Pete, what do you think is holding OKC back from being able to get a seat at the Texas boom table with Dallas, Austin, Houston, and San Antonio? Do you think it is the state of Oklahoma holding it back moreso than the city itself? If OKC was in Texas would it be in on the boom?

Not Pete, but I would say that is the main reason. Imagine OKC where ODOT didn't control every road and did some construction with debt. Imagine no smoking in bars, the ability to buy higher point, cold beer and wine in grocery stores, the ability for the cities to set their own minimum wages, pay our teachers better, the ability to tax vacant properties or just lots higher than improved properties, the AICCM finished and sprawl managed properly.

Not Pete, but I would say that is the main reason. Imagine OKC where ODOT didn't control every road and did some construction with debt. Imagine no smoking in bars, the ability to buy higher point, cold beer and wine in grocery stores, the ability for the cities to set their own minimum wages, pay our teachers better, the ability to tax vacant properties or just lots higher than improved properties, the AICCM finished and sprawl managed properly.

Imagine no personal income tax.

Imagine property taxes 3x greater.

And yet, we are getting the streetcar. Under your assumptions, he must not be that much against it. And, I see nothing wrong with someone saying we need to get the best we can afford. If everyone thinks any streetcar system is the same as any other, then fine...I am admitedly not a street car expert (though I have ridden many and can opine that there are significant differences). He wasn't saying ALL streetcars are noisy & ugly, but that we don't want those that are. So, what is so negative about that? I have seen sleek, quiet, comfortable and relatively quick and that's what I hope we get.

We haven't got it yet and at the behest of Nichols & Co. they just moved a big chunk of a very minimal contingency budget to the convention center. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the streetcar gets cut back before it's all over, while the convention center is growing.

In that quote, Nichols was specifically criticizing the electric wire system that was always going to be a part of the implementation in OKC and long after that had been decided, he started going off about how it would "ruin" site lines, etc.

I think Larry Nichols is a very smart and even a kind, well-intentioned man. But so were the downtown businessmen that pushed through the last big urban renewal projects and that should be a cautionary tale to not let any one or few people have that much power, especially when we are talking about tax dollars.

We don't have to bet....I'll buy you some donuts when you are in town.

Imagine property taxes 3x greater.I would support that. Higher property taxes in exchange for no income tax.

Imagine no personal income tax.

Unless what they plan on spending less if that is stopped, which is not happening, the money is coming from somewhere.

And yet, we are getting the streetcar. Under your assumptions, he must not be that much against it. And, I see nothing wrong with someone saying we need to get the best we can afford. If everyone thinks any streetcar system is the same as any other, then fine...I am admitedly not a street car expert (though I have ridden many and can opine that there are significant differences). He wasn't saying ALL streetcars are noisy & ugly, but that we don't want those that are. So, what is so negative about that? I have seen sleek, quiet, comfortable and relatively quick and that's what I hope we get.

Along those lines - He didn't say OKC needs a sleek modern one either. He took a stand, one side, and that was it.

They don't get any quieter than electric pantograph modern streetcar that OKC has proposed all along. Anybody suspect he wanted a noisy, smoky, diesel or natural gas powered one, perhaps?

OKC has to be very careful with allowing one person to guide decisions. Nichols is an OKC and downtown champion, but the best leaders should listen to their constituents or at least hire a group of experts that enhance your decisions and often may vote against you. This would benefit Nichols tremendously in his desired effort to attract talent to downtown and his company.

The riverside district (I think that is what it is called at 36th and Peoria). Very small urban stretch -- tons of people out walking around, small shops and crowded sidewalk patios.

That is Brookside, the commercial corridor between 31st and 41st on Peoria with the main walkable portion from 33rd to 36th. Neighborhoods on either side between Riverside and Utica are also part of Brookside, mostly smaller homes from the 40's and 50's though the area east of Peoria has bigger homes and lots of newer infill construction. It will eventually be connected to the new Gathering Place park a half mile to the west along the river via a jogging/biking trail along Crow Creek which is the northern limit of the commercial district. Brookside is very similar to Western Ave around 43rd in OKC though with more restaurants and retail.

Speaking of the difference between districts in the two cities Tulsa's Brady (north side of downtown) looks similar to Bricktown with the warehouses and ballpark but is completely different being more of an arts & music district. Blue Dome (east downtown between 1st and 4th) is similar in many ways to Midtown in OKC and even will have some of the same establishments (McNellies, Dust Bowl, Fassler Hall) and both have the biggest future potential for more nightlife and urban residential. Cherry Street (15th between Peoria and Utica) is like Uptown/NW 23rd though with a 15 year head start on gentrification.

