View Full Version : Malaysian Airline Hit By Missile near Russian Border
Dennis Heaton 07-17-2014, 03:37 PM Nope not at all, I just felt it was tacky and childish to use this tragedy as an excuse to slam Obama in some way.
kelroy55...Ya know how it goes on here (sometimes). I always wondered what Alexander Graham Bell's intent was when he invented the phone?
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I know, I know...just strayed a wee bit :ot:
kelroy55 07-17-2014, 03:39 PM kelroy55...Ya know how it goes on here (sometimes). I always wondered what Alexander Graham Bell's intent was when he invented the phone?
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Yeah I do too lol
RadicalModerate 07-17-2014, 03:41 PM They are confirming that it was a SAM but our intelligence, at this point, can't tell which side of the Russian border it came from. Or they aren't saying.
If one pauses, for a just moment, one might realize that all of the scraps of the fabric and left over clutter of our existence, are like sands through the metaphorical hourglass of the lmperfect quilt... of how things are and the way they ought to be. This airplane outrage is just another example of total bullsh!t on behalf of whomever forstered by the lame/mainstream media .
Get over it =)
You have no input whatsoever into righting wrongs (such as this one, if it is) that occurred in the immediate past.
zookeeper 07-17-2014, 03:47 PM If one pauses, for a just moment, one might realize that all of the scraps of the fabric and left over clutter of our existence, are like sands through the metaphorical hourglass of the lmperfect quilt... of how things are and the way they ought to be. This airplane outrage is just another example of total bullsh!t on behalf of whomever forstered by the lame/mainstream media .
Get over it =)
You have no input whatsoever into righting wrongs (such as this one, if it is) that occurred in the immediate past.
I hate to quote Woody Allen at a time like this, but he can be very philosophical. To me, this is basically what you're saying. In the grand scheme of things - you're both right.
"As a filmmaker, I'm not interested in 9/11...it's too small, history overwhelms it. The history of the world is like: He kills me, I kill him, only with different cosmetics and different castings. So in 2001, some fanatics killed some Americans, and now some Americans are killing some Iraqis. And in my childhood, some Nazis killed Jews. And now, some Jewish people and some Palestinians are killing each other. Political questions, if you go back thousands of years, are ephemeral, not important. History is the same thing over and over again."
Nope not at all, I just felt it was tacky and childish to use this tragedy as an excuse to slam Obama in some way.
You win. Your moral superiority is just off the chart. Happy now?
shawnw 07-17-2014, 03:51 PM I'm still waiting for someone to say this wasn't a new Malaysian jet, but rather a fabricated flight used to dispose of the previously "lost"/missing one in order to cover up what really happened to it...
Edgar 07-17-2014, 03:52 PM doubt it's any conspiracy. It'll be some moron that got his hands on a SAM and couldn't wait to play war.
Dennis Heaton 07-17-2014, 03:52 PM How many of you remember this day in history...
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Uncle Slayton 07-17-2014, 03:55 PM And MSNBC, ever in the forefront of cable news, glowing like the metal on the edge of the knife, posts this breaking exclusive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNhcSNduYmI
When you hire anchor babes with stripper names like Krystal Ball, ya get what ya get, and if that's her *real* name, her parents should be in jail for child abuse.
jn1780 07-17-2014, 03:58 PM How many of you remember this day in history...
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It also shares the TWA-800 anniversary who some to this day thinks it was a rogue navy missile. Interesting coincidence when it comes to circumstances involved in the downing of this flight.
shawnw 07-17-2014, 03:58 PM doubt it's any conspiracy. It'll be some moron that got his hands on a SAM and couldn't wait to play war.
oh I know, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm waiting for them to come out with this one...
Uncle Slayton 07-17-2014, 04:07 PM Fox is running some pretty graphic footage of bodies, parts, etc. They're blurred, but pretty easy to pick out. They said some bodies are still strapped into their seats.
silvergrove 07-17-2014, 04:24 PM If this was linked to Russia supplying militants in east Ukraine, how soon will Europe follow with sanctions on Moscow considering that many Europeans were on that flight?
And if such sanctions were to come to Russia, how soon will the drums of war beat for Moscow? Or could we see NATO-sponsored air strikes on militant holdouts in east Ukraine. There is a very good chance escalation will follow.
