It's such a cool development. I keep hoping and praying for an Eataly, but I don't see it happening. The location at Dallas NorthPark is 46,000 sf and most of the other locations are 40-45,000 sf. It would be a huge get for development.

If 50 Penn was smart, they'd build out the base of the building towards Penn and try to land Eatly or something similar.

If 50 Penn was smart, they'd build out the base of the building towards Penn and try to land Eatly or something similar.

Yeah, there is so much potential across the street, but I met the owners (out of Florida, if I remember correctly) and I don't think they are into spending what it would take to attract a tenant like that. There is already a parking garage (one level) to the south of the building. If they could build that up and then develop everything facing Penn and Expressway, it would make the area so much better.

Honestly, if Ryan would buy that once OAK is close to being done and sink some money into, that would be the best case scenario.

Yeah, there is so much potential across the street, but I met the owners (out of Florida, if I remember correctly) and I don't think they are into spending what it would take to attract a tenant like that. There is already a parking garage (one level) to the south of the building. If they could build that up and then develop everything facing Penn and Expressway, it would make the area so much better.

Honestly, if Ryan would buy that once OAK is close to being done and sink some money into, that would be the best case scenario.

Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to expand westward, assuming the homes can be acquired at decent prices?

Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to expand westward, assuming the homes can be acquired at decent prices?

OAK already owns about a dozen homes west of the current development area.

It's such a cool development. I keep hoping and praying for an Eataly, but I don't see it happening. The location at Dallas NorthPark is 46,000 sf and most of the other locations are 40-45,000 sf. It would be a huge get for development.

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of Eataly but wow that would be huge for OKC!! That or Shake Shack, I'm 100% satisfied. We need something nationally known that we don't have yet to draw more people into the area.

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of Eataly but wow that would be huge for OKC!! That or Shake Shack, I'm 100% satisfied. We need something nationally known that we don't have yet to draw more people into the area.

This is only speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Shake Shack at OAK.

SS loves these types of developments -- seems like the perfect fit.

I do wonder what they will do with that land with the car detailer across the street they own. That is too small to do anything on, by itself. Has to be part of a bigger plan, right?

I do wonder what they will do with that land with the car detailer across the street they own. That is too small to do anything on, by itself. Has to be part of a bigger plan, right?

I'm sure they'll do another restaurant or retail building.

The lot is actually quite small.

It's such a cool development. I keep hoping and praying for an Eataly, but I don't see it happening. The location at Dallas NorthPark is 46,000 sf and most of the other locations are 40-45,000 sf. It would be a huge get for development.

One of the worst pasta dishes I've ever tried was at the Eataly store in Dallas. The marketplace is cool, but the restaurant isn't that good.

One of the worst pasta dishes I've ever tried was at the Eataly store in Dallas. The marketplace is cool, but the restaurant isn't that good.

let me guess you didn't think the pasta was cooked enough??



would love to know what you ordered?

I do wonder what they will do with that land with the car detailer across the street they own. That is too small to do anything on, by itself. Has to be part of a bigger plan, right?

It wouldn't surprise me if they attempted to purchase the parking lots to the south of the red carpet fronting Penn.

let me guess you didn't think the pasta was cooked enough??



would love to know what you ordered?

No, the pasta was overcooked, I prefer al dente, but I understand it's tricky to cook pasta al dente in large batches. However, it isn't really the pasta, the sauce wasn't very boring, I tried the Tagliatelle Alla Bolognese and Ricciarelle Alla Trapanese, the sauces and fillings smelled and tasted like they had been sitting in the kitchen for some time. Tried the mozzarella as well, was hoping it would be more special than what we can buy from the grocery stores, but that's ok, it's only $9, what do we expect? We couldn't finished what we ordered, the only thing we didn't leave behind was probably the bread.

One of the worst pasta dishes I've ever tried was at the Eataly store in Dallas. The marketplace is cool, but the restaurant isn't that good.

Interesting. We have been to two Eataly restaurants Northpark in Dallas (La Pizza & La Pasta and Terra) and then La Pizza and La Pasta in NYC Flatiron building and always had a good experience.

Interesting. We have been to two Eataly restaurants Northpark in Dallas (La Pizza & La Pasta and Terra) and then La Pizza and La Pasta in NYC Flatiron building and always had a good experience.

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

:iagree::yeahthat:

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

Yes and they only have 8 US locations. NYC (2), Vegas, Boston, Chicago, LA, Dallas and Silicon Valley. Also, it will drive foot traffic in the area, which in turn will benefit the other businesses in the area. Sort of an anchor tenant, if you will.

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

What is local?

