I would agree that the bidding process and how certain contractors win certain jobs and negotiate for great profits with ODOT is something which could do with some looking in to. That said, when I see announcements like this, I have to chuckle any time I hear someone bristling at Amtrack receiving state and federal subsidy.

Okay, I'll bite on your first sentence...are you suggesting bid rigging or what?

OK, what does "limited access" mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway

Interchanges, not intersections.


Interchanges only at select locations, like the turnpikes or interstate highways in rural areas, where interchanges or access points are spaced more than a mile apart. also know as controlled access.

Doesn't have to be spaced more than a mile, just the main lanes of traffic don't have to slow or stop at crossings. They are basically just expanding a city road at this point, not making into a real highway.


My thoughts exactly. Yes, this stretch of highway is way past due for an upgrade, but the same amount of money would fund Oklahoma's share of the Heartland Flyer's current operating cost for just about a decade.

I am a believer in PT funding, but there are probably more people serviced by this section of road in a day than would ride the Heartland Flyer in a year. Looks like the traffic load is currently 32K cars per day. So ~40K people a day. I also rank metro infrastructure higher than vacation infrastructure.

I am a believer in PT funding, but there are probably more people serviced by this section of road in a day than would ride the Heartland Flyer in a year. Looks like the traffic load is currently 32K cars per day. So ~40K people a day. I also rank metro infrastructure higher than vacation infrastructure.

Just to clarify: I wasn't trying to say that this project shouldn't have been built, and instead that money set aside for the Heartland Flyer. My point was to illustrate how comparatively little money is required to keep the Heartland Flyer going across it's full 206-mile route vs rebuilding 3 miles of highway, as a counter-argument to those who try and say that the train costs too much. The amount spent on keeping the Heartland Flyer going is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money spent on road projects. Additionally, according to ODOT (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/Maps/aadt/2016/55-Oklahoma.pdf), in 2016 the section of road under construction served 12400 vpd on average (or just under 21k people per day, assuming a national average of 1.67 people per vehicle [SOURCE: USDOT 2009 NHTS Avg. Vehicle Occupancy (Persons) (http://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/fatcat/2009/avo_TRPTRANS_WHYTRP1S.html)]). Also, just like commercial aviation, the Heartland Flyer is much more than "vacation infrastructure"; Amtrak reports (https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/stateeconomicimpactbrochures/Oklahoma-fy16.pdf) that only 55% of the passengers that rode the Heartland Flyer in FY2016 did so for tourism/leisure reasons. Just like with flying, there are many that ride Amtrak for business reasons too.

All of that said, I apologize for steering this thread away from the topic (even if it is tangentially related)... Let's get back to talking about the SH74 widening project. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway

Interchanges, not intersections.

Doesn't have to be spaced more than a mile, just the main lanes of traffic don't have to slow or stop at crossings. They are basically just expanding a city road at this point, not making into a real highway

You’re right, doesn’t have to be a mile. Could be more, could be less. Just using that as an example. Controled or limited access only allows entering or exiting the roadway at designated locations. The new section of SH74 between Memorial and 150th is controled access, ..... and is a real highway.

I would agree that the bidding process and how certain contractors win certain jobs and negotiate for great profits with ODOT is something which could do with some looking in to. That said, when I see announcements like this, I have to chuckle any time I hear someone bristling at Amtrack receiving state and federal subsidy.

The bidding process should eliminate negotiating with ODOT for great profits. With incentives built in contacts to finish early and penalties for slow work, I'm not sure what you are talking about anymore - Unless you are insinuating there is bid rigging going on. If so, where?

Side note - appears they’ve broken ground on the town homes development off 164th just E of 74.... think originally going to be called Portland Pointe but can’t seem to find any updated info. Any insight would be much appreciated

Side note - appears they’ve broken ground on the town homes development off 164th just E of 74.... think originally going to be called Portland Pointe but can’t seem to find any updated info. Any insight would be much appreciated

Aren't they also building an Oncue on the NW corner of that intersection? I turn South off of 164th everyday but that lot is not visible due to the countours of the ground there. I don't know if they have even started working on it.

