I am curious as to whether or not it has been a problem with attendance at the shows that have been booked at the Criterion and the Tower, a matter of bands choosing to pass over OKC for Tulsa, or a combination of both. People were very excited about both of these new venues when they were announced and its quite surprising that they have performed this poorly. It makes sense that it would take some time to really get things cranking, but both venues should be performing better than they are, even in this market.

^

It's the promoters, plain and simple.

^

It's the promoters, plain and simple.

Does Levelland also promote Cain's or anything in Tulsa? I'm not that familiar with the concert booking industry. I do remember everyone on this board was very excited when it was announced they would promote the Criterion and the Tower because they have been very successful in other markets.

No, before Levelland only booked and operated the Wormy Dog.

What excited people was their eventual tie to Live Nation, the largest concert booker and promoter in the world.

But that hasn't panned out very well, and I'm quite sure it's because Levelland cannot get their act together.

The tie to Live Nation was what I was most excited about. I thought surely this meant we would see lots of shows of all sorts coming down the pike. however its been very disappointing and I still find myself headed to Dallas or Tulsa or even a Casino to see shows due to lack of bookings here.

I don't know anything about the concert promotion business, but I do know how to run a business and love music and go to Austin all the time. And I have resources. I have honestly wondered if I could do a better job as a n00b than some of these people in this town. With each passing day I consider finding out more and more.

The tie to Live Nation was what I was most excited about. I thought surely this meant we would see lots of shows of all sorts coming down the pike. however its been very disappointing and I still find myself headed to Dallas or Tulsa or even a Casino to see shows due to lack of bookings here.

As with any booking deal, a good part of the financial responsibility falls to the venue operator (in this case, Levelland) and if they can't handle things properly, shows don't get scheduled.

Even with the recent rash of announcements, the Criterion is still only averaging about 2 shows a *month*. Ridiculous.

This is the article from the Oklahoman and I think it's way, way off base.

The reasons the Tower deal didn't work and why the Criterion isn't booking many shows goes well beyond how people in OKC feel about live music, as noted by the relative success of the woeful Diamond.

Why is OKC such a fickle concert market? (http://newsok.com/article/5544378)

This guy's completely out of tune with reality, despite him saying he's booked and promoted shows for a decade. We have thousands of people here that would go to shows at the Criterion or Tower *if* they were booked. Chicken and egg somewhat, yeah, but his BS about the fans doesn't hold water - if some of the Diamond shows were booked at the Criterion, they'd be hits (If X was at the Criterion instead of the Diamond, I'd be so happy not to have to drive way down to that POS to see them, but I'll go to the Diamond because I've never seen X. Other acts at the Diamond I've passed on just because I don't feel like going down there, but I'd gladly have gone to them if they were at the Criterion).

I don't have a Facebook (the only way to comment on newsok.com) or Twitter account, but I know almost everybody else does, so please comment on that article on newsok.com or tweet at JLBoydston telling him he's full of sh*t blaming it on the fans!

By the way, OKC has supported with incredible enthusiasm and lots of spending virtually anything entertainment, shopping or food related that has come to this market.

There is a huge hunger for more things to do, in particular. Yes, we've improved drastically but still lots of room for the new and improved.

It simply doesn't make sense that OKC is somehow 'not a live music town'. What about all the shows at the Peake and the ultra-crappy Diamond? What about the people that drive all the bloody way to Tulsa or Dallas, even on weeknights? Exactly who is attending all these casino shows?? Why on earth would Tulsa, considerably smaller, be inherently supportive while OKC is not??

When was the last time a decent live show was not well attended in OKC??

Someone please name the last new-to-market anything that hasn't been successful???


That argument is complete BS and absolutely everything in the local press written about this or any subject is always, always told from the side of big business and advertisers and absolutely without any fact checking or real investigation.

Someone with money and influence says something, that gets printed without any independent verification or the slightest bit of research.

But their stories get told so many times people begin to accept and repeat them and thus, OKC somehow is now branded a bad live music town.

It's infuriating.

There are basically no positive qualities to the Diamond. It is a total dump with bad bones and an a worse system. Unfortunately in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that matters to most promoters. The Diamond has been the only venue consistently bringing shows to OKC for decades, so they have the $$ and relationships with probably every major manager and promoter to monopolize the concert scene here. The Diamond knows exactly what it is and has parlayed that into a solid working relationship with outside promoters. I think Levelland understimated how difficult it was going to be to dismantle that institution. Sadly whoever is taking over these venues should expect to pay some premium cash for a while to establish their brand.