South Boston (area around 18th & Boston) and the Pearl (6th & Peoria) share similarities with the Plaza district. The area east of Blue Dome around 3rd & Kenosha is like Film Row, an area with good bones but not a lot of new development yet.

BG918, you seem to know Tulsa better than a lot of people on this board. Is the fact of the matter than Tulsa got a head start on revitalizing its urban districts? If so, why is that being that both cities suffered from the same early 1980s oil crash? How did Tulsa avoid falling into the dire situation OKC found itself in by 1990? What districts would you say that OKC currently has that are ahead of their Tulsa equivalent?

Tulsa had a strong base of civic minded entrepreneurs who gave lots of money and provided pretty unified direction for a very long time. But their strength of that became their weakness. They still don't have the renaissance of leadership that OKC has experienced, but seem to be getting there. Tulsa's politics are sometimes crippling. The old guard doesn't give up easily.

BG918, you seem to know Tulsa better than a lot of people on this board. Is the fact of the matter than Tulsa got a head start on revitalizing its urban districts? If so, why is that being that both cities suffered from the same early 1980s oil crash? How did Tulsa avoid falling into the dire situation OKC found itself in by 1990? What districts would you say that OKC currently has that are ahead of their Tulsa equivalent?

Penn Square Bank was in OKC.... that had a lot to do with it being worse than dire.

This is Tulsa's downtown development picture:
Downtown Tulsa living options grow as 313 units planned in 2014 projects - Tulsa World: Real Estate (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/downtown-tulsa-living-options-grow-as-units-planned-in-projects/article_66a9f956-e7af-553d-a201-3f34ecec6528.html)

About 700 housing units in the next two years. OKC has that in two projects alone.

This is Tulsa's downtown development picture:
Downtown Tulsa living options grow as 313 units planned in 2014 projects - Tulsa World: Real Estate (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/downtown-tulsa-living-options-grow-as-units-planned-in-projects/article_66a9f956-e7af-553d-a201-3f34ecec6528.html)

About 700 housing units in the next two years. OKC has that in two projects alone.

From NYT article last week:

Indeed, more than 600 downtown apartments are scheduled to open through 2015, according to the Tulsa chamber. Among other projects, seven hotels are also in various stages of planning or development, said Brittany Sawyer, executive director of the Metro Tulsa Hotel and Lodging Association.

How many are planned for OKC? I know there are more largely due to several bigger projects like The Rise and one by St Anthony's. Tulsa doesn't have very many of those in the works as the newer projects tend to be smaller.

In response to Bchris' question, Tulsa has always had a strong midtown area even when downtown was dead. Utica Square and the area around it has always been the nicest part of the city. Brookside and Cherry Street were old streetcar commercial districts that didn't fade away mainly because the neighborhoods around them were strong even in the 80's and 90's, with Cherry Street coming the longest way since that time. Downtown Tulsa really didn't have anything until about 10 years ago and has really come into its own in the past 5 years. Contrast that to OKC that already had things happening in Bricktown by the late 90's and about a 10 year head start on other downtown districts.

I really love to read BG's posts as he gives a lot of detail about Tulsa that doesn't seem to be biased for or against; just appears to be factual. I like it. Also, I can not help but give Tulsa props for their urban design and development. It is truly something that could inspire OKC; and I for one would love to learn more about Tulsa and what they have and have done to keep it.

BG, would you and other Tulsa posters be willing to start a Tulsa oriented thread (something similar to how our Omaha and San Antonio friends have a thread for their cities)? I'd like a central location to hear about Tulsa developments, but even moreso - learn about Tulsa's districts, what are they and where, and how did they start and remain successful.

I honestly LOVE how you contrasted Tulsa's districts vs. OKC and think there could be some momentum gained on both sides if dialog (as objective as possible) could take place. I think the scale of development is and should be larger in OKC, but Tulsa seems to have always done things right more or less and it'd be great to learn what has taken place.

I can say that the times I've been to Tulsa I didn't know where to go and that helped me form an opinion of the city (perhaps placemaking is a problem in Tulsa as it is in OKC?). But hearing about Brookside/Cherry, so on - I wish I knew where for my own personal purposes but from a development prospective would love to hear how they got there.

