http://www.usgwarchives.net/ok/garfield/postcards/bwytow.jpg

One of the phrases that has always stuck with me as a composer is "Good composers borrow. Great composers steal."

OG&E isn't spending the money. They are leasing not building the building....a prudent move to let developers do what they do best.

As far as your previous statements, sorry but a few posters on our site isn't what makes Clayco do what they do. I LOVE OKC Talk, but it doesn't drive development at this scale.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I suspect more people were disappointed with that earlier concept (and voiced opinion) than just those of us on OKCTalk. That is why I claimed that OKC has truly changed in that not just the 'small' minority speaks up regarding development.

2017 will be a game-changing year for OKC...with these new towers built, the first phase of the streetcar completed, and a myriad of other downtown improvements in the works. Increased connectivity and density will create a real urban environment downtown.
I agree. So in a year or two, we will have the street car under construction, four towers, Preftakes maybe(or being demoed), Central Park, White Water Facility, Steelyard, Downtown BLVD. . . am I missing anything?

These will be incredible shots for OKC during playoffs to showcase our transformation.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I suspect more people were disappointed with that earlier concept (and voiced opinion) than just those of us on OKCTalk. That is why I claimed that OKC has truly changed in that not just the 'small' minority speaks up regarding development.

When city leaders talked about becoming a "big league city", they were talking about us showing up on big developers and business radar. We have had very good press because of three main things....MAPS, the energy sector (gas), and the Thunder....all happening when the rest of the country was in the toilet. Our local developers have been pioneers to a big degree, but I think you are about to see the big guys get engaged. And they don't do that from message boards. They do that from board rooms.

Don't get me wrong, all voices are important and they indicate a willing market, but these deals aren't done by checking message boards to appease a few people.

I agree. So in a year or two, we will have the street car under construction, four towers, Preftakes maybe(or being demoed), Central Park, White Water Facility, Steelyard, Downtown BLVD. . . am I missing anything?

These will be incredible shots for OKC during playoffs to showcase our transformation.
Convention Center will also be underway, and more than likely a convention center hotel.

Convention Center will also be underway, and more than likely a convention center hotel.Yes and our airport should be undergoing an expansion, right? That won't help playoff shots, but for people flying in for the game or other events downtown, it will still add to excitement of all the construction going on.

2017 will be a game-changing year for OKC...with these new towers built, the first phase of the streetcar completed, and a myriad of other downtown improvements in the works. Increased connectivity and density will create a real urban environment downtown.

So true, krisb:

There's more to come... Let's not forget the convention center hotel development which we could hear something soon.

There could be an avalanche of development that follows once construction begins.

I agree. So in a year or two, we will have the street car under construction, four towers, Preftakes maybe(or being demoed), Central Park, White Water Facility, Steelyard, Downtown BLVD. . . am I missing anything?

These will be incredible shots for OKC during playoffs to showcase our transformation.

You're missing quite a few things there…but that's okay…you got pretty much all the big stuff except for the Convention Center as Urbanized had mentioned.

When city leaders talked about becoming a "big league city", they were talking about us showing up on big developers and business radar. We have had very good press because of three main things....MAPS, the energy sector (gas), and the Thunder....all happening when the rest of the country was in the toilet. Our local developers have been pioneers to a big degree, but I think you are about to see the big guys get engaged. And they don't do that from message boards. They do that from board rooms.

Don't get me wrong, all voices are important and they indicate a willing market, but these deals aren't done by checking message boards to appease a few people.

^^^ Exactly^^^

Also, while we've envisioned the possibility of 3 towers going up at once (BOA drive thru, Main & Hudson, Stage Center) we now have the possibility of at least 5 going up at once, as long as the M&H site comes through.

You're missing quite a few things there…but that's okay…you got pretty much all the big stuff except for the Convention Center as Urbanized had mentioned.True. All of the other developments going on will add up to the picture. I was thinking mainly of the big stuff though that will be seen on shots of the city during playoffs and such.

You're missing quite a few things there…but that's okay…you got pretty much all the big stuff except for the Convention Center as Urbanized had mentioned.

LIFT and Metropolitan are pretty big too.

I am by no means an expert in architecture but my first impression was this is amazing. These towers seem to have a timeless sort of quality to them. Maybe it is the backlighting in the renderings, like they came from heaven or something (lol).

I agree. So in a year or two, we will have the street car under construction, four towers, Preftakes maybe(or being demoed), Central Park, White Water Facility, Steelyard, Downtown BLVD. . . am I missing anything?

These will be incredible shots for OKC during playoffs to showcase our transformation.

That was one of my thoughts too. To have all the cranes going during the cutaways will be great great optics for the city.

This is the cross-section for the OG&E tower. It looks like it is slightly taller (just over 400 feet) and note that OG&E is only occupying the top floors:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew17.jpg

Makes you think the guys at 21C maybe had an inkling of what is happening in west downtown, doesn't it? Remember everyone scratching their heads as to why they chose where they did? Guess they weren't alone in thinking there is great development pressure there.

