Sterile, generic...

But, it's done. I imagine when this project is done, we'll all be impressed with it, but still questioning in the backs of our minds what could have been, or what should have been.

Hey! Don't forget the two signs they are saving. They put their mighty foot down on the destruction of those signs.

This occurred to me after Allison Barta Bailey (30) spoke against the demolitions.

That younger people probably are more inclined towards preservation, and they are always held out as vital to a city's future. See the recent Gazette article about millenials and all the traction that received.

And it's nothing against generations that have grown out of their 30s, they just don't seem to get it (at least in this state). There are many younger posters here that aren't preservationists, have no background in urban design, or architecture, but we all seem to "get it" more than the majority of the design and planning committees in OKC. The same can be said of people over 40 here, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem to extend very far outside of OKCtalk. Not sure why people with credentials to be on those committees don't seem to get it and I don't understand how they've continually been placed on them. We need to find a way to get some younger blood in the decision making groups in OKC.

And it's nothing against generations that have grown out of their 30s, they just don't seem to get it (at least in this state). There are many younger posters here that aren't preservationists, have no background in urban design, or architecture, but we all seem to "get it" more than the majority of the design and planning committees in OKC. The same can be said of people over 40 here, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem to extend very far outside of OKCtalk. Not sure why people with credentials to be on those committees don't seem to get it and I don't understand how they've continually been placed on them. We need to find a way to get some younger blood in the decision making groups in OKC.

The other side of that is there are plenty of under 35 sycophants that will parrot the company line - we've seen it in this thread.

And it's nothing against generations that have grown out of their 30s, they just don't seem to get it (at least in this state). There are many younger posters here that aren't preservationists, have no background in urban design, or architecture, but we all seem to "get it" more than the majority of the design and planning committees in OKC. The same can be said of people over 40 here, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem to extend very far outside of OKCtalk. Not sure why people with credentials to be on those committees don't seem to get it and I don't understand how they've continually been placed on them. We need to find a way to get some younger blood in the decision making groups in OKC.

+1

OKC needs some people in control that understand that we are almost a quarter of the way through the 21st century. The postwar era and the development practices that defined the latter 20th century is over.

So we are getting 2 new garages, removal of bike lanes for car lanes, and a sky walk. You will be able to film apocalyptic movies in this part of downtown at 2:00 PM on a Monday....

Well guys, its been real but this decision has me wondering if I even give a crap anymore. If BoulderSooner and the other suspects are happy with the city they are building for themselves who am I to stand in the way? OKC might have just fallen into Howard Kunstler's category of places not worth caring about.

And it's nothing against generations that have grown out of their 30s, they just don't seem to get it (at least in this state). There are many younger posters here that aren't preservationists, have no background in urban design, or architecture, but we all seem to "get it" more than the majority of the design and planning committees in OKC. The same can be said of people over 40 here, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem to extend very far outside of OKCtalk. Not sure why people with credentials to be on those committees don't seem to get it and I don't understand how they've continually been placed on them. We need to find a way to get some younger blood in the decision making groups in OKC.

I think that's because, generally speaking, younger people are the ones more likely to live near and take advantage of downtown amenities.

Every single study shows that vibrant urban areas are very high on the list of younger people when they look at staying or moving somewhere else. And those studies also link young people as critical to the success of any city.


I'm sure the average age of the DDRC is well over 50 and may be close to 60.

This is profoundly upsetting -- and I'm not a millennial.

Every OKC millenial that I know, many of whom have been vital in OKC's renaissance, are really disheartened by this. As a millenial who always hoped to move back to OKC, I'm not really sure I'm interested anymore. It's not just that the buildings are coming down, but the corrupt process. I thought OKC was a city moving in a direction that I could believe in, but the city government is clearly more oligarchical than democratic. It's shameful to make dishonest arguments as were made by those who really make decisions in OKC. And as Pete has meticulously shown, this is not the only area where decisions are being made behind closed doors without concern for how it's done.

