Nm

I don't think the $30 million was just to make electrical repairs, if that's what you mean by power back on. There was actually a lower number for a full rehabilitation, but with lower build-out. If you think a children's museum would have cost more, feel free to cite any relevant sources.

Honestly, this has to be the most worthless topic in the history of OKCTalk. I am just going to bow out at this point. If you want to continue to talk about a hypothetical museum in a building that no longer exist then knock yourself out.

No. $30 million for a full build-out, with no phasing, and nothing half-assed.

Negotiations over Oklahoma City's Stage Center stall | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3674303)

“While we were pleased that they saw enough value in our effort to offer this, their timeline simply didn't match ours,” Zeeck said. “As anyone could guess, a fundraising effort of this magnitude, an estimated $30 million to fully complete the project and open the museum to visitors, requires a much greater time commitment than just a few months.”

Kerry - your continued insistence that $30 million "was just to turn the lights on" is getting pretty disingenuous. You need to realize when you're wrong and just let it go. I'm no example, but I am wrong all the time, if it helps. :)

I'm with Kerry about re-living the whole Stage Center debacle. It's gone - forever. Some of us lament that, but it is what it is.

Spartan, theatre in-the-round is still going strong at the Jewel Box.

City Rep does some in the round too.

City Rep does some in the round too.

It's not really in the round. They use the City Space Theater in the Civic Center for some productions, like the Oklahoma City Theater Company. I've been there for many productions. The seating is on 3 sides of the stage.

They weren't all In The Round either. The larger room was Thrust. It was actually one of the better designs for intimate theater (think Burge at OCU). You can still see a small layout at johnmjohansen.com (http://johnmjohansen.com/Mummers-Theater_files/MUMMERS%20planweb-filtered.jpg). Thrust works really well if you want to be able to have the audience engaged with the performers. Here's (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/49/bf/b9/49bfb96fc4d1fc3ea51907603a641c71.jpg) a shot of a show there WAY back when. Except they killed the Thrust idea by walling off the audience with more concrete. Contrast that with the lack of any wall at all at OCU (https://sjamaanka.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/peter-panorama-jpg.jpg). Sorry, it's a bit difficult to get pictures in the place. I can't get you an audience view, but right off the stage, is the first row of seating, which wraps around the whole "half" stage, with two "tunnels" for actors in enter/exit with. This, for an example, is City Rep performing at Burge at OCU.

I'll just say this. Regardless of our views on the architecture of the place from the outside, that did NOT keep people from coming to the facility. If the performances in the facility had been a big draw, we would have continued to visit the facility and give money through our ticket purchases/donations. The failure of the place, from a financial standpoint, has more to do with the products being presented inside and the cost overruns the facility caused just to maintain it. Those same organizations (in their new forms) do much better in lease agreements with existing facilities. Just because it was from New York, isn't what killed it. If we had problems with a New York view, why would the people of Oklahoma be so in love with the BOK Tower/Williams Center in Tulsa? It's hard to ignore that the architected copied his own work from the World Trade Center for that one. And he didn't hide that fact either. The architect obviously was trying to make a brutalist statement rather than try to meld. Fine, I'm not opposed to that. He just failed with this one. Is it so wrong to say that an architect failed? I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that....they're humans.....it happens.

I think there was a question in there. Yes. BOK is great architecture. It's a 2/3 replica of the WTC designed by Minoru Yamasaki. All of the ranting against Stage Center is rationalization for our irrational hatred of Stage Center. We demo'd it bc we were giddy over a new oil tower. I'm not trying to reopen the wound to collect my told you so, but rather make sure we all realize how stupid that was and don't do it again.

We will have plenty of future opportunities for new oil towers once dirt water is worth >$50. Let's not tear down anything we can't replace, and choose carefully bc the music will start and stop again. OKC, as this weird embodiment of some dirt metropolis from Star Wars, is so proud of its construction sites that we have next to zero construction mitigation (standard elsewhere). Sidewalks are blocked off, Lake Rainey breeding Mosquitos, roads closed for years on end, dirt tracks all over downtown, etc. Now watch as it takes the next oil boom until we clean it all up again, and then we'll tear it all down and rebuild it again.

