As a condition of building in OKC (they threatened to go to Houston) Devon insisted all their property and sales tax be spent on the Myriad Gardens and Project 180, and while 60% of P180 was cut, everything around Devon HQ was completed and completed first.

They merely loaned all the money to the city upfront (with interest) so all that work would be done around the time they opened their building.

no doubt

but they also could have just requested the max tif for just their building infrastructure and parking and not used it for the public good ... and P180 being scaled back doesn't really have anything to do with Devon

no doubt

but they also could have just requested the max tif for just their building infrastructure and parking and not used it for the public good ... and P180 being scaled back doesn't really have anything to do with Devon

It has to do with them because Nichols sat on the committee that determined the priorities of P180 and all the stuff that benefitted Devon got done.

They also got a sweetheart deal on the propety which was owned by the city.


But, it is absolutely fair to say they didn't take TIF and put it in their own pocket. And I've said many times that Larry Nichols has done more to reshape downtown than anyone. But everything accomplished was with money from Devon or the city, not him personally (although he did make a personal donation to complete Centennial Park).

It has to do with them because Nichols sat on the committee that determined the priorities of P180 and all the stuff that benefitted Devon got done.

They also got a sweetheart deal on the propety which was owned by the city.


But, it is absolutely fair to say they didn't take TIF and put it in their own pocket. And I've said many times that Larry Nichols has done more to reshape downtown than anyone.

that is fair ..

i just meant when it comes to the P180 forecast/project cuts ect ... that they didn't run that project the city public works did ..

Here, it is a mix.

Sometimes the city gives the money upfront and more recently (after a light started to be shined on their process) they began to shift towards providing property and sales tax abatement.

But they still give some developers money upfront before they've built anything. That's exactly what is being proposed at Strawberry Fields and the Omni demanded the city give them the full amount before they spent a dime of their own money. In that case, the city was hit with tens of millions of interest charges on top of the tens of millions given the Omni.


That thing with the Omni still burns my arse. I knew the Alliance was on a deadline to submit the full financial package to City Council and the day it was due (there is a deadline for compliance with open meetings law) I saw it hit the public agenda, quickly downloaded it, saw there was a huge finance charge involved that was not disclosed in dollar amounts, and immediately picked up the phone to call Cathy O'Connor. Within minutes I saw a full story in the Oklahoman about this very subject and with quotes from O'Connor and others. The Alliance obviously leaked it to Lackmeyer who of course just published what they fed him and never bothered to ask about the significant finance charges.

I was steaming by the time O'Connor called me back because it was an obvious manipulation of the facts. She refused to give me a number but there is absolutely no way they are proposing a massive financial deal without having all the details. So, I called the Director of Finance for OKC and he quickly gave me the run-down. In the addition to the $85 million in freebies given to the Omni, there would be a whopping $53 million (!!!) in interest costs.

Of course we were the only outlet to even bother to research this issue while the Oklahoman happily just reported $85 million.


It's things like this that causes me to keep a very sharp eye on the Alliance in general and TIF in particular because absolutely no one else is.

When I looked at the TIF budgets last fall it seemed like maybe there was some borrrowing back and forth between the funds, especially the older, bigger funds.

I know we've paid a hefty interest bill particularly for earlier projects, but if I recall, we do have quite a bit of funds "on hand".

^
If the Alliance wants a project, they will move heaven and earth: completely new districts, carving out areas for existing ones, borrowing money, selling profitable parking garages... Whatever it takes.

People have no idea how much power they have. Basically a few people spending billions of taxpayer money with very little understanding and no approval by the public.

I definitely support that. TIF has shifted from something used to finance the occaional project like the Skirvin where traditional finance would fail into a means by which developers pad the bottom line as a general rule. When it's used to develop cool, historical properties fine. When it's used to develop Wal Marts and $500/sq. ft. cottage developments next to railroad tracks, it's not fine. I'm doubting it passes both houses or will be signed by the Governor though. Our current leadership doesn't seem likely to get between subpar developers and their bottom lines.

I ask this in all seriousness. TIFs are investments in "A" thru tax breaks (revenues you weren't receiving anyway) in order to (hopefully) reap benefits through new tax revenues generated by "A", both directly and through other resulting tax sources. I realize there are TIFs for total long-shot projects and there are TIFs for sure things like Panasonic.