From that map posted it looks like the 4 lane is completely on the Grove side of 74 from 178th to 192nd st. Any one know if thats accurate? If so, what would they do with current road and intersection in place at 192nd?

They are really humming along on this project. Although, the stop and go traffic at Danforth and Portland is just crazy. Pete, might be an interesting drone project when you aren't busy. :)

drove this road heading south today and man 164th needs an overpass very very badly ... ( as does 178th and 192nd)

seems like a big fail by odot when the did this project ..

drove this road heading south today and man 164th needs an overpass very very badly ... ( as does 178th and 192nd)

seems like a big fail by odot when the did this project ..

ODOT was incredibly short sighted with this entire project. Had a major chance to drive massive investment in this area and didn't have the foresight to see the need!

YES. 74 is NO BETTER than driving any of the other arterial north/south roads like May, Penn, or Western because you have to stop.at.every.single.light. Not to mention people just go the same speed in both lanes so you never get to pass -- not that it matters because you hit all the lights. Oh yeah, already mentioned that. LOL. An absolute fail of the worst kind by ODOT.

The least they can do is time the lights N/S so you don't have to stop every mile.

I haven't been north of 164th on that road in at least a couple of years. Are they at least keeping the option there for creating a limited access highway situation? Meaning, are they building feeder roads and/or at least keeping curb cuts from sprouting? It may be a lot to ask, but if they aren't going to build overpasses and entrance/exit ramps right now, they could at least avoid having parking lots opening up directly onto that road.

As an aside, and I know they are different entities, but it boggles my mind that the state is proposing and moving ahead with these loop roads way out in the sticks while ignoring this highway. They are getting very close to the time when it will be too late to do anything meaningful here.

drove this road heading south today and man 164th needs an overpass very very badly ... ( as does 178th and 192nd)

seems like a big fail by odot when the did this project ..

If I recall correctly an overpass is still on the horizon, but like a lot of ODOT project this route upgrade got cut into phases. However priority order or funding seemed to have changed as I think it has been on the 8 year plan more than 8 years, and is still not scheduled to receive the funds till FFY 2026.

I haven't been north of 164th on that road in at least a couple of years. Are they at least keeping the option there for creating a limited access highway situation? Meaning, are they building feeder roads and/or at least keeping curb cuts from sprouting? It may be a lot to ask, but if they aren't going to build overpasses and entrance/exit ramps right now, they could at least avoid having parking lots opening up directly onto that road.

As an aside, and I know they are different entities, but it boggles my mind that the state is proposing and moving ahead with these loop roads way out in the sticks while ignoring this highway. They are getting very close to the time when it will be too late to do anything meaningful here.


Short answer, no.

Neighborhoods and businesses bump right up to the current divided road on both sides up to 192nd. OnCue at 164th and the strip center a mile north at 178th bump right up to it.

Just to clarify: I wasn't trying to say that this project shouldn't have been built, and instead that money set aside for the Heartland Flyer. My point was to illustrate how comparatively little money is required to keep the Heartland Flyer going across it's full 206-mile route vs rebuilding 3 miles of highway, as a counter-argument to those who try and say that the train costs too much. The amount spent on keeping the Heartland Flyer going is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money spent on road projects. Additionally, according to ODOT (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/Maps/aadt/2016/55-Oklahoma.pdf), in 2016 the section of road under construction served 12400 vpd on average (or just under 21k people per day, assuming a national average of 1.67 people per vehicle [SOURCE: USDOT 2009 NHTS Avg. Vehicle Occupancy (Persons) (http://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/fatcat/2009/avo_TRPTRANS_WHYTRP1S.html)]). Also, just like commercial aviation, the Heartland Flyer is much more than "vacation infrastructure"; Amtrak reports (https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/stateeconomicimpactbrochures/Oklahoma-fy16.pdf) that only 55% of the passengers that rode the Heartland Flyer in FY2016 did so for tourism/leisure reasons. Just like with flying, there are many that ride Amtrak for business reasons too.

