Actually it is very rare for meeting planners to reference cities as anything less than tier 3. Not to be rude here, but I question your "industry experience."

A quick google search reveals we are actually a tier 2 city, by their definitions of course:

Second-Tier Destinations | www.themeetingmagazines.com (http://www.themeetingmagazines.com/acf/site-selection-second-tier-destinations/)

http://www.buses.org/files/ConnectMagazine%20Second%20Tier%20Cities.pdf

Now if I were just guessing, were are probably on the low end of a tier II status. But the tier definitions are really not that complicated, and I can see why OKC is tier II:

Defining First, Second and Third Tier Meeting Destinations | Blog.empowerMINT.com (http://blog.empowermint.com/site-venue-inspection-selection/defining-first-second-and-third-tier-meeting-destinations/)

Again, all this is straight from the horse's mouth. No bias here.

Question all you want, the bottom line is, there s no official "tier" system within the convention industry. Those are the facts. Also, as your own link states, tiers are subjective and that's exactly what mine ranking was, subjective to my reasoning.

I'm going to have to side with Josh on this one. Our convention center is nowhere near a tier two. Tier 3 at best, but I would still agree with Josh that we are at a tier 4 right now. Our CC sucks.

bchris: if there is no official system then how could Josh be right? You appear to have a knack to disagree or challenge anything I post without regard or fact.

At least I and adaniel provided facts/websites to back up our claims, vs. an opinion of the cox convention center. BTW, convention status is rated more than just the main cc. Last I thought, OKC had more facilities than just the cox.

Adaniel provided a website that showed OKC was indeed tier 2. I trust that and will pull a Bchris that "Adaniel is right." even though I still think OKC is probably in the upper tier 3 personally.

Has Josh, Plu, or Bchris provided anything to support their claim that OKC is a tier 4 or 5 (is there such a thing?). Is San Antonio a Tier 1? Does Indy get so many conventions that it is a Tier 1 too? Facts don't back those assertions nor do they support OKC being a tier 4 or 5 either.

bchris: if there is no official system then how could Josh be right? You appear to have a knack to disagree or challenge anything I post without regard or fact.

At least I and adaniel provided facts/websites to back up our claims, vs. an opinion of the cox convention center. BTW, convention status is rated more than just the main cc. Last I thought, OKC had more facilities than just the cox.

Adaniel provided a website that showed OKC was indeed tier 2. I trust that and will pull a Bchris that "Adaniel is right." even though I still think OKC is probably in the upper tier 3 personally.

Has Josh, Plu, or Bchris provided anything to support their claim that OKC is a tier 4 or 5 (is there such a thing?). Is San Antonio a Tier 1? Does Indy get so many conventions that it is a Tier 1 too? Facts don't back those assertions nor do they support OKC being a tier 4 or 5 either.

First off u generally agree with what you post so I'm not sure why you would say i have a knack for diagnosing with you.

Now, are you really defending the Cox CC? it is horrible small for a city of our Stock Exchange

Uh

Yep.

Lost in the convention center debate is the fact that there are numerous facilities around OKC that have picked up the slack the Cox Center generates. The number one generator of conventions in this area is the equestrian industry. These groups will likely never step foot in the Cox Center; they are likely going to the State Fair Arena among other places. Remember that when the why do we keep spending money at the fairgrounds? threads pop up. There is also numerous hotels, meeting spaces, etc. that other groups are going to.

This is of course not to say that the Cox is okay; if anything, this should bolster the argument that there is a demand for conventions in OKC and the Cox as it stands is a hindrance. But if we were really a Tier 4 or 5 city, why even bother sinking over a quarter billion dollars into a new center?

I believe in looking at yourself objectively, but to insinuate that OKC is a Tier 4/5 convention market is not only somewhat insulting, but factually untrue and proven so by a simple Google Search.

Ranally city rating system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranally_city_rating_system)

Josh is right. The Cox Convention Center just doesn't cut it for anything more than a local/regional convention. I would say even Tulsa gets more.