If 1. money is fungible and 2. there were no significant tax revenues being generated by the unused land - why are you against providing an incentive (investment) in order to reap MORE revenues you weren't going to get without the TIF? A $ in new tax revenue is superior to no $ in tax revenue.

While l understand the corporate welfare issue and l wish they were outlawed, they aren't going to be.

I ask this in all seriousness. TIFs are investments in "A" thru tax breaks (revenues you weren't receiving anyway) in order to (hopefully) reap benefits through new tax revenues generated by "A", both directly and through other resulting tax sources. I realize there are TIFs for total long-shot projects and there are TIFs for sure things like Panasonic.

If 1. money is fungible and 2. there were no significant tax revenues being generated by the unused land - why are you against providing an incentive (investment) in order to reap MORE revenues you weren't going to get without the TIF? A $ in new tax revenue is superior to no $ in tax revenue.

While l understand the corporate welfare issue and l wish they were outlawed, they aren't going to be.

I think you assume that the development couldn't happen without the TIF. I think a lot of these developments could happen without TIF--and when that happens, our schools in particular are being hammered by missing out on millions in ad valorem revenues which are now going to pay for bonds for development which would happen with or without TIF. Municipalities are building Wal Marts with TIF.

the Chamber helped defeat a bill that would have required voters to approve all tax increment finance districts within the entire jurisdiction of the TIF. If passed, that law would have had a negative impact on a municipality or county’s ability to generate development funds for public improvements within that TIF area.

Link (https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/policy/2023-legislative-session-a-success-for-chamber-priorities/?back=super_blog&fbclid=IwAR27bduuMq4unB85lsZHQkLisFO0b9lXvKTQ7vPrv stoE1HRIdDqAPTam5Y)

And as a reminder, this constant reference to TIF being used for "public improvements" is completely wrong and keeps getting repeated.

The huge percentage of TIF funds are used for private development.

Link (https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/policy/2023-legislative-session-a-success-for-chamber-priorities/?back=super_blog&fbclid=IwAR27bduuMq4unB85lsZHQkLisFO0b9lXvKTQ7vPrv stoE1HRIdDqAPTam5Y)

And as a reminder, this constant reference to TIF being used for "public improvements" is completely wrong and keeps getting repeated.

The huge percentage of TIF funds are used for private development.

TIF, I think has experienced a bit of mission creep. At first, it was for unique projects which needed a boost in order to be viable. Now nearly every developer, from Wal Mart to random overpriced tiny houses in downtown Edmond demand taxpayers subsidize their development efforts--mostly at the expense of public schools.

The reason a lot of folks think TIF = public improvements is because that was how it was originally sold.

The reason a lot of folks think TIF = public improvements is because that was how it was originally sold.

Not to keep picking on them, but the Oklahoman uses that wording in virtually every single article they write on this subject.

The specific wording I quoted that you quoted was a very recent document from the Chamber which was specifically addressing their success in defeating legislation that would require a public vote for new TIF. They frequently use this wording in their efforts and it's just flat-out misleading and factually wrong.

Not to keep picking on them, but the Oklahoman uses that wording in virtually every single article they write on this subject.

The specific wording I quoted that you quoted was a very recent document from the Chamber which was specifically addressing their success in defeating legislation that would require a public vote for new TIF. They frequently use this wording in their efforts and it's just flat-out misleading and factually wrong.

The Oklahoman has always, even in its current incarnation, been a mouthpiece for the Chamber. Sometimes that's served the community well in that we had a newspaper that was a cheerleader for the business community. In other instances, it hasn't done us favors by making deliberate word chocies to frame issues in a misleading way.

It was once valid that developments like the Skirvin Hilton and Devon would benefit ad valorem revenues by not only increasing the value of their own properties in the long run, thus leading to greater future collections once the bonds were retired, but they would be a rising tide to lift all boats. That is no longer valid when every single other boat is also jumping into the TIF bandwagon. Now we're basically seeing spec homes using TIF and that is getting into the absurd.

^
And since Cathy O'Connor became a paid consultant for developers, she is taking the TIF money grab all over the state.

There was a big, puffy article in the Oklahoman about a proposed development in Chichasha and it never once mentioned that there is a new big proposed TIF district as the heart of all of that, and that Cathy O'Connor is involved.