We already have that.

Tulsa & Suburbs (http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa-suburbs/)

I don't think Tulsa has anything comparable to Auto Alley or the Paseo. Am I wrong there?

I don't think Tulsa has anything comparable to Auto Alley or the Paseo. Am I wrong there?

I’m not really familiar enough with Auto Alley to tell you what is similar in Tulsa. Not every part of each city has an equivalent in the other.

Tulsa’s arts district is the Brady Arts District. You probably will find more to contrast then compare.
Home | Brady Arts District (http://thebradyartsdistrict.com/)

How many are planned for OKC? I know there are more largely due to several bigger projects like The Rise and one by St Anthony's. Tulsa doesn't have very many of those in the works as the newer projects tend to be smaller.


Over 1,200 under construction and another 800+ planned, not including the two Clayco towers, which would be another 506 units (253 each).

Downtown Housing Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown+Housing+Summary)

When it comes to planned units, there really isn't any comparison. OKC is currently ahead of Tulsa by a longshot.

I really love to read BG's posts as he gives a lot of detail about Tulsa that doesn't seem to be biased for or against; just appears to be factual. I like it. Also, I can not help but give Tulsa props for their urban design and development. It is truly something that could inspire OKC; and I for one would love to learn more about Tulsa and what they have and have done to keep it.

BG, would you and other Tulsa posters be willing to start a Tulsa oriented thread (something similar to how our Omaha and San Antonio friends have a thread for their cities)? I'd like a central location to hear about Tulsa developments, but even moreso - learn about Tulsa's districts, what are they and where, and how did they start and remain successful.

I honestly LOVE how you contrasted Tulsa's districts vs. OKC and think there could be some momentum gained on both sides if dialog (as objective as possible) could take place. I think the scale of development is and should be larger in OKC, but Tulsa seems to have always done things right more or less and it'd be great to learn what has taken place.

I can say that the times I've been to Tulsa I didn't know where to go and that helped me form an opinion of the city (perhaps placemaking is a problem in Tulsa as it is in OKC?). But hearing about Brookside/Cherry, so on - I wish I knew where for my own personal purposes but from a development prospective would love to hear how they got there.
My family has lived in the Brookside area from when it was first developed in the early 1940s and it is just what it always was. My grandparents lived on 36th Street by Utica for 60 years and when they first moved there 36th was a dead end dirt road out in the country. As far back as the 1950s Brookside was a hopping nightlife district known as The Restless Ribbon. It has evolved to become more and more upscale, but these are gradual changes over time. Brookside does become more and more dense and development does creep into the neighborhood, but only slowly. The Brookside Neighborhood Association has always been very strong and fights the commercial district growing into residential areas. The name comes from the area being on Crow Creek which connects the Brookside area to the Arkansas River. The potential development area for The Gathering Place will be along Crow Creek to the west of the Brookside commercial area in the Brookside neighborhood.

Brookside (http://brooksidetheplacetobe.com/)


Cherry Street is a very old “suburban” Tulsa shopping district, one of the first outside downtown. The area which is actually along 15th Street from Peoria Ave to Utica Ave gets its name from the old name for 15th before Tulsa standardized the street naming convention sometime before 1920. The area has always been a shopping area but as part of an effort to improve the area and make it area more cohesive in the late 1970s it was dubbed “Cherry Street”. The new (also very old) Pearl District that is starting to come to life east of downtown along 6th Street and Peoria gets its name the same way, Pearl was the old name for Peoria Ave.

Welcome to Cherry Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma (http://www.cherrystreet.com/)

Tulsa Pearl District | Reinventing the art of city life (http://www.tulsapearl.com/)

Oklahoma City vs. Tulsa will always we a hot topic. I lived in Tulsa in the late 70s & early 80s. Tulsa was a very clean and beautiful city in comparison to OKC which wouldn't be saying a whole lot about OKC in those decades.

Tulsa slowed down in the late 80's and early 90s; this was a period in which OKC made remarkable improvements. The competitive between both of Oklahoma's largest metropolitan areas is a good thing.

These two communities need to continue with their upswing...

Over 1,200 under construction and another 800+ planned, not including the two Clayco towers, which would be another 506 units (253 each).

Downtown Housing Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown+Housing+Summary)

What's the current unit count for everything that has been completed?

Edit: nm, you already updated the housing summary. Should've checked! http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown+Housing+Summary&page=2

I don't think Tulsa has anything comparable to Auto Alley or the Paseo. Am I wrong there?

