Also, I believe, 40 shows is only for the last 9 months of the year and the venue is still building their bookings.

Also, I believe, 40 shows is only for the last 9 months of the year and the venue is still building their bookings.

Have these all been Live Nation shows, so far?

And I guess I should correct myself about Criterion not being a promoter owned venue. A promoter does have interest in it, but Live Nation doesn't own it, just has a lease. It's my understanding, though, that the Tower Owners are not looking to be promoters themselves.

Have these all been Live Nation shows, so far?

I'm not sure.

I believe Live Nation handles all the ticket sales but there may be no easy way to tell which shows they actually book.

I know their agreement is to book a minimum number per year.


Also, I wonder if they'll start booking events like the Bricktown Events Center? Looks like most their weekends will have live music but I imagine they could book a lot of fundraisers and the like, just like their neighbor.

And I guess I should correct myself about Criterion not being a promoter owned venue. A promoter does have interest in it, but Live Nation doesn't own it, just has a lease. It's my understanding, though, that the Tower Owners are not looking to be promoters themselves.

I don't have intimate knowledge of who owns what sized piece or how many shows live nation vs. promoter booked. But neither of these theaters are live nation owned or operated. These things work on a contract like Pete mentioned to solid lock so many dates per year.

The leveland group(the wormy dog saloon) is leasing and managing both the criterion and tower properties. They also manage and promote huge music festivals multiple times per year like, but not necessarily, rocklahoma.

So after whatever fulfillment they have with the national agents they're free to book and promote their own smaller gigs, which is what I'm really looking forward to. And they've all but promised cinema nights at tower.

Third Eye Blind + Criterion = Awesome.

This Saturday night is going to be epic!

I am hoping they start booking more interesting touring acts like Grimes, Tame Impala, etc. in the near future.

^^^^^^
Agree, and I expect that it will happen.

I am hoping they start booking more interesting touring acts like Grimes, Tame Impala, etc. in the near future.

If Nathaniel Rateliff makes it through I'm down

If Nathaniel Rateliff makes it through I'm down

They just played here in November, but it would be cool to see them come back and play the criterion.

I noticed on the Criterion website that there is a concert booked for June 30 featuring Dashboard Confessional and Taking Back Sunday, yet I could find no mention of it on either their Twitter account or their Facebook page. That's one I would expect good turnout for. Am I just missing it?

Third Eye Blind but on great show at the Criterion last night.

Another packed house but because there were less under age patrons than last week (Ben Rector drew lots of teenagers) the three bars had crazy long lines.

But, had an absolute blast and this venue adds so much to the OKC scene.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/thirdeye.jpg

Third Eye Blind but on great show at the Criterion last night.

Another packed house but because there were less under age patrons than last week (Ben Rector drew lots of teenagers) the three bars had crazy long lines.

But, had an absolute blast and this venue adds so much to the OKC scene.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/thirdeye.jpg

Heading there for My Morning Jacket later this month. Hope they get those bars working faster by then lol

It was painful with the bar situation. Almost took some of the excitement away. That being said the venue is awesome and they put on a solid show

^

It only got backed up later in the evening.

We just bought a couple of drinks each before the main act went on and it worked out fine.

In fact, we were down close the stage and if I left my spot for the bar, I'd never make my way back.

Third Eye Blind but on great show at the Criterion last night.

Another packed house but because there were less under age patrons than last week (Ben Rector drew lots of teenagers) the three bars had crazy long lines.

But, had an absolute blast and this venue adds so much to the OKC scene.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/thirdeye.jpg

Yep, great show and great venue. The 20 minute bar lines were my only complaint. They either need more bartenders or a few more bars flanking the stage. Those guys know what they're doing so I'm sure they'll get it figured out.

Yep, great show and great venue. The 20 minute bar lines were my only complaint. They either need more bartenders or a few more bars flanking the stage. Those guys know what they're doing so I'm sure they'll get it figured out.

I kind of think they need a beer only bar or something. I noticed last night that a lot of people were ordering cocktails and not just low balls. Kinda triples the service time. I don't mean they shouldn't serve cocktails, but maybe a separate option for those just wanting to grab a beer or a limited cocktail selection for those wanting to just grab something and get back to the show. There was also a lot of people ordering multiple drinks because of the wait, which, of course increases the wait in line.

