Cox is on 4 square blocks. So take the full Stage Center site (include the south block) times 2. ClayCo proposes up to 5 towers on the full stage center site, so a Cox redevelopment could more than double that depending upon if the 4 square blocks are opened individually (which is my hope).

Everyone, I agree this is very exciting times for Downtown OKC. I know we were upset with the timing, but isn't everyone stocked about the announcements that finally are coming? And if Steve is correct, this is just the 'beginning?'. WoW! OKC is charging ahead which is great for the city and the state! A healthy OKC changes peoples minds and perceptions/image of the state and that is what Oklahoma has needed since the 1960's. Carry that mantle, OKC!

Ditto!


I was wondering what that red thing was!

Can somebody address OkieNate's statement?

Ditto!



Can somebody address OkieNate's statement?

There is a "buck hoist" attached to the outside of Continental's HQ.

Basically an external construction elevator to get materials in and out of the top four floors while they renovate.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clrhoist.jpg

Cox is on 4 square blocks. So take the full Stage Center site (include the south block) times 2. ClayCo proposes up to 5 towers on the full stage center site, so a Cox redevelopment could more than double that depending upon if the 4 square blocks are opened individually (which is my hope).

Everyone, I agree this is very exciting times for Downtown OKC. I know we were upset with the timing, but isn't everyone stocked about the announcements that finally are coming? And if Steve is correct, this is just the 'beginning?'. WoW! OKC is charging ahead which is great for the city and the state! A healthy OKC changes peoples minds and perceptions/image of the state and that is what Oklahoma has needed since the 1960's. Carry that mantle, OKC!

The pace of change and improvement seems to be accelerating. It's rather breathtaking.

That said, some of my energy friends are warning that the super-good days may be winding down a bit with the price of oil sinking so much. Love the cheap gas but it's a bit worrisome.

gas isn't cheap, it's still well over $2.50 a gallon. I think the shift in the oil industry is for domestic/NA production outweighing overseas imports; which actually should be more of a boon for OKC than OPEC siphoning dollars away from OKC based companies. Even if you don't care for him politically, gotta hand it to Obama for the positives to the US Energy industry.

Thanks to Kaynemo we now have a 3-D model of the project which I've dropped into Google Earth:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter2.jpg

Wow. Even one decent-sized tower on the Preftakes block would really tie in the Stage Center site with the rest of the skyline.

These are with with a 23-story building at Main & Hudson:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter4.jpg

This will be great. Really ties the Devon tower down, whereas currently it is sort of floating by itself at the SW edge of CBD.

The five buildings on the west side of downtown will effectively balance out the five tallest buildings that are to the east.

One more:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter5.jpg

I personally wish there was a little more height variation between the 5 new buildings. Ideally, Main and Hudson would be taller, and then just a little variety in the OG&E Center. That's just being picky though, as I'm really looking forward to these additions to our skyline! Going to make a huge difference no matter what heights they end up being.

One more:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter5.jpgThat awesome, but I wish the Main and Hudson were at least 40 stories. That would help balance the height thing out. Really cool though!

I personally wish there was a little more height variation between the 5 new buildings. Ideally, Main and Hudson would be taller, and then just a little variety in the OG&E Center. That's just being picky though, as I'm really looking forward to these additions to our skyline! Going to make a huge difference no matter what heights they end up being.

Though I can't really complain much either, I also wish there was a little more variation. Clayco can't control the main and Hudson tower and probably can't do much to the office towers since OGE is at least somewhat in control of what happens with their new building, but it would be cool if they would shorten one of the residential buildings and add those floors to the other residential tower. I think that would really help balance the skyline a bit more.

Just a minor nitpick, if built as designed this development will be awesome so again, it's difficult to complain.

These are with with a 23-story building at Main & Hudson:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter4.jpg
[/center]

This view, I think, will be the most important view five years from now. Imagine the Convention Center next to the Peake, the CCC torn down and four or more towers built in its place.

One more:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ogecenter5.jpgOutstanding! Thanks, again, KayneMo.

I know/hope that the exteriors will be distinctive enough so as not to appear to be "the projects" since they're somewhat cookie cutter looking as simple mass forms at similar heights, but as some have said, I'd also like the CLR building to bridge the horizontal AND vertical gaps. Again, it's really nitpicking...but there you have it.