EDIT:
Actually, just saw this posted online
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/17/mccain-if-plane-shot-down-there-will-be-profound-repercussions/?hpt=hp_t1
So I guess there will be calls for escalation if this was linked.
Swake 07-17-2014, 04:31 PM If this was linked to Russia supplying militants in east Ukraine, how soon will Europe follow with sanctions on Moscow considering that many Europeans were on that flight?
And if such sanctions were to come to Russia, how soon will the drums of war beat for Moscow? Or could we see NATO-sponsored air strikes on militant holdouts in east Ukraine. There is a very good chance escalation will follow.
EDIT:
Actually, just saw this posted online
McCain: ?Profound repercussions? if plane shot down ? CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/17/mccain-if-plane-shot-down-there-will-be-profound-repercussions/?hpt=hp_t1)
So I guess there will be calls for escalation if this was linked.
It also could be Ukrainian military equipment captured when the rebels first overran some of those eastern cities.
Dustin 07-17-2014, 04:36 PM Separatist leader posted this to facebook and then quickly deleted it:
http://i.imgur.com/IMaKN3h.jpg
AN-26 airplane was shot down near Torez, it fell somewhere behind the mine "Progress".
We warned - do not fly in "our sky".
And here is the video proof of another "bird-fall" (bird = slang for an airplane).
Another bird fell behind the spoil tip, residential areas were not affected.
No civilians were harmed.
White Peacock 07-17-2014, 04:41 PM Separatist leader posted this to facebook and then quickly deleted it:
http://i.imgur.com/IMaKN3h.jpg
I came here to post that exact bit of information.
Dustin 07-17-2014, 04:43 PM I love how he says "No civilians were harmed"
Umm... I think 283 were harmed, actually...
silvergrove 07-17-2014, 04:50 PM Also take what you will from this news with a grain of salt.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html
Jersey Boss 07-17-2014, 07:18 PM And MSNBC, ever in the forefront of cable news, glowing like the metal on the edge of the knife, posts this breaking exclusive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNhcSNduYmI
When you hire anchor babes with stripper names like Krystal Ball, ya get what ya get, and if that's her *real* name, her parents should be in jail for child abuse.
The adults are having a discussion as to what could be an act of war and you want to make fun of someones name as your contribution? Grow up.
I think it's okay for us to start calling them Soviets again.
Edit: Oops, didn't read full thread.
Edit again: Oh wait, the separatists are pro-Russian? Soviets it is.
Cocaine 07-17-2014, 08:41 PM Nah dude the separatist are oppressed Russians fighting off Nazi Ukrainian aggression. I saw it on RT so it must be true right.
MadMonk 07-17-2014, 09:59 PM To be fair, so do we:
Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655)
As part of the settlement, the United States agreed to pay US$61.8 million, an average of $213,103 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.
Russia will probably bill the Malaysians for the cost of the missile.
mugofbeer 07-17-2014, 10:15 PM Horrible situation but huge blame on the Malaysian airline flying over a war zone during a time the rebels have shot down Ukranian planes within the last 2 days.
zookeeper 07-17-2014, 10:23 PM The Rush To Judgment. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-wmd-iraq-war_b_2624620.html)
Russia, and/or the rebels, have no reason - whatsoever - for shooting down a Malaysian civilian passenger jet from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. None. But the Ukrainian government and the pro-EU forces have many reasons to stir up trouble to get the U.S., and others, more actively engaged. Have you seen what John McCain has said tonight? (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/plane-ukraine-shot-down-john-mccain-reaction-109050.html)
Rightwing neocons want a war and the social leftists are anti-Anything Putin because of his traditional stand on gays and other things. No matter what, with no evidence on anything, many have different reasons for jumping on the Blame Putin train. The man has sky high approval ratings in his own country, stands up for what he believes in, doesn't mind talking about it, and unlike some leaders, doesn't back down for political reasons time and time again. President Putin is not the devil, no matter what little demons say.
None other than Forbes magazine named President Putin as the most powerful person in the world, knocking Obama from his perch. Domestically or internationally, look up leadership in the dictionary and Vladimir Putin is there. http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22690
None other than Forbes magazine named President Putin as the most powerful person in the world, knocking Obama from his perch.