They've also got the main bar about about 20 feet behind the sound booth with a barricade running the length of the bar. So, you get very long lines on the ends (especially the east end) with limited access to the middle of the bar because of the crowd on the outside. So some smaller options on the wings would probably help that as well.

Or they could use severs with tablets taking orders in the lines like In N Out or chick fil a. :)

I was there also, and yes the drink situation was awful.

They easily need 2-3 of those kind of roll-a-round beer cooler/stands on the sides so people getting a bottle or two can easily get in and out. They lost a lot of potential money in the drinks category.

Also I discovered that you are allowed to bring in outside food (no drink). So that is interesting...

Long drink lines are a cardinal sin for business owners...

You have people lining up to throw down $8 on something that probably cost you less than a dollar, and you need to quickly take their money, thus encouraging to spend more.

How many thousands of dollars of pure profit did they lose on Saturday night because of this?


In this day and age, super easy to set up small areas/carts with at least beer in cans and an iPad with a card swiper.

How many thousands of dollars of pure profit did they lose on Saturday night because of this?


Yeah, for sure. They certainly have plenty of motivation to work that out a bit. I think some smaller bars would also give them some scaleability options as well. I do really feel like the place can host a show with significantly less people and it wouldn't feel like no one was there. Maybe even up to half as full and just use the lower floor. So, having a few limited bars would give them some options and if you kept them only beer or simply cocktails, then you don't even really need experienced help to staff them.

My one big question for now would be is it getting a wood floor? I don't think the art work was up yet either.

Long drink lines are a cardinal sin for business owners...

You have people lining up to throw down $8 on something that probably cost you less than a dollar, and you need to quickly take their money, thus encouraging to spend more.

How many thousands of dollars of pure profit did they lose on Saturday night because of this?


In this day and age, super easy to set up small areas/carts with at least beer in cans and an iPad with a card swiper.

Sounding like a broken record again, sorry, but do they realize it's this easy, and if so, why didn't they do that? ISTR that they're experienced folks running the Criterion, so I'm hoping they know they need to fix this, but if not, do they read OKCTalk or does somebody have to tell them that their bar model is broken and here's how to fix it?

Just baffling that, again, something that tons of places do all over the country (and city and state) isn't something they do here. Yeah, I know it's only their 2nd or 3rd show, so hopefully they get it fixed soon. Man, I could make a fortune figuring out best practices for restaurants and bars and selling it to people here, but only if they'd listen and buy it, though (horse, water, etc.), lol...

Sounding like a broken record again, sorry, but do they realize it's this easy, and if so, why didn't they do that? ISTR that they're experienced folks running the Criterion, so I'm hoping they know they need to fix this, but if not, do they read OKCTalk or does somebody have to tell them that their bar model is broken and here's how to fix it?

Just baffling that, again, something that tons of places do all over the country (and city and state) isn't something they do here. Yeah, I know it's only their 2nd or 3rd show, so hopefully they get it fixed soon. Man, I could make a fortune figuring out best practices for restaurants and bars and selling it to people here, but only if they'd listen and buy it, though (horse, water, etc.), lol...

This was their first show with a majority of the crowd being 21+ (and it was on a Saturday night). I assume that the bar crowd will be minimal for Kirk Franklin and Rick Springfield is reserved seating so I would bet that by the time MMJ is here on the 27th they will have this sorted out.

This was their first show with a majority of the crowd being 21+ (and it was on a Saturday night). I assume that the bar crowd will be minimal for Kirk Franklin and Rick Springfield is reserved seating so I would bet that by the time MMJ is here on the 27th they will have this sorted out.

Right, lines were not long at all for Ben Rector, no doubt due to the younger crowd.

This was their first show with a majority of the crowd being 21+ (and it was on a Saturday night). I assume that the bar crowd will be minimal for Kirk Franklin and Rick Springfield is reserved seating so I would bet that by the time MMJ is here on the 27th they will have this sorted out.

Randy Rodgers Band will be a heavy drinking crowd as well.

Randy Rodgers Band will be a heavy drinking crowd as well.

Yeah I'm sure it will be... I was just looking at the concerts in the near future.

