cant wait for this to start construction work and demolition

Is there a groundbreaking date?

I really think Penn Square is overthinking it. Penn Square will still have tenants seeking a more traditional mall setting. Plus, it has anchor spots, which may allow for a Nordstrom or the like to come in, if the current ones fail (JCP).

It's really the large department store anchors that have been hurt the most. I don't see demand for large anchor spots returning soon, unless they can successfully lobby for government incentives to compete with those given to Amazon. I think they typically get good leases as anchors, but even that hasn't seemed to save them.

But I agree they are over worried about it. I think, in general, it will just bring more shoppers to the area and could actually help increase traffic at the mall. The connection between the two does suck, but most retail here is poorly connected. If people will put up with a retail corridor layout like Memorial, I think they won't think much of crossing the expressway to go to both Penn Square and OAK. It'd still be more efficient than shopping on Memorial, anyway, even if it could be a lot better if they worked together.

Is there a groundbreaking date?

There is still work to be done...

They have to get some easements closed and a bunch of other things.

I wouldn't expect to see any demolition for a while yet.

Do you know if it's fully financed?

Do you know if it's fully financed?

I believe so.

I'm certainly thrilled to see this project progressing. Two thumbs up!

But to address a topic from upthread, I'm not surprised at all that Penn Square would be against this development. Enclosed malls are in trouble. Penn Square has been somewhat insulated from that in OKC because of location, momentum and tenant mix. I doubt Penn Square is in deep trouble at the moment but they can't like added competition. BC Clark is moving to Classen Curve. I could certainly envision some of the mall's higher-end tenants seeking a move to this location when it is built. The likes of J. Crew etc. If those tenants don't move, they might at least be able to threaten a move to obtain rent concessions from the mall. I know we all would like to see brand new retailers come in, but the experience with Classen Curve already has demonstrated that it's a slow process. In the Amazon world there's a lot in flux in retail.

But the thing is, Penn Square could reinvest in itself and add more space/parking.

We have malls here (Alderwood Mall, Northgate Mall, Bellevue Square, Southcenter Mall) each of whom were similar in design to Penn (particularly Alderwood in size) but changed in recent years adding lots of additional retail that faces outward. Instead of having Cheesecake Factory as a separate building, it's built as an addition to the mall "complex" with it's own facade and doors, usually with several more retail as well - so the mall itself gets bigger and the design is refreshed taking advantage of both the 'traditional' indoor mall and the new push for outdoor/lifestyle centers.

Penn could do this (and should), and they also could go the Tyson's Corner model and wrap the entire mall in a garage. Lots of options that Penn could and should take, to take advantage of the new shopping model - adding lifestyle components to their already successful but AGING traditional indoor experience.

the new Alderwood Mall - Lynnwood, WA (north Seattle metro)
15517155181550915510155111551215513155141551515516

15519
note in the last pic that they tore down the old Sears and rebuilt that and the entire mall just about with lifestyle elements/additions, and rebuilt the food court). Macy's and Nordstrom both also refreshed their facades and garages were added, JC Penny's is the only, original design as is that side of the mall. You can see the original Nordstrom in the last pic - horrible looking. ...

LAYOUT - you can see the original JC Penney's sandwiched on the left between two new parking garages. See new lifestyle elements added on the upper right, SEARS was on the right but was torn down. Lower left is the new food court which fronts LOWES theatre and more lifestyle retail.
15520

What's missing are I-5 (would be far right) and WA-522 (would be on the top). Although smaller, Alderwood Mall is situated very similar to Crossroads and -like Crossroads- doesn't have immediate access from the freeways.

Speaking of Crossroads, Just imagine if they added retail frontage in between their anchor stores - they might still be around today as I do think OKC can support three regional malls (particularly if there aren't as many overlapping stores).

The Oklahoman article about the City Council approval: Mixed-use development rezoning approved over Penn Square Mall objections (https://oklahoman.com/article/5638577/mixed-use-development-rezoning-approved-over-penn-square-mall-objections)


Hight said they were caught by surprise when the rezoning request changed from a 50-foot setback and 35-foot-high limit for buildings facing nearby homes to no setback and a 75-foot height limit. The developers agreed to a 10-foot setback during the planning commission process, and the city council on Tuesday changed the height limit from 75 to 60 feet.

Does this change from 75 to 60 mean anything for that tallest building in the proposal?


The council approved the zoning and street alignment after being told by both city planning staff and engineer that the project fits in with the city’s comprehensive plan. The development will also be served by a funded bus rapid transit route, the city’s first.

Yep, just was I was thinking about it the other day.

^

That height limit is only for the property immediately adjacent to the bordering homes, not the overall project.

All those images I posted the other day were the latest/greatest that were shown to the neighbors at a meeting I attended.