Believe me when I say this, I am happy to see these projects. I can't help but be a little disappointed that a little more height isn't included to really balance out a skyline that needs it and to be more of an impact as a high rise. With the 4 buildings, we will end up with approximately 100-106 floors. How great would it be if we had a 16 story and 19 story building and then 2 tall buildings of approximately 35 stories apiece. This would give us a 255, 305, and a couple of 600 foot buildings! Now that would make the skyline look great and add 2 more high rises rather than the tall mid rises we will be getting. You would be able to see those for many miles away and they would be almost as tall as the tallest building in Tulsa just for comparison. This would also give us the same amount of stories for what is planned.

Where's the convention center with hotel? They are also coming,right? Agree,need taller buildings. At least something 35-40 stories and maybe one 30-35 stories to go with a couple 20-25 story buildings. Now that would make downtown pop!

Where's the convention center with hotel? They are also coming,right? Agree,need taller buildings. At least something 35-40 stories and maybe one 30-35 stories to go with a couple 20-25 story buildings. Now that would make downtown pop!

It's amazing how much these 20-25 story buildings do to balance out the skyline though. I love tall buildings just as much as anybody else, but OKC was seriously spoiled by the Devon Tower. Metro areas of only 1.3 million in population don't typically see such grand developments. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the Devon Tower was by far the tallest tower in a city this size in the country. I hope the Main/Hudson tower ends up taller than expected but if it doesn't, this will still double the size of the skyline from certain angles. I think architectural style is just as important if not moreso than height and from what we've seen thus far, this project will deliver.

Metro areas of only 1.3 million in population don't typically see such grand developments. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the Devon Tower was by far the tallest tower in a city this size in the country.

At least until Midland builds its tower: Midland's 58-story tower will become a symbol of oil boom - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/07/11/midlands-58-story-tower-will-become-a.html?page=all)

^
FWIW that project has been dead for some time.

At least until Midland builds its tower: Midland's 58-story tower will become a symbol of oil boom - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/07/11/midlands-58-story-tower-will-become-a.html?page=all)

yeah that project died. I wish they'd build it in OKC

http://assets.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/Energy%20Tower%203.png?v=3

I would like the base to be more pedestrian friendly and less plaza like

It's amazing how much these 20-25 story buildings do to balance out the skyline though. I love tall buildings just as much as anybody else, but OKC was seriously spoiled by the Devon Tower. Metro areas of only 1.3 million in population don't typically see such grand developments. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the Devon Tower was by far the tallest tower in a city this size in the country. I hope the Main/Hudson tower ends up taller than expected but if it doesn't, this will still double the size of the skyline from certain angles. I think architectural style is just as important if not moreso than height and from what we've seen thus far, this project will deliver.

The tallest building in any US city that is smaller than OKC is the Goldman Sachs Tower in Jersey City at 781'. Any other comparable towers are in cities much larger than OKC.

I guess I thought I'd post it...haha
9359

The tallest building in any US city that is smaller than OKC is the Goldman Sachs Tower in Jersey City at 781'. Any other comparable towers are in cities much larger than OKC.

Here's a list I compiled a while ago, it's a list of the top 25 US cities ranked by their tallest building:

1. New York - One World Trade Center, 1,776'
2. Chicago - Willis Tower, 1,450'
3. Atlanta - Bank of America Plaza, 1,023'
4. Los Angeles - US Bank Tower, 1,018'
5. Houston - JPMorgan Chase Tower, 1,002'
6. Philadelphia - Comcast Center, 975'
7. Cleveland - Key Tower, 947'
8. Seattle - Columbia Center, 932'
9. Dallas - Bank of America Plaza, 921'
10. Charlotte - Bank of America Corporate Center, 871'
11. San Francisco - Transamerica Pyramid, 853'
12. Oklahoma City - Devon Energy Center, 844'
13. Pittsburgh - US Steel Tower, 841'
14. Indianapolis - Chase Tower, 830'
15. Minneapolis - IDS Tower, 792'
16. Boston - Hancock Place, 790'
17. Miami - Four Seasons Hotel, 789'
18. Jersey City - Goldman Sachs Tower, 781'
19. Mobile - RSA Battle House Tower, 745'
20. Las Vegas - Fontainebleua Resort, 735'
21. Detroit - Marriott at Renaissance Center, 727'
22. Denver - Republic Plaza, 714'
23. Atlantic City - Revel Resort, 710'
24. New Orleans - One Shell Square, 697'
25. Austin - The Austonian, 683

Atlantic City, Mobile, New Orleans and OKC are the smallest metros on this list, but OKC is the smallest of the top 17!

