Swake, I understand. That's why I don't fault Tulsa at all, they did what they had to do just like OKC has to a much greater degree. I fault the governor because he's very NE centric, usually at the expense of OKC. Both cities (and more) should prosper yet it seems like the investment spigot is open for Tulsa while OKC is left to develop itself, by itself with opposition.

Seems as though OKC is doing a much better job. Being the state capitol and having tinker AFB is a pretty big deal especially tinker having the Oklahoma City Air Logistics Complex and in a few years the innovation district aka convergence will create a ton of high paying jobs and will be similar to research triangle park in Raleigh NC...Oh and the Thunder

Does Tulsa have anything like that?

On a slightly different note, Tulsa's bourbon scene/what they get for allocated bourbon is significantly better than OKC. Not sure if more allocated bourbons are going to restaurants here or what.

On a slightly different note, Tulsa's bourbon scene/what they get for allocated bourbon is significantly better than OKC. Not sure if more allocated bourbons are going to restaurants here or what.

are far as liquor stores ??

Seems as though OKC is doing a much better job. Being the state capitol and having tinker AFB is a pretty big deal especially tinker having the Oklahoma City Air Logistics Complex and in a few years the innovation district aka convergence will create a ton of high paying jobs and will be similar to research triangle park in Raleigh NC...Oh and the Thunder

Does Tulsa have anything like that?

Is the innovation district booming that much? NC's research triangle is a juggernaut. If OKC (or all of Oklahoma honestly) can get to 5-10% of their level within the next 15 years I think that would be a tremendous success.

Is the innovation district booming that much? NC's research triangle is a juggernaut. If OKC (or all of Oklahoma honestly) can get to 5-10% of their level within the next 15 years I think that would be a tremendous success.

No not at all, it is just in the beginning phases of being developed but in a few years it will be booming.

I lived in Raleigh and it's an ok city but I prefer OKC. Raleigh has more trees and hills but that is it. OKC has more going on than Raleigh and OKC is growing faster.

but yeah, research triangle park is the largest research park in the country

Tulsa's reach for Tesla is similar to what OKC experienced when 'United Airlines maintenance' selected Indianapolis over OKC despite a larger incentive package.

"Quality of Life" has been the theme behind MAPS. We learned from the 'United' episode--It was a blessing in disguise we didn't get United.

OKC-TUL have funded projects to upgrade aging structures. Renovations of the Tulsa River Parks and dams under constructions on the Arkansas River; Oklahoma River developments' future gets brighter with upcoming International events scheduled.

Love the aggressive spirits of Oklahoma's two largest MSA areas. My only disappointment--more hasn't been done to develop the Stroud-Davenport area midpoint with projects between both metros.

No not at all, it is just in the beginning phases of being developed but in a few years it will be booming.

I lived in Raleigh and it's an ok city but I prefer OKC. Raleigh has more trees and hills but that is it. OKC has more going on than Raleigh and OKC is growing faster.

but yeah, research triangle park is the largest research park in the country

That's not remotely true. Raleigh is growing almost twice as fast as OKC, 25.1% in the last decade vs 13.8%.

are far as liquor stores ??

Maybe? I'm part of a few Oklahoma bourbon groups and I see people posting way more limited release/hard to find bourbons on the shelf in Tulsa on a regular basis versus what I can find in OKC.

That's not remotely true. Raleigh is growing almost twice as fast as OKC, 25.1% in the last decade vs 13.8%.

2010 - 2020

OKC (proper) population 681,054 17.42%

Raleigh (proper) population 467,665 15.79%

That is from last U.S. census

If Raleigh had a 25.1% population growth it would have been on the list of 14 cities that gained over 100k people; 25.1% of 467,665 is 117,383

and that would have made Raleigh the fastest growing city in the top 50 most populated cities in the US, Fort Worth had the most growth at 23.98%

2010 - 2020

OKC (proper) population 681,054 17.42%

Raleigh (proper) population 467,665 15.79%

That is from last U.S. census

If Raleigh had a 25.1% population growth it would have been on the list of 14 cities that gained over 100k people; 25.1% of 467,665 is 117,383

and that would have made Raleigh the fastest growing city in the top 50 most populated cities in the US, Fort Worth had the most growth at 23.98%

City limits, especially when it comes to OKC, are not a good measure of anything except where someone gets thier municipal services.