No not really, Film Row is well developed, Classen is also making a comeback. Hotel demand is way up, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that property would make a huge payoff just 3 blocks away from Devon, especially considering no hotels exist on the west side of downtown, but could easily support one.

Looks like my 25 story 400 ft prediction was very close. :)

About 250 units per tower... So 500 units. Add in couples and roommates and there could very well be 800-850+ people living on these two blocks.

Here's how the tallest downtown buildings would stack up:

Devon 844'
Chase 500'
First National 493'
City Place 440'
OK Tower 434'
OG&E Tower 405'
South Parcel Tower 395'
SandRidge 393'
North Parcel Residential ~380'
South Parcel Residential ~380'
B of OK Tower 310'

Steve's update.

Residential towers proposed by two firms for property south of former Stage Center site | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5349013)

On edit, I didn't know that this had been posted previously. Good news is always worth repeating though. :)

Steve's article says $530 million total cost.

Steve's article says $530 million total cost.

Wow - spectacular news for Oklahoma City.

Half a billion dollars of investment downtown, with 2 high-rise residential buildings…I can think of 900 people that this development can tap into to recoup some of that investment :wink:

Think of where this city was in 2000…Think of where it will be in just one quarter century from that point.

Question number two, "does this proposal justify the destruction?" I would answer no to. The main reason being that we have so much open space downtown that a similar development could have taken place without laying a finger on SC. It just made for a convenient excuse to tear it down. But that is now water under the bridge, so I don't think that being bummed about SC dictates not being excited about this.

Interestingly, you could fit the towers on those two lots and there'd still be room for SC. It's the parking garages that are swallowing up a good portion of the land. But I think your point is what's missed a lot: Most SC advocates simply wished SC and OKC were strong enough to have both the theater AND a development like this, which given our current land use, was possible had SC not gotten in trouble. The demolition of SC was always about the value the community placed on it and its purpose, not because there was some dire need for land to develop in the core.

Honestly, this is really great!

Imagine just the tower prospective: these 4 towers from Clayco, at least 1 more tower from Pickard Chilton at M&H, the Convention Center hotel(s), FNC redevelopment/Park Place, the possible BoA tower of some sort, the 4th & EKG tower possibility, Continental's eventual tower (2nd tallest in Oklahoma perhaps?), more spec office/residential/hotel to come. ....

Not to mention the infill projects: the Met, Steelyard + Hyatt Place, DD and AA infill, Bricktown upper floors, possible Bricktown Marriott Hotel, Midtown expansion, West Downtown infill, and we haven't even scratched the surface on what C2S could be.

Very exciting times for OKC.

I wonder what the floor height will be for the office vs. residential towers.

What if office is 18 feet and residential is 15 feet?

Looks like 16' floors for OG&E.

nm

New towers are nice, and all, but has anyone asked KD if he approves and will re-sign with the Thunder in 2016?
:)

Seriously, though, this represents another step in OKC becoming just a little bit more of a destination for free agents.

...and, here goes; "let's" combine south and north business towers into one 600-700' tower, so some employees can also enjoy "Central Park".

Here's a neat observation, via Short Order Poems on Twitter (https://twitter.com/ShortOrderPoems/status/519203745532760064):


@stevelackmeyer I detect some design nods to the old Biltmore Hotel in Clayco's new renderings. Very cool.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzSVDglCQAAjDB6.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew3.jpg

It's not a perfect match, but I can definitely see some similarities in the step-backs at the top.

Seriously, though, this represents another step in OKC becoming just a little bit more of a destination for free agents.

Nope.

I've already told my wife to prepare for a move downtown in 2016....seriously.

Looking forward to the 3d rendering angles to give a real appreciation of the impact to the skyline.

The renderings are really impressive. I agree with some of the earlier comments regarding out of state developers. It looks like we may have finally popped the bubble of amateur hour and "real" money in terms of developers and their capital.

Kinda thrilled that our streetcar route is on Hudson in that segment. It will help connect this urban massing to Auto Alley and broader Midtown in a very direct way. The system can also be later shifted to a two-line design if downtown reaches true critical mass. Hudson would obviously continue to be key in such a concept.

never mind. I was commenting on an earlier post before getting to the answer on a later post.

The designs are ok, was hoping on something little bit more modern, but its different. The residential towers can use a little bit more detail, and hopefully some nice crown lighting will accompany the office towers. But overall, good project, even if only the Stage Center site is developed, good deal.

Somewhat lost in all of this is the fact that Milhaus is looking to make another huge investment in OKC.

Perhaps they can move their proposal to Land Run's property at 4th & EKG or elsewhere.

Very good sign that they have just broken ground on LIFT and are already pitching a 20-story residential tower.

Isn't the Sandridge 393 feet?

Post # 317 says it is.

Something like this will also likely give much more emphasis to national retailers like CVS to reconsider downtown in the next few years.