All of that said, I apologize for steering this thread away from the topic (even if it is tangentially related)... Let's get back to talking about the SH74 widening project. :)
I just hate it in America how public transit has to constantly be compared to roads. build both they both serve the greater purpose and returning a direct immediately profit isn’t the point.

drove this road heading south today and man 164th needs an overpass very very badly ... ( as does 178th and 192nd)

seems like a big fail by odot when the did this project ..

I started exiting at 150th during the construction and now that it's finished, I still exit at 150th. I take that little service road to 164th and just shake my head at how far back the cars are stacked up at the 164th light. Ridiculous.

Also, exiting at 150th, you have to deal with the Northbound side road where there are TWO yield signs where the road and exit ramp merge, and they may as well be invisible. Most people don't even slow down or look, much less yield to exiting traffic. Then you have a ridiculously short distance to get to the right lane, if you plan to turn right on 150th.

I haven't been north of 164th on that road in at least a couple of years. Are they at least keeping the option there for creating a limited access highway situation? Meaning, are they building feeder roads and/or at least keeping curb cuts from sprouting? It may be a lot to ask, but if they aren't going to build overpasses and entrance/exit ramps right now, they could at least avoid having parking lots opening up directly onto that road.

As an aside, and I know they are different entities, but it boggles my mind that the state is proposing and moving ahead with these loop roads way out in the sticks while ignoring this highway. They are getting very close to the time when it will be too late to do anything meaningful here.

No, they are letting new neighbors have entrances directly on it. Only a matter of time before there are multiple lights every mile. This layout was so insanely shortsighted.

No, they are letting new neighbors have entrances directly on it. Only a matter of time before there are multiple lights every mile. This layout was so insanely shortsighted.
Are you talking about SH-74? That’s a state road and I doubt ODOT will let any new signals be constructed on it. The long term plan is it to be fully controlled access to at least Waterloo and possibly to SH-33 one day.

If I recall correctly an overpass is still on the horizon, but like a lot of ODOT project this route upgrade got cut into phases. However priority order or funding seemed to have changed as I think it has been on the 8 year plan more than 8 years, and is still not scheduled to receive the funds till FFY 2026.

SH-74: AT 164TH, FROM 1.5 MILES NORTH OF THE JOHN KILPATRICK
33772(04) FFY 2027 TURNPIKE
OKLAHOMA Div. 4 SH074 1.000 Mi. $7,000,000.00
INTERCHANGE

not soon but it is coming ..

What are they doing at SH74 and Memorial?

What are they doing at SH74 and Memorial?
Dude we got like two different threads talking about it lol… They are installing “Texas turnarounds” like the what you see on the I-240 service roads.

I know it would be HORRIBLE to get done, but the I40/I-44 junction redo needs to be able to handle 8 lanes going N/S, and then the BIG project would be to widen I-44 to add 2 more lanes from the I44-Hefner Parkway juncition all the way down to 240. That parking lot is awful every day going both directions.

35 is really in that spot from Norman up to Downtown now too. That same 35/235 junction funnels things down to 2 lanes (and really one with the way the exit only lane works past the river), and is in need of widening.

But those are 20 year projects that no on wants to have to drive through.....shudder..

A new turnpike will fix the gridlock. :Smiley122

I wonder if they added new tolled lanes if they’d be used or not. It’s been successful in other cities around the country. Transurban builds them and makes revenue from the tolls.

I wonder if they added new tolled lanes if they’d be used or not. It’s been successful in other cities around the country. Transurban builds them and makes revenue from the tolls.

they would 100% be used ..

they would 100% be used ..
So what’s stopping ODOT from doing that? Is there an Oklahoma law that prevents it? As far I know, there are no HO/T lanes anywhere in the state.