I deleted several posts that were a bit heated.

Let's please keep things respectful. Thanks.

^
FWIW that project has been dead for some time.


Then in May of 2014, Energy Related Properties confirmed the evolution of the nearly half-a-billion-dollar development plans, saying the Energy Tower project would become the Energy Twin Towers project moving forward.

Discussion on the purchase and sale agreement for the property were tabled during the City Council meeting, on August 26, 2014, with the city giving the developers a deadline of September 30, 2014, to submit a new purchase and sale agreement plan.

But as of Tuesday, the massive downtown development project is now off the table.

UPDATE: Midland Reacts to Developers Cancelation of Downtown Energy Tower Project - Permian Basin 360 (http://www.permianbasin360.com/story/d/story/update-midland-reacts-to-developers-cancelation-of/41537/TIFg3fT9FkyCHNcSdORcpA)

I just got back from spending half a week in the middle of DC, mostly near the convention center plus a little at the zoo, and spent quite a bit of my time there looking at the buildings. My conclusion? Height doesn't really matter once you have a certain amount, what matters is density of the developments. What we have here in the prospective OG&E Energy Center will be wonderful assuming it is built similar enough to what has been proposed, but after what I have just seen I would happily take eight towers at half the height of the proposal instead of the four.

you have to admit that you were also on the east coast in a perfectly planned city that was designed pre-WW1/vehicles, and said city that doesn't have 621 sq miles to cover (if it did, it would NOT be that dense given the height limits). Said city is also the seat of govt and the spots you visited sounds like mostly the tourist/business spots - of course they're going to be nice/world class because (again) said city is perfectly planned to knock the socks off of visitors. venture out of the broken path in 'd.c.' and tell us how you think.

my point is, while I don't disagree with your argument about density I think OKC has density more than covered downtown. What we need is quality development and height. We need critical mass. There is nothing wrong with a few towers above 600 feet to help heighten the skyline AND still have mid-rise and low rise infill. Why do people here in OKC keep talking like it is ONE or the other? why not have all? As an aside: Here in Seattle, most buildings are less than 400 feet but we do have a few (6 or 7) that are higher and THAT is why folks like this skyline; density, height, and topography/elevation. You can have both mass and some height.

OKC has no option right now for 8 half-height buildings, the choice is 4 high-rises (plus 1) so let's be happy with that. You're getting more density, all on one superblock. I am hoping Main Hudson is above 700 feet and that Milhaus will consider 4th/EKG OR the lumberyard for their proposal; with this equation everyone wins (height and density). ... this does not have to be a zero game.

Interesting ... the Clayco website has the project listed with the client name of OGE Energy Corp., not Kestrel.

OGE Energy Corp - Clayco (http://www.claycorp.com/p/27497/oge-energy-corp/)

Interesting ... the Clayco website has the project listed with the client name of OGE Energy Corp., not Kestrel.

OGE Energy Corp - Clayco (http://www.claycorp.com/p/27497/oge-energy-corp/)

Of course, they also spelled Sheridan wrong (Sheraton), so...

OGE, Kestrel Investments and Clayco have selected Robert A.M. Stern Architects to design the office buildings and Clayco’s subsidiary, Forum Studio, to complete the master planning, retail, parking and residential structure design.

They list OGE as the client, probably bc they'll be the occupant. Kestrel is mentioned in the project description.

Interesting ... the Clayco website has the project listed with the client name of OGE Energy Corp., not Kestrel.

OGE Energy Corp - Clayco (http://www.claycorp.com/p/27497/oge-energy-corp/)

Kestrel is mention at the bottom of their description as working with them. This is just the OG&E part not the entire development. Or at least that's how I read it.

Ok, just a little poll here. We are going to be getting 4 mid rise buildings that look beautiful. Would you all rather have four 27 story buildings, three 36 story buildings, or two 54 story buildings on this site? I personally would rather have 3 towers at about 36 stories as it would fulfill both density and height that would balance out and add so much to the skyline. These mid rises will be in the 400 foot range and will not be able to be seen from long distances or add the height that we would like to see. Just by adding 8-10 stories would put the buildings around 600 feet and that would look amazing. For that matter, just by adding 5-6 more stories on a couple of the 4 proposed would at least put them at or above the Cotter Tower which is what I think really should be done. I am sure they could line up a few more tenants in the next few months to make it happen.