Raleigh MSA
2010 - 1,130,490
2020 - 1,413,982
+283,492 for 25.1% growth

OKC MSA
2010 - 1,252,987
2020 - 1,425,695
+172,708 for 13.7% growth

But city limits are fair when comparing one city to another in different states/regions.
I've lived in several east coast cities and until moving here never experienced the phenomena of living in the city limits of one town, mailing address is another town and the school district in another town. Whacky.

OMG are we going to have this conversation again? Swake is exactly right. Metro areas are the only thing that matters. Otherwise, OKC would be towering over Atlanta and would be in Boston’s league.

City limits, especially when it comes to OKC, are not a good measure of anything except where someone gets thier municipal services.

Raleigh MSA
2010 - 1,130,490
2020 - 1,413,982
+283,492 for 25.1% growth

OKC MSA
2010 - 1,252,987
2020 - 1,425,695
+172,708 for 13.7% growth

Will be interesting to revisit in another 5-10 years as it seems like Raleigh had a few years head start as a hot spot. Once everyone is priced out of states like Florida and places like Raleigh I wouldn't be surprised if OKC posted 20%+ growth from 2020-2030. It's also the only city I've lived in so far where it's affordable (and relatively safe) to live inside the city limits.

But city limits are fair when comparing one city to another in different states/regions.
I've lived in several east coast cities and until moving here never experienced the phenomena of living in the city limits of one town, mailing address is another town and the school district in another town. Whacky.

That's even worse with differing rules on incorporation and self rule. Raleigh's population is contained in 147 sq miles compared to OKC that has annexed everything for 50 miles around.

The city of El Paso city has only 2k fewer people than OKC, would you say it's the same size as Oklahoma City? El Paso's MSA has 869K people to OKC's 1.4 million in the MSA and 1.5 million in the CSA.

The city of Oklahoma City has just 8k fewer people than the District of Columbia. Are Washington and OKC the same size? DC's MSA has 6.4 million people and the CSA is just under TEN MILLION. DC's CSA is about to pass Chicago in size.

What about St Louis? The city of Oklahoma City is twice the size of the city of St Louis. But St Louis metro is twice the size of metro OKC. Same size?

City limits, especially when it comes to OKC, are not a good measure of anything except where someone gets thier municipal services.

Raleigh MSA
2010 - 1,130,490
2020 - 1,413,982
+283,492 for 25.1% growth

OKC MSA
2010 - 1,252,987
2020 - 1,425,695
+172,708 for 13.7% growth

Still doesn't change the fact that OKC is growing faster than Raleigh.

Using the MSA is a false equivalency.

More people are moving into OKC proper than people moving into Raleigh proper its a fact if I wanted to compare MSA's I would have done that.

OKC is the 22nd most populated city and Raleigh is the 41st

OKC was one of only 14 cities to gain over 100k people from 2010 - 2020 which is a big deal


Using MSA's is such a fake comparison. San Antonio is the second largest city in Texas but the Dallas metro is the largest.

. . . "The city of El Paso city has only 2k fewer people than OKC, would you say it's the same size as Oklahoma City? El Paso's MSA has 869K people to OKC's 1.4 million in the MSA and 1.5 million in the CSA."

But. . one could posit their "true MSA" includes the City of Juarez as well as parts of New Mexico (Sunland Park, Mesilla, Upper Valley).

. . . "The city of El Paso city has only 2k fewer people than OKC, would you say it's the same size as Oklahoma City? El Paso's MSA has 869K people to OKC's 1.4 million in the MSA and 1.5 million in the CSA."

