Great Read:

Carless in OKC (http://carlessinokc.blogspot.com/)

This part is one of my biggest peeves about OKC:


2. The pedestrian infrastructure in Portland is extremely conducive to walking as a way of getting around. There are sidewalks and crosswalks everywhere, along with automatic walk signals. How does this differ from normal walk signals? Automatic signals don't have a button that has to be pushed to activate the signal; when the traffic light turns green, the pedestrian signals in that direction immediately switch to "walk." It's important psychologically to not have to "ask permission" to cross at an intersection as a pedestrian. This simple change makes a pedestrian feel welcome and included, rather than alienated. I can't tell you how many times John and I have come up to an intersection in OKC just as the light changed, but because we pushed the crossing button at just that moment, we didn't get the walk signal. It's frustrating and demoralizing; and worse of all, since we usually just go ahead and cross (after checking to see if cars are turning across the crosswalk), if we happened to be struck by a car, we would bear the liability because the walk signal wasn't on. We shouldn't have to wait through an entire traffic light cycle just because we arrived a second too late to hit the button, and we should also have some legal protection if we get hit by a car when lawfully and reasonably crossing the street at a crosswalk.

Can somebody please explain, why even [some of] the newer intersection lights do not operate this way in OKC?

The crosswalks @ 2nd and Oklahoma Ave in Deep Deuce (A brand new signal setup) are constant 'DO NOT WALK' even if the light is green for the direction you want to cross. The second you hit the button, the sign changes to the white 'WALK'. Is there any reason at all that this is not automatic? This seems absurd and like the blog says, it is alienating to pedestrians.

This part is one of my biggest peeves about OKC:



Can somebody please explain, why even [some of] the newer intersection lights do not operate this way in OKC?

The crosswalks @ 2nd and Oklahoma Ave in Deep Deuce (A brand new signal setup) are constant 'DO NOT WALK' even if the light is green for the direction you want to cross. The second you hit the button, the sign changes to the white 'WALK'. Is there any reason at all that this is not automatic? This seems absurd and like the blog says, it is alienating to pedestrians.

I think we should be even more aggressive and (in the core) give pedestrian priority. Have the crosswalks automatically give the walk signal 2 seconds before the light turns green.

I think we should be even more aggressive and (in the core) give pedestrian priority. Have the crosswalks automatically give the walk signal 2 seconds before the light turns green.No.... What we really should do is in high pedestrian traffic areas is have all lights red for a minute or two to let the people walking go in any direction in the intersection. Do you know what I mean?

I do like your idea though, I think ultimately having a minute or two of having pedestrians being able to walk any direction would be best in certain areas

http://511contracosta.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/diagonal-crosswalks-01.jpeg
Yes! I edited my post so I don't sound like I was saying Catch22's idea was bad. I like it....

Great for them, they seem to be committed. I would hate having to depend on others to help me get around.

^

They don't depend on others to help them get around. They use an assortment of different resources, and I don't think any of them include just bumming rides off of people.

^

They don't depend on others to help them get around. They use an assortment of different resources, and I don't think any of them include just bumming rides off of people.
Sure they do. They are dependent on others for getting around in areas outside of their walking/biking range, during inclement weather, or when needing to carry our haul more stuff than they can carry, etc.

Uber, timecar, taxis, buses, etc. are all dependent on others, not just bumming rides.

They seem able to cope with it fine. I'm just saying I wouldn't like it.

Sure they do. They are dependent on others for getting around in areas outside of their walking/biking range, during inclement weather, or when needing to carry our haul more stuff than they can carry, etc.

Uber, timecar, taxis, buses, etc. are all dependent on others, not just bumming rides.

They seem able to cope with it fine. I'm just saying I wouldn't like it.

I think we could all argue we are all dependent on someone even if we own a car. I think it would be shocking to every car owner if they sat down and looked at all the different locations their money was going. We are all dependent on a mechanic, a dealership, the car wash, the oil change, the gas stations, insurance, etc. The amount of money you spend on your car a year is not making you very dependent. I see what Carless in OKC is doing as freedom. They have the freedom to choose what type of transportation they want to take for certain tasks. They live downtown, so they live near a ton of taxis, buses and car sharing vehicles. They also have their legs and bikes. That seems pretty independent to me.