Very much in the same boat. I would love to come back to OKC and was looking into doing it as soon as next year. But WOW this whole process has been really eye opening, and not in a good way. Every city has its good ol' boy club (including the one I'm in), but to see such a brazen kleptocracy operate with such audacity, its pretty shocking. I'm trying to think of a place with such a similar situation and I simply cannot.

I used to tell friends in different cities how proud I was of this town and how young people's thoughts really mattered. Now, I'm really not so sure OKC is the place I thought it was.

And it's nothing against generations that have grown out of their 30s, they just don't seem to get it (at least in this state). Not sure why people with credentials to be on those committees don't seem to get it and I don't understand how they've continually been placed on them. We need to find a way to get some younger blood in the decision making groups in OKC.

The 'rubber stamp' committee seal of approval is no stranger.

I'm 55, work in the engineering world and I think this is one of the laziest design excersizes I've ever been witness to. My stomach's churning.

Every OKC millenial that I know, many of whom have been vital in OKC's renaissance, are really disheartened by this. As a millenial who always hoped to move back to OKC, I'm not really sure I'm interested anymore. It's not just that the buildings are coming down, but the corrupt process. I thought OKC was a city moving in a direction that I could believe in, but the city government is clearly more oligarchical than democratic. It's shameful to make dishonest arguments as were made by those who really make decisions in OKC. And as Pete has meticulously shown, this is not the only area where decisions are being made behind closed doors without concern for how it's done.

I don't know if I would go that far (though I definitely agreee with your comments about the process). That kind of discounts all the great things that are happening outside of the CBD. It is extremely frustrating though. It seems like such an easy answer.

Of course this isn't the end of the world or anything. At least these are being replaced with a nice looking building and while the garages are not ideal, if they actually make use of the retail frontage, this could be a decent area.. having said that it won't be nearly as "cool, hip, or aesthetically pleasing" on the street level as renovated versions of the current structures.

You can add my name to the chorus of expats who once entertained the idea of returning to OKC but have suddenly lost all interest in the idea.

I will probably get strung up for this, but, here goes. I totally get it with the frustration and disapointment with this whole deal. I love old buildings with character and unique design and architecture. I love the cities of the east part of the US and look forward to seeing as much of Europe as possible when I retire. It seems to me some folk on here are taking this personally. One poster posted that they were glad they left because of things like this. Seems a little narrow minded to me. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion and feelings. This will not diminish my love for and pride for OKC at all. This is done and us "small" folk can't stop it. Move on to the next battle and hope for a better outcome. That's my 10cents worth. p

I think that's because, generally speaking, younger people are the ones more likely to live near and take advantage of downtown amenities.

Every single study shows that vibrant urban areas are very high on the list of younger people when that look at staying or moving somewhere else. And those studies also link young people as critical to the success of any city.


I'm sure the average age of the DDRC is well over 50 and may be close to 60.

Whats the point of having your headquarters built downtown if you want to attract employees who would rather live out in the suburbs? Why aren't they interested in building a downtown that people would actually want to be in? And not just come there because there job is there & then leave at 5:00 pm? Soooo frustrating.

Did the DDRC folk wear Bill Engval masks when they said Here's your sign to the preservationists?

Just curious

Whats the point of having your headquarters built downtown if you want to attract employees who would rather live out in the suburbs? Why aren't they interested in building a downtown that people would actually want to be in? And not just come there because there job is there & then leave at 5:00 pm? Soooo frustrating.

So they will consume more of the company's product.

A lot of our city leaders must think Houston is a nice downtown.

Every city has its good ol' boy club (including the one I'm in), but to see such a brazen kleptocracy operate with such audacity, its pretty shocking. I'm trying to think of a place with such a similar situation and I simply cannot.


The Ukraine (also funded by oil money)

A lot of our city leaders must think Houston is a nice downtown.

Not sure if that was supposed to be joke - but the answer to that question is Yes. There is now zero doubt that civic leaders think Houston is what OKC should look like when it grows up.