^

All true but the Criterion has the massive advantage of having a contractual relationship with Live Nation.

That alone should be bringing in tons of shows that we would never otherwise get and that would never consider someplace like the Diamond.

And beyond all that, the Critierion has much more capacity, plus the flexibility to do Diamond-sized shows.

Does Levelland need to show success booking shows before Live Nation will step in? Or what's holding Live Nation from stepping in and booking now?

Does Levelland need to show success booking shows before Live Nation will step in? Or what's holding Live Nation from stepping in and booking now?

Every agreement is different but it is usually up to the venue operator to book the shows with Live Nation signed acts. Live Nation provides access to these acts (and in turn has revenue sharing contracts with them) but does not dictate which ones and when/where they perform.

And the venue operator also bears a lot of cost and risk with each booking, then share proceeds with Live Nation based on their contract.

The arrangement requires a financially strong venue operator as well as one that knows how to deal with and book acts.

:noldus:Wow. Somehow just found this thread and I was actually thinking what's going on with the lack of shows at the criterion. When I heard Silver Sun Pickups were coming I thought for sure it would be at the Criterion... but nope!

Glad some of you could shed some light on the issue. Unfortunately 3 of the last 4 shows I've seen I had to go to Tulsa.

Just bought tickets for Explosions In The Sky on 4/29 (at their box office since there is a fewer amount of fees - $5 per ticket instead of $10.50 per ticket if you buy online). We're numbers 117 and 118. Amazing and really sad that there are only 118 people (so far) in OKC (OK, really, since I think this is their only date in the state) that want to see them since they play to many many many times that amount of people all over the world.

Well, the show is the night before the marathon.

More significantly, that is the weekend of Norman Music Festival. All us music fans will be there.

More significantly, that is the weekend of Norman Music Festival. All us music fans will be there.

This was my thought exactly. How out of touch do you have to be as a music promoter to not think that the NMF will adversely affect a show, especially one that shares the same demographic.

This is sad really.

Yeah, I don't think the intersection of the 2 sets of EITS fans and marathon runners was too big, but having EITS play same day as the NMF is stupid (although I'm not sure which one was booked/scheduled first). My brother is actually going to the NMF first, then seeing EITS. But yeah, kind of a fail for Levelland.

NMF dates were announced in The Oklahoman on Sept. 23, 2016. Levelland must be totally unaware.

Sometimes you're at the mercy of the band on tour - OKC is the last date of the EITS spring tour.

NMF dates were announced in The Oklahoman on Sept. 23, 2016. Levelland must be totally unaware.

While the line ups were announced in September the dates for the NMF had been established for years. This event has been going on for almost 10 years and the dates for it are on the third weekend of April. Should Easter fall on the third weekend the festival moves to the following week.

Levelland just f-ing sucks... For the EITS show, Still Corners has been the announced opening band pretty much ever since they announced it, but Vonna Pearl (a crappy local band) is now the opener. The only reason I was going is that there were 2 actual good bands playing, which doesn't happen often nowadays (the modus operandi seems to be getting a crappy local band to open, which wasn't always the case here). I almost seriously hope Levelland just completely fails and someone else can step in and start doing decent booking.

Jason Isbell w/Frank Turner - Sept. 24

Awesome! Caught Isbell with Lucero last year and it was a great show and Isbell really seemed to like the venue.

Levelland just f-ing sucks... For the EITS show, Still Corners has been the announced opening band pretty much ever since they announced it, but Vonna Pearl (a crappy local band) is now the opener. The only reason I was going is that there were 2 actual good bands playing, which doesn't happen often nowadays (the modus operandi seems to be getting a crappy local band to open, which wasn't always the case here). I almost seriously hope Levelland just completely fails and someone else can step in and start doing decent booking.

When / where had you seen Vonna Pearl before this show? I had heard good things.

When / where had you seen Vonna Pearl before this show? I had heard good things.

I listened to a song online, they're nothing special at all, some people may love them, but I heard nothing in that song that made me want to see/hear any more of them (but I've heard so much music over my life that I'm probably a lot more jaded than most). And they replaced a band I really wanted to see, so 2 strikes against them.

I listened to a song online, they're nothing special at all, some people may love them, but I heard nothing in that song that made me want to see/hear any more of them (but I've heard so much music over my life that I'm probably a lot more jaded than most). And they replaced a band I really wanted to see, so 2 strikes against them.
How was EITS? What was the turnout and bar situation like?