We aren't working off of MAPS. We are still just coasting from oil boom to bust and waiting it out for the next boom. We don't actually have a strategy that involves livability, which sucks for those of us that have to live here, which our people are really our greatest asset. The state's lost nearly 12,000 energy jobs in the last half year. These people will leave us if their oil job/life is all they have here. At least we have damaging (now 50% bigger!) earthquakes for free entertainment.

We aren't working off of MAPS. We are still just coasting from oil boom to bust and waiting it out for the next boom. We don't actually have a strategy that involves livability, which sucks for those of us that have to live here, which our people are really our greatest asset. The state's lost nearly 12,000 energy jobs in the last half year. These people will leave us if their oil job/life is all they have here. At least we have damaging (now 50% bigger!) earthquakes for free entertainment.

I've heard this said a lot, but to you what would a strategy that involves livability look like other than better efforts to preserve history?

Housing. We need good, decent, competitive housing. Academically, affordable housing is evaluated on two metrics: affordable to what % area median income, and the condition. What for what. OKC always touts one of its biggest weaknesses (our housing is mostly unattractive, with some commensurately overpriced gems mixed in), first and foremost, in promo pieces. With SandRidge, years before the NYSE delisted them, we killed actual housing proposals so they could have the corporate plaza of their dreams. We are so behind the curve on urban housing. I used to be amazed at how at ahead the Eastern Great Lakes are. Then I went to Minneapolis. They have 40,000 downtown residents, up 7,000 from 2006, and planning for 70,000 by 2025. All bc of (probably) the nation's most efficient light rail network. They are the model for urban development.

We are doing better on parks, but it was BAD when MAPS first began. The typical city park was a stick tree, next to a bright plastic jungle gym, with a walking trail around it and the requisite parking lot. We've had starts and stops on canopy programs (we should really try to make NeighborWoods successful) that also help, so I'm not worried about our strategy there. We just need to get back to work on that, like we did before. We also need to memorize our fascinating recent history.

Lastly, we funded a transit program nearly a decade ago. We still aren't very close to using an improved transit system, which is going to take decades of work even after we shake things up with the streetcar's first phase.

So that's what I mean. Historic preservation, and in this case landmark preservation, is certainly up there with those issues.

Well I didn't like Stage Center because it was bad urban design. I didn't like the OG&E plan either because it was also bad urban design. I don't care for 499 either. Anyone care to guess why?

I would rather the site just stay Lake Lackmeyer until someone comes along and proposes something that actually contributes to the area instead of trying to be a stand-alone work of art (preferably with sidewalk dining and residential fronting the park).

Well I didn't like Stage Center because it was bad urban design. I didn't like the OG&E plan either because it was also bad urban design. I don't care for 499 either. Anyone care to guess why?

I would rather the site just stay Lake Lackmeyer until someone comes along and proposes something that actually contributes to the area instead of trying to be a stand-alone work of art (preferably with sidewalk dining and residential fronting the park).

How about something on the design of Trammel Crow Center in Dallas:

http://legacy.skyscrapercenter.com/class-image.php/userpics/10002/?width=1000&height=800&image=/images/albums/userpics/10002/TrammelCrow_overall_MG.jpg
Trammel Crow Center, 50 stories, 686 ft built in 1984

Would that satisfy urban design & height as a great use of space?

I'm not an expert on these things but that building in Dallas doesn't look like good urban design to me. Looks like it sits in a "plaza" of trees and I'm not seeing much interaction with the streets in the way of retail, restaurants etc. It's not really in a downtown area though so maybe that's not to be expected.

I actually don't care for height. Topping out at 10 stories is good for me. The most important part of any building is the first 20 feet.

Are we revving up the mystery tower dream machine again?

I actually don't care for height. Topping out at 10 stories is good for me. The most important part of any building is the first 20 feet.

http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/phoenix/Graphic-Elements/Phoenix-Skyline.jpg
You should love Phoenix?

If you're going to build, go ahead and get more for your bucks--height on a tower increases its visibility and adds to an impressive OKC skyline. Oklahoma City is moving in the direction of many cities that started their building skyline boom in the 70s & 80s like Atlanta, Dallas, Denver & Houston.

You should love Phoenix?

If you're going to build, go ahead and get more for your bucks--height on a tower increases its visibility and adds to an impressive OKC skyline. Oklahoma City is moving in the direction of many cities that started their building skyline boom in the 70s & 80s like Atlanta, Dallas, Denver & Houston.