Dictators tend to be powerful.
zookeeper 07-17-2014, 11:43 PM Dictators tend to be powerful.
He was elected. Several times. Stood down when he couldn't run concurrently and served as Prime Minister under President Medvedev. He ran again under a platform of a massive jobs campaign and investment in the infrastructure and won big. He's not a "dictator." They have a parliamentary form of government. Of course, everything they do the headlines here scream, "PUTIN ORDERS BLAH BLAH BLAH." For many here, there is a (financial) NEED to restore the Cold War.
I've had people ask - "Are you a communist?" That's how clueless most people are. Putin is part of United Russia (http://er.ru/), a centrist political party that condemns communism and its crimes in its mission statement, calls for a return to free religious practice (which has happened in a BIG way), Putin is a Christian. Putin deplored communism and yes, was apparatchik in the KGB, and resigned on the second day of the attempted coup against Gorbachev, which the KGB was actively involved in. "I knew whose side I was on."
Dictator. No way. Strong leader with political skills of a Churchill, Roosevelt, LBJ? Yes.
PennyQuilts 07-18-2014, 07:22 AM The Rush To Judgment. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-wmd-iraq-war_b_2624620.html)
Russia, and/or the rebels, have no reason - whatsoever - for shooting down a Malaysian civilian passenger jet from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. None. But the Ukrainian government and the pro-EU forces have many reasons to stir up trouble to get the U.S., and others, more actively engaged. Have you seen what John McCain has said tonight? (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/plane-ukraine-shot-down-john-mccain-reaction-109050.html)
Rightwing neocons want a war and the social leftists are anti-Anything Putin because of his traditional stand on gays and other things. No matter what, with no evidence on anything, many have different reasons for jumping on the Blame Putin train. The man has sky high approval ratings in his own country, stands up for what he believes in, doesn't mind talking about it, and unlike some leaders, doesn't back down for political reasons time and time again. President Putin is not the devil, no matter what little demons say.
None other than Forbes magazine named President Putin as the most powerful person in the world, knocking Obama from his perch. Domestically or internationally, look up leadership in the dictionary and Vladimir Putin is there. President of Russia (http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22690)
You are labeling groups and assigning motives to them - not helpful. That arms from Russia have been flooding into East Ukraine in recent weeks have been the subject of concern and the driving force behind sanctions. Obama was reportedly on the phone with Putin discussing the problem when this happened (or shortly thereafter - Putin reportedly told him about the disaster). The separatists shot down two other planes, this week. Your suggestion that this is just politically driven animus towards Putin ignores the facts on the ground.
Not yet verified is a recording of two Russians discussing the downing of the jetliner and the dawning realization that it was not a military plane. Most people assume this was a botched operation where the separatists either misidentified this plane or the missile locked onto it when it was shot at a military transport.
That Putin was elected and very popular with the Russian people doesn't mean he isn't a ruthless dictator, in fact. That you think how he came into power and that his popularity is high means he is a good guy begs the question. Know your Russian history? Might want to study up.
PennyQuilts 07-18-2014, 07:35 AM SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO) (http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html)
zookeeper 07-18-2014, 03:44 PM You know, I'm not going to buy into this conspiracy theory - at least not yet. But the Russian government is apparently considering the possibility that President Putin was targeted for assassination. His plane was in the area at almost the same time of the shootdown. Twitter is all over this and asking if it was a CIA or Ukrainian government hit gone bad. What's sad, is these days, nothing would surprise me. Compare the planes:
http://i.imgur.com/e0aZ9Yj.jpg
White Peacock 07-18-2014, 04:55 PM You know, I'm not going to buy into this conspiracy theory - at least not yet. But the Russian government is apparently considering the possibility that President Putin was targeted for assassination. His plane was in the area at almost the same time of the shootdown. Twitter is all over this and asking if it was a CIA or Ukrainian government hit gone bad. What's sad, is these days, nothing would surprise me. Compare the planes:
http://i.imgur.com/e0aZ9Yj.jpg
Just ignore the aforementioned social media post announcing the successful takedown of a Ukrainian AN-26; not at all suspicious that it would be posted, then quickly deleted once the parties on the ground had the opportunity to investigate the wreckage. I'm sure that was a joint Ukraine Nazi/CIA hack as part of the false flag we've been looking for to take Putin down a peg.
zookeeper 07-18-2014, 04:58 PM I think my point is that these days - who the hell knows?