Time Car would like to make the argument that the better access and the amount of options makes one less dependent on others. Downtown will eventually see the carless family more often. The example Sid showed us of the multi cross walk will have to happen in order to make city living more accessible.

I'll say this, as an Uber driver here in Jax, a city that sprawls a lot like OKC, I am surprised how many people live here car-free. I have a regular rider who is a VP at a local company. She had a company car and gave it up in exchange for a monthly cash payment. She now uses Uber almost exclusively and told me she nets about $1,000 per month. I also take a lot of people to/from work who normally ride a bike but if the weather is iffy use Uber. It happens so much I am thinking of putting the bike rack on the car when I go out.

Great blog. Are these folks also on OKCTALK?

I'll say this, as an Uber driver here in Jax, a city that sprawls a lot like OKC, I am surprised how many people live here car-free. I have a regular rider who is a VP at a local company. She had a company car and gave it up in exchange for a monthly cash payment. She now uses Uber almost exclusively and told me she nets about $1,000 per month. I also take a lot of people to/from work who normally ride a bike but if the weather is iffy use Uber. It happens so much I am thinking of putting the bike rack on the car when I go out.

That is so great to hear. I think if you add the bike rack you will find more regulars. I would also like to point out how this service creates new friends and contacts. A city that travels together, grows together. Continued success to you fine sir!

That is so great to hear. I think if you add the bike rack you will find more regulars. I would also like to point out how this service creates new friends and contacts. A city that travels together, grows together. Continued success to you fine sir!

Let me say that that^ can't be more true. I like to think that I was well traveled to a lot of parts of Jacksonville, but it turns out I wasn't. I have found so many places I didn't even know existed just from driving for Uber. For those that are friends with me on Facebook I post these new places and most of them are locally owned restaurants that I have added to my rotation (Corner Taco, M Shack, Indochine, Maple Street Biscuit, Kickbacks, etc...). For years I was totally indifferent to Jacksonville. It could have been Anycity, USA but in the last few years I have really developed a sense of community in Jax, and it comes from be connected to other people in shared space. On that note - I recommend the book Traffic by Tom Vanderbelt as it goes a long ways in explain how people spending most of their time in private space has destroyed the bonds between people (although that is not the main purpose of the book). For many people, the office environment is as close as any of them get to shared space - and even it is still private.

I found myself carless at about 10:00 pm last Saturday night. The column shift lever on my pickup went non-functional and floppy. The truck was stuck in park and wasn't going anywhere. It was dark out and so I couldn't do any cursory examination of what the problem might be so I called a cab to get home. The cab ride cost about $7.50 before the tip. (btw: The Yellow Cab driver was prompt, friendly and very accommodating.) I was glad that Enterprise Rent-a-Car has started opening for a few hours on Sunday and I booked a car online when I got home. They were swamped Sunday and couldn't send anyone over to pick me up and suggested that I call a cab and that they would take the cab fare off of my rental charges. That cab ride cost $12 (plus a $3 tip). I swung by where my truck was stranded and THANKFULLY it turned out that the end of the shift cable had become disconnected from the shift arm on the transmission. I was able to reconnect it and temporarily secure it with a combination of a rubber band and some electrical tape.

I guess the main thing here is that I wonder how people can afford to take cabs around town. It costs about 75-cents to ride the bus from the house to where my truck was stranded. The cab ride was ten times that much. Unfortunately, there are no buses running at 10:00 pm.

btw: are there any mechanics in here who might know how the shift cable (on a Chevy S 10) is supposed to stay attached to the shift arm? the pin or prong that it attaches to doesn't seem to extend out enough for a nut or even an "e-clip" retainer to be put in place.

Unfortunately, there are no buses running at 10:00 pm.

This is the most unfortunate thing about our city. You would have saved so much money with the bus running 24/7. There are people that work at night and sleep during the day. Most of them running important things that make life normal in our city. Yet they have less options then a day walker. Sorry, vampire joke.