They show an 11-story office building that would be at least 150 feet high.

Interesting how they dealt with Penn Sq. I don't think anyone bought the "we didn't know about it" excuse for raising the objection late in the process.

Interesting how they dealt with Penn Sq. I don't think anyone bought the "we didn't know about it" excuse for raising the objection late in the process.

Nope.

At the same time, Penn Square (and Simon, the owners) pump a ton of money into the city sales tax coffers.

So, it's important to keep them happy even when they are being a bit ridiculous. Holt did a good job navigating that issue.

^

That height limit is only for the property immediately adjacent to the bordering homes, not the overall project.

All those images I posted the other day were the latest/greatest that were shown to the neighbors at a meeting I attended.

They show an 11-story office building that would be at least 150 feet high.

Nice! I was worried about too many sops to Nimbys.

So how confident and when do you think construction could begin on this project Pete?

So how confident and when do you think construction could begin on this project Pete?

I'm very sure this project will happen, but it's going to take time.

There are still tenants in those office buildings and I'm sure they'll want a good number of tenant commitments before they start any work.

Any updates on this as of yet Pete?

I'm really excited about this project. I don't understand the name though. Penn Central or Penn Station or 50 Live - but OAK? And capitalized as if it's an acronym? Don't like it. But the project will be awesome. What a busy and bustling square mile in our city it all will be.

Any updates on this as of yet Pete?

I doubt anything will happen, materially, until mid 2020 or so. But I could be wrong.

They still have tenants in the office buildings and the rental houses.

It will take time to clear them all out and before you see any movement in terms of demolition.

But I do know they are out blowing and going and trying to sign up tenants. This is just one of those things that will take time.

It's becoming more and more obvious that we are firmly in the backside of the Credit Cycle. The McNeills might be rich AF, but they aren't idiots.

I'll be very surprised if this goes forward as planned: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-repo/fed-adds-105-billion-in-cash-to-u-s-banking-system-idUSKBN1W91KS.

Maybe that's what they're waiting for...If you have the money, you have the money. Waiting to build until after the recession has hit is a good way to build cheaper.

Additionally, Oklahoma City is still super affordable, so there's only so much prices can go down here. The cost of living factor becomes more enticing to those living in more expensive cities when the recession hits, and the recession proof city moniker has no reason to have left because it's always been built on a diverse economy (at the city level, not state) and we've only continued to diversify since that moniker came about ~10 years ago.

NOt saying a recession couldn't impact this development, but I do think the economics nationally/globally are not going to be as big of a factor for this development.

It will all depend on their pre-leasing.

I know that have several good retailers and restaurants on the hook.

I know someone who is currently in an office on this property and his lease has been bought out. Additionally he said that there were multiple moving vans on site today.

I was just going to post that I saw several moving vans today at the Regent building.

Hey Pete, any news as of yet?

Hey Pete, any news as of yet?

Even though some tenants have moved out of the existing office buildings, there are still several still operating, so those structures aren't coming down any time soon.

Any news on this? Their social media is active but it's been quite a while since I've heard anything.

Any news on this? Their social media is active but it's been quite a while since I've heard anything.

They have been seeking public incentives, even before the virus.

I strongly hope that I am incorrect, but I have a feeling this project is going to be a casualty of the virus/recession. I was reading an article today about how all the department store chains are failing. Neiman Marcus just declared bankruptcy. Macy's, Sears, JC Penney only have a few months of cash. Some stuff will certainly survive, and maybe the kinds of local boutiques this development would include, are among those. But I just think the next year is going to lay bare how "over retailed" this whole country is. And does anybody really think OKC is going to be in a position to offer tax incentives for something like this?

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

Looks like they're soliciting information from the public about what they'd like to see incorporated re: COVID-19, or perhaps getting a sense of if things need to be delayed based on public concern about public gatherings.

https://bit.ly/OakOKCSurvey

The 8 houses on Barnes (outlined in green below) are now completely abandoned and starting to look pretty shabby with broken windows and trash.

In the photo below, you can see the utilities have been marked and I suspect they'll be performing demolition soon.

I'm not advocating for preventing demo, but I love these mid-century houses, so much so I bought one in the neighborhood to the south.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak070520a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/barnes070520a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/barnes070520b.jpg

BTW, there are still a bunch of cars every weekday at The Registry, the office building on the west end of this project.

Some tenants have moved out but there are still several operating.

The 8 houses on Barnes (outlined in green below) are now completely abandoned and starting to look pretty shabby with broken windows and trash.

In the photo below, you can see the utilities have been marked and I suspect they'll be performing demolition soon.

