So, I guess some people maybe owe Rainey Williams an apology. After all the criticism, hand wringing, negativism, maybe some people actually were trying to do the right thing.

So, the broadness of OKC's skyline could almost double from some angles within 5 years? This is AWESOME!

So, I guess some people maybe owe Rainey Williams an apology. After all the criticism, hand wringing, negativism, maybe some people actually were trying to do the right thing.

To be fair, when a 12 story tower entered the discussion, it's hard to blame people for being disappointed. This looks great, though!

To be fair, when a 12 story tower entered the discussion, it's hard to blame people for being disappointed. This looks great, though!

I agree. This is more like what was originally hyped. The concept released by Rainey Williams last summer was so underwhelming that negativity was understandable. I am extremely impressed by this though and hope Clayco gets the entire thing.

What does the timeline on this look like? For instance, when can we expect construction to begin?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew12.jpg

At that floor count, Clayco's towers would all be around Sandridge height. Not that dramatic in skyline, but the density impact would be immense.

4 buildings going up all around the same time on one large block would be quite the sight. Bring on the cranes!

So, I guess some people maybe owe Rainey Williams an apology. After all the criticism, hand wringing, negativism, maybe some people actually were trying to do the right thing.
You know that won't happen, right?

So, I guess some people maybe owe Rainey Williams an apology. After all the criticism, hand wringing, negativism, maybe some people actually were trying to do the right thing.

They're probably looking through their Brutalism textbooks and weeping now, but I'm sure they'll join the discussion soon.

but the density impact would be immense.

4 buildings going up all around the same time on one large block would be quite the sight. Bring on the cranes!

This!!

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew13.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew14.jpg

To be fair, when a 12 story tower entered the discussion, it's hard to blame people for being disappointed. This looks great, though!

Ah, but people don't understand the process and what goes on behind the scenes. Getting too high or too low before having REAL info is silly. This is a perfect example. You would be amazed at some of the stuff being talked about around here, grand things that won't happen. And then there are some good things I think will kind of come out of the blue.

Time frame (start construction / finish construction):

OG&E Officer Tower: MAR 15 / APR 17
North Residential: APR 15 / JUL 16

South Office Tower: JUL 15 / JUL 17
South Residential: FEB 16 / JUL 17

That a nice aggressive schedule. All four will be going up at the same time.

Ah, but people don't understand the process and what goes on behind the scenes. Getting too high or too low before having REAL info is silly. This is a perfect example. You would be amazed at some of the stuff being talked about around here, grand things that won't happen. And then there are some good things I think will kind of come out of the blue.

We also don't have any idea what role Rainey Williams played in all this.

Ah, but people don't understand the process and what goes on behind the scenes. Getting too high or too low before having REAL info is silly. This is a perfect example. You would be amazed at some of the stuff being talked about around here, grand things that won't happen. And then there are some good things I think will kind of come out of the blue.

1000x this.

They're probably looking through their Brutalism textbooks and weeping now, but I'm sure they'll join the discussion soon.

So, would we all agree that if this indeed comes to pass as shown that it is a better and higher use for the site than the old SC? Does this proposal justify the destruction? Serious question.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew15.jpg

Again with models shown on NW corner of Sheridan and Hudson. Very intriguing.

I love this and can't wait to watch this go up. But all this for just 80 million?

That is a pretty good size building there on Sheridan/Hudson....

Does the OG&E building take up the whole segment in yellow in the overview above and do the other buildings take up the red/pink area? How about the blue zone and attorney building at the bottom of the view? Also who determine which proposal wins out between Clayco or Milhaus?

That a nice aggressive schedule. All four will be going up at the same time.

Aggressive, yes!

Maybe we should say spring of 2018 to play it safe. We all know how construction goes in OKC.

Maybe I missed it, but where does the $80 million figure come from? No way all of this is built for $80 million. I'd bet the whole complex would come in closer to $500 million, or even more.

So, would we all agree that if this indeed comes to pass as shown that it is a better and higher use for the site than the old SC? Does this proposal justify the destruction? Serious question.

Oh hell yes it's better.....hands down. Think of the impact.

A 500'footer & a 300'ft tower @ Main & Hudson? Looks like the mystery tower thread is about to explode.

Maybe I missed it, but where does the $80 million figure come from? No way all of this is built for $80 million. I'd bet the whole complex would come in closer to $500 million, or even more.

Just guessing that is probably the OGE HQ only.

We also don't have any idea what role Rainey Williams played in all this.

Yes we do...he was the whipping boy.

Maybe I missed it, but where does the $80 million figure come from? No way all of this is built for $80 million. I'd bet the whole complex would come in closer to $500 million, or even more.

