Out of curiosity (seriously, cause I don't know anything about the development world other than what I read on here) who would hold their feet to the fire and how?
Not sure what you mean by holding their feet to the fire. Anyone can buy property and speculate. They have to maintain it so as not to be a public nuisance or hazard, but they aren’t forced to sell, or build, or do anything with it. However, it is stupid to buy something for a lot of money and not expect some return on it. If there is a bonafide reason for the public’s interest, the city can try to take it for fair market value, but presumably not for a private commercial venture. Given there is so much developable land in downtown OKC, it might be hard to prove the public’s interest in this one.

Not sure what you mean by holding their feet to the fire. Anyone can buy property and speculate. They have to maintain it so as not to be a public nuisance or hazard, but they aren’t forced to sell, or build, or do anything with it. However, it is stupid to buy something for a lot of money and not expect some return on it. If there is a bonafide reason for the public’s interest, the city can try to take it for fair market value, but presumably not for a private commercial venture. Given there is so much developable land in downtown OKC, it might be hard to prove the public’s interest in this one.

Not sure if you meant to quote me on this. I was asking about JRod's post where he said that snake oil salesmen developers in this town rarely have their feet held to the fire. I was asking how that would be done. Seems to me the only way to 'punish' someone for buying that land and trying to re-sell it a few years later for double the price would be to....not buy it.

Not sure if you meant to quote me on this. I was asking about JRod's post where he said that snake oil salesmen developers in this town rarely have their feet held to the fire. I was asking how that would be done. Seems to me the only way to 'punish' someone for buying that land and trying to re-sell it a few years later for double the price would be to....not buy it.

You're absolutely right, there really isn't anything that can be done besides "Not Buy". I'll be flat out honest about my biased and dislike towards the developers of this project. I just hate seeing good properties sit empty for years because the owners are holding out for a ridiculous amount of money when they've made no improvements to the land itself. Again just my personal opinion...

LVT anyone?

OCURA is preparing to reissue the RFP for the portion of the property owned by the city.

The had previously selected Jonathan Russell's group, but they failed to perform and never closed on the property.
Looks like Russell was trying to combine this with the adjacent property that he owns, then flip it.

In any event, this signals the official death of the Times Square project.

Not sure how a developer could make this work without Russell's land. Will be interesting to see what happens.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/4thEKG121818b.jpg

Is there any change the land could still be combined or will they be forced to submit the RFP with just the highlighted land?

Is there any change the land could still be combined or will they be forced to submit the RFP with just the highlighted land?

The RFP is just for the highlighted land, which is all that is owned by the city.

I suspect anyone who applies will also try to option Russell's property, but they would have to do that independent of the RFP.

https://newsok.com/article/5626159/dueling-developments-proposed

I'll have both proposals this morning.

Here are renderings for the Rose Rock proposal, the same group that won the right to develop Boulevard Place next to the proposed convention parking garage.

This would be 8 stories with an unidentified bank tenant on the ground floor, 3 levels of structured parking above and then 3 stories of office that would be partially leased by the bank, plus a rooftop structure for a restaurant.
More to come.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank99.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank5.jpg

this might just be me... but that looks really ugly... maybe it's just the color scheme... but i hate

this might just be me... but that looks really ugly... maybe it's just the color scheme... but i hate

Yeah there just isn't much design too it. Looks like a big rounded block, kinda like a placeholder someone would put in a big overview map...not a rendering of the building itself.

^^agree.. also, I like the idea of a bunch of living units over office space. I'd like to see renderings for the second proposal which includes apartments

Give them a lot of credit for incorporating the parking structure into the design.

this might just be me... but that looks really ugly... maybe it's just the color scheme... but i hate
This mirrors my thoughts.

Yeah this isnt the best haha.

I don't... I can't... What?

That's a lot of copper for someone to steal...

Give them a lot of credit for incorporating the parking structure into the design.

truth. However, In this case, I also didn't mind the parking set up in the other proposal, which was right up against the BNSF viaduct. That kept the entrance to the garage back by the viaduct, rather than breaking up EK retail frontage with a drive like in this proposal.

As for the bank, my guess would be Arvest.

The two big boys already are already set downtown; BOK and BancFirst.

Could be MidFirst but unlikely as they have their own campus at I-44 and Grand.

truth. However, In this case, I also didn't mind the parking set up in the other proposal, which was right up against the BNSF viaduct. That kept the entrance to the garage back by the viaduct, rather than breaking up EK retail frontage with a drive like in this proposal.

The Bomasda proposal (apartments) includes the city land and the Jonathon Russell land that fronts the tracks and 4th Street.

The Rose Rock proposal only involves the city land (below), which fronts EKG.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/4thekg031819a.jpg

I actually like it. Incorporated parking, built up to the sidewalk, street retail, rooftop restaurant. So much better than even the tower that was proposed. Not saying it's the prettiest thing, but has all the elements of a winner. Will go a long way in making that part of Gaylord less desert like.

