If Devon had just stuck to the oil and gas business and left fulfilling the needs of daily life to other merchants imagine how many more people would be on the sidewalks, walking by the dress shop or the sidewalk café, or any other downtown retailer. That is what I meant when I said Devon shielded their employees from interacting with the downtown environment.

Devon doesn't lock the doors and keep their employees in...there are plenty of ways to leave the building and go elsewhere. Your view of them providing quality services to their employees is "shielding" them is quite interesting. Maybe if there were convenient, quality, affordable alternatives nearby that were marketed aggressively that more would leave the building voluntarily. Your approach of forcing people to participate in YOUR preferred lifestyle by limiting their alternatives is also interesting...instead of people competing for the business in a better way, just design buildings so as to make people spread their business around.

My guess is that if the new SC building includes interesting and quality restaurants, clubs, shops, etc., plenty of Devon employees will frequent them. But, if people don't want your goods, no amount of walking past them on the sidewalk is going to help. Use the carrot, not the stick.

Back to the Stage Center site...

OKC has a historic opportunity to avert a super block on this site, and I believe it's important to the long term environs of the Myriad Garden to prevent new ones and possibly break up old ones.

Instead we are moving toward the opposite, and that is sad.


And you know this how? There are absolutely no designs of any kind submitted at this point.

Not to mention the fact that breaking a block isn't always in the best interests of walkability or traffic flow. The Stage Center is a perfect example of how retaining the existing SMALL-super block keeps pedestrian traffic flowing through the stone path (assuming they keep it) but pushes traffic to existing intersections and serves to sort of make traveling that particular road less appealing. That means it's safer for pedestrians. With all the talk about wanting downtown to be walkable, we sure to spend a lot of time talking about wanting to put roads in = more crosswalks = longer walk times.

I think you just need to look at each situation individually and not make a blanket statement about restoring the grid. Sometimes it may be better to do so, sometimes it may not. But lets just jump and say just because we didn't restore all of them, that we're going down a dark road. No pun intended.

Devon has 2,000 employees in their building but they gave none of them a reason to go outside and enjoy or take advantage of all the benefits of P180 or MBG. They built a self-contained work place where we were trying to build an open and permeable pedestrian environment. Yes, there are reasons to go to Devon for lunch, but there is no reason for a Devon employee to leave; on-site parking, on-site gym, on-site food - all of which close when Devon employees aren't using it. If Devon had just stuck to the oil and gas business and left fulfilling the needs of daily life to other merchants imagine how many more people would be on the sidewalks, walking by the dress shop or the sidewalk café, or any other downtown retailer. That is what I meant when I said Devon shielded their employees from interacting with the downtown environment.

Now this isn't to say that Devon employees never go out of the building during the day but I'll bet 90% never do. It would be interesting to get an employee count at each exit/entrance and see the percentage that use the parking garage door vs. all the other doors combined.



Larry Nichols is actually on record that they purposely designed NEBU to be too small to accommodate all the Devon employees so that they would be forced to go out into the community.

Also I can tell you on good account that huge percentages of the staff do not eat there. It is almost considered "uncool." The trend of NEBU serving healthy food has not endeared them to the old school oil-field types. You will see Devon staff eating in other downtown places in abundance. And yes, they are walking there. Too often they are walking there via the skywalks and tunnels, but Devon did not create those monstrosities.

On the other hand every day at NEBU there are dozens or hundreds of non-Devon employees eating there. These people must be coming from somewhere else, as they are not allowed to park in the Devon garage. So could they actually be...walking????

Additionally Devon employees work out and play Ultimate Frisbee in Myriad Gardens (adding to street life and yes, tearing up the grass on the grand lawn). Also more and more Devon people jog around downtown during lunch, additionally adding to street life.

JFF, I think your view from J-ville is a little clouded.

I've seen twelve or so Devon employees pull up on Film Row and cross the street to Joeys before.

Yeah - you can't swing a dead cat down here without knocking off one of those Devon ID cards clipped to everyone's belt. They are anything but isolated.

Yeah - you can't swing a dead cat down here without knocking off one of those Devon ID cards clipped to everyone's belt. They are anything but isolated.

