That I 100% agree with.

Who gets approved -- and who speaks for, against or not at all in these meetings -- depends entirely on who is applying.

That should be obvious by now.

We should at least pull in the old renderings to see whether this is what the garages are supposed to look like. If you see post 320 (page 13), it at least appears like there is supposed to be some materials advertising Film Row and the development covering the middle and sides of the garage. Is this still what's planned?

For easy reference (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=39529&p=999111#post999111)

Agreed. This should be the standard for all projects, I guess.

My point is that we have selective judgement, not just enforcement in this city. If a garage serves a bar or an apartment building, it seems to be okay, no matter what it looks like or where it is. If it serves an office building, it is bad, no matter how much employment and income it brings to downtown. I just don't get it.

What is not to get?

Parking garages that are used for residential and entertainment/restaurant see use basically 24 hours a day, every day. Parking garages in the core that are not intended for either of these two items, see use basically Mon-Fri 8-5pm. This is why mixed-use is touted. Throw residential on top of a garage and put retail/entertainment/restaurant at the bottom. This scenario would provide the garage being used constantly - thus is not a giant concrete monolith of nothing outside of 40 hours a week.

The other developments that have garages that are getting roasted are getting roasted because their completed garages look terrible. That is clearly different from this situation where construction is still on-going. If we get to the end of this construction and these garages also look terrible with the final finishes, I won't be complementary towards them either.

For easy reference (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=39529&p=999111#post999111)

Looks to me like there will only be brick on the first floor, so it's almost done. The rest will either be bare or painted, right?

For current page reference:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/residences071715a.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/residences071715c.jpg

Paint, what looks like a film row specific mural or two, and maybe some decoration on the corners.

What is not to get?

Parking garages that are used for residential and entertainment/restaurant see use basically 24 hours a day, every day. Parking garages in the core that are not intended for either of these two items, see use basically Mon-Fri 8-5pm. This is why mixed-use is touted. Throw residential on top of a garage and put retail/entertainment/restaurant at the bottom. This scenario would provide the garage being used constantly - thus is not a giant concrete monolith of nothing outside of 40 hours a week.

That is some kind of rationalization. I would compare the commerce of the two any day. And if we truly have investors really willing to bring destination retail downtown, the garages don't have to sit empty in the evenings and weekends.

By the way, residential garages tend to empty during the day when the residents leave. They don't just use parking garages to store cars.

For current page reference:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/residences071715a.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/residences071715c.jpg

Paint, what looks like a film row specific mural or two, and maybe some decoration on the corners.

So, a little paint on pre-cast concrete slabs is okay? This is what goes for "quality" architecture?

There's also what looks like some sort of decorative element on the corners (and the brick along the bottom too). It doesn't look like bland blahness, which is the primary difference I am looking at when comparing these renderings and the finished BoK garages.

Paint on concrete .... lipstick on pig. At least BofO garage has good looking street level with architectural detail and facade over the raw concrete structure. Those elements aren’t cheap and they are an attempt to disguise the garage. There is no mistaking these garages as pre-cast concrete parking garages.

From yesterday.

Note: Steel is going up on Building C, between Jones and the new parking garage on Sheridan. Also, they have torn up the parking lot to the east of the Main Street parking garage and have started on those apartments as well.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c121017.jpg

With the parking garage now open on Sheridan, the two lots on either side of the Main Street garage have now been cleared for construction.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c122317a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c122317b.jpg

This whole development is just so remarkable. It’s amazing to see what can transpire when creative vision meets willing (and nearly unlimited) access to capital.

This whole development is just so remarkable. It’s amazing to see what can transpire when creative vision meets willing (and nearly unlimited) access to capital.

Look at the date of when this thread was started, that adds to the amazement for me. We have many threads on this website going back twice as long and still not completed.

What are the chances of Sonic and Taco Bell ever being bought out of those locations? I know TB just recently renovated. It’d be great to seem them replaced with urban developments, but how willing are fast food chains to do so?

What are the chances of Sonic and Taco Bell ever being bought out of those locations? I know TB just recently tenovated. It’d be great to seem them replaced with urban developments, but how willing are fast food chains to do so?

Based on how busy both sonic and TB are at lunch time during the work week I would guess it would take a large check. Didn't McDonald's get $1 million for ODOT to buy several parking spaces of ROW for the BLVD?

Everytime I see these pictures I can't help but notice Sonic and Taco Bell...small structures on large areas of land. The value of those properties must have really gone up.

If Sonic was smart or willing, with their HQ being just down the road, they'd make that location the flagship and use it to try out new items and the like, and find a way to blend in with the development. Maybe even (and this is a long shot down the road deal after more is developed) they would work in more walk up and biking visitors.

If Sonic was smart or willing, with their HQ being just down the road, they'd make that location the flagship and use it to try out new items and the like, and find a way to blend in with the development. Maybe even (and this is a long shot down the road deal after more is developed) they would work in more walk up and biking visitors.