Phoenix lacks height and good urbanism. Luckily they have Scottsdale close which is awesome.

OKC needs to focus on urbanism and street interaction. Skyscrapers are pretty but they primarily look good from a distance and may or may not positively contribute to the urban fabric of a city. Height is also entirely a result of economics and its something that isn't likely to happen when oil is $20/bbl. Unless you are Devon, who wanted an iconic skyscraper, developers will only build up when it makes economic sense to do so.

http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/phoenix/Graphic-Elements/Phoenix-Skyline.jpg
You should love Phoenix?

If you're going to build, go ahead and get more for your bucks--height on a tower increases its visibility and adds to an impressive OKC skyline. Oklahoma City is moving in the direction of many cities that started their building skyline boom in the 70s & 80s like Atlanta, Dallas, Denver & Houston.

Define "moving."

http://masterthenewnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/quick-sand.png

You should love Phoenix?

If you're going to build, go ahead and get more for your bucks--height on a tower increases its visibility and adds to an impressive OKC skyline. Oklahoma City is moving in the direction of many cities that started their building skyline boom in the 70s & 80s like Atlanta, Dallas, Denver & Houston.

The Valliance Bank Tower over by Penn Square Mall is 322 feet high. Since it's over by itself, it looks quite impressive. Unfortunately, that tower rises directly out of a parking garage, and is surrounded by nothing. There's no real way to walk to it, or from it. It doesn't add anything to the street or neighborhood around it.

http://c1.vgtstatic.com/thumb/1/7/171752-v1/valliance-bank-tower.jpg

A good skyscraper adds life to the area. You've got a lot of people concentrated in one location. When they get off work, or go to lunch, they add a huge amount of foot traffic to the streets and sidewalks. A bad skyscraper doesn't interact with the neighborhood at all. The Valliance Bank Tower adds a large amount of cars to the interstate when the people go to lunch. It isn't good street interaction. The Dallas skyscraper posted above looks fine, until you get down to the bottom couple of floors. It is shielded from the street by a bunch of trees. There are no stores or anything at the ground level. Of course it's surrounded by acres of surface parking lots as well, so I don't know how many people are going to be walking by.

Give me that tower, drop it down on an empty lot downtown. Eliminate those trees and bring it right up to the curb. Take that ground floor and put in the main entrance right on the corner. Put in some big windows along the street with storefronts. I'd be ecstatic. But right now, that building is designed to look pretty from a distance, and to keep people out up close.

The Valliance Bank Tower over by Penn Square Mall is 322 feet high. Since it's over by itself, it looks quite impressive. Unfortunately, that tower rises directly out of a parking garage, and is surrounded by nothing. There's no real way to walk to it, or from it. It doesn't add anything to the street or neighborhood around it.

http://c1.vgtstatic.com/thumb/1/7/171752-v1/valliance-bank-tower.jpg

A good skyscraper adds life to the area. You've got a lot of people concentrated in one location. When they get off work, or go to lunch, they add a huge amount of foot traffic to the streets and sidewalks. A bad skyscraper doesn't interact with the neighborhood at all. The Valliance Bank Tower adds a large amount of cars to the interstate when the people go to lunch. It isn't good street interaction. The Dallas skyscraper posted above looks fine, until you get down to the bottom couple of floors. It is shielded from the street by a bunch of trees. There are no stores or anything at the ground level. Of course it's surrounded by acres of surface parking lots as well, so I don't know how many people are going to be walking by.

Give me that tower, drop it down on an empty lot downtown. Eliminate those trees and bring it right up to the curb. Take that ground floor and put in the main entrance right on the corner. Put in some big windows along the street with storefronts. I'd be ecstatic. But right now, that building is designed to look pretty from a distance, and to keep people out up close.

I agree with everything you said. The tower itself, though, I really like. I've always heard the above-ground parking was because they couldn't put it underground because of all the water or some such thing. That was when Penn Square Bank was building the tower for their new offices. As we all know now, the parking became the least of their worries.

What's even more interesting about this tower is how many times it's been copied in other cities. We're probably most familiar with the shorter version with concrete instead of the marble exterior on 635 in Dallas ( 3 Park Central ) . My company actually has one of the floors in that tower in our Dallas office. Little known fact, the four corners actually serve as storage and mechanical spaces. They work well for conference space as well. But the building is similarly built with no interaction with it's surrounding area. If you think the NW Xway is an abomination to urbanism, you must have a coronary every time you drive down 635!!!!!