Yeah I'm sure it will be... I was just looking at the concerts in the near future.
I thought RRB is May 1st not 21st.

They'll get it figured out, don't really understand the panic on the board.

Who's panicking?

All I see are valid observations and ideas for improvement.

or you could always pre-game at tapwerks/bricktown brewery/etc. and get better beer for lower prices!

or you could always pre-game at tapwerks/bricktown brewery/etc. and get better beer for lower prices!

I like going to Slaughter's Hall and/or WSKY before and after. Can usually find a free space near DD and walk to and from the show.

Hahahaha I seriously doubt they need to read OKCTalk to know their bar was struggling to keep up OR how to fix it. These guys are pros, and the building itself still isn't even finished yet. They will work it out, guaranteed. I agree that OKCTalk is a valuable resource, but we don't always know all of the circumstances here OR have all of the answers.

Also another thing I noticed, and perhaps there is signage coming that isn't finished yet - but there was zero indication of where the box office was. There is just three tiny windows randomly on the north wall that has people in there to buy tickets. It was just confusing because it was not immediately obvious where to buy tickets. There were several people/groups who thought you needed to go inside to buy them, so they would stand in line and get a 21+ wristband, then have to turn around and go get a ticket.

I found this out after the Ben Rector show, but they plan to be still working on this building until October/November. It has an occupancy permit, but it is far from finished.

I can armchair quarterback with the best of them, but I think everyone needs to take a deep breath here. So far the bookings have been beyond solid, the building opened in time for the first show, the sound and sightlines are good, and workers are still going at it in the place. They had an aggressive timeline, and they met it...closely enough. This is still a work in progress.

Yes, there are tons of little things to do, like add neon to the marquee, etc.

I was impressed as hell that things went so well from Day 1 and look forward to the continued improvements.

Also another thing I noticed, and perhaps there is signage coming that isn't finished yet - but there was zero indication of where the box office was. There is just three tiny windows randomly on the north wall that has people in there to buy tickets. It was just confusing because it was not immediately obvious where to buy tickets. There were several people/groups who thought you needed to go inside to buy them, so they would stand in line and get a 21+ wristband, then have to turn around and go get a ticket.

See, this is another thing that if "these guys are pros" should never have been a problem, should've been item #326 on the punchlist ("Put sign up for box office"). :) But thanks for the info, good to know since our MMJ tickets are will-call...

Hahahaha I seriously doubt they need to read OKCTalk to know their bar was struggling to keep up OR how to fix it. These guys are pros, and the building itself still isn't even finished yet. They will work it out, guaranteed. I agree that OKCTalk is a valuable resource, but we don't always know all of the circumstances here OR have all of the answers.

Yep, good points, but we so often see restaurants (and now a concert hall) do stuff that just should not be done if you know what you're doing (or *should* be done, depending on the circumstances), and it's just baffling as to why it ain't right.

Maybe I'm bringing too much of my own career experience (UNIX/mainframe systems admin/engineer) to the table - everything, absolutely everything must be completely correct for stuff to work in order for me to not get paged/called afterwards, there's not much leeway, it either works or doesn't, and I pretty much 99.999999999999% of the time make sure it's (whatever "it" is) *completely* done before I implement it. And yes, the real world is messier, but it's just weird when things don't work and it's not known why it's done that way or whether it will be fixed or not, etc.

See, this is another thing that if "these guys are pros" should never have been a problem, should've been item #326 on the punchlist ("Put sign up for box office"). :) But thanks for the info, good to know since our MMJ tickets are will-call...

You do understand that signage permitting and production is a whole other can of worms and very different than most other permitting? Design review alone can hang up the process for months. I have no idea if they plan for signage at the box office, but not at all surprised that accessory signs are not up the first couple of weeks that it is open. As Pete pointed out, they are still waiting on neon for the marquee. It is entirely possible that box office signage is connected to that somehow, or even on its own timeline. I just think the nitpicking is pretty excessive here. If anything is surprising it is that they got the building constructed and in a functional state as quickly as they did.

Oh, I totally agree that it's amazing they got it working on such a short time-frame, and yeah, signage is a whole different thing, but maybe some kind of temporary signs that say "Box Office ---->" would be nice. Not sure if they can do that, though, but surely the appropriate committees wouldn't have problems with temporary signs like that (as long as they're not misspelled in a comic sans font)?