BBatesokc 07-18-2014, 05:18 PM The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that the missile was the work of pro-Russian separatists. I'm personally fully confident that in the following days there will be specific and damning evidence to prove what most already know - separatist/Russian responsibility.
zookeeper 07-18-2014, 05:58 PM The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that the missile was the work of pro-Russian separatists. I'm personally fully confident that in the following days there will be specific and damning evidence to prove what most already know - separatist/Russian responsibility.
And the motive is? There's not one for them. There is for the Ukrainian government as they desperately want more involvement from the U.S.... I see smoke and mirrors.
Don't trust U.S. media outlets either. These are the same networks that fail to report things of major significance all the time. They also all jumped on the Iraq War train after Colin Powell's U.N. address without any independent investigations. They'll jump on the anti-Putin train just as easily, and people will blindly follow their "reporting" or "circumstantial evidence" (selectively choosing the "evidence.")
White Peacock 07-18-2014, 06:48 PM And the motive is? There's not one for them. There is for the Ukrainian government as they desperately want more involvement from the U.S.... I see smoke and mirrors.
Don't trust U.S. media outlets either. These are the same networks that fail to report things of major significance all the time. They also all jumped on the Iraq War train after Colin Powell's U.N. address without any independent investigations. They'll jump on the anti-Putin train just as easily, and people will blindly follow their "reporting" or "circumstantial evidence" (selectively choosing the "evidence.")
I don't think anybody is assigning motive at all; seems pretty evident that the separatists thought they were shooting down yet another Ukrainian craft and screwed up.
And the evidence is pretty damning. It's the equivalent of running over a guy, stopping to take a picture of him under your tires, then posting it online with a caption "totally just killed a guy LOL", then deleting the post when you realize you've f*cked up.
They announced that they'd taken the plane down and took credit for it before getting a positive ID on the plane, and thought that if they deleted a post from their account, it would be deleted from the Universe. Luckily loads of people got screenshots before they removed it. I'm not sure why you get so defensive whenever Putin or Mother Russia are brought up.
bradh 07-18-2014, 06:56 PM Zookeeper are you Russian? You are awfully defensive in this thread.
Jersey Boss 07-18-2014, 08:37 PM You know, I'm not going to buy into this conspiracy theory - at least not yet. But the Russian government is apparently considering the possibility that President Putin was targeted for assassination. His plane was in the area at almost the same time of the shootdown. Twitter is all over this and asking if it was a CIA or Ukrainian government hit gone bad. What's sad, is these days, nothing would surprise me. Compare the planes:
http://i.imgur.com/e0aZ9Yj.jpg
While you make a case by comparing the planes in appearance do you actually think it possible that at 10,000 meters up, those who fired the SAM were sighting in by eyeball and using Kentucky windage? The motivation for the separatists was they thought they targeted a Ukrainian military transport which was quite a bit of motivation. I for one would be surprised if Putin would be so foolish to fly in a war zone. The statement by Putin in fact alluded to responsibility should go to whose territory the plane was over. So even Putin blames the "Peoples Republic of 'Separatists' "
zookeeper 07-18-2014, 09:48 PM While you make a case by comparing the planes in appearance do you actually think it possible that at 10,000 meters up, those who fired the SAM were sighting in by eyeball and using Kentucky windage? The motivation for the separatists was they thought they targeted a Ukrainian military transport which was quite a bit of motivation. I for one would be surprised if Putin would be so foolish to fly in a war zone. The statement by Putin in fact alluded to responsibility should go to whose territory the plane was over. So even Putin blames the "Peoples Republic of 'Separatists' "
I said I didn't believe that, but it was one scenario. These are strange times.
No, Putin blames the Ukranian government (the gangsters in control now). The so-called "separatists" (rebels) are pro-Russian. The government in power is Pro-EU. We're talking which market bloc they want to go with basically. There are also strong ethnic ties being ignored by those who want to force Ukraine into the EU camp.