O'Connor is also the paid consultant for the Block 405 project, the one where the proposed developer probably couldn't get a secured credit card due to owing money all over town, yet, somehow, she had lined up millions in free tax dollars for him.

O'Connor is also the paid consultant for the Block 405 project, the one where the proposed developer probably couldn't get a secured credit card due to owing money all over town, yet, somehow, she had lined up millions in free tax dollars for him.

And how much of that has been arranged under the OKC Alliance? The quasi-public, "private" "not-for-profit" which is immune from open records requests? Such a farce. It should be illegal.

And how much of that has been arranged under the OKC Alliance? The quasi-public, "private" "not-for-profit" which is immune from open records requests? Such a farce. It should be illegal.

ALL of it is arranged through the Alliance and outside of open meetings and records laws.

I say this over and over, but by the time the public sees anything everything has already been negotiated and although committee and Council approvals are ultimately required, each has provided 100% approval over the many years of this program which demonstrates there is no real oversight at all.

We are talking about BILLIONS of taxpayer money being spent in this way, and people are freaking out over toaster ovens and BBQ restaurants which are a tiny fraction of the amounts involved here.

ALL of it is arranged through the Alliance and outside of open meetings and records laws.

I say this over and over, but by the time the public sees anything everything has already been negotiated and although committee and Council approvals are ultimately required, each has provided 100% approval over the many years of this program which demonstrates there is no real oversight at all.

We are talking about BILLIONS of taxpayer money being spent in this way, and people are freaking out over toaster ovens and BBQ restaurants which are a tiny fraction of the amounts involved here.
Would this be a form of socialism for the well off?

Would this be a form of socialism for the well off?

I think it would fail definitionally there. Socialism is the means of production being owned by the State. Nothing is really owned here by the State except for a promise they have from the developer to retire bonds from the increased ad valorem taxes which would have gone mostly to schools.

It's definitely a form of subsidy, but socialism? I don't think that works.

Question for the board: What projects do you think are worth TIF money? I will list mine and would like to know what others think:

1. Skirvin
2. Wheeler
3. First National
4. 21 C (even though it is now going to a Hyatt, it would be difficult to get it to cash flow without it)

I am sure there are others out there, but those are the ones that I think of immediately.

Question for the board: What projects do you think are worth TIF money? I will list mine and would like to know what others think:

1. Skirvin
2. Wheeler
3. First National
4. 21 C (even though it is now going to a Hyatt, it would be difficult to get it to cash flow without it)

I am sure there are others out there, but those are the ones that I think of immediately.

Devon ??
pretty much every downtown housing project in the last 20 years ..


21 c would be way way way down the list ..

Devon ??
pretty much every downtown housing project in the last 20 years ..


21 c would be way way way down the list ..

I was going to include Devon, but the use of the TIF funds were completely different than the others on the list. The only reason I said 21c is it, along with the apartments, just started development on the west side of downtown. And a big chunk at that.

Question for the board: What projects do you think are worth TIF money? I will list mine and would like to know what others think:

1. Skirvin
2. Wheeler
3. First National
4. 21 C (even though it is now going to a Hyatt, it would be difficult to get it to cash flow without it)

I am sure there are others out there, but those are the ones that I think of immediately.

I would have voted for the Skirvin. First National would be a maybe.

The other two? Not a chance. The price of properties in Wheelers should support that development with a nice margin of profit. 21C isn't an historic project. It was an eyesore.

But arguably all 4 of those aren't bad uses of TIF money. Trouble is, that nowadays, your run of the mill strip mall or housing development isn't getting built without hitting up our funding for local public schools. It would be pretty instructive if someone was to compile a list of all TIF bonds currently issued just to illustrate how much our schools have been shorted to support mostly mediocre devlepment.

The City ought to assemble a task force to whittle down the criteria necessary for TIF money. Development should be a certain size, maybe require there to be an historic aspect to the development, etc. Clearly, leaving it up to the discretion of the powers that be seems to simply mean that everything which gets to a vote gets a pass.

More TIF Districts are on the way according to a recent report from the Alliance:

Adventure District (we know Block 405 was to be part of this, but that now seems dead)
Gold Dome
Other districts unnamed by in progress


The Gold Dome will be interesting. I believe this is still the Temple Live music concept. However, Jonathan Russel bought that property 8 years ago for $1.1 million, has done absolutely nothing with it (it's a neglected eyesore) and has been asking $3 million.