That will all change though when the new convention center is constructed. I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of exposure the convention center will give OKC and the amount of out of state dollars it will bring in. This is going to be a game changer.

I agree with you.

no guys, Im not defending the ccc at all. I support the new cc and want it done RIGHT!

Im just saying OKC is more of a convention market than some of you give it credit for. It's not the best, but it certainly is not a Tier 4 or 5.

Plu, btw, I was addressing that to Bchris - it appears as if he often disagrees with me without much basis. Almost like, I say one thing then he'll chime in and agree with the other person. It's a little annoying and while he's entitled to his opinion it's hard for me to respect his when he shows some consistency to always disagree with me. I can tell where Plu gives his opinion but Bchris states his like its fact when more times than not its a restatement of what somebody else wrote or comparing OKC unfavorably to its peer cities (as on city-data).

Yep.

Lost in the convention center debate is the fact that there are numerous facilities around OKC that have picked up the slack the Cox Center generates. The number one generator of conventions in this area is the equestrian industry. These groups will likely never step foot in the Cox Center; they are likely going to the State Fair Arena among other places. Remember that when the why do we keep spending money at the fairgrounds? threads pop up. There is also numerous hotels, meeting spaces, etc. that other groups are going to.

This is of course not to say that the Cox is okay; if anything, this should bolster the argument that there is a demand for conventions in OKC and the Cox as it stands is a hindrance. But if we were really a Tier 4 or 5 city, why even bother sinking over a quarter billion dollars into a new center?

I believe in looking at yourself objectively, but to insinuate that OKC is a Tier 4/5 convention market is not only somewhat insulting, but factually untrue and proven so by a simple Google Search.

this, followed by the following sentence was my point as to why OKC is higher than tier 4/5. ... Its more than just a rating of Cox, it's the market.

That bolded sentence is why OKC should shoot for the best Tier 2 convention center it can since it already competes as a Tier 2 for those events at the fairgrounds and elsewhere.

no guys, Im not defending the ccc at all. I support the new cc and want it done RIGHT!

Im just saying OKC is more of a convention market than some of you give it credit for. It's not the best, but it certainly is not a Tier 4 or 5.

Plu, btw, I was addressing that to Bchris - it appears as if he often disagrees with me without much basis. Almost like, I say one thing then he'll chime in and agree with the other person. It's a little annoying and while he's entitled to his opinion it's hard for me to respect his when he shows some consistency to always disagree with me. I can tell where Plu gives his opinion but Bchris states his like its fact when more times than not its a restatement of what somebody else wrote or comparing OKC unfavorably to its peer cities (as on city-data).

I understand my bad.

Plu, btw, I was addressing that to Bchris - it appears as if he often disagrees with me without much basis. Almost like, I say one thing then he'll chime in and agree with the other person. It's a little annoying and while he's entitled to his opinion it's hard for me to respect his when he shows some consistency to always disagree with me. I can tell where Plu gives his opinion but Bchris states his like its fact when more times than not its a restatement of what somebody else wrote or comparing OKC unfavorably to its peer cities (as on city-data).

I don't disagree with you just to disagree with you. I apologize if it seems that way. However, having been in numerous convention centers in other cities however, I cannot believe that the Cox Convention Center is a Tier 2 venue. If that is the case then great. I know OKC has other convention space such as at the fairgrounds but current facilities just don't measure up from what I've seen. Now once the new convention center is built, then I would agree that a Tier 2 (or 1A) rating is well deserved.

Nice little story putting us as a tier 2 city but I have a feeling the tiers can be manipulated just by changing the parameters.

Second-Tier Cities | www.themeetingmagazines.com (http://www.themeetingmagazines.com/cit/second-tier-cities-4/)

Nice little story putting us as a tier 2 city but I have a feeling the tiers can be manipulated just by changing the parameters.