As for the "People's Republic of 'Separatists'" quip, I'm not sure you understand the current situation. The insinuation is that Russia is like the Old Soviet Union? To the contrary, Russia has a democratic center-right government led by Putin and the United Russia party that believes in a market-based economy and has strongly and vocally opposed the old communist regimes of years past. That's why Gennady Zyugonov and the Communist Party run strong campaigns every election. (CPRF English Version (http://cprf.ru/)) Vladimir Putin has made his views on communism very clear.
zookeeper 07-18-2014, 09:50 PM I don't think anybody is assigning motive at all; seems pretty evident that the separatists thought they were shooting down yet another Ukrainian craft and screwed up.
And the evidence is pretty damning. It's the equivalent of running over a guy, stopping to take a picture of him under your tires, then posting it online with a caption "totally just killed a guy LOL", then deleting the post when you realize you've f*cked up.
They announced that they'd taken the plane down and took credit for it before getting a positive ID on the plane, and thought that if they deleted a post from their account, it would be deleted from the Universe. Luckily loads of people got screenshots before they removed it. I'm not sure why you get so defensive whenever Putin or Mother Russia are brought up.
Quite possible, I'm reading all sides and that's certainly a possibility. I know it wouldn't have happened without the violence taking place, which wouldn't be taking place if the region wasn't de-stabilized by the Pro EU forces that took "control" recently. That's a long story in and of itself. But, you can guess where I stand on that issue.
This is not as simplistic as many here seem to think. It involves south and east Ukraine, the Crimean Peninsula, and a culture and people that go back - literally, a thousand years. Elections are not elections when the U.S. side loses, they're fair if the U.S. interests win.
It's complex. I am not trying to be defensive, I'm trying to offer the other side of this whole story and what led up to the shootdown. There are many scenarios and who knows? Maybe we can definitively know soon. But, I know that the rebels and/or Russian military did not intentionally shoot a passenger jet out of the sky.
zookeeper 07-18-2014, 09:50 PM Zookeeper are you Russian? You are awfully defensive in this thread.
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bradh 07-18-2014, 10:49 PM Zoo, that wasn't meant as a shot at you. I enjoy reading everyone's take on this, it was just a question.
Chadanth 07-18-2014, 11:16 PM Quite possible, I'm reading all sides and that's certainly a possibility. I know it wouldn't have happened without the violence taking place, which wouldn't be taking place if the region wasn't de-stabilized by the Pro EU forces that took "control" recently. That's a long story in and of itself. But, you can guess where I stand on that issue.
This is not as simplistic as many here seem to think. It involves south and east Ukraine, the Crimean Peninsula, and a culture and people that go back - literally, a thousand years. Elections are not elections when the U.S. side loses, they're fair if the U.S. interests win.
It's complex. I am not trying to be defensive, I'm trying to offer the other side of this whole story and what led up to the shootdown. There are many scenarios and who knows? Maybe we can definitively know soon. But, I know that the rebels and/or Russian military did not intentionally shoot a passenger jet out of the sky.
1. I seriously doubt you "know" that.
2. I don't think that anyone intentionally shot at a passenger jet, it's much more likely that they thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian cargo plane.
catch22 07-19-2014, 12:16 AM Please have my friend in your thoughts and prayers. He was the loadcontroller and ramp lead for MH17 that day in Amsterdam. He supervised and coordinated the loading of all of the cargo and baggage, the weight and balance of the airplane, and ultimately was one of the last people on the ground to talk to the flightcrew both in face and later over the headset in the final stages of preparing the flight to be pushed out of the gate for departure.
This is really rough on him, and I'm sure he will be under quite a bit of stress as the investigation continues, as he will be under some intense investigation and questioning as he supervised and signed for the loading of the aircraft and it's contents. This is turning into a highly political situation, and I'm sure the nations under investigation would like to put the blame in part on anyone other than themselves., or would like to ensure nothing of political volatility was loaded and in transport on this flight. I'm sure the emotional weight just from being involved is enough, not to mention the investigation.
PennyQuilts 07-19-2014, 12:23 AM I am sure this is hard on him, poor man. All parties have pretty much determined this was from a missile so he will likely be in the clear. It must still be very difficult.
catch22 07-19-2014, 12:29 AM I am sure this is hard on him, poor man. All parties have pretty much determined this was from a missile so he will likely be in the clear. It must still be very difficult.
I have no doubt he is in the clear. He's a good guy. However, aviation investigations usually end up going through everyone who had any contact with the airplane. He will be under close investigation as well as all other people who were involved.