With a car sharing program, if you are a member, access is 24/7. You can go online from anywhere and make a reservation. If we had more locations and city help, we could be a viable option for a larger population.

The problem is the amount of parking spaces we are creating. This does not help traffic at all. It causes more people to drive downtown. One day we see light rail, street car, 24/7 bus system and many sharing options. When that happens, those who do still choose to own a vehicle or commute to work in their own vehicle, traffic will be light and easy. Options will be a benefit for everyone.

I found myself carless at about 10:00 pm last Saturday night.

Okay - first things first. You should have used duct tape instead of rubber bands and electrical tape. Duct tape would have been considered a permanent solution.

Second, no doubt taking a cab is expensive and there are less expensive modes of on-demand transportation. Anyhow, using your example. You paid $12 for the cab ride vs. if you made same trip in your truck you would say you could do it for the cost of the gasoline - probably $2. In your mind you come to the conclusion that it is $10 cheaper for you to own the car than it is to take the cab. How much is the repair job going to cost you? How many on-demand rides can you take for that much money? Do you make a car payment? If so, how many on-demand rides can you take for that much? Insurance, how many rides? It turns out that most of what you are paying for in car ownership is for it to sit in your driveway. People who are car-less don't pay for things they are not using when they aren't using it. I pay $14 a day just for my car to sit in the driveway. If I use it the cost goes up but my base is $14 per day. At one time I added up all the costs of owning our 2 cars. It turned out that if I lived someone where I could get rid of both of them I would save enough money to 100% cover the cost of living there. That means that I could exchange my $2400 house payment for the money I save by not owning a car. Think about that for a moment because it is kind of scary.


Welcome to The H+T Affordability Index (http://htaindex.cnt.org/)


The Center for Neighborhood Technology’s Housing and Transportation (H+T®) Affordability Index provides a more comprehensive way of thinking about the cost of housing and true affordability. The Index is the only tool of its kind that examines transportation costs at a neighborhood level. It allows users to view housing and transportation data as maps, charts, and statistics for nearly 900 metropolitan and micropolitan areas—covering 89 percent of the US population.

The Index shows that transportation costs vary between and within regions depending on neighborhood characteristics. People who live in location-efficient neighborhoods—compact, mixed use, and with convenient access to jobs, services, transit, and amenities—tend to have lower transportation costs. People who live in location inefficient places that require automobiles for most trips are more likely to have high transportation costs.

The traditional measure of affordability recommends that housing cost no more than 30 percent of income. Under this view, three out of four (76 percent) US neighborhoods are considered “affordable” to the typical household. However, that benchmark ignores transportation costs, which are typically a household’s second largest expenditure. The H+T Index offers an expanded view of affordability, one that combines housing and transportation costs and sets the benchmark at no more than 45 percent of household income. Under this view, the number of affordable neighborhoods drops to 28 percent, resulting in a net loss of 86,000 neighborhoods that Americans can truly afford.

I think we could all argue we are all dependent on someone even if we own a car. I think it would be shocking to every car owner if they sat down and looked at all the different locations their money was going. We are all dependent on a mechanic, a dealership, the car wash, the oil change, the gas stations, insurance, etc. The amount of money you spend on your car a year is not making you very dependent. I see what Carless in OKC is doing as freedom. They have the freedom to choose what type of transportation they want to take for certain tasks. They live downtown, so they live near a ton of taxis, buses and car sharing vehicles. They also have their legs and bikes. That seems pretty independent to me.

Time Car would like to make the argument that the better access and the amount of options makes one less dependent on others. Downtown will eventually see the carless family more often. The example Sid showed us of the multi cross walk will have to happen in order to make city living more accessible.
I'm taking about a direct dependence upon an immediate service being available at a moments notice. I don't have to "go online and reserve a car" or get an Uber driver lined up when I can just hop in my own car and go. You cannot convince me that depending on a transportation service of any sort is more of an independent lifestyle that owning your own car. I still have all the options listed available to me if I so choose, with the additional option of using my own car.