This in itself is almost impossible to define.

Hal Smith places? He has restaurants in several states. Clark Crew? Partnered with Famous Dave's and likely expanding out of state. Fuzzy's? Dave's? Like many places, franchisee is local but HQ is elsewhere. What about the ample places that have a slew of different investors, and a bunch of them are out of state? You'd be surprised by how many 'mom and pop' places have several outside investors.

Do you even know where the owner of any restaurant actually lives? Where the profit goes? (BTW, this applies equally to 'local' real estate developers, where the money is often flowing in and then back out of OKC.)


IMO, this 'local' topic is usually just virtue signaling because unless you know the owners personally and have seen their operating agreement and know all their partners, you literally have no idea which places are local, even if you could come up with a definition of what local is.


Not picking on anyone here, but this local thing comes up a lot and it's far more complicated than most people realize.

I remember back when Classen Curve was brought up, Aubrey wanted only local shop and restaurants there and nothing else. Well, at that time, it was hard to place only local places but got Tuckers, Republic and Upper Crust, but when it came to retail, it was lacking. I didn't think it really did well until it was sold to Washington Prime Group who started bringing in a bunch of national retailers and filling all of the spots.

I remember back when Classen Curve was brought up, Aubrey wanted only local shop and restaurants there and nothing else. Well, at that time, it was hard to place only local places but got Tuckers, Republic and Upper Crust, but when it came to retail, it was lacking. I didn't think it really did well until it was sold to Washington Prime Group who started bringing in a bunch of national retailers and filling all of the spots.

He also did huge discounts, free build-outs and other give-aways with Chesapeake -- not his own -- money.

As soon as Washington Prime bought out those properties, almost none of the tenants Aubrey had signed up could come close to paying market rents. In fact, many defaulted even on the bargain leases they were provided and almost everyone else did not renew at fair market rates.

I would like to see some "local" retailers here, but if it was all new to market national retailers, I wouldn't hate that either.

What is local?

This in itself is almost impossible to define.

Hal Smith places? He has restaurants in several states. Clark Crew? Partnered with Famous Dave's and likely expanding out of state. Fuzzy's? Dave's? Like many places, franchisee is local but HQ is elsewhere. What about the ample places that have a slew of different investors, and a bunch of them are out of state? You'd be surprised by how many 'mom and pop' places have several outside investors.

Do you even know where the owner of any restaurant actually lives? Where the profit goes? (BTW, this applies equally to 'local' real estate developers, where the money is often flowing in and then back out of OKC.)


IMO, this 'local' topic is usually just virtue signaling because unless you know the owners personally and have seen their operating agreement and know all their partners, you literally have no idea which places are local, even if you could come up with a definition of what local is.


Not picking on anyone here, but this local thing comes up a lot and it's far more complicated than most people realize.

Please don’t assume “virtue signaling” on me. I don’t have an agenda or “know” anyone that owns the restaurants we frequent. I listed two (Picasso and Flips) and I’ll mention 2 more (Casa Perico and The Wedge)- if they aren’t local or their backers aren’t local then please correct me.

Please don’t assume “virtue signaling” on me. I don’t have an agenda or “know” anyone that owns the restaurants we frequent. I listed two (Picasso and Flips) and I’ll mention 2 more (Casa Perico and The Wedge)- if they aren’t local or their backers aren’t local then please correct me.

Yes, my apologies, I was not responding to you directly but this subject in general.

I don't know about Flips but do no the group that owns The Wedge has a bunch of investors.

I remember back when Classen Curve was brought up, Aubrey wanted only local shop and restaurants there and nothing else. Well, at that time, it was hard to place only local places but got Tuckers, Republic and Upper Crust, but when it came to retail, it was lacking. I didn't think it really did well until it was sold to Washington Prime Group who started bringing in a bunch of national retailers and filling all of the spots.

I know he also had no problem running Crescent Market out in order to make sure Whole Foods didn't have to endure what little competition Crescent might have been.

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of Eataly but wow that would be huge for OKC!! That or Shake Shack, I'm 100% satisfied. We need something nationally known that we don't have yet to draw more people into the area.

I'll admit SS would be cool for okc because of the name, but other than that I do not see the appeal. Was super hyped to try it and when in Manila I finally had the chance, man, the hype vanished instantly. Not good at all.

On the general topic of "local", but speaking for myself, when I think "local" I'm really thinking unique. Not necessarily single location, but specific to OKC or OK. And if its larger than OK then something that started here and spread out from there. This is more a perception thing than a financial thing. I don't generally care about the investors in this regard. So, The Jones Assembly I would consider "local". Fuzzy's I would not despite being the same group behind them.