Paseo is unique and OKC is lucky to have such an area. Most of the art galleries in Tulsa are in Brady or Cherry Street.

The closest comparison to Auto Alley is probably Boston Ave between 4th and 6th. Both are growing locally-owned retail corridors. Both also have impressive light displays during the holidays. Downtown retail is an area where both cities need to expand and improve.

Paseo is unique and OKC is lucky to have such an area. Most of the art galleries in Tulsa are in Brady or Cherry Street.

The closest comparison to Auto Alley is probably Boston Ave between 4th and 6th. Both are growing locally-owned retail corridors. Both also have impressive light displays during the holidays. Downtown retail is an area where both cities need to expand and improve.

I agree about the Paseo. It is probably still my favorite place in OKC. Love the vibe there and the uniqueness of it.

Does Boston Ave in Tulsa have the neon displays like Auto Alley does? Auto Alley is striking and memorable to those not used to seeing it. As somebody who has traveled, lived in multiple cities, and is admittedly sometimes difficult to impress, Auto Alley really "wowed" me the first time I saw it at night.

When it comes to p̶l̶a̶n̶n̶e̶d̶ under development units, there really isn't any comparison. OKC is currently ahead of Tulsa by a longshot.

Fixed it for you

Developer plans new downtown apartments, completes $95 million sale apartment complexes - Tulsa World: Technology (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/technology/developer-plans-new-downtown-apartments-completes-million-sale-apartment-complexes/article_4feb26a0-4263-5941-918e-abe7aba9b234.html)

From TW:
In one of the biggest one-day apartment-property sale clusters in Tulsa County’s history, American Residential Group sold all four of its properties outside of the downtown area for a combined $95 million.

Thanks in part to the sale, American Residential is preparing to build two new properties downtown that could total well over 300 units.The transactions, which closed Tuesday, hands them to Weidner Apartment Homes, a Seattle-based apartment management group that manages more than 38,000 units across the country. Affected properties include Lincoln on Memorial at 7777 S. Memorial Drive; Villas on Memorial, located directly to the south of Lincoln on Memorial at 7877 S. Memorial Drive; Memorial Creek, located at 9602 S. Memorial Drive; and Woodland Park, located at 7350 S. Garnett Road. All current employees of these communities will be retained by Weidner.

Jay Helm, president and CEO of American Residential, said the move is a combination of a redeployment of capital and a refocus.
“We decided we wanted to focus on urban development, not just here but in other cities,” Helm said. That focus includes plans for two new developments in downtown Tulsa. The first, an unnamed project formerly known as Hartford Commons, will be $21 million in new construction at 215 S. Greenwood Ave., and will feature 162 units.

Steve Ganzkow, senior vice president at American Residential, said they’re in the process of bidding out the final details of construction and plan to begin construction by the end of December.
Tulsa businessman Elliot Nelson, developer of McNellie’s Public House and various other businesses in Tulsa and Oklahoma City, has a small interest in the development, said Ganzkow.
The second, to be located on the southeast corner of Elgin and Archer near ONEOK Field, would be a new building with between 160 and 220 units. Plans for that development have not yet been finalized, though Ganzkow said they hope to start construction in the middle of next year.

American Residential currently has the land for that development under contract from the Stadium Trust. In addition, Ganzkow said they’d like to have a third project under development over the next three years. They’re currently investigating potential areas for development along Riverside Drive and the area between downtown and 21st Street.

Ganzkow said he felt the company’s non-downtown developments have been successful, but their passion lies closer to downtown.
“We’ve been involved with the suburban market and the urban market, and we’ve found that urban markets are very complicated and time-consuming,” he said. “But we believe that being able to give back something to the community and participate in the revitalization is exciting for us.”

The company is also considering building in the urban core of other cities, though they haven’t identified where yet. American Residential Group’s downtown-area communities, which will remain with the company, include Lincoln Park at 18th Street and Carson Avenue, Renaissance Downtown at 11th Street and Denver Avenue, the Tribune Lofts at 20 E. Archer St., and the Metro at Brady at 10 E. Archer.Lincoln Park was originally developed by Helm in 1984 for a different company, while the rest were built by American Residential. Tribune Lofts were made from the redeveloped former home of the Tulsa Tribune.

Helm said the properties were marketed for sale for four weeks before they entered into a contract with Weidner. He said the company received multiple offers, but went with Weidner because he felt the company would be a good fit for the residents and employees.