That said, I'm not knocking the lifestyle or people who live it, just stating it's not for me and my personal transportation wants.

I'm taking about a direct dependence upon an immediate service being available at a moments notice. I don't have to "go online and reserve a car" or get an Uber driver lined up when I can just hop in my own car and go. You cannot convince me that depending on a transportation service of any sort is more of an independent lifestyle that owning your own car. I still have all the options listed available to me if I so choose, with the additional option of using my own car.

That said, I'm not knocking the lifestyle or people who live it, just stating it's not for me and my personal transportation wants.

We know it isn't for everyone, believe me, for some reason people think we are trying to force car sharing on them. This is not the case. The people that this does work for will benefit from it and with them not owning or driving a car as much, then you benefit from less traffic. That is all that I am claiming. We have had a lot of families keep one car and then use Time Car when some one else in the family needs a car. Also, we have many car owners that buy a years membership because they have an older car that they can't seem to give up on, so from time to time that car is in the shop. This customer pays for a one year membership and is only charged when they use our vehicles. Look at it as old car insurance.

Again, it is not for everyone, but it can benefit everyone.

Second, no doubt taking a cab is expensive and there are less expensive modes of on-demand transportation. Anyhow, using your example. You paid $12 for the cab ride vs. if you made same trip in your truck you would say you could do it for the cost of the gasoline - probably $2. In your mind you come to the conclusion that it is $10 cheaper for you to own the car than it is to take the cab. How much is the repair job going to cost you? How many on-demand rides can you take for that much money? Do you make a car payment? If so, how many on-demand rides can you take for that much? Insurance, how many rides? It turns out that most of what you are paying for in car ownership is for it to sit in your driveway. People who are car-less don't pay for things they are not using when they aren't using it. I pay $14 a day just for my car to sit in the driveway. If I use it the cost goes up but my base is $14 per day. At one time I added up all the costs of owning our 2 cars. It turned out that if I lived someone where I could get rid of both of them I would save enough money to 100% cover the cost of living there. That means that I could exchange my $2400 house payment for the money I save by not owning a car. Think about that for a moment because it is kind of scary.

If you are a car owner, try this exercise for one day of work. Simply write down how long you were in your vehicle. That even means if you are sitting idle in it. This can be from home to work, work to lunch, lunch back to work, a few errands here and there, work to home and maybe home to dinner and back. Then subtract that number from 24 hours. That is how long the car sits. Most people, again not saying everyone, will find they use there car less than the amount of hours they watch TV. Kind of wasteful if you ask me.

If you are a car owner, try this exercise for one day of work. Simply write down how long you were in your vehicle. That even means if you are sitting idle in it. This can be from home to work, work to lunch, lunch back to work, a few errands here and there, work to home and maybe home to dinner and back. Then subtract that number from 24 hours. That is how long the car sits. Most people, again not saying everyone, will find they use there car less than the amount of hours they watch TV. Kind of wasteful if you ask me.
You are addressing an argument that I'm not presenting. Efficiency is one thing, independence is another. I can see your point about it being more efficient financially and perhaps even time-wise. However, what I sacrifice in time and money I make up for in the flexibility I have to go anywhere at the drop of a hat without depending on any other third party. Plus, even though I have a car, it doesn't preclude me from taking advantage of any other method of transportation. If I lived within a couple blocks of my employer, I would very likely walk or bike to work. That's a no-brainer. In an urban environment it probably makes more sense. But if I want to take off on a last-minute road-trip to go fishing in Colorado with my buddies, that becomes more of an issue without my own vehicle. You yourself state going car-less isn't for everyone - I just happen to be one of those.


We know it isn't for everyone, believe me, for some reason people think we are trying to force car sharing on them. This is not the case. The people that this does work for will benefit from it and with them not owning or driving a car as much, then you benefit from less traffic. That is all that I am claiming. We have had a lot of families keep one car and then use Time Car when some one else in the family needs a car. Also, we have many car owners that buy a years membership because they have an older car that they can't seem to give up on, so from time to time that car is in the shop. This customer pays for a one year membership and is only charged when they use our vehicles. Look at it as old car insurance.