Second-Tier Cities | www.themeetingmagazines.com (http://www.themeetingmagazines.com/cit/second-tier-cities-4/)

You can continue to provide evidence that says we are tier two, but I've found that people rarely change their mind even when provided with facts.

I recently stayed at a double tree, & they are nice and all but if it was announced that double tree would be our convention center hotel I'd be extremely disappointed.

I stayed at the DoubleTree in downtown San Diego over Christmas one year... it was actually a very nice hotel. Agreed that we should be shooting for a higher end brand for our CC hotel though.

You can continue to provide evidence that says we are tier two, but I've found that people rarely change their mind even when provided with facts.

That article and ranking is not fact. No more or less than a list/ranking of "the best cities for shopping" or "best food truck city" or "the worst city for vacationing." etc.

There is no official tier system in place to rank or gauge markets with regard to conventions.

My list was based on my opinion as well as any others presented in this thread, including those made by other posters.

Josh. You stated your opinion as fact and then challenged other posters to show you evidence otherwise. Now you are taking their evidence and saying it's opinion just like yours. At least their 'evidence' is from actual convention industry sites.

I just kind of wonder if all those thousands that come in here annually for horse shows are considered 'conventioners'. If that's the case, then were bigger than most would think.

Josh. You stated your opinion as fact and then challenged other posters to show you evidence otherwise. Now you are taking their evidence and saying it's opinion just like yours. At least their 'evidence' is from actual convention industry sites.

I never stated my opinion as fact. I always stated my opinion with the preference of it being my opinion. I then disagreed with someone else's ranking or statement then said I'd be interested in hearing how they arrived to it. I never said that person was wrong. No need to it words or statements in my mouth.

Maybe you misconstrued something or misread my posts but I assure you, you are wrong.

Well... you're correct... You never used the term fact. You did say you arrived at your opinion through researachable data though and that it wasn't biased. That's as close to saying your opinion is based on facts as you can get without saying it. Funny that there doesn't seem to be any researchable data that shows OKC is a Tier4/5 market.

CVent ranks destinations each year. According to them, OKC isn't one of the top 50 US convention destinations at this time based on available rooms, available rooms for a single booking in a single hotel, convention and meeting venues, etc.

CVent ranks destinations each year. According to them, OKC isn't one of the top 50 US convention destinations at this time based on available rooms, available rooms for a single booking in a single hotel, convention and meeting venues, etc.
So if you broke that into 4 tiers, OKC wouldn't be in it, interesting.

I also question OKC being a tier 2 city in regards to the Cox Convention Center, specifically. What are the chances the tier depends on overall convention/meeting space which could include the fairgrounds? We are the horse show capital of the world and I can almost guarantee that brings more business in from out of town than the CCC.

Oklahoma City will have a lot to offer for the convention industry if we are able to build a convention center hotel complex on the proposed site. One that will include a name brand 700-900 plus room hotel along with the recommendation of the advisory group about a larger convention center.

Study suggests Oklahoma City can support $200 million, 735-room conference hotel | News OK (http://newsok.com/study-suggests-oklahoma-city-can-support-200-million-735-room-conference-hotel/article/3914440)

OKC's MAPS 3 board favors plans for larger convention center | News OK (http://newsok.com/okcs-maps-3-board-favors-plans-for-larger-convention-center/article/5345672)

If what's proposed for the new convention center complex gets completed; we'll be able to compete with many cities in our catagory.

Population: We are the 42nd largest metro area; 27th largest by central city.

Our Goal: We need to be at least among the top 35 convention center cities in the United States.

The NBA has brought positive name recognition for OKC. We need to continue to build & expand our reputation.

Well... you're correct... You never used the term fact. You did say you arrived at your opinion through researachable data though and that it wasn't biased. That's as close to saying your opinion is based on facts as you can get without saying it. Funny that there doesn't seem to be any researchable data that shows OKC is a Tier4/5 market.