Downside for apartments being there = Window view of the cock ring...

truth. However, In this case, I also didn't mind the parking set up in the other proposal, which was right up against the BNSF viaduct. That kept the entrance to the garage back by the viaduct, rather than breaking up EK retail frontage with a drive like in this proposal.
Which is how it should be, IMO. Put the parking back by the tracks/viaduct and let's leave the street frontage for something better.

The rooftop restaurant is really cool, but this needs to be taller and have apartments for purchase.

Are there pictures for the Bomasda proposal?

Are there pictures for the Bomasda proposal?

Rose Rock, not the apartments proposed by Bomasada (same group that did the Metropolitan Apartments just to the east).

The rooftop restaurant is really cool, but this needs to be taller and have apartments for purchase.

Won't happen in downtown OKC. I can't remember the last new decently tall residential development in OKC in general, let alone downtown.

However, contrary to what everyone here is moaning and groaning about, I do not at all (like, -100%) believe these are the final designs. These are more than likely placeholders demonstrating the shape and form, rather than design.

Bomasada's proposal:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bomasada031819c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bomasada031819a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bomasada031819b.jpg

Honestly i do like how they used the land; however, i'm not a fan of the design.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank7.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okbank8.jpg

now if only the second proposal would through in that curbside restaurant on the first floor by 4th and gaylord... i'd be all over this proposal!

The Bomasada apartment proposal doesn't have any retail or commerical space.

Just a bunch of apartments on 6 levels plus some amenities for their residents.


Reminder this is not a design application for Rose Rock. They would still have to go through the Downtown Design Review Committee before anything was approved and I'm sure the design would be tweaked.


Neither project is asking for any sort of TIF or public incentives.

Hopefully the city has learned from its past mistakes and awards the contract to the proposal most likely to actually be built instead of awarding it to the "sexy" proposal, resulting in it still being a vacant lot with maybe a basketball court on it 5 years from now.

Would rather see the rose rock prop done. We have enough apartment blocks right now.

^

Both developers have very strong track records.

And remember, this is city-owned land unlike the Stage Center property. That means the developer has to develop the property within an agreed-upon time frame or the city can take the property back and reissue the RFP. In fact, that's exactly what happened here when Jonathan Russell could not perform on the Times Square project and why this particular RFP was issued.

As for the bank, my guess would be Arvest.

The two big boys already are already set downtown; BOK and BancFirst.

Could be MidFirst but unlikely as they have their own campus at I-44 and Grand.

MidFirst closed their downtown location at Park and Robinson in June, so I would doubt they are coming back.

Would rather see the rose rock prop done. We have enough apartment blocks right now.

vehemently disagree. More housing the better

Man, I'm actually really digging the Rose Rock design. I like that it is 100% street level, and leaves about half the land for another development in the future. I love the way the building curves with Gaylord. Love that the parking is integrated into the design itself.

I really like the Rose Rock design as well, to me it seems more unique than Bomasada’s.

Man, I'm actually really digging the Rose Rock design. I like that it is 100% street level, and leaves about half the land for another development in the future. I love the way the building curves with Gaylord. Love that the parking is integrated into the design itself.

I agree with all those points. Aesthetically it leaves a bit to be desired in my eye, but like others have posted, this is prolly a placeholder design.

I hope these are both placeholders, because in my opinion, they are both hideous.

The apartments should be a non-starter on that corner due to the lack of street-level retail and services. That corner, in bridging the CBD, Automobile Alley, and Bricktown/Deep Deuce is way too important for cookie cutter. And boy, is that cookie cutter. It looks like every other apartment block that has been built everywhere.

The office building is marginally better. It has street level retail and it's not cookie cutter, but that weird screen...it just looks...I don't know...cheap looking. It is a good thing that it curves with E.K. Gaylord. I guess that would be my choice of the two but I was really hoping that something more substantial would be done with that lot.

I hope these are both placeholders, because in my opinion, they are both hideous.

The apartments should be a non-starter on that corner due to the lack of street-level retail and services. That corner, in bridging the CBD, Automobile Alley, and Bricktown/Deep Deuce is way too important for cookie cutter. And boy, is that cookie cutter. It looks like every other apartment block that has been built everywhere.

The office building is marginally better. It has street level retail and it's not cookie cutter, but that weird screen...it just looks...I don't know...cheap looking. It is a good thing that it curves with E.K. Gaylord. I guess that would be my choice of the two but I was really hoping that something more substantial would be done with that lot.

i will agree with this.

More residential, more residential, more residential!

Hopefully Bomasada wins out, love the development!

More residential, more residential, more residential!

Hopefully Bomasada wins out, love the development!

but would prefer residential with first floor retail on a massive intersection like this

Of course, but it's not a deal breaker, as there is enough retail a couple blocks north on Automobile Alley.