I am curious if that location is a franchise or corporate owned. If it is a franchise, good lunch getting the franchisee to upgrade it. If it is corporate owned, then there might be a possibility.

True, that's a caveat I left out but would be a limiting factor for sure.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hallcap2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/westdowntown.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hallmusic.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21cnow.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c1st.jpg


Comparing the most recent images to those in Pete's first post... simply astonishing what has been done. When I first saw the "live music/restaurant" building... I was like "meh.. probably be lame... WTH are they thinking". How. Wrong. I. Was. Hall family for Mayor(s)!!

With the parking garage now open on Sheridan, the two lots on either side of the Main Street garage have now been cleared for construction.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c122317a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c122317b.jpg

Are they going to do anything more to that parking garage? It is very ugly in its current state.

Paint on concrete .... lipstick on pig. At least BofO garage has good looking street level with architectural detail and facade over the raw concrete structure. Those elements aren’t cheap and they are an attempt to disguise the garage. There is no mistaking these garages as pre-cast concrete parking garages.

There are dozens of this type of apartment project in "walkable" Denver. Whether urban or suburban, they all have parking garages. I really don't understand your issue with them. They are part of life. OKC isn't Manhattan.

There are dozens of this type of apartment project in "walkable" Denver. Whether urban or suburban, they all have parking garages. I really don't understand your issue with them. They are part of life. OKC isn't Manhattan.
I have nothing against parking faciities. It’s just that these are unattractive, don’t incorporate any pedestrian interaction on the ground floor, and are cheap looking at a key entrance to the district.

If Sonic was smart or willing, with their HQ being just down the road, they'd make that location the flagship and use it to try out new items and the like, and find a way to blend in with the development. Maybe even (and this is a long shot down the road deal after more is developed) they would work in more walk up and biking visitors.

Apologies in advance if you're already aware of this - Sonic Corporate already has their flagship store in the middle of Lower Bricktown, just west of their corporate HQ and in the plaza directly north of the Harkins Theater. They do not serve drive-in customers, however - it's a walk-in location only. I've been to a few product testing and focus group panels there before. All of that said, the location that you are speaking of would be a perfect location for a blended Urban model store, one that has expanded walk-up/walk-in capabilities but could still serve a more limited number of drive-in customers as well. I'd love to see something like that happen... No idea if Sonic corporate has any prototypical urban store plans drawn up yet, but they really should consider it!

I did know that, thanks for the heads up.

Apologies in advance if you're already aware of this - Sonic Corporate already has their flagship store in the middle of Lower Bricktown, just west of their corporate HQ and in the plaza directly north of the Harkins Theater. They do not serve drive-in customers, however - it's a walk-in location only. I've been to a few product testing and focus group panels there before. All of that said, the location that you are speaking of would be a perfect location for a blended Urban model store, one that has expanded walk-up/walk-in capabilities but could still serve a more limited number of drive-in customers as well. I'd love to see something like that happen... No idea if Sonic corporate has any prototypical urban store plans drawn up yet, but they really should consider it!
It may have changed, but about 7-8 years ago I had foreign interests wanting to explore a non-drive up model for their urban areas in their countries and Sonic had no interest in developing that concept.

It may have changed, but about 7-8 years ago I had foreign interests wanting to explore a non-drive up model for their urban areas in their countries and Sonic had no interest in developing that concept.

I mean, considering that their brand identity is built around the "Drive-in" concept, I can understand the lack of interest in a non-drive up model - but given that they've had operators successfully run locations in shopping mall food courts and in at least one airport, not to mention their walk-in only flagship store in Bricktown, all operating during that time frame, I'm a bit surprised at the total disinterest in further walk-in stores. I certainly hope that mindset has changed or at least softened a little.

I have nothing against parking faciities. It’s just that these are unattractive, don’t incorporate any pedestrian interaction on the ground floor, and are cheap looking at a key entrance to the district.

There are a ton of developments in OKC to criticize. This isn't one of them. This and the Steelyard will definitely raise the bar in terms of what is expected for mixed-use developments downtown. I'm looking forward to seeing it finished out.

There are a ton of developments in OKC to criticize. This isn't one of them. This and the Steelyard will definitely raise the bar in terms of what is expected for mixed-use developments downtown. I'm looking forward to seeing it finished out.
Steelyard hid their parking. This development put it right out front and is a very basic concrete garage. Glad you love it.

Steelyard hid their parking. This development put it right out front and is a very basic concrete garage. Glad you love it.

He may not love it, but he isn't letting great be the enemy of good.

Steelyard hid their parking. This development put it right out front and is a very basic concrete garage. Glad you love it.

I’m with you on this. All this money and great design, but the parking seems front and center in every shot. Disappointing.

I think the one in the middle on Main will be fine once it's sandwiched between apartments, but I can't understand for the life of me why they put the apartments right next to jones instead of the garage. I mean, on concert nights, those people ain't getting much sleep, so you'd think they'd want a sound barrier the size of a garage anyway.......