Your straw man argument aside, I stated I used searchable data to form my opinion. That's how most sensible people from an opinion. What I used to base my ranking on was things like city and metro wide convention space, number of yearly events, size of those events, number of hotel rooms, etc.

As for your last line, you obviously won't find anything that shows OKC is a T4/T5 convention city, because that was my ranking and because there are no official rankings.

CVent ranks destinations each year. According to them, OKC isn't one of the top 50 US convention destinations at this time based on available rooms, available rooms for a single booking in a single hotel, convention and meeting venues, etc.

This is the truth and reality of the matter. I understand the civic pride and I was in no way trying to insult OKC with my ranking list, I was just being honest with regard to the reality of the situation as I see it.

Our current convention abilities is an embarrassment for a city this size and with the aspirations we have. It is like building a home with no living room or expecting to entertain in the garage after you've invited guest to come see you.

Final answer. OKC tier 2 city with new CC/Hotel over 700 rooms. Ask the mayor.

OKC will be going after conventions that go to places like Denver,Stl,KC after the new digs are built. BTW,those are all tier 2 cities as well.

Geez. What does it matter what arbitrary ranking we fall under?

Convention planners don't just look at a list and pick one based on where it is on a list. If we have the square footage they need, amenities they need, and a block of dates that are what they need they will pick us.

This argument is as useful as the skyscraper argument in the other thread. In the end it doesn't matter where it falls on some list -- professional or amateur.

Final answer. OKC tier 2 city with new CC/Hotel over 700 rooms. Ask the mayor.

OKC will be going after conventions that go to places like Denver,Stl,KC after the new digs are built. BTW,those are all tier 2 cities as well.

I doubt OKC would compete with Denver, as the conventions they get are the large type that require the type of exhibition space their 2.2 million square foot convention center allows. The new OKC convention center still wouldn't be large enough to accommodate those type of large conventions.

I also question OKC being a tier 2 city in regards to the Cox Convention Center, specifically. What are the chances the tier depends on overall convention/meeting space which could include the fairgrounds? We are the horse show capital of the world and I can almost guarantee that brings more business in from out of town than the CCC.

I would consider visitors to horse shows as "convention attendees."

Horse shows alone probably allow us to have a much larger visitor/tourism pool despite the state of the Cox.

In this argument, I think its important to parse out the state of the convention center (which is pretty poor) and the state of the local convention/visitor market (which is actually pretty decent despite said crappy convention center).

Your straw man argument aside, I stated I used searchable data to form my opinion. That's how most sensible people from an opinion. What I used to base my ranking on was things like city and metro wide convention space, number of yearly events, size of those events, number of hotel rooms, etc.

As for your last line, you obviously won't find anything that shows OKC is a T4/T5 convention city, because that was my ranking and because there are no official rankings.

So we are supposed to believe something that you simply made up on the fly while ignoring conclusions from professional publications (i.e. people who do this for a living). Mmmkay.

You are more than welcome to have the last word.

Geez. What does it matter what arbitrary ranking we fall under?

Convention planners don't just look at a list and pick one based on where it is on a list. If we have the square footage they need, amenities they need, and a block of dates that are what they need they will pick us.

This argument is as useful as the skyscraper argument in the other thread. In the end it doesn't matter where it falls on some list -- professional or amateur.

Good point.

The tier system is more of a mystical conversation piece used as a gauge as to how you measure up to other cities.

If you have the space & rooms available for occupancy; that will be the whole thing in a nutshell. We need some great chefs and/or some church sisters to serve up some great tasting cuisine.

We have a national memorial downtown, an outstanding zoo, Oklahoma City Museum of Art, National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum and a Smithsonian (American Indian Cultural Center & Museum) on the way.

So we are supposed to believe something that you simply made up on the fly while ignoring conclusions from professional publications (i.e. people who do this for a living). Mmmkay.

You are more than welcome to have the last word.