The purchase is Weidner’s first in the Tulsa area, though Helm said they’re looking for other communities in the area in which to buy.In September, Weidner purchased Liberty Pointe Apartments near Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City for $37.25 million. All of Weidner’s Oklahoma transactions were brokered by Brandon Lamb and Tim McKay with Apartment Realty Advisors.

Cool, potentially another 200 units for downtown Tulsa - or were these units already counted in the pre-existing 600-700 count?

The count is more like 1,000 under construction or planned in Tulsa. Here's the projects I know about.

Urban 8 - 2nd and Kenosha, 8 new construction units for sale are under construction now
http://urban8tulsa.com/images/urban8_buildings.jpg

100 Boulder - 18 units new construction condos are nearly complete
http://photos3.zillowstatic.com/p_h/IStcxqygzqpazq0000000000.jpg

Lofts at Main and Cameron by George Kaiser Family Foundation are under construction, it’s a warehouse conversion with retail on the first floor and unknown number of lofts above. Lofts are intended for Teach for America teachers.

Sager Lofts - 2nd and Detroit, 23 unit residential conversion of former hotel. It’s on hold, but half completed. Micheal Sager endlessly promises construction is restarting soon. First floor is filled with retail now.
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2011/12/30/44/e4/DSC04025.JPG

Harrington Lofts - 7th and Boston, residential conversion of former department store, 24 units, nearly complete
http://harringtonloftstulsa.com/resources/scapec.jpg

Coliseum Apartments - 635 S Elgin, Rebuild of apartment building, 36 units from McNellie's Group
http://oi62.tinypic.com/14y30g1.jpg

Transok Building - 2 W. Sixth St, 37 unit residential conversion of office building on the national register of historic places. Tax credit is approved and construction should start early next year.
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/d7/7d719e04-a3ab-551c-bb50-b2b026fe7f11/53dac4a94e45c.image.jpg

East End Village - 2nd and Kenosha, 53 unit mixed used conversion of Bill White Chevy Dealership into lofts, retail and restaurant space. Under Construction.
http://s.lnimg.com/photo/poster_768/89bcf04dc3464e749a5bb40615a80043.jpg

Unnamed residential project at the SE Corner Archer and Elgin by American Residential (Hartford Commons, Metro at Brady, Tribune Lofts). 160 to 220 units. Construction is planned to start mid 2015.

Mincks-Adams Hotel Building, 403 S Cheyenne 56 unit residential conversion of former hotel building on national register of historic places. Existing retail will remain on first floor. Tax credit is approved and construction should start early next year.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3734/9949823246_c9f59bcdcb_b.jpg

Brady Flats - Main and Archer, 61 unit new residential construction apartments. This is long delayed but reportedly still on track.
http://www.sikesabernathie.com/images/portfolioimages/m-co/img31a-l.jpg

GreenArch Phase II - SE Corner of Archer and Greenwood 70 unit new residential building, the planned second phase of the new GreenArch building. Planned.
http://www.greenarchtulsa.com/assets/images/Gallery/sample_1.jpg

YMCA Lofts - 5th and Denver, 82 unit residential conversion of former YMCA under construction.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L3gtvb8usg4/S68N_Gwb01I/AAAAAAAAAeA/LmmvBRHgxi8/s1600/tulsaymca.jpg

111 W 5th - Residential conversion of art deco office building, 90 units. Tax credit is approved and construction should start early next year.
http://s.lnimg.com/photo/poster_768/338bd4a004754a849990429bad0f8a34.jpg

Hartford Commons - 215 S Greenwood. New construction residential building with 162 units. Construction starts next month.
http://journalrecord.com/files/2014/07/bb-elevations-07-18-14.jpg

Hartford Building, 90 residential units with retail and office in a combination new construction/office building conversion from Brickhugger (aLoft, Mayor Hotel, YMCA lofts, Vandever Building) - Planned.
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/45/c45bfae8-4e50-11e3-b119-001a4bcf6878/5286b3dae46ee.image.jpg?resize=300%2C143

Hotels under construction or planned, 700 or so new rooms

Promise Hotels (7 metro hotels):
Hilton Garden Inn on SE Corner 2nd and Cheyenne, 134 rooms, partial rehab, partial new construction.
http://promisehotels.com/files/cache/9f13c074b7094c1e69ad18a3f5572661_f100.jpg
Hampton Inn at 3rd and Cheyenne, part of Place One development. 120 room new construction
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/24146865_SA.jpg
Holiday Inn Express on SE Corner Detroit and Archer, 110 room 5 story new construction hotel
http://promisehotels.com/files/cache/57d758365521f0fc10ae3e1b1e0459ab_f103.jpg