That's all totally unrelated at all to OG&E/Stage Center/etc,....just thought I'd throw an interesting fact our way.

Interesting. Maybe we will keep you around, bomber. :P

I'll admit as a form viewed from afar, Valliance is the best tower in the city.

Interesting. Maybe we will keep you around, bomber. :P

I'll admit as a form viewed from afar, Valliance is the best tower in the city.

I still can't get over how infuriating this saga was. It went just as it was predicted to go by many. Cannot believe our city leadership is so gullible / complicit in this matter.

http://www.405magazine.com/OKC-Development-12-Stage-Center.jpg
We have a nice rain pond. Optimistic that you'll see OGE break ground on something around 2017.

^^^^^^^
It's actually not rain but instead groundwater, which is why it has never been dry. The water table is exposed there. It's hard to tell from that pic, but the surface of the water in that pool is roughly the same elevation as the surface of the water in the MBG lake across the street. This is why fairly extraordinary measures have to be taken when building below ground in this part of downtown.

^^^^^^^
It's actually not rain but instead groundwater, which is why it has never been dry. The water table is exposed there. It's hard to tell from that pic, but the surface of the water in that pool is roughly the same elevation as the surface of the water in the MBG lake across the street. This is why fairly extraordinary measures have to be taken when building below ground in this part of downtown.

The original plans for the Myriad Convention Center was suppose to have multilevel underground parking. They discovered what was believed to be an abandoned underground Chinese laundry; they hit the water table--couldn't dig any deeper. Apparently, parts of the central core were developed over a dry riverbed.


City council members elected not to save the site. It was destroyed in the name of urban renewal, and what once was underground is now buried. The Cox Convention Center marks its grave.

Underground Chinatown OKC:

Unlocking the secrets of Oklahoma City's mysterious city | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3069770)

Urban Archaeologist - 405 Magazine - October 2012 - Oklahoma City (http://www.405magazine.com/October-2012/Urban-Archaeologist/)

http://www.405magazine.com/OKC-Development-12-Stage-Center.jpg
We have a nice rain pond. Optimistic that you'll see OGE break ground on something around 2017.

I'm glad you're as excited as always.

The original plans for the Myriad Convention Center was suppose to have multilevel underground parking. They discovered what was believed to be an abandoned underground Chinese laundry; they hit the water table--couldn't dig any deeper. Apparently, parts of the central core were developed over a dry riverbed.
...

The North Canadian river that is now entirely south of downtown used to be much shallower, wander all over near downtown, and massively flood every few years. Which means it it probably did change course in this area many times before the city was settled and the army corp of engineers made dam sure the city flooding was not going to happen again due to the river.

Edit: found an old map with the original river path
http://imaginativeamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/img_dunn1910_005_fullmap.jpg

Most of downtown is the flood plain of the river. That hill on the north side of downtown is the original riverbank. Seeing that water level I still laugh at the very idea they were going to put the convention center halls underground and stay within budget. I fully expected the bait and switch on that one - but then they moved the whole thing and ruined all the fun.

Here, you can see the delineation between the flood plain and the bluffs. The pond at the Myriad Gardens is visible.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/12135d1453739937-og-e-energy-center-okc-topo.jpg

I'm glad you're as excited as always.

Now we're both happy! :D

From the JR, the last sentence is pretty interesting...

Sign of the times: Does OGE building decision show softening market?

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record January 21, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – OGE Energy Corp. CEO Sean Trauschke wants to house all his employees in one building, whether the company builds it or not.

“We still have a desire and a need to bring all our people together,” he said. “We are committed to downtown. We’ll continue to evaluate the market and see what’s out there. We’re interested in being a tenant of a building.

Last week, the company halted its plans to build a 27-story office tower at W. Sheridan and S. Hudson avenues on the former site of the Stage Center complex. Trauschke said the developer, Clayco Corp., had spoken to several parties about also leasing space, and they indicated it is not the right time for a new office.

“(OGE) didn’t think it made sense to build just for us,” he said.

But Zach Martin, office broker with Newmark Grubb Levy Strange Beffort, said the downtown Class A market has a 98-percent occupancy rate. That makes it seem like it would make sense to build speculative space.