Essentially, its the rule of cool. Its "cool" to have a nice place, a tasty place, a fun place that I can go to and brag about and take people from out of town to. If its in other places its "cool" to know that it came from here and maybe I can visit the OG. The more places we have like that the "cooler" OKC and OK are. Who the investors are or where the money flows to doesn't really come into it at this level of consideration (although of course that is important at its own level; don't want to diminish that) and I expect a lot or most people who talk about "local" or thinking more in line with what I described.

And, for fairness, "cool" doesn't have to be "local". I don't think anyone would call the Gordon Ramsay spot in Chisholm Creek "local" in any way, but it is still "cool" in the way that we're one of only four locations. And of course its good to have new national retailers and restaurants coming in as well, but I think the "cool" has to be here first.

I'll admit SS would be cool for okc because of the name, but other than that I do not see the appeal. Was super hyped to try it and when in Manila I finally had the chance, man, the hype vanished instantly. Not good at all.

The grass is always greener. There is people outside of OK/KS/TX/AR that swear by Braums.

On the general topic of "local", but speaking for myself, when I think "local" I'm really thinking unique. Not necessarily single location, but specific to OKC or OK. And if its larger than OK then something that started here and spread out from there. This is more a perception thing than a financial thing. I don't generally care about the investors in this regard. ...

This is pretty much our take too - we (generally) eat at places that are either only in OKC or OK or started here and franchised/opened more locations elsewhere. We eat at a lot of places that are owned by these restaurant groups - Good Egg, 84 Hospitality, The Social Order, Happy Plate, Humankind, Chris Lowe, Stranger/Johnson. As well as taco trucks, Taqueria El Rey, random cafes, etc.

Having said that, we'll probably try every restaurant opening up here at least once. :D

Yes, my apologies, I was not responding to you directly but this subject in general.

I don't know about Flips but do no the group that owns The Wedge has a bunch of investors.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

On the general topic of "local", but speaking for myself, when I think "local" I'm really thinking unique. Not necessarily single location, but specific to OKC or OK. And if its larger than OK then something that started here and spread out from there. This is more a perception thing than a financial thing. I don't generally care about the investors in this regard. So, The Jones Assembly I would consider "local". Fuzzy's I would not despite being the same group behind them.

Essentially, its the rule of cool. Its "cool" to have a nice place, a tasty place, a fun place that I can go to and brag about and take people from out of town to. If its in other places its "cool" to know that it came from here and maybe I can visit the OG. The more places we have like that the "cooler" OKC and OK are. Who the investors are or where the money flows to doesn't really come into it at this level of consideration (although of course that is important at its own level; don't want to diminish that) and I expect a lot or most people who talk about "local" or thinking more in line with what I described.

And, for fairness, "cool" doesn't have to be "local". I don't think anyone would call the Gordon Ramsay spot in Chisholm Creek "local" in any way, but it is still "cool" in the way that we're one of only four locations. And of course its good to have new national retailers and restaurants coming in as well, but I think the "cool" has to be here first.

This is the exact sentiment I share. I was going to explain but you did it perfectly for me! Thanks!!

I know he also had no problem running Crescent Market out in order to make sure Whole Foods didn't have to endure what little competition Crescent might have been.

Wasn’t Crescent having real problems making money?

I'll admit SS would be cool for okc because of the name, but other than that I do not see the appeal. Was super hyped to try it and when in Manila I finally had the chance, man, the hype vanished instantly. Not good at all.

Aww that’s a shame that you had a bad experience! I went in London and Dallas and was blown away by the quality and service. I want it for the name and for the food haha

Wasn’t Crescent having real problems making money?

I never heard that. They were in a true niche where they were. And I don't doubt having to move woulda been a killer for a small, local business. But I never heard ownership say it was a good time to get out when they got squeezed. Or they were glad it was done.

Wasn’t Crescent having real problems making money?

yes it was going to close either way ...

Aww that’s a shame that you had a bad experience! I went in London and Dallas and was blown away by the quality and service. I want it for the name and for the food haha

Spark is very similar to SS

I am not happy about the height reduction at all.

I am not happy about the height reduction at all.

Theu guy who wants 26 stack highways is mad about a couple floors coming off a building that won't be full for years? Color me shocked. Lol

Theu guy who wants 26 stack highways is mad about a couple floors coming off a building that won't be full for years? Color me shocked. Lol
Not a huge deal but I do like taller buildings and I was hoping they’d stick to the rendering. This will still obviously be a very nice development no doubt.

Not a huge deal but I do like taller buildings and I was hoping they’d stick to the rendering. This will still obviously be a very nice development no doubt.