Again, it is not for everyone, but it can benefit everyone.

I like the idea of your service as old-car insurance. A couple years ago I rented a car for a week while mine was in the shop. That may have been a better alternative than going the rental car route.

If time is your primary concern then yes - nothing can beat your own car. Well, nothing but one thing and that is time on the back end. While Ubering a few weeks ago I picked up two women who were going to dinner. They had already tried to drive their own car but after circling for 15 minutes couldn't find any parking so they went home and called an Uber car. I dropped them off at the front door. Later, I picked them up at the same front door. I have actually taken these women several times since because they gave up on trying to find parking. In your own car you can leave when you want, but you can't always arrive when you want.

Its perfect if you live in those areas and are single or in a relationship where you don't want kids. I would have been all over it 5-10 years ago. Esp if there was one in norman around campus.

But for me who live in N/NW OKC, married and probably gonna have kids soon, its not appealing anymore. Esp since I would have to take a cab/uber just to even get to a timecar location. Just a lot of hassle

I respect what time car is about though, and hope it finds its niche here.

If you live in a walkable community, you can also leave any time you want and arrive any time you want. You can also cross across parks and walk past traffic jams.

The Wheeler thread got me thinking about some questions I'd like to ask all of the people who are living a (largely) carless existence in OKC:

I would LOVE to go carless. For anybody who knows my positing history, I'm definitely pro-walkability and transit, and have lived happily in other cities without a car. "Having to" own a car is my biggest gripe about OKC.

That being said, I would like to ask few honest questions from the gallery of those who are carless in OKC:

1. Were you born and raised in the OKC metro area and have you lived the majority of your life here?

2. Do you have a majority contingent of close friends and family who live more than 10 miles from the Santa Fe Intermodal Hub?

3. Are you married?

4. Do you have kids?

5. What are your average annual expenditures for ride-sharing, bike/scooter programs, and train tickets/rental cars (which I would assume you'd use if you wanted to take a non-flight trip to something like Turner Falls)?

6. What do you think would be the minimum household income to sustain this lifestyle in OKC for 1/2/3+ people?

7. Public Transit, Density, and Bikability aside, what are one or two small but significant changes that could be made to OKC to help ease some of the pains associated with a carless existence in OKC?

The Wheeler thread got me thinking about some questions I'd like to ask all of the people who are living a (largely) carless existence in OKC:

I would LOVE to go carless. For anybody who knows my positing history, I'm definitely pro-walkability and transit, and have lived happily in other cities without a car. "Having to" own a car is my biggest gripe about OKC.

That being said, I would like to ask few honest questions from the gallery of those who are carless in OKC:

1. Were you born and raised in the OKC metro area and have you lived the majority of your life here?

2. Do you have a majority contingent of close friends and family who live more than 10 miles from the Santa Fe Intermodal Hub?

3. Are you married?

4. Do you have kids?

5. What are your average annual expenditures for ride-sharing, bike/scooter programs, and train tickets/rental cars (which I would assume you'd use if you wanted to take a non-flight trip to something like Turner Falls)?

6. What do you think would be the minimum household income to sustain this lifestyle in OKC for 1/2/3+ people?

7. Public Transit, Density, and Bikability aside, what are one or two small but significant changes that could be made to OKC to help ease some of the pains associated with a carless existence in OKC?

1. No
2. Yes
3. No
4. No
5. $200-300/month, incidentals can make this significantly more expensive
6. 55-65k/year
7. More trees along sidewalks to provide shade for pedestrians, better functioning cross walks for busy streets/pedestrian corridors.

The Wheeler thread got me thinking about some questions I'd like to ask all of the people who are living a (largely) carless existence in OKC:

I would LOVE to go carless. For anybody who knows my positing history, I'm definitely pro-walkability and transit, and have lived happily in other cities without a car. "Having to" own a car is my biggest gripe about OKC.

That being said, I would like to ask few honest questions from the gallery of those who are carless in OKC:

1. Were you born and raised in the OKC metro area and have you lived the majority of your life here?

2. Do you have a majority contingent of close friends and family who live more than 10 miles from the Santa Fe Intermodal Hub?