But. . one could argue their "true" MSA includes the City of Juarez as well as parts of New Mexico (Sunland Park, Mesilla and on up the Valley).

I would say it has a smaller population which is accurate. El Paso had a larger population than OKC for a long time but not anymore and never will again as El Paso is barely growing.

El Paso had 70k more people than OKC in 2010

Still doesn't change the fact that OKC is growing faster than Raleigh.

Using the MSA is a false equivalency.

More people are moving into OKC proper than people moving into Raleigh proper its a fact if I wanted to compare MSA's I would have done that.

OKC is the 22nd most populated city and Raleigh is the 41st

OKC was one of only 14 cities to gain over 100k people from 2010 - 2020 which is a big deal


Using MSA's is such a fake comparison. San Antonio is the second largest city in Texas but the Dallas metro is the largest.

the MSA is really the only thing that matters

the MSA is really the only thing that matters

That's, like your opinion mannnnn

Just kidding I surrender to those that think suburbs are the city

should name this OKCsuburbTalk

That's, like your opinion mannnnn

Just kidding I surrender to those that think suburbs are the city

should name this OKCsuburbTalk

lol OKC proper is bigger in land area then most other cities + suburbs ... which is why city to city doesn't work ..

21 miles (on a line ) from downtown to the OKC city limit going northeast (which is next to luther)
22miles East on I40 which takes you almost to grand casino
14 miles north which makes OKC north of the middle of edmond (1/2 mile south of covell)
10 miles northwest which takes okc west of piedmont
10 miles west which takes okc past yukon
20 miles southwest which takes okc well past mustang .. (which is surrounded by OKC on all sides the same as war acres/bethany/the village/nichols hills and forest ridge and you don't think those should count)
13 mils going south which takes OKC past moore and makes it border norman

lol OKC proper is bigger in land area then most other cities + suburbs ... which is why city to city doesn't work ..

21 miles (on a line ) from downtown to the OKC city limit going northeast (which is next to luther)
22miles East on I40 which takes you almost to grand casino
14 miles north which makes OKC north of the middle of edmond (1/2 mile south of covell)
10 miles northwest which takes okc west of piedmont
10 miles west which takes okc past yukon
20 miles southwest which takes okc well past mustang .. (which is surrounded by OKC on all sides the same as war acres/bethany/the village/nichols hills and forest ridge and you don't think those should count)
13 mils going south which takes OKC past moore and makes it border norman

Ok you win, my original comment was about the innovation district aka convergence will eventually be something like Research Triangle Park someday

the edges of the city is like living in the country with about 200 people per square mile average

99% of the population of OKC proper lives in the city center, my neighborhood is over 5k people per square mile.

this is old https://statisticalatlas.com/place/Oklahoma/Oklahoma-City/Population

last time I comment on this, didn't mean to make this so off topic

99% of the population of OKC proper lives in the city center, my neighborhood is over 5k people per square mile.


south of I240 and north of I44 are not in the "city center"

and there are tons of people in both .. over 8k a sq mile in part

https://statisticalatlas.com/place/Oklahoma/Oklahoma-City/Population#data-map/tract

That's even worse with differing rules on incorporation and self rule. Raleigh's population is contained in 147 sq miles compared to OKC that has annexed everything for 50 miles around.

The city of El Paso city has only 2k fewer people than OKC, would you say it's the same size as Oklahoma City? El Paso's MSA has 869K people to OKC's 1.4 million in the MSA and 1.5 million in the CSA.

The city of Oklahoma City has just 8k fewer people than the District of Columbia. Are Washington and OKC the same size? DC's MSA has 6.4 million people and the CSA is just under TEN MILLION. DC's CSA is about to pass Chicago in size.

What about St Louis? The city of Oklahoma City is twice the size of the city of St Louis. But St Louis metro is twice the size of metro OKC. Same size?
I concede your points. MSA is a better indicator.