Anish Hotels (9 Tulsa area hotels):
Residence Inn at 5th and Denver, 110 room new construction hotel
http://www.anishhotelsgroup.com/media/TulDTResidenceInn/Tulsa%20Downtown%20Residence%20Inn.jpg
Unnamed Hotel conversion of Parker Drilling office building at 2nd and Main.
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/0a/30a7379f-195f-5831-a884-18b52491e8fc/526a189a5a537.image.jpg

Brickhugger (downtown aLoft, Mayo Hotel)
Best Western in former city office building at 6th and Houston, 82 rooms.
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/bb/cbb47fcc-a658-50a3-a8c5-f569e8cd3b9f/54407071041a0.image.png?resize=300%2C143

Wil Wilkens (Atlas Building Residence Inn, Brady District Hampton Inn)
Unnamed hotel in mixed use development at Elgin and Archer

The mixed-use development at Elgin & Archer on the parking lot across from ONEOK Field is supposed to have a TownePlace Suites in addition to office space and ground level retail, and a new brewpub next to it at Elgin & Brady being developed by Elliot Nelson and Eric Marshall
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/da/3da4c05a-5cb9-54fd-8a1b-948bcb307b11/53ebfe2e142c8.image.jpg?resize=300%2C285

Also a new build commercial project in the Blue Dome District along Greenwood which has several proposed residential developments clustered around it
http://www.selserschaefer.com/files/cache/732cf848fa16aca17f57ae470d73f664_f588.jpg

New $45 million Tulsa County Juvenile Justice Center at Archer and Elwood, starts construction in 2015
http://www.selserschaefer.com/files/cache/cdd0c4d9d941049573bb586d0869db00_f177.jpg

$48 million restoration of Tulsa's art deco Central Library, under construction now.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/201409/LibraryPhoto.jpg

Good for Tulsa. Glad to see Tulsa and OKC doing well.

Perhaps this thread should be turned into a "Tulsa Development" thread.

Good for Tulsa. Glad to see Tulsa and OKC doing well.

Perhaps this thread should be turned into a "Tulsa Development" thread.

You mean like this? :)

Tulsa & Suburbs (http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa-suburbs/)

Oooooooooh! Didn't even know it existed!

Oooooooooh! Didn't even know it existed!
Not to be rude here, but how did you manage to miss that? Some goes for others wanting a Tulsa development thread. Good to see Tulsa getting about 10% of the projects that is going on here in OKC. They have my respect.

I think Swake's posts were more to inform about the development that is ongoing in downtown Tulsa since some on this thread brought up that there wasn't very much going on. Like has been mentioned downtown Tulsa is about 10 years behind downtown OKC in its renaissance and is just now really starting to get things going. I'm excited about the prospects in both downtowns.

I think Swake's posts were more to inform about the development that is ongoing in downtown Tulsa since some on this thread brought up that there wasn't very much going on. Like has been mentioned downtown Tulsa is about 10 years behind downtown OKC in its renaissance and is just now really starting to get things going. I'm excited about the prospects in both downtowns.As am I man. I'm actually impressed with what was posted. I didn't know that much was going on or planned down there. I generally drive around downtown to see what's going on when I'm there and I hope Tulsa really gets going with their downtown. They need a streetscape project going ASAP. I guess I missed most of the construction, but by the looks of it, a lot of it isn't slated to begin until 2015, so I suspect Tulsa will see more announced by then.

Here's another development that just started in the 918 today

Margaritaville resort

$365 million
27 Stories
483 hotel rooms
800 full-time jobs(WOW!)
est. 135 million impact on the economy a year
one of the largest single private developments in the history of the state

http://api.newson6.com/newsimages/slideshow/5a2dceba-46c2-4a3b-9276-1cc493629395.jpg
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/23690097_SA.jpg
http://media2.kjrh.com//photo/2013/03/19/river1_20130319101220_640_480.JPG

- Work begins on $329 million Margaritaville casino and hotel - Tulsa World: Homepage3 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage3/work-begins-on-million-margaritaville-casino-and-hotel/article_f5ec7215-a28c-5d2c-9fce-ce1358545a19.html)

I only click on "New Posts" when I visit this site. Then look to see which user just posted the last comment. It helps me avoid arguments and off-topic posts like this one... oops.