Milhaus RFP is valued at $80MM.

Clayco is roughly $250MM for each block.

4 towers to the west of Devon will really help balance the skyline. Add a tall convention hotel out front and it would be awesome!

So, would we all agree that if this indeed comes to pass as shown that it is a better and higher use for the site than the old SC? Does this proposal justify the destruction? Serious question.

I would agree, 100%, that it does.

These are from the Milhaus proposal... Remember, they only had 60 days to respond to the RFP where Clayco had been working on this well before:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/milhaus1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/milhaus2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/milhaus3.jpg

Makes you think the guys at 21C maybe had an inkling of what is happening in west downtown, doesn't it? Remember everyone scratching their heads as to why they chose where they did? Guess they weren't alone in thinking there is great development pressure there.

Think about the gem that Myriad Gardens is about to become over the next 5-10 years. This, Devon, CC, CC Hotel, and a redeveloped Cox site that should attract something at least equally as impressive. Imagine coming out of a Thunder game to THAT view. WOW.

Makes you think the guys at 21C maybe had an inkling of what is happening in west downtown, doesn't it? Remember everyone scratching their heads as to why they chose where they did? Guess they weren't alone in thinking there is great development pressure there.

Good point. Almost forgot about those guys.

Between this, 21C, the Main & and Hudson Tower, and the various housing projects about to come online, you can definitely see DT is growing west. This is about to be a hot little corner.

Think about the gem that Myriad Gardens is about to become over the next 5-10 years. This, Devon, CC, CC Hotel, and a redeveloped Cox site that should attract something at least equally as impressive. Imagine coming out of a Thunder game to THAT view. WOW.

The Myriad Gardens has the potential to be the real central park of OKC with this development and then eventual private development of the CCC block.

Very interesting to me that Clayco proposal shows major redevelopment on the entire Preftakes block.

They went out of their way to show new buildings on that block, and it even shows the proposed Main/Hudson building at about the same scale (20-25 floors) that we've been hearing.

On the other hand, it also shows the old bus station completely gone and I don't think there is any chance of that happening:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew6.jpg

And lest we think this just raised the price on the CC site too much, think about what it did for the value of the current Cox site. This and a CC Hotel will make the Cox site the most valuable development site in the history of this city....by far. We should want the construction on the new CC to start as soon as possible so we can make the east side of the garden as exciting as the west will be.

So, would we all agree that if this indeed comes to pass as shown that it is a better and higher use for the site than the old SC? Does this proposal justify the destruction? Serious question.

I doubt if WE all agree, but the vast majority will think this is a better use for the site. I wonder who will be the first to lament the passing of SC for this development.

Pete, I hope you don't mind, I posted two pictures you posted about this development. I created a new thread for it on CityData and will be the same on SkyscraperPage. If you want, I'll take them down, I only posted two. This is incredibly exciting and I'm glad to see the possible density our skyline will have once this, Preftakes, Convention Hotel, and the Cox Block(yeah I said it) is developed!

Four New Skyscrapers coming to the Stage Center site - Oklahoma City - Oklahoma (OK) - City-Data Forum (http://www.city-data.com/forum/oklahoma-city/2215569-four-new-skyscrapers-coming-stage-center.html)

This development and inclusion of a large amount of residential will only encourage the spur of development west and south on the adjacent blocks between Sheridan and Reno along Walker.

Good point. Almost forgot about those guys.

Between this, 21C, the Main & and Hudson Tower, and the various housing projects about to come online, you can definitely see DT is growing west. This is about to be a hot little corner.

So this makes the boulevard decision even more important.

But I think it is good for people to have natural, organic reaction to that earlier concept. It is the same thing that happens at auto shows, where concepts come out and the automakers take note.

If we did the typical okie-dokie and held back commentary then we might end up getting something underwhelming and outright ridiculous. However, I think with the appropriate outcry that took place it encouraged RW to seek something better from Clayco and they upped their game, particularly with the availability of the entire block since lots more $$ could be made. This is significantly better than the concept, which they could have came out with originally (like happens in other cities), but again - that in my mind was to gauge whether OKC was truly ready for a big time proposal or if OKC would continue to accept mediocrity for the sake of 'getting something, better than nothing.'

Times are changing for OKC and that is probably the best news of all!

One more thing, the dollars here are significantly more than $100M yet I don't hear anybody crying about OGE Energy wasting ratepayer dollars. :)

One more argument that it is best to develop the entire block to make the dollars (and cents) work.

The Myriad Gardens has the potential to be the real central park of OKC with this development and then eventual private development of the CCC block.

Only if you are looking 5-10 yrs in advance. Give the Central Park time and it has a chance to be awesome. By its very size alone, it has opportunities that the MBG cannot hope to have. That being said, MGB is a jewel, just a small jewel.