I'm not advocating for preventing demo, but I love these mid-century houses, so much so I bought one in the neighborhood to the south.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak070520a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/barnes070520a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/barnes070520b.jpg

I love those old mid century houses too. 12 pane original wood garage door, steel casement windows, and cool design features not seen any more.

Any idea as to when this project might get started?

Any idea as to when this project might get started?

No time soon.

They needed public assistance even before this entire virus/economy mess.

Noticed today they are actively trying to lease The Registry office building, after clearing out most the tenants last year.

Further evidence this project is not happening anytime soon.

Really hoping coronavirus doesn't kill this project entirely. Hopefully it is just delayed.

It sure has the feel of 2008 - great project for OKC fails due to nationwide catastrophe.

To be fair, this catastrophe is going to halt great projects and destroy existing ones in every city in the country. I doubt any particular city's relative place in the national hierarchy is going to notably change due to COVID, though all of them are certainly going to be lesser versions of their pre-virus selves.

Noticed today they are actively trying to lease The Registry office building, after clearing out most the tenants last year.

Further evidence this project is not happening anytime soon.

Any chance they can build it out in phases, starting with the area at the corner of NWExp and Penn? That will be land with costs but no income. The offices can at least create income to cover some expenses.

Any chance they can build it out in phases, starting with the area at the corner of NWExp and Penn?

I can't see how because the entire plan revolves around realigning NW 50th which requires removing all existing structures.

To be fair, this catastrophe is going to halt great projects and destroy existing ones in every city in the country. I doubt any particular city's relative place in the national hierarchy is going to notably change due to COVID, though all of them are certainly going to be lesser versions of their pre-virus selves.

Nah, only OKC will be affected :p jkjk

To be fair, this catastrophe is going to halt great projects and destroy existing ones in every city in the country. I doubt any particular city's relative place in the national hierarchy is going to notably change due to COVID, though all of them are certainly going to be lesser versions of their pre-virus selves.
Most definitely. I wasn't implying otherwise, just typed OKC project while commenting that this situation has an eerily familiar feeling to 2007-08.

They have started to demolish the Penn Park office complex.

As I mentioned earlier, The Registry building to the west has active tenants and is looking to sign new leases.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak072020a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak072020b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak072020c.jpg

Was the Penn Park office complex previously in active use? I'm still hopeful for this project, but it's going to be disappointing if we come out of it with no fancy new infill and an empty lot.

Was the Penn Park office complex previously in active use?.

Yes until they recently cleared out all the tenants.

Drove up Pennsylvania yesterday afternoon and the traffic light on the 50 Penn side had been removed. I'm guessing it had been damaged or needed repair. Anyone know anything?

The developer told me yesterday the houses on Barnes will soon be demolished.

Pete, do you think they will do it in two phases now or are just clearing the land for when they are ready to build?

I think they will move to a phased plan.

The area occupied by The Registry will likely come later.


My understanding is they will not be doing any construction anywhere on the site for a while. Just too many uncertainties right now, so that's completely understandable.

I think they will move to a phased plan.

The area occupied by The Registry will likely come later.


My understanding is they will not be doing any construction anywhere on the site for a while. Just too many uncertainties right now, so that's completely understandable.

Why demo if they aren't certain of what's going to happen?

Why demo if they aren't certain of what's going to happen?

Because they cleared out both Penn Park and the homes some time ago and neighbors were starting to complain about vandalism and squatters.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak080920a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak080920b.jpg

Hey! I can see my house from here.

Hey! I can see my house from here.

We're neighbors as I live a few blocks south.

https://www.news9.com/story/5f35d17f93f0d60e8853be0f/covid19-changes-major-oklahoma-city-retail-development-

Man, OKC can't catch a break.

I understand that they are in a tough position with a lot of the space they had originally designed being un-rentable in the current climate, but by the time they re-design everything this pandemic will be in the rear view mirror (knock on wood). I wish they would just shelve it for a year and re-evaluate.

I understand that they are in a tough position with a lot of the space they had originally designed being un-rentable in the current climate, but by the time they re-design everything this pandemic will be in the rear view mirror (knock on wood). I wish they would just shelve it for a year and re-evaluate.

Before they can design and finance this, they have to have commitments from restaurants and other tenants.

They've been working on that for quite a while, but of course now any letters of intent and similar have likely been withdrawn.

The best hope is to do part of the project then hope they can be more ambitious in the 2nd phase, which is likely at least 5 years down the line.

Bad timing, we knew this was coming. Unfortunately, I have a feeling this project will take 3-5 years to fully develop.

Yeah this is super unfortunate but completely understandable. With all the uncertainty right now it makes no sense to move forward aggressively with a relatively risky project. The good news is that this is a very valuable piece of land and they didn't start construction just to abandon the project (See Left Frame Lofts LOL).