You really need to stop carrying around dead cats... :)

While I completely agree that Larry Nichols has done an amazing job of opening Devon Energy Center to the public and also encouraging Devon employees to be an active part of the downtown community, it should be clarified that he did stipulate very early on in the negotiations with the City that the complex be tied into the Underground system. And of course, the Devon parking structure is linked directly to the atrium and tower.

And ultimately, Project 180 funds (the redirected Devon tax dollars) were used to build a skybridge connection from Devon, through the City Center East Garage and into the skybridge that connects to Oklahoma Tower, then into the broader Underground system.

However, more Project 180 money has been earmarked for pedestrian improvements in the space between Devon, Oklahoma and Corporate Towers. And of course, Project 180 itself was the brainchild of Nichols, and it's done more for downtown pedestrians and public spaces than any other initiative, and by a huge margin.


BTW, I know Nebu gets mentioned a lot but there are actually three other dining establishments in Devon complex: Aravalli, Vast and Flint, plus private dining / event space at Vast and the Colcord.

OCURA still hasn't issued the RFP for this property, but they should in the next week or so.

I'm hearing there will almost certainly be other proposals other than just Clayco. Hope to be able to reveal more soon.

After the RFP is issued, there will be 60 days to respond then OCURA typically reveals any proposals in a public meeting about a week later.

Almost certainly at that time, Clayco's proposal will give some good info about the Stage Center plans as well.

So about late October...

whatever happened to Reno and Walker? I thought he mentioned something was eminent but haven't seen nor heard a word in a while.

whatever happened to Reno and Walker? I thought he mentioned something was eminent but haven't seen nor heard a word in a while.

I think this bottom half of the block is in reference to Reno and Walker ?

I think this bottom half of the block is in reference to Reno and Walker ?

No, it's the block immediately to the west that is owned by the guy who runs Dimitri's Peacock restaurant.

It's been for sale for a while and he hinted it may soon sell but I believe that deal fell through.

The RFP has been issued:

Full Document (http://ocura-ok.org/sites/default/files/files/Reno%26Hudson%20RFP_080514.pdf)

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rfp1.jpg

The evaluation of redevelopment proposal will in part be based upon the principal criteria of:
1. Conceptual Master Plan with required elements as outlined above, including the tenant relocation plan
2. Market Feasibility Narrative
3. Redeveloper Team Qualification Narrative
4. Financial Information-Tier 1 as outlined above
5. Timeframe to Complete Narrative
6. Executed Forms 1-4 in Exhibit A of this RFP
7. $25,000 Good Faith Deposit 30
8. Ten (10) paper copies of the RFP submittal packet and one (1) electronic copy in PDF format
9. One (1) electronic copy of the completed pro forma workbook with your proposal

Sounds like Midwest Wrecking just has to scoot south a bit after SC has fully fallen.

I'm confused, is this a separate development, or is this the proposed retail/hotel building that was visualized in the OGE renderings?

I'm confused, is this a separate development, or is this the proposed retail/hotel building that was visualized in the OGE renderings?

Completely separate.

Completely separate.

Ok, thank you. Glad to see there's potential for further development in that area.

The owner of the Peacock restaurant should be able to retire happy if you know what I mean.

Will the fire tower be destroyed? I hope not.

Will the fire tower be destroyed? I hope not.

I'm very sure it will be razed, providing they get an acceptable offer.

I hope people incorporate it into whatever plaza they're likely to have...

Will the fire tower be destroyed? I hope not.
I hope not as well. That has more historical value than Stage Center...to me, at least.

Meh, it's the most important portion of that block but don't really care to see it go as long as we get more than a 5 story building.

I hope not as well. That has more historical value than Stage Center...to me, at least.

Well, in all fairness and based on your posts in the matter, a McDonald's built in the nineties would hold more historical value to you LOL

Is the California easement included in this RFP?

Is the California easement included in this RFP?

No.

Interesting. So then the city retains that after both sides are developed, presumably by Clayco?

I would guess that clayco will have the easement as part of their presentation and development.

Pretty easy to apply to have it closed That would sail through IMHO

Interesting. So then the city retains that after both sides are developed, presumably by Clayco?