So, would we all agree that if this indeed comes to pass as shown that it is a better and higher use for the site than the old SC? Does this proposal justify the destruction? Serious question.
That's a good question, and probably more complex than a simple "yes" or "no." Question number one, "is it a better and higher use..." I would answer yes to. I was very consistent throughout the whole Stage Center discussion that I grudgingly accepted demolition if there were a higher and better use, though not under any circumstances a spec demolition.

Question number two, "does this proposal justify the destruction?" I would answer no to. The main reason being that we have so much open space downtown that a similar development could have taken place without laying a finger on SC. It just made for a convenient excuse to tear it down. But that is now water under the bridge, so I don't think that being bummed about SC dictates not being excited about this.

And BTW, though I was indeed bummed about SC and felt it should have been retained, I never blamed Rainey Williams, who in many ways was just doing the community's bidding. The more I educated myself about SC the more I understood that - while I'm still steadfast in saying it was a major loss for the city - the windows and methods for saving it were passed up at several critical points over its life, none of which was in the past 2-3 years. It was a dead duck. I also - unlike many here - reserved judgment on this development until seeing more fleshed-out plans. The rush to pile on was pretty typical.

Anyway, like I said, the other building is in the past now, and it's perfectly OK to get excited about this one (or criticize it, if that's your thing). It doesn't seem that this thread is an appropriate place to resurrect that other debate, though that won't stop a few people from trolling the teardown issue, as they have already done.

Milhaus RFP is valued at $80MM.

Clayco is roughly $250MM for each block.

Ha! I hit it on the nose, I guess.

One more thing, the dollars here are significantly more than $100M yet I don't hear anybody crying about OGE Energy wasting ratepayer dollars. :)

One more argument that it is best to develop the entire block to make the dollars (and cents) work.

OG&E isn't spending the money. They are leasing not building the building....a prudent move to let developers do what they do best.

As far as your previous statements, sorry but a few posters on our site isn't what makes Clayco do what they do. I LOVE OKC Talk, but it doesn't drive development at this scale.

Think about the gem that Myriad Gardens is about to become over the next 5-10 years. This, Devon, CC, CC Hotel, and a redeveloped Cox site that should attract something at least equally as impressive. Imagine coming out of a Thunder game to THAT view. WOW.

Not to mention the aerial shots on TNT/ESPN during the Playoffs!

Any chance the other office could be for Continental ?

I have to say this Clayco proposal is pretty amazing; very impressed:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew16.jpg

Any chance the other office could be for Continental ?

They will probably need much more space than that. Unless they want to have the HQ split between the current building and a future one (doubtful).

Well this is just hideous an obtrusive to say the least. I'm not impressed at all. Bring Stage Center back LOL!

That a nice aggressive schedule. All four will be going up at the same time.

It will only take 15 months to build the residential towers(staggered to open a year apart), and 24- 25 for the office towers.

And lest we think this just raised the price on the CC site too much, think about what it did for the value of the current Cox site. This and a CC Hotel will make the Cox site the most valuable development site in the history of this city....by far. We should want the construction on the new CC to start as soon as possible so we can make the east side of the garden as exciting as the west will be.

It was going to be this way regardless of the outcome of this site. The nice thing about this proposal is that it gives us somewhat of a foundation for how to address that block.

I really want to see a western angle. It will be the only angle from which you can see all 4 buildings with great visibility. Really glad that we got 4 towers on this site and I'm not at all concerned about the height. This helps bring density not only to street-level, but in the skyline as well, and the SW portion of the skyline is where I figured we'd start losing lots of density.

.

Magnificent, Magnífica, Magnifique, Magnifico . . .

.

I have to say this Clayco proposal is pretty amazing; very impressed:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagenew16.jpg

http://www.usgwarchives.net/ok/garfield/postcards/bwytow.jpg

One more thing, the dollars here are significantly more than $100M yet I don't hear anybody crying about OGE Energy wasting ratepayer dollars. :)

Just read the newsok comments. I'm sure they will be in there...

2017 will be a game-changing year for OKC...with these new towers built, the first phase of the streetcar completed, and a myriad of other downtown improvements in the works. Increased connectivity and density will create a real urban environment downtown.

These buildings remind me of some Microsoft buildings I worked on in downtown Bellevue.... 9245 In particular, the one on the left. It was a similar campus with offices and residential towers. Has a great shopping area at the base. This actually might be a little bigger than that block development.

2017 will be a game-changing year for OKC...with these new towers built, the first phase of the streetcar completed, and a myriad of other downtown improvements in the works. Increased connectivity and density will create a real urban environment downtown.

Agreed 100%