“I think we do need (speculative Class A office space),” Martin said. “I think if you’re a public utility building a building at the absolute highest cost, with oil price declining, you add all that together and that’s a pretty scary thing.”

The market rate for Class A space is $22 per square foot; however, space in a newly constructed building would likely be $30 per square foot, analysts said. In the Oklahoma City market, only a small margin of companies can afford it – oil and gas businesses, said Richard McKown, lead developer with City Center Properties.

McKown has been working on leasing The Plow Building at Reno and Oklahoma avenues downtown. The once nearly condemned building will have its first tenant in February. He’s leasing his space at about $20 per square foot, possibly less. With $11 million in renovation, McKown was able to keep his leasing costs down with historic tax credits.

He said he once had several calls from energy companies asking to lease the whole building, even buy it.

“We’re not getting those calls from the oil and gas companies anymore,” he said.

“Most of the folks that found it easy and reasonable to pay $30 a foot rent and feel just fine were the oil and gas industry,” he said. “I’m not surprised that OGE would have trouble finding folks to come in there. Outside of oil and gas, I don’t know who would come in there.”

Price Edwards & Co. Office Broker Tre Dupuy said the OGE building would have tested the market’s depth. He said the space would have likely been filled by existing Oklahoma City companies, rather than new businesses setting up shop. He said that in the past oil companies filled large office blocks, such as SandRidge Energy in the Kerr-McGee building, or Continental Resources moving in where Devon Energy once worked.

“But when you get into this speculative situation, with leases way over $30 a square foot, there are not too many companies that are chomping at the bit right now,” he said.

The office market isn’t dead, though, Dupuy said. He said it takes a few years before the oil market affects office leasing because companies sign multiple-year leases. He said he is seeing businesses sublease to other entities in what he calls shadow spaces. He said this is helping to bring new people into downtown.

Rick Dowell, president of Dowell Properties, said he started construction Thursday on the downtown Dowell Center at Robinson and Kerr avenues. He said he wants to have it ready for companies looking for smaller spaces. He has also leased 40 percent of the American Fidelity buildings on N. Classen Boulevard. He has 380,000 square feet to fill, though he’s not in an immediate rush because American Fidelity Assurance Co. is still in the building. The company moves out as new tenants move in, per an arrangement with Dowell.

“So far, we’ve leased (American Fidelity) to people that have moved into town or their business is growing,” he said. “The first 40 percent are not people downsizing.”

NAI Sullivan Office Broker Amanda Sullivan said she’s felt a change in the area. She used to get calls frequently on Class C buildings, but those requests have slowed. She said she has even had tenants looking for small Class A space.

McKown said he thinks OGE will have to build its plaza eventually as a recruitment tool. He said young people want to be downtown, even though it’s cheaper to build in the suburbs. He said his father is doing a project in Norman that’s leasing at $16 per square foot, with free parking.

“Downtown is where the energy is,” he said. “(Young people) don’t want to be stuck in the suburbs.”

I've heard from more than one source that OG&E is seriously considering buying the SandRidge Tower and probably the parking garage as well.

I've heard from more than one source that OG&E is seriously considering buying the SandRidge Tower and probably the parking garage as well.

I would love to see the Sandridge Tower lit up in OG&E orange. That would really make the skyline pop at night.

They could buy the SD properties much cheaper than building new and they are in a fantastic location surrounded by wonderful amenities.

And most would be surprised by how nice that tower is on the inside. I know I was when I toured it a couple of years ago. It's all built out to a very high standard.

It makes sense all the way around; they could even allow a slimmed-down OG&E to be a co-tenant.

From the JR, the last sentence is pretty interesting...

Sign of the times: Does OGE building decision show softening market?

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record January 21, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – OGE Energy Corp. CEO Sean Trauschke wants to house all his employees in one building, whether the company builds it or not.

“We still have a desire and a need to bring all our people together,” he said. “We are committed to downtown. We’ll continue to evaluate the market and see what’s out there. We’re interested in being a tenant of a building.

Last week, the company halted its plans to build a 27-story office tower at W. Sheridan and S. Hudson avenues on the former site of the Stage Center complex. Trauschke said the developer, Clayco Corp., had spoken to several parties about also leasing space, and they indicated it is not the right time for a new office.

“(OGE) didn’t think it made sense to build just for us,” he said.