...And yes, the real world is messier, but it's just weird when things don't work and it's not known why it's done that way or whether it will be fixed or not, etc.

I honestly don't think they owe anyone an explanation. It is a private business, and beyond that it is one that has made thousands of people very happy in only its first couple of weeks of operation. The rest will take care of itself. And yes, you are correct that "the real world" - in this case the design/finance/permitting/construction world - is quite different from an insular environment like IT where you control most if not all of the variables. I think if most people ever owned a business or built a commercial product themselves they would be far more patient and understanding of issues like these. I'm not excusing bad outright bad service or bad planning, but I honestly don't think either thing is at play with the Criterion. Like I said, it is super-easy to be an armchair QB; I do it quite often myself... ;)

It's a cultural thing about OKC (and I'm sure most other smaller markets as well). From the bank to the owner/manager to the patrons, there is not an inherent expectation that things open as if they've been open for 6 years. Why open after you finish everything when it's not a cardinal sin to open early, pay your bills and build your business? Nobody is going to care if it's not perfect as long as it functions as intended.

There are positives and negatives to this culture. In this particular case, it seems pretty clear that the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Oh, I totally agree that it's amazing they got it working on such a short time-frame, and yeah, signage is a whole different thing, but maybe some kind of temporary signs that say "Box Office ---->" would be nice. Not sure if they can do that, though, but surely the appropriate committees wouldn't have problems with temporary signs like that (as long as they're not misspelled in a comic sans font)?

That is a good point. TEMPORARY banners do not require review or permitting in Bricktown, and though they technically violate an antiquated sign ordinance, sandwich boards, windproof signs and such have tacit approval from the powers that be.

I keep remembering things from that night and coming back to this thread.

But I wanted to point out that there was a $20 parking lot directly west of the venue that had an attendant at it [not sure if it is directly affiliated with Criterion operations]. I counted less than 10 cars in the entire lot, but the venue was nearly full. This shows the impact things like this have on the city, all of these people were coming from Bricktown and Deep Deuce where they likely parked, maybe ate and drank, then walked to the venue. Things like this is how you break the mold. When we left the venue and the show was over, the price had changed to $10 on the sandwich board and there was hardly any additional vehicles. Once the show let out, there was just a mass of people walking back into the main part of Bricktown to keep the party going. It made me feel good about this city I love.

^

There was also a hot dog cart set up along Sheridan and it was doing a booming business once everyone came streaming out after the show.

Consistently bringing together 3,000 to 4,000 people in that spot certainly creates a lot of opportunities nearby.

I know my group went to Slaugther's Hall before and then Skinny Slim's afterward. And both places were quite full.

I talked with a couple of bar owner/operators who told me that they saw more of a spike in business thanks to Third Eye Blind fans than they did from Springsteen. I think that says a lot. People going to shows at Criterion are probably more likely to be out of their cars and interacting with the district than are those who are going to arena shows, where it becomes a competition to get in/out of downtown quickly before and after the show.

I talked with a couple of bar owner/operators who told me that they saw more of a spike in business thanks to Third Eye Blind fans than they did from Springsteen. I think that says a lot. People going to shows at Criterion are probably more likely to be out of their cars and interacting with the district than are those who are going to arena shows, where it becomes a competition to get in/out of downtown quickly before and after the show.

This is definitely true. It's also true for Thunder games. They bring a lot of people into downtown but many of them get in their cars and leave after the game and don't frequent downtown's businesses before or after. The Criterion on the other hand is going to be a cornerstone of nightlife in Bricktown. I predict that once the Steelyard and Bodyworks developments are complete that side of downtown is going to have a level of vibrancy not yet seen in OKC.

This is definitely true. It's also true for Thunder games. They bring a lot of people into downtown but many of them get in their cars and leave after the game and don't frequent downtown's businesses before or after. The Criterion on the other hand is going to be a cornerstone of nightlife in Bricktown. I predict that once the Steelyard and Bodyworks developments are complete that side of downtown is going to have a level of vibrancy not yet seen in OKC.


I agree, if you look at ads for residential in DD now, they often include buzzwords like Chesapeake Arena and Bricktown and Harkins.