Imagine 4 plus towers as tall or taller than the Cotter and the beauty of their design. That's a game changer, mid rises are good for OKC but I think we could raise the scale just a little bit and it would be breath takingly nice and great for the city. Regardless, I am happy with this project. I just want something a little more grand so when visitors come here, businesses want to relocate, they see what is going on and are literally wowed. I think people will be impressed with these towers but not wowed and I think a little bit of that could go a long ways not only short term but long term. Perception is reality to so many people and they may go back and say OKC has really got it going on. I think we need to consider our company headquarters in this place.

I read the OG&E Clayco page and they stated 500,000 sq feet for the building. At 25 floors, that's a 20,000 sq ft foot print.

Ok, just a little poll here. We are going to be getting 4 mid rise buildings that look beautiful. Would you all rather have four 27 story buildings, three 36 story buildings, or two 54 story buildings on this site? I personally would rather have 3 towers at about 36 stories as it would fulfill both density and height that would balance out and add so much to the skyline. These mid rises will be in the 400 foot range and will not be able to be seen from long distances or add the height that we would like to see. Just by adding 8-10 stories would put the buildings around 600 feet and that would look amazing. For that matter, just by adding 5-6 more stories on a couple of the 4 proposed would at least put them at or above the Cotter Tower which is what I think really should be done. I am sure they could line up a few more tenants in the next few months to make it happen.

Imagine 4 plus towers as tall or taller than the Cotter and the beauty of their design. That's a game changer, mid rises are good for OKC but I think we could raise the scale just a little bit and it would be breath takingly nice and great for the city. Regardless, I am happy with this project. I just want something a little more grand so when visitors come here, businesses want to relocate, they see what is going on and are literally wowed. I think people will be impressed with these towers but not wowed and I think a little bit of that could go a long ways not only short term but long term. Perception is reality to so many people and they may go back and say OKC has really got it going on. I think we need to consider our company headquarters in this place.
Given the floor count scenario, I'd like a 20-story building, a 34-story tower, and a 54-story tower.

Ok, just a little poll here. We are going to be getting 4 mid rise buildings that look beautiful. Would you all rather have four 27 story buildings, three 36 story buildings, or two 54 story buildings on this site? I personally would rather have 3 towers at about 36 stories as it would fulfill both density and height that would balance out and add so much to the skyline. These mid rises will be in the 400 foot range and will not be able to be seen from long distances or add the height that we would like to see. Just by adding 8-10 stories would put the buildings around 600 feet and that would look amazing. For that matter, just by adding 5-6 more stories on a couple of the 4 proposed would at least put them at or above the Cotter Tower which is what I think really should be done. I am sure they could line up a few more tenants in the next few months to make it happen.

Imagine 4 plus towers as tall or taller than the Cotter and the beauty of their design. That's a game changer, mid rises are good for OKC but I think we could raise the scale just a little bit and it would be breath takingly nice and great for the city. Regardless, I am happy with this project. I just want something a little more grand so when visitors come here, businesses want to relocate, they see what is going on and are literally wowed. I think people will be impressed with these towers but not wowed and I think a little bit of that could go a long ways not only short term but long term. Perception is reality to so many people and they may go back and say OKC has really got it going on. I think we need to consider our company headquarters in this place.

I'm super happy with what's proposed. These aren't mid-rise. I think anything over 10 floors is technically considered high-rise. They may not be skyscrapes, but we're not getting 8 story apartment buildings either. These are going to be game changers and will really let us know what the OKC market is. If they go fast, we'll see taller proposed going forward.

I might make some people here mad, but I wouldn't mind seeing all of those consolidated to a 100+ story skyscraper.

^^unrealistic

Not the same as mad.

^^unrealistic

Not the same as mad.Well, it would look way out of place anyways. Even the Khalifa Tower looks out of place, but all the tall surrounding buildings help. It is still considerably taller than any other building there.