Yes, unless there is an application to abandon the easement, which may happen if Clayco is selected as the developer.

But, Clayco won't be the only bidder for this property.

Yes, unless there is an application to abandon the easement, which may happen if Clayco is selected as the developer.

But, Clayco won't be the only bidder for this property.

How many bidders besides clayco are you hearing? You think continental us interested?

How many bidders besides clayco are you hearing? You think continental us interested?

I hope to be able to share more soon.

But in any event, all cards will be on the table October 6th.


I love these OCURA RFP's because they only give 60 days to respond and then BAM! full conceptual plans are made public.

As I said before, in the case of Clayco their plans will almost certainly provide more details for the Stage Center site, as their stated intention was to bridge and coordinate the two sites in some way.

I suspect this is why we haven't seen any more plans for OG&E yet; that, and waiting for the Stage Center to be completely cleared to try and create some separation from the demolition controversy.

Something You Didn't Know About the Stage Center Development | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/something-you-didnt-know-about-the-stage-center-development/article/5136762)

^^^^^^

Steve's been doing some work. Kudos to him.

Sounds like it could bode well for the property if Frankfurt holds true to his original ambitions.

Oooo, great article from Steve.

Yea, great work Steve. These are the types of articles I like reading, requires some digging and research, not just chasing City council meetings, and OCURA agendas.

A little twin tower action in OKC? I'm down.

So, this solves the mystery as to who the other bidder was for Stage Center. Turns out it was Frankfort before he joined Clayco.

But it begs another huge question: Why was OG&E and Rainey Williams selected instead of his twin tower proposal?


I've said it several times but Stage Center should have gone through OCURA, just like the property to the south is now.

I realize the City didn't own Stage Center but they could have easily acquired it, as they have with many other properties around downtown. Then, they could have taken responsibility for demolition (assuming they couldn't find a redeveloper) and chosen the highest and best use for this critical property.

As it is, we'll likely never know much about other proposals and why Rainey Williams won out.

Makes me wonder, if Clayco is not the highest bidder for the south location then they will utilize their OG&E site better and build the residential/hotel as a taller building or maybe have OG&E combined with spec office space. Maybe they could utilize the space better and have OG&E with a smaller floor plan but taller tower and have a second office tower along with OG&E and the res/hotel tower.

I dunno Pete. It's one thing for a NFP org. to sell off the SC property as a financial suck they can not longer abide.
Had the city stepped up to acquire the property, the whole matter might still be tied up with a yea or nay skirmish on trying to revitalize the property.

Pete or anyone in the know, what kind and how many towers do you all envision being built on this site? I am guessing the OG&E of 16 of approx 16 stories (absolutely sucks), and maybe a couple of twin towers of I have no idea how many stories. It would sure be nice if we got at least one high rise and a couple of mid/high rise towers for this property.

Clayco had hinted about hotel and residential use but that's all I know at this point.

Pete or anyone in the know, what kind and how many towers do you all envision being built on this site? I am guessing the OG&E of 16 of approx 16 stories (absolutely sucks), and maybe a couple of twin towers of I have no idea how many stories. It would sure be nice if we got at least one high rise and a couple of mid/high rise towers for this property.

I'm sick of seeing posts like this. "absolutely sucks"?

A 16 floor tower would be the tallest proposed development in this city in more than 6 years. (Yes Devon Tower started heating up in 2008.) How is that absolutely terrible? I'm excited.

I'm hopeful that Clayco may be buying and developing the lots on the Stage Center block Rainey Williams plans to sell regardless if they win the rights to develop this property to the south.

I'm hopeful that Clayco may be buying and developing the lots on the Stage Center block Rainey Williams plans to sell regardless if they win the rights to develop this property to the south.

The way this is shaking out, it seems like this was more and more of the plan.

Find a local guy who isn't a big name, but still has the resources and connections to purchase the property. Have him take care of the demo while Clayco and OG&E stay as far away as possible. Once it's demolished, have someone "brand new" come in and do the heavy lifting.

So, this solves the mystery as to who the other bidder was for Stage Center. Turns out it was Frankfort before he joined Clayco.