You don't have to believe anything. I simply stated my opinion. If you disagree, you're more than.entitled to do so and to state that disagreement. Not sure why you're so upset about it. There's no need for an inferiority complex over a arbitrary ranking I compiled.

Again, there is no official ranking system for convention cities, so a publication with a convention cities tier ranking list is no different than nerdwallet and their "lists" and rankings that "professionals" put together on their site. It's no different, imo.

My guess is that horse shows bumps OKC's ranking up quite a bit.

Having been to other cities that are listed with OKC and seen their convention center, the Cox facility doesn't even come close. The Statehouse Convention Center in Little Rock is on the same level except it doesn't have an arena like the Cox does. They do have a better hotel. This is not an attack on OKC or its convention status, but its a fact about the current facility. If OKC is in fact already a tier 2 and wants to keep its status, as well as attract a broader variety of conventions beyond horse shows, as well as compete with its peer cities, the new CC complex is an absolute must-have. It may not compete with Denver, but OKC can become the dominant convention city in the state as well as compete with cities like Kansas City, Indy, and Charlotte for national conventions.

As for rating cities by tier, it matters because competition among cities is what drives OKC to demand better.

Our current convention abilities is an embarrassment for a city this size and with the aspirations we have. It is like building a home with no living room or expecting to entertain in the garage after you've invited guest to come see you.

+10.

I recently stayed at a double tree, & they are nice and all but if it was announced that double tree would be our convention center hotel I'd be extremely disappointed.

When this thread started the Doubletree reference was about a hotel north of the airport that is changing to a Doubletree brand. It had nothing to do with a convention center hotel. Somehow it evolved into something totally different. (which is not unusual here. LOL)

When this thread started the Doubletree reference was about a hotel north of the airport that is changing to a Doubletree brand. It had nothing to do with a convention center hotel. Somehow it evolved into something totally different. (which is not unusual here. LOL)

It happens A LOT here.

When this thread started the Doubletree reference was about a hotel north of the airport that is changing to a Doubletree brand. It had nothing to do with a convention center hotel. Somehow it evolved into something totally different. (which is not unusual here. LOL)


You're correct Ijbab728,

We hijacked this thread; it became our free-for-all. How much conversation would you expect to get from a DoubleTree without getting Double-crossed?

apology accepted Bchris, and thank you for being humble. I do accept and sorry if my post was a bit harsh as we often do agree when it comes to other city comparisons (just I kind of see things more half full :)).

As to the tier 2 argument, Bellaboo: yes I do believe it is the horse shows that tips the scale for OKC. I believe OKC is the #1 horse show center of the country (or very close to the top); so with that and the native american things going on and various local - it probably does make OKC a weak Tier 2 in most rankings. It's the ONLY reason I could think of that the publications I/adaniel/nwokcguy and others have found online supporting OKC actually being a major market.

As I stated, me personally I believe OKC is probably a legitimate Tier 3 but probably a little higher than our sister Tulsa in that we have more hotels and probably more facilities/access overall. Tulsa obviously has a certain downtown advantage given their larger cc and 2 medium sized convention hotels (smart thinking of them. ..). But its the extras in OKC that pick up the slack of the Cox. Off my head; LazyEArena, State Fair Arena, other fairgrounds buildings/barns, Lloyd Noble Center, Rose College whatever they have, OCU has venues as does OU (and likely UCO?), FAA, perhaps Tinker. All of these could host conventions, conference, delegated events (horse shows) or organized meetings that probably do indeed add up.

Also consider all of the hotel 'convention centers' in the metro; they all add to the OKC market possibly being ranked Tier 2 (or 3). One thing I think we all can agree on is that YES - Cox is an embarrassment for the city and the building itself is likely a Tier 4 as Josh mentions. But one must also consider that OKC has facilities elsewhere that bring the market up, perhaps considerably.

We still need the new cc to maintain (or achieve) true Tier 2 status. Just don't mess with the other Maps projects. ...