Given that these buildings will double the size of the skyline from certain angles, I will say I am pretty happy with it as proposed. Now of course I would like to see taller but OKC will still be very lucky if these get built as shown in the renderings. I really think this will be the next big test of the OKC market and taller may be proposed going forward if they are successful.

OKC needs density more than it needs height. As cool as a 70+ story tower would be, this proposal is a grand slam. I'd have been pleased with just one of these towers. Now we are getting four. I cannot put I to words how happy this makes me. Complaining that they are too similar in height is like complaining that Kate Upton's boobs are too perky. Don't be that guy.

OKC needs density more than it needs height. As cool as a 70+ story tower would be, this proposal is a grand slam. I'd have been pleased with just one of these towers. Now we are getting four. I cannot put I to words how happy this makes me. Complaining that they are too similar in height is like complaining that Kate Upton's boobs are too perky. Don't be that guy.Hey man... I love this development! I'm very happy with it and Kate Upton's boobs. No hate here ;P

I'm super happy with what's proposed. These aren't mid-rise. I think anything over 10 floors is technically considered high-rise. They may not be skyscrapes, but we're not getting 8 story apartment buildings either. These are going to be game changers and will really let us know what the OKC market is. If they go fast, we'll see taller proposed going forward.

I was just going to say this. These are highrises, anything over 12-floors is a highrise. Mid-rise is generally 3-floors to 11-floors. Low-rise is less than 3-floors. It is possible that these towers may be taller than 400 feet (particularly the office buildings) and it is very highly possible that the Main Hudson tower(s) will be significantly above 500 feet.


Why do people here keep downplaying anything that isn't above 500 feet? We have several towers u/c in Seattle in the 400 foot range and less, and we're thrilled about it and NOBODY is walking around calling them mid-rises. Just because they're shorter than Devon? Is Kerr-McGee/Sandridge a mid-rise building all of sudden? or Oklahoma tower? Looks like a skyscraper to me and these buildings will be in the same height if not a bit taller, and significantly more modern (meaning larger floors, taller floor-to-ceilings).

As to the original question, I'd rather have four towers because of the size of the site (a superblock). it would be ridiculous to have just two (or even three) towers on a two square block site. We sort of got that with Devon, but at least there are a couple of mid-rises on their campus AND the Colcord Hotel. If it were JUST the sage center square block, then I'd be fine with the two towers.

Wow, back after a year. This proposal is excellent. Love the Deco Echo.

Is there a good chance this will get built?

OKC needs density more than it needs height. As cool as a 70+ story tower would be, this proposal is a grand slam. I'd have been pleased with just one of these towers. Now we are getting four. I cannot put I to words how happy this makes me. Complaining that they are too similar in height is like complaining that Kate Upton's boobs are too perky. Don't be that guy.

This! The OP about needing a few more stories must of been a part of the Choom gang; however REAL business decisions are based on reality and economics, not pie in the sky wishful thinking from common citizens. And last I checked, OKC is HUGELYYYYYYYYY lacking in the density department, who cares about height, we've discussed ad nauseum that tall buildings a dense/bustling city does not make.

Wow, back after a year. This proposal is excellent. Love the Deco Echo.

Is there a good chance this will get built?

Yes

Well, it would look way out of place anyways. Even the Khalifa Tower looks out of place, but all the tall surrounding buildings help. It is still considerably taller than any other building there.

Agreed AND those buildings there are taller than 80% of our buildings here.

Can we please keep the sexism off of the development forums. Please remember OKCTalk is a place for all to learn about projects, and many people do not necessarily care to read how members feel about anyone's body parts. Thank you.

Can we please keep the sexism off of the development forums. Please remember OKCTalk is a place for all to learn about projects, and many people do not necessarily care to read how members feel about anyone's body parts. Thank you.

+1

Can we please keep the sexism off of the development forums. Please remember OKCTalk is a place for all to learn about projects, and many people do not necessarily care to read how members feel about anyone's body parts. Thank you.Are you joking or being for real?

There's always too many comments on things that are irrelevant. Thanks boitorich for pointing that out, I apologize I'm also contributing to yet another off topic post but I love OKCtalk, I'm 19 now and have been a member since I was 13, it's what got me interested in downtown development. I just always hate to open up a thread and see things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Sorry again for adding to what I don't like...it just had to be said

There's always too many comments on things that are irrelevant. Thanks boitorich for pointing that out, I apologize I'm also contributing to yet another off topic post but I love OKCtalk, I'm 19 now and have been a member since I was 13, it's what got me interested in downtown development. I just always hate to open up a thread and see things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Sorry again for adding to what I don't like...it just had to be said

Welcome to the OKCTalk forum skanaly!