Steelyard hid their parking. This development put it right out front and is a very basic concrete garage. Glad you love it.

The Steelyard development was built on a veritable blank slate of land roughly three times the size of this area between 21c and the Jones. Plus the Steelyard land backs up to abandoned railroad tracks instead of being surrounded by city streets and a beautiful boutique hotel. The Steelyard had way more options available to them in planning their layout. I wouldn't consider this an apt comparison to make.

That being said, I do agree that the garage could be done better, but I'm willing to wait for completion before I judge it too harshly.

I mean, considering that their brand identity is built around the "Drive-in" concept, I can understand the lack of interest in a non-drive up model - but given that they've had operators successfully run locations in shopping mall food courts and in at least one airport, not to mention their walk-in only flagship store in Bricktown, all operating during that time frame, I'm a bit surprised at the total disinterest in further walk-in stores. I certainly hope that mindset has changed or at least softened a little.

I would assume their reluctance is because they don't want to get away from their core competency. I can see wanting that site to be more urban now that the area is getting built up, but that Sonic has been there for years and until just several months ago there was not much there. Plenty of room for parking and a drive-in restaurant.

I think the one in the middle on Main will be fine once it's sandwiched between apartments, but I can't understand for the life of me why they put the apartments right next to jones instead of the garage. I mean, on concert nights, those people ain't getting much sleep, so you'd think they'd want a sound barrier the size of a garage anyway.......

Not mention the view from the apts on the west side. I would rather look over west OKC (as bad as it is right now) than look at a parking garage wall.

From today:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c012018.jpg

What a presence that makes.

Does anybody have an estimate in terms of when this development will be complete?

Another view of the bricks going up, from The Downtown Development (https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds/status/958000546547486720) twitter:


Bricks are installed on the West Village apartments/commercial building along Sheridan Ave (just east of @theJonesOKC (https://twitter.com/theJonesOKC)).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUuAZklV4AAiq9Z.jpg:large

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c021118a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c021118b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c021118c.jpg

Really excited for this project. It's coming along nicely. I'm still a bit disappointed by the free standing garages but overall this is going to be nice.

There are so many monstrous parking garages in that last pic... I can't not look at them. (I spy 14 free standing garages!)

Really excited for this project. It's coming along nicely. I'm still a bit disappointed by the free standing garages but overall this is going to be nice.

There are so many monstrous parking garages in that last pic... I can't not look at them. (I spy 14 free standing garages!)

I would think at the very least, these two new west village garages would be built with small ramp areas and flat floors, so that when they become completely unnecessary in a few short years, they can easily be converted into housing or office. Cant do that when each floor is unlevel. Plenty of other developers are doing this in other big markets, as they see autonomous cars lessening the demand for parking.

Does anybody know when this is supposed to finally be completed?

I think a lot of people underestimate how massive this area is and what it will do for downtown. The phrase "game changer" is overused on OKCTalk but this is one development where I think it legitimately applies.

Completely finished is going to take more than a year.

The first units in the building just east of Jones will be ready this fall.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c022518a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c022518b.jpg

Hopefully the brick facade makes those of you who felt uneasy about the parking garages, sleep a little easier tonight.

Hopefully the brick facade makes those of you who felt uneasy about the parking garages, sleep a little easier tonight.

Just so you know, I think that is just about it for the brick on that building.

Maybe a bit more on the west end near the entrance/exit but the rest will be painted or stucco.

Hopefully the brick facade makes those of you who felt uneasy about the parking garages, sleep a little easier tonight.
The second is better than the first, but still not good. It is sandwiched so it will be less noticeable. The other is at the entrance and has major presence on two highly trafficked streets. The whole project is nice, but they did the minimum on the garages.

In the plans they had stucco on parts of the now-concrete. And also had large advertisements on some of the now-concrete giant walls.

Also I think I remember seeing a Film Row District logo on one of them.

Hopefully all those things are still coming.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c031518a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c031518b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c031518c.jpg

Is that garage in the last photo pretty much finished? It seems to be the most bizarrely unfinished looking garage I've ever seen.

Honestly, I love the fact that this area is booming and being developed; however, the aesthetic of this entire development is not pleasing. It just seems like the designs of the apartments and the garages are not to the high standards that 21C and Jones have.

I've been thinking the same thing every time I drive by.

Reminder that this is Arrive Architecture, the same group that designed Maywood II.

I wonder if they are going to paint these garages where they are not bricked ?

I wonder if they are going to paint these garages where they are not bricked ?

Yes, the concrete will be painted but I don't think either is going to have any more brick than what you already see.

Reminder that this is Arrive Architecture, the same group that designed Maywood II.

Didn't realize. That would have set my expectations low from the onset. Oops.

Overall I'm pleased with the development, but the ugly parking garage looming over everything is a real downer.