I listened to a song online, they're nothing special at all, some people may love them, but I heard nothing in that song that made me want to see/hear any more of them (but I've heard so much music over my life that I'm probably a lot more jaded than most). And they replaced a band I really wanted to see, so 2 strikes against them.

Ha. Well, that's not their fault. I get it, though. That kinda seems to be what okc is in terms of live music interest from fans. I just thought the "crappy local band" comments seemed to contradict what I've heard about them and kind of validated the "fickle local music fan" discussion further up thread. It is the local bands that make a "music scene" afterall. I think if we want a good music scene here, support for the locals is where it really starts. For most towns that aren't LA, that's where it starts. That doesn't mean you have to suffer music you don't like all the time, but, you know, the flaming lips were a crappy local band at one time* (a REALLY crappy one, and they'll tell you that). Just seems like so many have to leave before anyone here will give them a chance and so, obviously, that's what they do.

I think that's why I like what the new tower promoters are doing with the local artist series. There's talent on that roster and I think they'll be able to gauge if there is real support for a music scene here or if people only want to pay to see what they've already heard from established acts before.

*and, of course, many may say the same is still true, just drop the "local" part. And they aren't wrong. There's no real right and wrong in music. Just used them to illustrate the point that it's hard to sell a town as the potential music town we all want it to be, when we seem to have trouble supporting the music we have here until they're appreciated somewhere else first.

I think if we want a good music scene here, support for the locals is where it really starts. For most towns that aren't LA, that's where it starts. That doesn't mean you have to suffer music you don't like all the time, but, you know, the flaming lips were a crappy local band at one time* (a REALLY crappy one, and they'll tell you that). Just seems like so many have to leave before anyone here will give them a chance and so, obviously, that's what they do.


Doesn't sound like things have changed much in the 20 years since I had my band.... We hardly every played in OKC and the hand full of times we did it was for the Festival of the Arts or the State Fair..... I thought maybe it was just due to Red Dirt Music being new at the time but maybe not.... I just know our big goal back then was to get booked in Stillwater.

5 years ago the band I was in were doing shows for the Proctors opening up for some bigger bands they had coming through town.

I was told pretty much every show (when networking with bigger acts) to get out of OKC if we ever wanted to be anything.

Ha. Well, that's not their fault. I get it, though. That kinda seems to be what okc is in terms of live music interest from fans. I just thought the "crappy local band" comments seemed to contradict what I've heard about them and kind of validated the "fickle local music fan" discussion further up thread. It is the local bands that make a "music scene" afterall. I think if we want a good music scene here, support for the locals is where it really starts. For most towns that aren't LA, that's where it starts. That doesn't mean you have to suffer music you don't like all the time, but, you know, the flaming lips were a crappy local band at one time* (a REALLY crappy one, and they'll tell you that). Just seems like so many have to leave before anyone here will give them a chance and so, obviously, that's what they do.

I think that's why I like what the new tower promoters are doing with the local artist series. There's talent on that roster and I think they'll be able to gauge if there is real support for a music scene here or if people only want to pay to see what they've already heard from established acts before.

*and, of course, many may say the same is still true, just drop the "local" part. And they aren't wrong. There's no real right and wrong in music. Just used them to illustrate the point that it's hard to sell a town as the potential music town we all want it to be, when we seem to have trouble supporting the music we have here until they're appreciated somewhere else first.

Well, I actually did like the Lips when they were a crappy local band - got into them around the time of "Hear It Is", saw them at what's now The Barrel performing the "Priest-Driven Ambulance" in full, etc.

And yeah, Vonna Pearl aren't really crappy, they are just completely not distinctive or individual, sounding like about a billion other bands, and I just don't have the time or appetite to listen to anybody that's generic. That's the problem I have with so many bands, local and nationwide - they don't add anything to the conversation, they're just the same old stuff that somebody else has done before, with *maybe* a tweak or two. My listening history spans all genres (mostly, except for country-pop and newer country), and pretty much from the beginning of the 20th century until now (with some classical thrown in), so I'm just jaded, I guess.

How was EITS? What was the turnout and bar situation like?

Well, we didn't stick around for the end of EITS due to many factors (work was hell the week before for both of us, exhausted, pissed that Still Corners weren't there, too many a*holes walking around with 6-packs of Bud Light acting like they didn't care who was playing and they were just at a club living it up with their friends, and EITS just not doing it for us).