It really puts things in perspective, just a normal day at the job, a normal sequence of events -- resulting in a chilling end. When I sign a load sheet, or sign for other security related things -- you don't really understand the weight of your signature until something bad happens. As he is now realizing, and so am I.
Plutonic Panda 07-19-2014, 01:08 AM wow.. this is not good
Over 100 HIV Experts And Advocates May Have Been On Board Crashed Malaysian Plane | IFLScience (http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/over-100-hiv-experts-and-advocates-may-have-been-board-crashed-malaysian-plane)
venture 07-19-2014, 01:36 AM This is an actual An-26 which was the supposed target by the conspiracy people...
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/antonov_an26_curl_l2.jpg
Bullbear 07-19-2014, 09:51 AM wow.. this is not good
Over 100 HIV Experts And Advocates May Have Been On Board Crashed Malaysian Plane | IFLScience (http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/over-100-hiv-experts-and-advocates-may-have-been-board-crashed-malaysian-plane)
This is indeed horrible news. however the initial reports where grossly exagerated. there where however I believe 6 researches on the plane but not 100.
PennyQuilts 07-19-2014, 10:31 AM This is indeed horrible news. however the initial reports where grossly exagerated. there where however I believe 6 researches on the plane but not 100.
There were a bunch of aide workers and I wonder if they lumped them in with the aids researchers.
BBatesokc 07-19-2014, 12:00 PM And the motive is? There's not one for them. There is for the Ukrainian government as they desperately want more involvement from the U.S.... I see smoke and mirrors.
Don't trust U.S. media outlets either. These are the same networks that fail to report things of major significance all the time. They also all jumped on the Iraq War train after Colin Powell's U.N. address without any independent investigations. They'll jump on the anti-Putin train just as easily, and people will blindly follow their "reporting" or "circumstantial evidence" (selectively choosing the "evidence.")
My post didn't even approach 'motive' - so I'm not sure why your reply would rely so heavily on motive. But, since you ask, the motive has been spelled out many times. The separatists thought they were shooting down a military transport plane. A theory well supported by the circumstantial evidence.
As for the multiple layers, motives and history of this conflict - not of any particular interest to me - I was simply addressing the question of "who shot the plane down."
Jersey Boss 07-19-2014, 12:01 PM As for the "People's Republic of 'Separatists'" quip, I'm not sure you understand the current situation. The insinuation is that Russia is like the Old Soviet Union?
Actually my reference was to the self proclaimed "Donetsk People's Republic", from which apparently the SAM was launched.
zookeeper 07-27-2014, 11:22 PM Hate to even bring this up again, but the U.S. propaganda campaign being waged through the government and the mainstream media against President Putin is despicable.
Pat Buchanan has hit the nail on the head in several columns and David Stockman (Reagan administration) writes a beautiful op-ed....Hope you'll take a couple of minutes.
My Thoughts on Pat Buchanan's Brilliant and Incisive Take on Washington's Ukrainian Fiasco - by David Stockman
(http://buchanan.org/blog/thoughts-pat-buchanans-brilliant-incisive-take-washingtons-ukrainian-fiasco-6746)
The original column by Pat Buchanan that prompted Stockman's column praising Buchanan's Insight:
Is Putin Worse Than Stalin? by Patrick J. Buchanan (http://buchanan.org/blog/putin-worse-stalin-6741)
Those who profit from war and and support the U.S. backed coup in the Ukraine are looking for anything to re-start the Cold War.
ljbab728 07-28-2014, 12:20 AM I'm thinking that you need to take all of that to the politics thread.
zookeeper 07-28-2014, 12:50 AM I'm thinking that you need to take all of that to the politics thread.
Just me? None of the other posts that are talking about Putin the Monster, etc? With that said, I agree with you, it should be in politics. But, I think it's a bit unfair to single me out in a 113 post thread.
ljbab728 07-28-2014, 09:36 PM Just me? None of the other posts that are talking about Putin the Monster, etc? With that said, I agree with you, it should be in politics. But, I think it's a bit unfair to single me out in a 113 post thread.
It has to start somewhere and your post looks like the best place to start. I'm not the thread police, though. If you want to keep posting about this here, it's up to you.
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