I wasn't bashing you. Just giving you a hard time.

I am not happy about the height reduction at all.

And they probalby weren't happy with the extra cost and the prospects of space staying vacant for quite some time. Demand for office space isn't exactly screaming.

Hadn't seen The Oak project in person until the other day. Wow! Incredible development. I wish I owned property around there. This will be a huge step forward for Oklahoma City.

In the last photo you can see the bricks going up on the hotel:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak101823a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak101823b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak101823c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oak101823d.jpg

Any idea when work is going to begin on the gallery and grill along the expressway? Would think they'd want to be completed by the time the hotel and condos are open for business.

Any idea when work is going to begin on the gallery and grill along the expressway? Would think they'd want to be completed by the time the hotel and condos are open for business.

Very soon.

Permits have been filed.

just imagine if Belle Isle Lake were still there (or rebuilt) instead of beingn reduced to a pond and that monstrocity of parking/strip;, where high-end shoppes, housing, and a boardwalk would line the lakeside. That'd be world class tie to the rest of the upscale area.

just imagine if Belle Isle Lake were still there (or rebuilt) instead of beingn reduced to a pond and that monstrocity of parking/strip;, where high-end shoppes, housing, and a boardwalk would line the lakeside. That'd be world class tie to the rest of the upscale area.

I drove from Whole Foods to 50 Penn today and thought this same thing. That area could have been so much more.

just imagine if Belle Isle Lake were still there (or rebuilt) instead of beingn reduced to a pond and that monstrocity of parking/strip;, where high-end shoppes, housing, and a boardwalk would line the lakeside. That'd be world class tie to the rest of the upscale area.

It would be even cooler than the OAK complex.

https://beckdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/bell_isle_mp-01-scaled.jpg

OAK's Instagram dropped a hint about Italian food. Wonder if that implies Eataly or some other big name place... If it were a lesser known restaurant I feel like they wouldn't rise suspense with a hint lol

OAK's Instagram dropped a hint about Italian food. Wonder if that implies Eataly or some other big name place... If it were a lesser known restaurant I feel like they wouldn't rise suspense with a hint lol

If they announced EATALY this early, I would lose my SH!T....

OAK's Instagram dropped a hint about Italian food. Wonder if that implies Eataly or some other big name place... If it were a lesser known restaurant I feel like they wouldn't rise suspense with a hint lol

All they are asking if for people's favorite.

I know they have a bunch of things in the works and an Italian restaurant is not one of them.

All they are asking if for people's favorite.

I know they have a bunch of things in the works and an Italian restaurant is not one of them.

To be fair, EATALY is several italian restaurants and a market... At least that is what I keep telling myself...

There are 15 other cities that will get an Eataly before OKC, most likely. Best to give up on that pipe dream for a few years.

All they are asking if for people's favorite.

I know they have a bunch of things in the works and an Italian restaurant is not one of them.

Good to know. Seemed so random haha

All they are asking if for people's favorite.

I know they have a bunch of things in the works and an Italian restaurant is not one of them.

Any chance/rumor/inkling of a Pappas concept? With capital grill and maseros....wouldn't think Pappas Brothers Steakhouse or a Pappascito but a Pappadeaux would be fantastic.

Any chance/rumor/inkling of a Pappas concept? With capital grill and maseros....wouldn't think Pappas Brothers Steakhouse or a Pappascito but a Pappadeaux would be fantastic.

Not that I've heard.

Remember, Pappadeaux still owns that parcel on the south side of Memorial just east of Lake Hefner Parkway.

Pappadeaux was my favorite place to eat but they got to the point where they priced me out. They are simply too expensive but as a once a year treat. I've personally found Brent's Cajun in Edmond to be a great substitute.

Drove by today and saw steel going up for Arhaus.

Pappadeaux was my favorite place to eat but they got to the point where they priced me out. They are simply too expensive but as a once a year treat. I've personally found Brent's Cajun in Edmond to be a great substitute.

You can eat at Pappadeaux in the airport.

That is not the kind of place that is going to be an anchor at this development. Might be a fit at Chisolm Creek or something.

All they are asking if for people's favorite.

I know they have a bunch of things in the works and an Italian restaurant is not one of them.

Not what I heard...

Feel like a Mi Cocina + Monkey Bar (similar to the ones in Highland Park Village) could be a good fit here and relatively feasible as a new-to-market entrant. As much as I would love an Eataly, there has to be a less than zero chance of that happening.

I don't know if Mi Cocina would open in the same development as Meseros. I wish Gloria's would open up in the old Cafe Do Brazil space.