I only click on "New Posts" when I visit this site.
Ah, I understand. That makes sense. I've never used that function, so I forgot about it. :p

I only click on "New Posts" when I visit this site. Then look to see which user just posted the last comment. It helps me avoid arguments and off-topic posts like this one... oops.That's a pretty good idea though haha.

ya, definitely apologize for not knowing/seeing the Tulsa mega thread. Ill have to check if there is a forum or two about downtown development (such as what BG, SWAKE, others) have posted here.

This is what I was asking for, very clear, objective, and factual about what's going on and even some history or 'trade secrets' if you will; little to no subjective put down or snub. :)


thanks all.

i just took a look at the mega thread and it appears to be single project focused rather than a city compilation sort of thread we recently have going here.

Personally, I like the city compilation since it's more of an update for those of us who aren't from Tulsa to keep up on what's going on. I think the individual threads are probably more focused for OKC since this is its home forum. my opinion only. Would Swake/BG be willing to start a city compilation sticky in the Tulsa section? Maybe Pete/mods could move the recent posts over. Or not - :)

The problem is we haven't had any good Tulsa updates in a loooooooooooong time, besides for suburban stuff and the "Gathering Place" park.

I for one really appreciate swake and BG's updates in this thread. I occasionally try to dig through Tulsa Now (a painful experience) and it always gives me the impression nothing is happening.

I would really love for Pete to start TulsaTalk as I would read it regularly.

The Margaritaville hotel/casino is really impressive. That's on top of the existing Hard Rock casino. I wish something like that would be done with Riverwind or one of the other OKC area casinos.

Personally, I like the city compilation since it's more of an update for those of us who aren't from Tulsa to keep up on what's going on. I think the individual threads are probably more focused for OKC since this is its home forum. my opinion only. Would Swake/BG be willing to start a city compilation sticky in the Tulsa section? Maybe Pete/mods could move the recent posts over. Or not - :)

I think having a single downtown compilation thread would be good, located in the Tulsa subforum. It's better that way because it's a bunch of mostly smaller projects that don't need their own threads. Maybe a midtown development thread as well since there is quite a bit happening there too. The big projects like Gathering Place and the River Spirit tower probably deserve their own threads. Swake knows a lot more than I do about Tulsa development (he lives there, I don't) and could start it and update it if he wants. I could add things periodically as I am in Tulsa every few months for work.

Feel free to move the posts.

I think part of the awareness problem is that the Tulsa World is behind a pay wall now and has really declined since being bought out by BH Media.

Could the Chickasaw Tribe and all they money that have possibly do something like this near the DT area? They could even build a mega resort with perhaps indoor skiing! I mentioned this on another thread but they have huge bucks and could make this happen. Imagine a huge resort and hotel with indoor skiing? It could look something like this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=indoor+ski+resort&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=O1oSkdYo5LgaWM%253A%253BCDjuiwmep9FJ_M%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.gizmag.com%25252Findoo r-ski-resort%25252F19963%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=O1oSkdYo5LgaWM%253A%252CCDjuiwmep9FJ_M%252C_&usg=__8VrTNJ-5morksJDBSKEw_SbeANY%3D&biw=1366&bih=667&ved=0CCkQyjc&ei=hRNuVO-hMsOAygT2hoIQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=8RLX3zU-B4sVeM%253A%3BbruesspbFxgsSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F spiff.rit.edu%252Fclasses%252Fphys369%252Fworkshop s%252Fw5r%252Fdubai_slope_2.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%2 52Fspiff.rit.edu%252Fclasses%252Fphys369%252Fworks hops%252Fw5r%252Fski_dubai.html%3B1200%3B900

Chickasaws cannot build anything outside of their immediate "nation" boundaries, which pretty much include all of South Central Oklahoma but stops at the South Canadian River.

IIRC one of the tribes released plans for development proposal ($400 million) about six years ago where they wanted to do something like this in northeast Oklahoma City. The development included a 16-20 story hotel and a casino. It met resistance from Remington Park Racino and city leaders.



2008

By The Associated Press
The Shawnee Tribe is planning to unveil its plans for a resort and casino in northeast Oklahoma City.

Officials with the Miami, Okla.-based tribe plan to detail their plans Wednesday during a news conference at the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum in Oklahoma City.