If this TIF award turns out to be for 'gap funding' -- and that's what 98% of them are for -- and Russell gets anywhere near his asking price, then serious discussions are due regarding if these public giveaways are really needed for development or if they are just being used to line the pockets of flippers; especially if in this case the funding gap is less than $2 million.

I like the idea of a little public investment in keeping the Gold Dome around, but I would also like that money to not go to a clown show.

More TIF Districts are on the way according to a recent report from the Alliance:

Adventure District (we know Block 405 was to be part of this, but that now seems dead)
Gold Dome
Other districts unnamed by in progress


The Gold Dome will be interesting. I believe this is still the Temple Live music concept. However, Jonathan Russel bought that property 8 years ago for $1.1 million, has done absolutely nothing with it (it's a neglected eyesore) and has been asking $3 million.

If this TIF award turns out to be for 'gap funding' -- and that's what 98% of them are for -- and Russell gets anywhere near his asking price, then serious discussions are due regarding if these public giveaways are really needed for development or if they are just being used to line the pockets of flippers; especially if in this case the funding gap is less than $2 million.

These are the worst instances of TIF imo, when money is awarded for a project on a property that had been bought and held by a speculator. Russell has had multiple properties like this get awarded TIF money to people he sells to. Meanwhile he didnt do a thing to improve those properties, he just bought them and then put back on the market at a much higher price and then point out to prospective buyers that they can get TIF money to make their project work. This is where TIF money has skewed the market and inflated property values.

These are the worst instances of TIF imo, when money is awarded for a project on a property that had been bought and held by a speculator. Russell has had multiple properties like this get awarded TIF money to people he sells to. Meanwhile he didnt do a thing to improve those properties, he just bought them and then put back on the market at a much higher price and then point out to prospective buyers that they can get TIF money to make their project work. This is where TIF money has skewed the market and inflated property values.

Once the old downtown Holiday Inn sale closes (also owned by Russel where he did absolutely nothing) we'll see how much profit he made there.

That project is already lineup up for TIF as well.

I like the idea of a little public investment in keeping the Gold Dome around, but I would also like that money to not go to a clown show.

I'm under the impression that due to the fact that it's in a design review district, it is going to be much more difficult to demolish the Gold Dome than it was to demolish Founders Bank, First Christian Church, etc.

Is this correct?

I'm under the impression that due to the fact that it's in a design review district, it is going to be much more difficult to demolish the Gold Dome than it was to demolish Founders Bank, First Christian Church, etc.

Is this correct?

Yes. David Box (previous owner) tried to demolish it once before but was thwarted.

I'm looking forward to the 2024 Annual reports whenever those come out - those should be the first reports that have more of the inflation baked into certain valuations which will give a better idea of the pace we are at within each TIF vis-a-vis the budget.

With the 2022 Annual reports from last fall, this is what I could make out with the state of TIF in OKC at the end of FY 2022:

1. Life-to-Date (LTD) We had spent $89.2M more than we've brought in. That current deficit is like 85% owing to the OMNI.

2. There is a TON of back and forth movement LTD in terms of Debt proceeds/servicing. Ultimately, we have $260.6M debt outstanding, but $78.8M funds available, so really, we have about ~$180M of debt associated with TIF and there's something with the OMNI debt that is coming from outside of TIF (~$43M)

3. If we take the $89M deficit plus the $79M available plus $3M outstanding encumbrances plus $12M active debt reserves plus $43M from OMNI ($226M), it would appear, based on our $260M outstanding debt that we have incurred ~$34M of interest cost with TIF so far.

4. The Devon TIF put out $90M in bonds in FY22 which should mean the city has an advantaged interest rate for some time as back then rates were half of what they are today.

5. We are bringing in ~$35M annually as of FY22 for tax receipts. The lion's share of that comes from the Devon and general downtown TIFs.

6. The Convention/C2S district desperately needs park-front development to improve the shape of that TIF (#13) - given the state of Strawberry Fields and Mazaheri's penchant for sitting on property, the city is probably going to take a bath on the OMNI deal - by the time significant increases in property values start occurring in TIF #13, the interest accrued on such a substantial sum will kill the budget on this one. $83.5M in the red with <$3M coming in annually.