Turnout was decent (maybe 400?), whole open floor was full, around the sides not so much, balcony closed off except a VIP section. Sound was fine and bar was fine (lines of about 5 at each cash register at most).

Well, I actually did like the Lips when they were a crappy local band - got into them around the time of "Hear It Is", saw them at what's now The Barrel performing the "Priest-Driven Ambulance" in full, etc.

And yeah, Vonna Pearl aren't really crappy, they are just completely not distinctive or individual, sounding like about a billion other bands, and I just don't have the time or appetite to listen to anybody that's generic. That's the problem I have with so many bands, local and nationwide - they don't add anything to the conversation, they're just the same old stuff that somebody else has done before, with *maybe* a tweak or two. My listening history spans all genres (mostly, except for country-pop and newer country), and pretty much from the beginning of the 20th century until now (with some classical thrown in), so I'm just jaded, I guess.

So I listened to their song. Their sound is pretty good, a bit dated and really just a Jacob Dylan rip off, but I like Jacob. Their voices are fine but don't harmonize well, that's kinda of off putting. My big issue is their song composition is garbage. I can't really tell what the chorus is, the guitar solos are just kinda out of nowhere and out of place. The song just pointlessly meanders around. There's some potential there, but they need to find their own voice and need to study music composition.

So I listened to their song. Their sound is pretty good, a bit dated and really just a Jacob Dylan rip off, but I like Jacob. Their voices are fine but don't harmonize well, that's kinda of off putting. My big issue is their song composition is garbage. I can't really tell what the chorus is, the guitar solos are just kinda out of nowhere and out of place. The song just pointlessly meanders around. There's some potential there, but they need to find their own voice and need to study music composition.

Compare that song to this (the band that was supposed to be the opener for EITS) and you'll know why I was *seriously* disappointed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QXAhwsxPKQ

Livenation has its 20.00 promo going through 05/09/17.
you can check out many bands for 20 bucks at Criterion. Including Brit Floyd and Young the giant.. just a fyi

Livenation has its 20.00 promo going through 05/09/17.
you can check out many bands for 20 bucks at Criterion. Including Brit Floyd and Young the giant.. just a fyi

Hillsong Young and Free Youth Revival, and Volbeat are the other shows available. $20 incl. fees is a great deal if you like any of those bands.

Wondered this the past couple of times we went to the Criterion, never followed up, but remembered this time - what's the deal with the empty lot west of the Criterion? May've been mentioned somewhere else, but I can't remember reading about it, seems weird that it's closed off and empty during shows (and I think any other time when we've been by it) when it could be open and making money as parking...

Wondered this the past couple of times we went to the Criterion, never followed up, but remembered this time - what's the deal with the empty lot west of the Criterion? May've been mentioned somewhere else, but I can't remember reading about it, seems weird that it's closed off and empty during shows (and I think any other time when we've been by it) when it could be open and making money as parking...

When the old steel buildings were removed and some of that property sold to the Criterion group, another owner bought that property which is basically just the old foundations.

For a while, they were charging people to park there but it is not close to compliant to Bricktown design standards and after first submitting plans to re-do it, they have done a whole lot of nothing since.

When the old steel buildings were removed and some of that property sold to the Criterion group, another owner bought that property which is basically just the old foundations.

For a while, they were charging people to park there but it is not close to compliant to Bricktown design standards and after first submitting plans to re-do it, they have done a whole lot of nothing since.

Wasn't that an attorney named Joey Chaif that bought that lot ?

Just announced The XX (!!!!) for 10/12; tickets go on sale Friday.

NOW we're talking.

The Old 97's announced a September show at the Diamond Ballroom over the weekend.... Was sure hoping they would come to The Criterion or Jones Assembly.

saw the XX announcement - they're playing Austin City Limits festival and many bands fill in and around the 2 weekends of ACL with dates in the area, so hoping OKC gets a few more shows due to that.

saw the XX announcement - they're playing Austin City Limits festival and many bands fill in and around the 2 weekends of ACL with dates in the area, so hoping OKC gets a few more shows due to that.

The xx is big get for The Criterion. At least they're trying. I was tempted to make the drive down to Dallas to see them when they were at the South Side Ballroom last week, but I'm happy that I'll be able to walk to see them now. :)

Just announced The XX (!!!!) for 10/12; tickets go on sale Friday.

NOW we're talking.

Nice! Can't wait for this!