I think the Rose Rock development could be good with the right color scheme (which, as others have pointed out, it doesn't currently have). However, I do wish it had some residential component to it. The street interaction is great and the curve would add a really unique touch to that corner. I certainly want to see more residential downtown, but that is basically the only positive thing I can say for the 2nd proposal. Especially at that corner, I think it is a must to at least have some first level retail.

I like the idea of more residential close to Auto Alley but I like the Rose Rock design better. However both need tweaks. Especially some retail with the apartments

Personally, I really like the Rose Rock development. I greatly prefer how the building is right up to the street, and includes a mix of office, retail, and restaurant space. The building's facade is kinda 80's-meets-modern-facelift to me, but truthfully, I kinda dig it. And I really like how they're integrating floors of parking in the building itself. That's a definite winner in my book. I really honestly hope that this proposal gets selected by OCURA.

The Bomasada proposal is nice and I want to see them build more in OKC, but the density is way too low, there's no mixed-use component at all, and it's not built out to the street. Yes, we absolutely, absolutely do need more residential in the core. That goes without saying. But I don't think the Bomasada proposal is the best use of that land. It's too suburban looking. Remember, this is the CBD we're talking about. The core of the City. This needs to be DENSE.

You know what I'd absolutely love to see? Build the Rose Rock development on the OCURA land, then reconfigure Bomasada's proposal to fit on the remaining open land, and adjust it to fit the urban environment better. Make the apartments taller, and incorporate a couple of levels of parking in the base, for starters - and ensure that even if there's an open central courtyard, that the street frontage comes right out to the street. Add in some more spots for office, restaurants, and retail that face 4th and 3rd. Combine the two proposals for this area like that, and it'd be absolutely amazing!

personally, i really like the rose rock development. I greatly prefer how the building is right up to the street, and includes a mix of office, retail, and restaurant space. The building's facade is kinda 80's-meets-modern-facelift to me, but truthfully, i kinda dig it. And i really like how they're integrating floors of parking in the building itself. That's a definite winner in my book. I really honestly hope that this proposal gets selected by ocura.

The bomasada proposal is nice and i want to see them build more in okc, but the density is way too low, there's no mixed-use component at all, and it's not built out to the street. Yes, we absolutely, absolutely do need more residential in the core. That goes without saying. But i don't think the bomasada proposal is the best use of that land. It's too suburban looking. Remember, this is the cbd we're talking about. The core of the city. This needs to be dense.

You know what i'd absolutely love to see? Build the rose rock development on the ocura land, then reconfigure bomasada's proposal to fit on the remaining open land, and adjust it to fit the urban environment better. Make the apartments taller, and incorporate a couple of levels of parking in the base, for starters - and ensure that even if there's an open central courtyard, that the street frontage comes right out to the street. Add in some more spots for office, restaurants, and retail that face 4th and 3rd. Combine the two proposals for this area like that, and it'd be absolutely amazing!

this!!!!!!!!!!

First impression I like the first option better, probably because they provided a rendering of how it interacts with the curve of Gaylord so I can envision it being there. This doesn't have to be a tower to activate that side of the road with a nice street wall.

I assume they would have been posted if they existed, but are there any more renderings of the Bomasada proposal? It looks so...cookie cutter modern apartment.

First impression I like the first option better, probably because they provided a rendering of how it interacts with the curve of Gaylord so I can envision it being there. This doesn't have to be a tower to activate that side of the road with a nice street wall.

I assume they would have been posted if they existed, but are there any more renderings of the Bomasada proposal? It looks so...cookie cutter modern apartment.

Bomasada didn't submit renderings, just the site plan plus a couple of their projects that are similar.

Just picture a 6-story Metropolitan and that would likely be darn close.

Oh, that makes more sense. Looking at the pictures plus the site plan I couldn't really reconcile the concept as a whole.

A 6-story Metropolitan does sound pretty good.

LOL. Looking at their projects (http://www.bomasada.com/intro-1) they really like the name Metropolitan. That and Enclave.

This would be called The Liam.

Perhaps we can lobby for Enclave.

Haha "the Enclave" like its some bougie oasis keeping out the riff-raff of the hip but s C a R y downtown.

The Liam sucks as a name.

Why does everything need to have name? Especially when the names are drawn out of a consultant’s hat on what sounds sanitized enough to not offend anybody.

I too like the Rose Rock proposal. It's unique! That being said, I would like a residential component to it. Maybe an apartment tower on the vacant land behind it. And instead of that copper looking coating, how about a screen of some sort that's playing news, or whatever? Kinda like at the new NewsOK building, but much bigger.

I'm asking a real question-how many residential units are currently in the Urban Core, and how many are already under development? Next-any idea what the current demand is?

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29315&p=524906#post524906
Pete has the best list for residential units, as well as hotel and others, already compiled. But looks to be a little over 5,000 units.