But it begs another huge question: Why was OG&E and Rainey Williams selected instead of his twin tower proposal?


I've said it several times but Stage Center should have gone through OCURA, just like the property to the south is now.

I realize the City didn't own Stage Center but they could have easily acquired it, as they have with many other properties around downtown. Then, they could have taken responsibility for demolition (assuming they couldn't find a redeveloper) and chosen the highest and best use for this critical property.

As it is, we'll likely never know much about other proposals and why Rainey Williams won out.

I just don't think this is all pre ordained from the original RFP. Wasn't there a lot of chatter that Rainey had wanted Pickard Chilton, which then said no? From what I've seen in my brief career in Ohio, Clayco doesn't outsource design. They use Forum.

Btw Pete - I might have a Clayco contact you can try, if you're up for some sleuthing.

Sorry, I am not opposed to any 16 story building usually. It is more or less that this property deserves something very significant and that will impact our skyline. I like the fact it may get multiple towers however, as long as one of them has some significant height that can balance our the skyline because it really needs that.

Sorry, I am not opposed to any 16 story building usually. It is more or less that this property deserves something very significant and that will impact our skyline. I like the fact it may get multiple towers however, as long as one of them has some significant height that can balance our the skyline because it really needs that.

If there is any consolation for anyone worrying about height, I recently, in the last few weeks, saw an interview from a Clayco representative who made the statement that they realize that building height matters on this site. That might just bode well for the SC site as well. We should know more in the next few months.

If there is any consolation for anyone worrying about height, I recently, in the last few weeks, saw an interview from a Clayco representative who made the statement that they realize that building height matters on this site. That might just bode well for the SC site as well. We should know more in the next few months.

I'm guessing you are thinking of the comments from Larry Chapman who was quoted in Steve's updated article (http://newsok.com/article/4987881), originally linked back on page one of the thread.

So, this solves the mystery as to who the other bidder was for Stage Center. Turns out it was Frankfort before he joined Clayco.

But it begs another huge question: Why was OG&E and Rainey Williams selected instead of his twin tower proposal?

The proposal doesn't matter. It's who makes it and from where.

^

Which is why I wish this would have gone through OCURA, so these things are much more open and the people making the decisions are accountable to the public.

Also, because in their new incarnation they've been pretty darn stellar.

I'm guessing you are thinking of the comments from Larry Chapman who was quoted in Steve's updated article (http://newsok.com/article/4987881), originally linked back on page one of the thread.

Yes, Bingo. This is it -


Larry Chapman, a partner in Clayco Realty Group, said the development team inquired about the property’s future and was told the city eventually planned to seek a development plan.

“What happens in the future will have a huge impact on our site,” Chapman said. “Pete Delaney (CEO of OGE Energy Corp.) is very interested in seeing something next door that is very nice, He said if it’s available, let’s look at it and have something much bigger, something that is mixed use. We’re talking about doing something that is far bigger, far more robust.”

Chapman said any potential development of the south half of the block would not result in dropping the previously announced 16- to 18-story height of the OGE Energy Corp. tower. Chapman said an expanded development likely will include housing and a hotel.

“Everyone wants to see more height here, and that’s a good goal to have,” Chapman said.

Give him a million, send him on his way.

A small point that may have been observed in another thread, but I noticed a 'for sale' sign today in front of James Dunn's office building,

^

Good.

Of course, whoever has the winning RFP response can build around him but if that was to happen, there wouldn't be a lot that could be done with his property which Dunn probably realizes.

As a reminder, the responses to the RFP will be opened and read aloud October 6, 2014 at 10 a.m. at the offices of:

Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority
105 N. Hudson Street, Suite 101
Oklahoma City, OK 73102


If you want to see the details ASAP and also probably see the plans for OG&E Tower, stop on by.

I'll request all the materials from OCURA and post them hopefully sometime that day.

bump...

Monday Monday Monday Monday Monday Monday

Is anyone else as excited about tomorrow as I am???

So, the opening of any applications is today at 10AM.

I'm sure Steve Lackmeyer will be at the meeting and I've asked OCURA to send me the electronic applications as soon as they are made public.

We should have good information very soon.