For all the grief The Criterion gets (and it is probably earned), when they are booking shows they are the exact kind of shows you would hope for. They are definitely filling a void.

For all the grief The Criterion gets (and it is probably earned), when they are booking shows they are the exact kind of shows you would hope for. They are definitely filling a void.

True but they are still only booking 1 or 2 a month, more than a year after opening.

Also last Friday, they had a total debacle at the Travis Scott show. Due to collapsing barriers near the stage, they had to completely clear the venue just as the show as about to start, tons of cop cars came, etc. In the end, I believe they did not (or were not allowed to) serve alcohol.

I'm thrilled when they get a good show every few months but they really need to get their act together, especially after all this time.

True but they are still only booking 1 or 2 a month, more than a year after opening.

Also last Friday, they had a total debacle at the Travis Scott show. Due to collapsing barriers near the stage, they had to completely clear the venue just as the show as about to start, tons of cop cars came, etc. In the end, I believe they did not (or were not allowed to) serve alcohol.

I'm thrilled when they get a good show every few months but they really need to get their act together, especially after all this time.

Don't disagree at all. I'm definitely not defending them. Just saying that the few shows they do book are the types you would hope for in this venue.

Don't disagree at all. I'm definitely not defending them. Just saying that the few shows they do book are the types you would hope for in this venue.

Right, completely agree.

And nobody wants to see this succeed more than me.

I absolutely hate giving Tulsa my money when we have this awesome venue in a great area.

Excited about The XX!!.. Last time they were in the state in Tulsa I had double booked and had to give my tickets away. definitely need more bookings like this one!

Before this show (the xx), I don't think they'd booked anyone who wouldn't have come here anyway. This is the first really impressive booking.

And even then, they've recently been to Tulsa so hardly earth-shattering.

But I'm not complaining! Really looking forward to this even though it's still 5 months out.

Right. This is exactly the kind of band that would skip OKC and play Cain's or Brady only. Actually, up-thread when I mentioned seeing tons of OKC friends/acquaintances in Tulsa at shows, the xx at Cain's a few years ago is exactly what came to mind.

Saw them at Cain's a couple of years ago. Fantastic show.

True but they are still only booking 1 or 2 a month, more than a year after opening.

Also last Friday, they had a total debacle at the Travis Scott show. Due to collapsing barriers near the stage, they had to completely clear the venue just as the show as about to start, tons of cop cars came, etc. In the end, I believe they did not (or were not allowed to) serve alcohol.

I'm thrilled when they get a good show every few months but they really need to get their act together, especially after all this time.

Very cool about the xx, am definitely getting tickets to them!

As far as getting their act together, found out that Still Corners were never really booked to open for EITS, despite having been listed on the Criterion website pretty much ever since EITS was announced, then the day of the show it showed Still Corners *and* Vonna Pearl opening, and in the end, it was only Vonna Pearl that opened. How does something like that happen, just general incompetence from the booker (Levelland)?

XX pre sale code: IDAREYOU

Just a reminder that if you buy the tickets in person from the box office (12-5 M-F), you only pay about $5 per ticket in fees instead of $13-14 in fees if you buy online. I'm lucky in that I work at Reno/Portland, so I can just drive over there at lunch and get tix...

Just a reminder that if you buy the tickets in person from the box office (12-5 M-F), you only pay about $5 per ticket in fees instead of $13-14 in fees if you buy online. I'm lucky in that I work at Reno/Portland, so I can just drive over there at lunch and get tix...

Yeah... the tickets for Jason Isbell was going to cost me an extra $12.50 (per ticket) to order online... It was $5 at the box office, which still surprised me.

Not going to be long before all the additional fees/charges for purchasing concert tickets are more than the actual ticket. It's like that commercial for the girl selling lemonade. You have the "Spilling beer on our floor fee" the "Wear and tear on our bathroom door hinges fee" the "Breathing the oxygen in our venue fee".

maybe i'm misjudging their popularity, but Band of Horses just announced an Oct 3 date at the Diamond. thought this could've been a Criterion show, capacity-wise.

and on another note, Travis Scott set a world record for performing one of his songs 14 times at the OKC Criterion show last week. skim through part of the video in this story - that crowd was crazy... kid jumps from the upper balcony down into the crowd at one point.
http://pitchfork.com/news/73574-watch-travis-scott-perform-goosebumps-14-times/

XX pre sale code: IDAREYOU

Thanks for that!.. purchased!