Isn't the Sandridge 393 feet?

yes, but one must really remember that Sandridge sits on a hill. And the Stage Center area is in one of the lowest parts of downtown. So, Sandridge will probably sit taller in the skyline, despite their physical dimensions being similar.

The renderings are really impressive. I agree with some of the earlier comments regarding out of state developers. It looks like we may have finally popped the bubble of amateur hour and "real" money in terms of developers and their capital.

No doubt we've seen a big corner turned in terms of out-of-state development and investment:

Metropolitan: Bomasada
LIFT: Milhaus
This proposal: Milhaus
OG&E Parcel: Clayco
South Parcel: Clayco
First National Center: Alterra and others


All of this just in the last year.

Something like this will also likely give much more emphasis to national retailers like CVS to reconsider downtown in the next few years.

Agreed. CVS likely didn't even consider the already announced residential such as the Metropolitan and Edge when they killed the deal because it didn't pass the spreadsheet test. Maybe a CVS can go into the ground floor of one of these towers.

This should all be under construction in the very near future and all at the same time:

These four towers
Convention Center
Convention Hotel
Main & Hudson Tower
First National Center

And perhaps, something at 4th & EKG, too.

I was just thinking the same thing. Any sort of grocery or store of that kind would be perfect imo. And it will be a prime location for if and when housing goes up on the sides of the new city park. This whole project is a game changer for the west side of downtown and hopefully will only set the precedent new housing as it builds to the south.

An urban Target/similar in the ground level of this new development might not be out of the question.

I was just thinking the same thing. Any sort of grocery or store of that kind would be perfect imo. And it will be a prime location for if and when housing goes up on the sides of the new city park. This whole project is a game changer for the west side of downtown and hopefully will only set the precedent new housing as it builds to the south.

The density and number of workers and residents will really help fill in the gaps between this block and 21c and Film Row.

Steve suggested an urban Hobby Lobby which I think would be interesting.

The density and number of workers and residents will really help fill in the gaps between this block and 21c and Film Row.

The population density on just these two blocks (assuming families, couples, and roommates bring the count close to 850) will be pretty close to the average density of a square mile of some of the outlying suburban area. Isn't our average density somewhere just above 1,000 per sq. mile?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew4.jpg


Is any of this connected with the Populous plan? OG&E Tower - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=OG%20E%20Tower&page=68#post826086)

I think the school being right there and it being brand new really helps with this residential growth as well. I have college friends in Denver who live in residential towers downtown and take the trains to school every day and i think that its a fantastic way to have housing in the core but allow students to travel any which direction for schools.I think this is something that could be in our future and it would help grow both the population downtown and the daily ridership of the mass transit with the streetcar and possible future I35 train coridor to go to OU or UCO, heck even Rose state along I40.

If anyone wants to put the proposed towers, BOK tower or a 4th & E.K. Gaylord tower in this image, feel free.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9322497/Photos/skylineaerial2.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9322497/Photos/skylineaerial2.jpg

Yes, John Rex Elementary is about to be overrun.

I wonder if there was any consideration to expansion? They are using less than half that block.

These towers, office and residential, are both a 'set of twins'. I can imagine the architectural savings by having the residential and the offices being basically the same structure. Great move in cost and time.

Steve is doing a special live chat today at 7pm discussing the towers. I forgot to mention this earlier when we had lunch.

Steve suggested an urban Hobby Lobby which I think would be interesting.

Please no..lol.. I think CVS and grocery are far more important than glitter and felt in the core

The population density on just these two blocks (assuming families, couples, and roommates bring the count close to 850) will be pretty close to the average density of a square mile of some of the outlying suburban area. Isn't our average density somewhere just above 1,000 per sq. mile?

These two blocks are roughly .09 mi x .14 mi which is an area of .0126 sq mi.
~850 residents in .0126 sq miles = a population density of over 67,000/sq mi.

Hey KaneMo,

Any possible way you can do some professional pictures for us ? Thanks

Imagine something like this in Singapore on that site instead... pretty cool looking.

Reflections at Keppel Bay - Architizer (http://architizer.com/projects/reflections-at-keppel-bay/)

http://acdn.architizer.com/thumbnails-PRODUCTION/cb/37/cb37e89720799d362038976ad0e2c1b4.jpg

Nope.
Yep

YepYeah

Yes, John Rex Elementary is about to be overrun.

I wonder if there was any consideration to expansion? They are using less than half that block.

Encouraged by possibilities of new development; this will get the attention of the OKCPS district. My daughter works as a substitute; she's fascinated with the new John Rex Elementary.

There's a waiting list for many downtown workers (with elementary age level children) who want transfers for their children. The OKCPS usually consider 'in district' transfers as a priority to out-of-district transfers. There are cases where they reciprocate with a border district like Millwood & Putnam City.

Who knows? That could be subject to change. Wouldn't rule out expansion of John Rex Elementary School as a possibility.