Criterion is going to be one of these buzzwords.

I talked with a couple of bar owner/operators who told me that they saw more of a spike in business thanks to Third Eye Blind fans than they did from Springsteen. I think that says a lot. People going to shows at Criterion are probably more likely to be out of their cars and interacting with the district than are those who are going to arena shows, where it becomes a competition to get in/out of downtown quickly before and after the show.

Apples to ... Springsteen was over at 11:15 on a Sunday night compared to what time on a Saturday night? Way different priorities for folks that work Mon-Fri. Bad comparison.

Does anyone if they're going to install a more permanent stage eventually like Brady in Tulsa/Bricktown Events Center has with more elaborate curtains that extend to the roof? Or are they going to stick with the makeshift stage with temporary curtains on the side being the partition between the band and the "backstage"?

The only operation difference I noticed between the 2 shows was them giving drink wristbands outside the venue for 3rd Eye Blind. Didn't notice any other changes with the venue or operation.


Just a list of things that have been mentioned we're hoping they knock out over the next few months:
- Different flooring on top of the cement. Wood floors like Cains?
- Bar solutions to avoid the long lines
- More permanent stage and curtains
- Does that center chandelier light up? It needs to.
- Better marquee & box office signage

See, this is another thing that if "these guys are pros" should never have been a problem, should've been item #326 on the punchlist ("Put sign up for box office"). :) But thanks for the info, good to know since our MMJ tickets are will-call...

I bought my tickets at the door, found the Box Office window without any issue and was already well into drowning my sorrows post final four "game". We stepped out of an uber, someone said "Where do we buy tickets?", we looked to the right of the entrance and saw the box office. I guess if you've never been to a concert before, you might choose to wait in a long line at the end of which security staff are clearly scanning tickets at the entrance instead of first looking around to check for a box office or will call window...but it didn't seem that difficult to make the distinction between box office line and entry line.

Would making it more obvious help some people? Sure, so they probably should add a sign...but it didn't seem like a glaring "they don't know what they're doing" type of oversight.

I think if most people ever owned a business or built a commercial product themselves they would be far more patient and understanding of issues like these.

True, though I still don't know if I would call my restaurant and bar "Gigglez" :tongue:

(Full disclosure: I really like Gigglez...but come on, those namez...)

I keep remembering things from that night and coming back to this thread.

But I wanted to point out that there was a $20 parking lot directly west of the venue that had an attendant at it [not sure if it is directly affiliated with Criterion operations]. I counted less than 10 cars in the entire lot, but the venue was nearly full. This shows the impact things like this have on the city, all of these people were coming from Bricktown and Deep Deuce where they likely parked, maybe ate and drank, then walked to the venue. Things like this is how you break the mold. When we left the venue and the show was over, the price had changed to $10 on the sandwich board and there was hardly any additional vehicles. Once the show let out, there was just a mass of people walking back into the main part of Bricktown to keep the party going. It made me feel good about this city I love.

I really hope this becomes case more often throughout Bricktown as more parking garages are built. If the owners of those surface lots can't make the crazy money they have over the years on weekends and for events, they will be much more likely to develop or off load them.

This is definitely true. It's also true for Thunder games. They bring a lot of people into downtown but many of them get in their cars and leave after the game and don't frequent downtown's businesses before or after. The Criterion on the other hand is going to be a cornerstone of nightlife in Bricktown. I predict that once the Steelyard and Bodyworks developments are complete that side of downtown is going to have a level of vibrancy not yet seen in OKC.

To be fair, most Thunder games are on week nights or Sundays and end between 9:00-10:00, so by that point most fans would likely go home no matter where the event was held. As far as before the game, many people try to get into the arena between 6:00 - 6:45 which is only around an hour after the work day ends. Both of those factors don't leave a lot of time to hang out anywhere downtown unless you live around the core or work downtown and come to work prepared to go directly to the game. A lot of downtown workers obviously do that, but many don't work downtown and/or leave work (where ever that may be), go home to change, and head to the game afterward. It would be interesting to compare the impact between week night and weekend games.

The Springsteen concert was also on a Sunday, so that may have contributed to the lower impact after the concert, though I wouldn't think that would make much difference beforehand.