7. The Wheeler TIF is refreshing to see. You can tell that this area is going to do very well and that the TIF funds here are ultimately a great use of community resources. With no debt, if they stopped today, they'd reach 50% of the TIF goal and obviously this whole area is in its infancy. I wouldn't be surprised if the TIF ends up bringing in twice what it was supposed to.

I'm going to try to track this from year to year, so while I don't think 2023 report will be as interesting as 2024, it's probably be worth updating this post.

^ Thank you for your reporting on this.

Did anyone here attend the public meeting at OCU last night about the proposed Classen corridor tif district? I wanted to attend but had other commitments.

Did anyone here attend the public meeting at OCU last night about the proposed Classen corridor tif district? I wanted to attend but had other commitments.

https://nondoc.com/2024/04/26/north-classen-tif-district-spurs-questions-about-okcs-housing-needs/

I'm looking forward to the 2024 Annual reports whenever those come out - those should be the first reports that have more of the inflation baked into certain valuations which will give a better idea of the pace we are at within each TIF vis-a-vis the budget.

With the 2022 Annual reports from last fall, this is what I could make out with the state of TIF in OKC at the end of FY 2022:

1. Life-to-Date (LTD) We had spent $89.2M more than we've brought in. That current deficit is like 85% owing to the OMNI.

2. There is a TON of back and forth movement LTD in terms of Debt proceeds/servicing. Ultimately, we have $260.6M debt outstanding, but $78.8M funds available, so really, we have about ~$180M of debt associated with TIF and there's something with the OMNI debt that is coming from outside of TIF (~$43M)

3. If we take the $89M deficit plus the $79M available plus $3M outstanding encumbrances plus $12M active debt reserves plus $43M from OMNI ($226M), it would appear, based on our $260M outstanding debt that we have incurred ~$34M of interest cost with TIF so far.

4. The Devon TIF put out $90M in bonds in FY22 which should mean the city has an advantaged interest rate for some time as back then rates were half of what they are today.

5. We are bringing in ~$35M annually as of FY22 for tax receipts. The lion's share of that comes from the Devon and general downtown TIFs.

6. The Convention/C2S district desperately needs park-front development to improve the shape of that TIF (#13) - given the state of Strawberry Fields and Mazaheri's penchant for sitting on property, the city is probably going to take a bath on the OMNI deal - by the time significant increases in property values start occurring in TIF #13, the interest accrued on such a substantial sum will kill the budget on this one. $83.5M in the red with <$3M coming in annually.

7. The Wheeler TIF is refreshing to see. You can tell that this area is going to do very well and that the TIF funds here are ultimately a great use of community resources. With no debt, if they stopped today, they'd reach 50% of the TIF goal and obviously this whole area is in its infancy. I wouldn't be surprised if the TIF ends up bringing in twice what it was supposed to.

I'm going to try to track this from year to year, so while I don't think 2023 report will be as interesting as 2024, it's probably be worth updating this post.

Update for FY 2023 (which ended June 2023)

1. Life-to-Date (LTD) we have spent $85.8M more than we've brought in. In the hole are TIF 8 @ $18M, TIF 10 @ $16M & TIF 13 @ $80M. TIF 10 (FNB) & TIF 13 (OMNI) have a deficit of >35% of their respective TIF's overall budget.

2. We have $224.4M debt outstanding and $70.4M in available + $19.7M in committed funds (we had $15.1M in 2022 which I did not previously report, but should have).

3. It appears we have paid approximately $48.5M in Interest LTD. I think we're currently paying around $9.8M/year in interest on debt. I believe $2.99M of net interest expense in 2023 came from TIF 13 (OMNI) alone. It looks like we collect $2.34M in Interest/Income from assets held.

4. We are now bringing in $38.75M for tax receipts. $34M in Ad Valorem & $4.75 in Sales/Hotel Tax.

5. TIF #4/#5 (SW OKC - Dell Campus) looks to have grown its budget from $28.203M in 2022 to $34.203M in 2023 with no explanation as to what is going on. The TIF #4/#5 statement honestly makes no sense when you compare it to the prior year.

6. Obviously this is not MAPS, but it's worth noting we've spent about $85.8M more than we have collected over the life of TIF, which is 20% more expenses than revenues.

7. Some of my math and thought processes for last year's post can't have been correct. I looked at the time and I guess I posted that at 1:30 AM - not my best work lol.