But Zach Martin, office broker with Newmark Grubb Levy Strange Beffort, said the downtown Class A market has a 98-percent occupancy rate. That makes it seem like it would make sense to build speculative space.

“I think we do need (speculative Class A office space),” Martin said. “I think if you’re a public utility building a building at the absolute highest cost, with oil price declining, you add all that together and that’s a pretty scary thing.”

The market rate for Class A space is $22 per square foot; however, space in a newly constructed building would likely be $30 per square foot, analysts said. In the Oklahoma City market, only a small margin of companies can afford it – oil and gas businesses, said Richard McKown, lead developer with City Center Properties.

McKown has been working on leasing The Plow Building at Reno and Oklahoma avenues downtown. The once nearly condemned building will have its first tenant in February. He’s leasing his space at about $20 per square foot, possibly less. With $11 million in renovation, McKown was able to keep his leasing costs down with historic tax credits.

So basically, Plow is more viable as a development because it was preserved? That adds a little salt to the Preftakes block wound.

Also, the Preftakes block could have applied for (and likely received) plenty of TIF money.

that sentence IS interesting and I suppose it does make sense to wait. Particularly when you mix SandRidge into the equation, it MAY make sense for OGE to just take over the skyscraper while SandRidge move their ops to the Garden building (or whatever it's called). I know this is not ideal or what we all want, BUT, it would 'save' this part of downtown and provide a win-win for everybody involved.

I personally would think OGE would be a better corporate partner in the Kerr McGee skyscraper than SandRidge has been; I could see OGE opening the building up for people to really make use of it, including opening all of those street fronts along the garage which would help expand Broadway as a pedestrian retail zone. They might also redo the 'park' snaffu that SandRidge did with the plaza or maybe at least make it more inviting to the public (say, by allowing food carts to set up shop daily.

I'll be honest, the more I think about it - the more I'd like the following to happen:

1) SandRidge to sell the Kerr McGee tower to OGE, hopefully also sell the Garden Building to a Real Estate Holding Company with a lease-back (using the dollars from the sale of the tower). Also sell off the parking lots, garages, and so forth not necessarily to OGE but hopefully piece-meal to developers.
2) SandRidge move into the Garden Building, that space becomes ALIVE and is likely the perfect size for them right now. SR employees USE the new Kerr Park and again - that section and building becomes alive, and especially as Dowell Center begins to also fill up. Hopefully, again, the Garden Building could be a lease-back but it wouldn't have to be as SR could continue to own JUST that building.
3) OGE move into the Kerr McGee tower. Perfect fit for them, 500,000 square feet (which is what they wanted in the ClayCo building) and a great architectural presence in the skyline not to mention it has lighting effects (and OGE is a light utility - so I'd expect some serious light shows at minimal costs). Hopefully, OGE also opens up the storefronts surrounding the tower AND redo the strategy for the plaza area to bring LIFE to that part of downtown and make the tower inviting to the public. THIS would be an EASY way to win the battle of recruitment using an existing OKC icon without fear of having to bring in new office leasing (as was the case with the ClayCo proposal)
4) OGE re-purposes their current tower into a high-end boutique hotel. There currently is NO HOTEL in the North part of downtown OKC but one IS needed, especially if 1, 2, and 3 above happen. Why not turn the original OGE building into a Conrad by Hilton or a Drury Hotel (or the like), 100-150 high end boutique rooms that would not cannibalize the market but would EXPAND it and meet a location/proximity need.

EVERYBODY is happy: OGE gets a large enough tower to consolidate its employees while also showing goodwill to OKC by opening up the building, streetfronts, and plaza to the public and they also use that as prime recruitment tool. SandRidge gets a building appropriate for their current size, which is still very attractive in a prime location and they wouldn't need to worry with the expense of maintaining such a huge section of the city allowing them to at least weather the storm. OKC downtown/citizens benefit by having the NE section of downtown not only completely leased but also FILLED with office workers - something that hasn't been accomplished for 30+ years. The public in general also benefits by the likelihood that OGE would revamp the lighting of the Kerr McGee tower to energy efficient LED spotlights that likely could change color and be programmable, thereby, exposing a huge dark spot in the OKC skyline but not having to worry about the price of Oil to keep the lights ON! And finally, a new Conrad Hotel in the North downtown would bring much needed hotel room stock to that part of the city (with none) and would be used by OGE, SR, and other companies recruitment/corp visits having them in close proximity.