Tribal officials say they have a contract to buy and develop more than 100 acres on the west side of Interstate 35, between Britton Road and Wilshire Boulevard.

The tribe is currently seeking trust status for the land, which is required before they could build the casino.

Tribe plans casino, hotel in OKC | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3196102/1201111881)

There's an OKCTalk thread: http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/11561-shawnee-tribe-wants-casino-okc.html

IIRC one of the tribes released plans for development proposal ($400 million) about six years ago where they wanted to do something like this in northeast Oklahoma City. The development included a 16-20 story hotel and a casino. It met resistance from Remington Park Racino and city leaders.



Tribe plans casino, hotel in OKC | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3196102/1201111881)

There's an OKCTalk thread: http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/11561-shawnee-tribe-wants-casino-okc.html

Legally tribal casinos in Oklahoma have to be located within that tribe’s national boundaries and then only on federal land reserved for the tribe and held in trust by the BIA and therefore technically not in the state. Most of central Oklahoma and all of OKC is outside of all the tribal nations so no casinos can be located there. Tulsa is split up by the Creek, Cherokee and Osage nations. The boundaries of the three nations all come together at a point just northwest of downtown.

I think having a single downtown compilation thread would be good, located in the Tulsa subforum. It's better that way because it's a bunch of mostly smaller projects that don't need their own threads. Maybe a midtown development thread as well since there is quite a bit happening there too. The big projects like Gathering Place and the River Spirit tower probably deserve their own threads. Swake knows a lot more than I do about Tulsa development (he lives there, I don't) and could start it and update it if he wants. I could add things periodically as I am in Tulsa every few months for work.

If you and Swake (and any other responsible parties) would like to maintain it, I can create a wiki function in the Tulsa forum where you can create summary articles then continually edit them.

Otherwise, the thread format gets very drawn out with info scattered everywhere.

Then, we could do housing, hotel and other summaries similar for what we do for the OKC urban core.


Otherwise, the message board format makes it too difficult. Good for discussion but not content. It's why I added with wiki function which has gone pretty much unnoticed (after a while) but has gone miles towards keeping info organized.

Could the Chickasaw Tribe and all they money that have possibly do something like this near the DT area? They could even build a mega resort with perhaps indoor skiing! I mentioned this on another thread but they have huge bucks and could make this happen. Imagine a huge resort and hotel with indoor skiing? It could look something like this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=indoor+ski+resort&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=O1oSkdYo5LgaWM%253A%253BCDjuiwmep9FJ_M%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.gizmag.com%25252Findoo r-ski-resort%25252F19963%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=O1oSkdYo5LgaWM%253A%252CCDjuiwmep9FJ_M%252C_&usg=__8VrTNJ-5morksJDBSKEw_SbeANY%3D&biw=1366&bih=667&ved=0CCkQyjc&ei=hRNuVO-hMsOAygT2hoIQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=8RLX3zU-B4sVeM%253A%3BbruesspbFxgsSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F spiff.rit.edu%252Fclasses%252Fphys369%252Fworkshop s%252Fw5r%252Fdubai_slope_2.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%2 52Fspiff.rit.edu%252Fclasses%252Fphys369%252Fworks hops%252Fw5r%252Fski_dubai.html%3B1200%3B900

A brand new flagship Riverwind on the south banks of the Canadian River next to I-35 could be possible if the Chickasaws wanted to build a new casino resort to draw from the OKC metro and compete with the Creek and Cherokee flagships in Tulsa. Maybe they could figure out a way to keep water in it which is the same dilemma the Creeks are facing with the Arkansas River.

How come they have their name on the Bricktown Ballpark.

A brand new flagship Riverwind on the south banks of the Canadian River next to I-35 could be possible if the Chickasaws wanted to build a new casino resort to draw from the OKC metro and compete with the Creek and Cherokee flagships in Tulsa. Maybe they could figure out a way to keep water in it which is the same dilemma the Creeks are facing with the Arkansas River.

I would love to see this.

I don't particularly support a downtown Casino, but would really like to see the metro have a flagship casino/resort that can compete with the Winstar or the ones in Tulsa.

How come they have their name on the Bricktown Ballpark.

Completely different scenario.

They have simply given their money as a sponsorship deal with the Ballpark.

To operate any sort of casino or other tribal owned enterprise, they must be on tribal owned land. There is no tribal owned land of any sort in OKC proper, or the vast majority of Oklahoma and Cleveland County for that matter.