3. Are you married?

4. Do you have kids?

5. What are your average annual expenditures for ride-sharing, bike/scooter programs, and train tickets/rental cars (which I would assume you'd use if you wanted to take a non-flight trip to something like Turner Falls)?

6. What do you think would be the minimum household income to sustain this lifestyle in OKC for 1/2/3+ people?

7. Public Transit, Density, and Bikability aside, what are one or two small but significant changes that could be made to OKC to help ease some of the pains associated with a carless existence in OKC?

1: Yes! But I have lived briefly in other places.
2: Most of my friends live near me, most of my family lives in Edmond. I will likely hail a lyft or ride with friends when visiting my family ion the future.
3. No
4. No
5. So far, I haven't spent any money on these things and rely on my bike and walking. I have a close friend who I ride with/drive to the grocery store once a weekish. If I need an Item here or there I have multiple options near by that I can walk or bike to. I expect I won't have to ever go over $100/month unless I need to rent a car long term.
6. Depends on how close you are to school/work/grocery store etc. I honestly have no Idea. If I had a family here, I think we'd be able to get by with one car easily for childrens activities that might be all over town. But I really have no Idea.
7. Besides those three, Trees and perhaps a car sharing service for when I want to get out of town. I travel a lot to go climbing but luckily thats a sport that usually requires multiple people. My partners so far have been content with driving so long as I cover at least half of gas and drive some of the way.

To be completely honest, while I already walked or biked 90% of the time the past couple of years, I only wen't the extra 10% due to deferred maintenance on my car that was more expensive than my car was worth. But since i have completely stopped driving, I realized that that extra 10% can be cut down to even fewer car trips pretty comfortably and the total costs of renting or ubering for me seem to lower than a car payment. I'll likely get another car in a year or so once I have some more money saved up, but I might not.

Keep in mind when reading all this that despite having a functioning car at the time, I still walked to work pretty much every day this winter on even the coldest days and very much enjoyed the experience, so I might have a different perspective on what is comfortable. I don't feel like I sacrifice much not owning a car, but others might not enjoy biking or walking in the elements which can be pretty extreme here. I also live less than two miles from work and my favorite hang out spots, and only about two miles from the climbing gym that I frequent multiple times a week.

1. Were you born and raised in the OKC metro area and have you lived the majority of your life here?
Not born here, but moved here after high school and have lived here ever since, so the majority of my life.


2. Do you have a majority contingent of close friends and family who live more than 10 miles from the Santa Fe Intermodal Hub?
Yes


3. Are you married?
No


4. Do you have kids?
Yes, but they're grown


5. What are your average annual expenditures for ride-sharing, bike/scooter programs, and train tickets/rental cars (which I would assume you'd use if you wanted to take a non-flight trip to something like Turner Falls)?
A bus pass is $50/mo, but I have an annual pass ($600 value) I got for free for this year and I bought one for half price for next year ($300).

I've spend about $500 on Uber/Lyft/Scooters in 2019, but at least a third of that was in other cities, on trips, so I would have spent that anyway. A non-trivial portion was airport trips that I would have car shared anyway. The remaining is when bus or bike was simply not an option at the time. At least $80 was calling Uber's for my daughter when she was visiting me.

I've not rented a car locally in some time.


6. What do you think would be the minimum household income to sustain this lifestyle in OKC for 1/2/3+ people?
People who are making much less than me are doing it every day, I see it day in and day out on the bus. I see some of the same people going to work or going shopping or coming home, etc, every day. You make it seem like this life style is more costly, but the reality is it is less costly. I'm not putting $20-40 of gas in my car every one to two weeks. I don't have a 200-600 monthly car payment. I _am_ still paying my $60/mo in car insurance until I decide for sure to get rid of my vehicle once and for all, but that will be gone at some point.



7. Public Transit, Density, and Bikability aside, what are one or two small but significant changes that could be made to OKC to help ease some of the pains associated with a carless existence in OKC?
Sidewalks and lighting for sure. I've done plenty of walking for "last mile" of trips where the bus didn't get me all the way there.