Keep in mind that your opinions are valued; please feel free to express your inner feelings. Criticism of posters' opinions are common on this as with any forum. Don't allow it to discourage you from participation. There are times you will have to be thick-skinned and 'consider' the source. We are all individuals as we observe, examine & evaluate from our own perspective.

Good Luck and enjoy your experience.

OKCtalk is honestly one of the most mild places on the entire internet lol. Pete does an amazing job moderating (all of these posts will probably be deleted, and should be), and most of the posters here do a good job not purposefully insulting each other & maintaining a real life persona.

Anyway, back to the towers.

I'm curious about something. Before Devon tower, how many square feet of office space was there downtown? After Devon tower + these towers how much office space will there be? I feel like we would have at least doubled the size of our downtown with the addition of these towers.

What are the odds that perhaps a couple of these towers could be 5-10 stories taller and a couple could be a 5 or so shorter? It would look much better than having 4 same sized buildings. I'd much prefer a couple of 550 foot towers and a couple of 375 than all of them being in the 425-450 range. Do you all think some tenants will come along they will add a few more stories in the end. I think this would be great and the demand is there with the occupancy rate in DT.

What are the odds that perhaps a couple of these towers could be 5-10 stories taller and a couple could be a 5 or so shorter? It would look much better than having 4 same sized buildings. I'd much prefer a couple of 550 foot towers and a couple of 375 than all of them being in the 425-450 range. Do you all think some tenants will come along they will add a few more stories in the end. I think this would be great and the demand is there with the occupancy rate in DT.

I think the proposals are what they are at this point and we can look forward to them actually getting built and transforming the western side of downtown OKC. Most cities of comparable size to OKC would love to have this development.

Recall the forum participation on October 6 when Pete announced that he would release the new images:



I've got the full applications.

Give me a few minutes to get some images up.

We were all excited with anticipation; there were as many as 100 to 150 participants viewing 'Development & Buildings' section of the forum when the images were revealed. It reminded me of the day Devon Energy revealed their iconic skyscraper that changed the face of the skyline.

Devon initially hinted that they would need something the size of the 'Chase' structure. We got news as a 'whale of a building' was unveiled.

OG&E will be an integral part of this proposed project; our market is ready for more quality office space and mixed use developments. Clayco submitted a much better upgrade image over the previous structure. Let's hope they deliver...


From this > https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSjCvI4DXhyrp8O7_is6m-jnXUSoZoXl0_kUai0bDvOSAdXni0Hw To this > http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/9264d1412690086t-og-e-energy-center-stagenew3.jpg

An exciting time to witness our city's transformation.

Exactly. People that want taller need to realize that, especially with these residential buildings, Clayco is taking a major risk in an unproven market. As long as these buildings fill up fast, the next developer will go taller. Let's just hope we get a downtown/midtown grocery option soon.

Exactly. People that want taller need to realize that, especially with these residential buildings, Clayco is taking a major risk in an unproven market. As long as these buildings fill up fast, the next developer will go taller. Let's just hope we get a downtown/midtown grocery option soon.

I agree completely.

I've posted this before but for me, downtown will have arrived when driving to the burbs is no longer necessary for basic necessities. That means a full-service grocery. That will also be when it becomes more practical to consider living in OKC without a car. Right now it can probably be done but not comfortably.

As for Clayco, OKC has needed a developer willing to take risks like this for the longest time. This is what will bring downtown to the next level.

I totally get it with the residential towers. That is why I think I'd prefer to see a couple of 17-22 foot towers for those and 32-35 towers for the office buildings. I think the demand is so over and beyond for OG&E to build extra. This would allow them future growth or lease out to whom ever they want to fill a few floors and make money from them. Two taller commerical and slightly scaled back residential would test the market for future growth, perhaps even the Bricktown Towers.

I personally think the best thing is two 34 foot towers for commerical that would come close to 600 feet tall, and a couple 18-20 foot residential towers. Those would be a of good height of around 300 feet and also provide density. It would be by far the best test for residential housing DT and could open up a huge BT Towers if successful.