...The Springsteen concert was also on a Sunday, so that may have contributed to the lower impact after the concert, though I wouldn't think that would make much difference beforehand.

Exactly. The guys I spoke with were talking about the pre-show pop. But you can't blame a guy who posts as Jersey Boss for being defensive about anything that might be construed to be critical of a Springsteen crowd... ;)

Just saying that I think proportionate to seating size I expect Criterion concert-goers to treat a Criterion show as an outing, whereas an arena show can seem like a hassle. The Criterion crowd on the whole is more likely interact with the district, I believe.

^

It also helps that most the shows at the Criterion are $30 / ticket, which makes it a little easier for people to spend money before and after.

Does anyone if they're going to install a more permanent stage eventually like Brady in Tulsa/Bricktown Events Center has with more elaborate curtains that extend to the roof? Or are they going to stick with the makeshift stage with temporary curtains on the side being the partition between the band and the "backstage"?



I don't think they will .. but I could be wrong. the Moody theater in Austin where ACL is taped has a similar stage setup. just open to the room no curtain or permanent stage really. it allows for different sizes of setups and is a bit more flexible.

I would think Criterion would cause more of a pop than say a Thunder game or concert. Like Pete said due to the ticket prices and the arena is sort of set up as a one stop shop with many food and beverage options especially when it comes to Thunder games.

^

It also helps that most the shows at the Criterion are $30 / ticket, which makes it a little easier for people to spend money before and after.

don't forget the $12 fees added to that ticket price!

although, someone mentioned buying a ticket at the box office window - did they tack the fees onto the price there?

Just saying that I think proportionate to seating size I expect Criterion concert-goers to treat a Criterion show as an outing, whereas an arena show can seem like a hassle. The Criterion crowd on the whole is more likely interact with the district, I believe.

No argument there. Definitely agree.

don't forget the $12 fees added to that ticket price!

although, someone mentioned buying a ticket at the box office window - did they tack the fees onto the price there? no they don't. I don't know about live nation but Ticketmaster takes online sales at the same time the boxoffice opens. And they don't reserve a certain number for box office sales. So often times the people who camp out to get box office tickets find the show sold out before they get to the window...it's all about that $12 convenience fee plus the extra if you want willcall or a physical ticket mailed, which I do because I have a box of stubs I started when I was 14. Part of the reason they do this is because the fees and surcharges are 100% net to the ticket broker, 0 to the band or venue. Which is probably twice the $$$ than they make from a box office ticket sale alone.

... I have a box of stubs I started when I was 14....

People think I'm nuts when I tell them the same thing (except I was 12 when I went to my first concert), glad I'm not alone.

:rock_on:

^^^^^^
I did the same since the first show I paid for; a Styx show in Wichita in 1981. I wish I had the stub from the first show I actual attended, which was Elvis Presley in 1976 when I was 9. A neighbor kid who was a year or two older than me was inexplicably a giant E fan, so his mom took us both. We sat in the rafters. I knew my mom was a giant fan and I knew most of the songs from her playing them, but at the time didn't really get what a special opportunity it was for me.

I kept saving most of my stubs up unti print at home became the norm. Haven't counted them, but I've seen hundreds of shows. For most of my life concerts were probably my primary form of entertainment.

^^^^^^
I did the same since the first show I paid for; a Styx show in Wichita in 1981. I wish I had the stub from the first show I actual attended, which was Elvis Presley in 1976 when I was 9. A neighbor kid who was a year or two older than me was inexplicably a giant E fan, so his mom took us both. We sat in the rafters. I knew my mom was a giant fan and I knew most of the songs from her playing them, but at the time didn't really get what a special opportunity it was for me.

I kept saving most of my stubs up unti print at home became the norm. Haven't counted them, but I've seen hundreds of shows. For most of my life concerts were probably my primary form of entertainment.

Lucky you, Elvis, man, even if you didn't grasp the significance! My first was KISS in 1977, but my dad wanted to beat traffic, so we left before the encore, and me and my brother got soooooooo pissed at him for that, he didn't go with us to any shows after that, he just dropped us off and told us to call him when it was over. :) I'm guessing you and me saw some of the same shows, I'm only 2 years older than you...