AND FINALLY - when the market improves in 5-years and SandRidge grows again (hopefully diversifying their business model this next go round) perhaps THEY and/or OTHERS (Continental, etc) can resurrect the Clayco proposal (or create their own, better ones) for the Stage Center, opening up the Garden building (and perhaps Mid-America tower) to the rightful market for it such as accounting/consulting co, legal, or smaller plate but high visibility corporate. ..

I like the idea of either a high end hotel or housing in the current OG&E tower. A nice art deco building like that needs to be something that can be shared by the community.

I've heard from more than one source that OG&E is seriously considering buying the SandRidge Tower and probably the parking garage as well.

This is the most likely outcome for both companies.

I've seen that old map of downtown before but never noticed that "Central Park" at 13th. Where did that go? Did it have an actual name? Could that name be revived in the new central park? Not that I don't like Union Commons, or whatever it was we were hoping for.

So why did we tear down Stage Center? OG+E to SD Center makes a lot of sense.

I am just really confused. And why did we tear down the KerMac and India Temple?

This is cruel. These local companies should want to build up our community, not tear it down. We need to have a discourse in this community about what it means to be a corporate citizen, a phrase they all use so much. OG+E has been really shady throughout this whole process. Don't even get me started on SandRidge, who also touts its commitment to our... wait did you feel that earthquake just now?

Devon can't make up for all of them. We have got to stop looking at every energy project and only seeing Devon. We actually do have assets to preserve, with which we have got to be smart.

SandRidge Tower wasn't for sale before Stage Center was torn down.

Not saying this wasn't a tragedy, just keeping the facts straight.

I'm just in shock. Sorry I need a moment to process all of this.

I'm just in shock. Sorry I need a moment to process all of this.

Bank: SD we are going to need you to sell your non-core assets

SD: Sorry we tore them down.

Bank: Do you have anything at all?

SD: We have a cartoon of the Northwoods forest.

Bank: Damn it!

Bank: SD we are going to need you to sell your non-core assets

SD: Sorry we tore them down.

Bank: Do you have anything at all?

SD: We have a cartoon of the Northwoods forest.

Bank: Damn it!

Thanks, JTF

We all needed a good laugh; that was funny.

Starting to fill in the pit; this reminds me of Parks & Recreation:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oge012816.jpg

Hope they got a wetland permit first. :)

Starting to fill in the pit; this reminds me of Parks & Recreation:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oge012816.jpg

Well we better check and make sure worlds biggest movie star 7 years from now isn't living in it.

Well we better check and make sure worlds biggest movie star 7 years from now isn't living in it.

Yeah, all types of Parks & Recreation jokes here.

Somebody should fark Rainey Williams falling into the pit ala Leslie Knope.

"I fell in the pit....you fell into the pit...we all fell in the pit..."

Well we better check and make sure worlds biggest movie star 7 years from now isn't living in it.


Yeah, all types of Parks & Recreation jokes here.

Somebody should fark Rainey Williams falling into the pit ala Leslie Knope.

Ha, I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure I see Andy down there...

Hope they got a wetland permit first. :)

LMAO! Now, that's funny...

Maybe should make Rainey Williams rebuild Stage Center.

is there a "wrongful death" equivalent for "wrongful demolition" in legal precedent anywhere?

"In downtown OKC, here's the thing
you trade Stage Center for four buildings
and once we've all said goodbye
the deal falls through and we all start to cry

Bye bye, Lake Rainey Williams
You asked for too many millions
Bye bye, Lake Rainey Williams
You're 5000 candles in the wind"

^

Haha... Awesome.

is there a "wrongful death" equivalent for "wrongful demolition" in legal precedent anywhere?

Rainy "Day" William should be banned from any future deals with the City of OKC.

I'd rather this thread evolve into a constructive discussion about how we're going to better preserve our landmarks in the future, rather than devolve into tacky ad hominem attacks on Rainey Williams. The problem wasn't Rainey, but the public officials who allowed this to move forward unchecked with an inexperienced developer who had no capacity to deliver on promises. The lack of public oversight that gives a damn is breathtaking.

Between the conclusion of this episode, the Staybridge Situation, Lower Bricktown, the Boulevard, C2S suburban projects, the SandRidge Situation, and more - I'm just convinced that nobody gives a damn. People just don't really care. They can't see past Devon Tower.