I thought a couple stories were already added to the current OG&E building years ago and that's why you can see a slight but noticeable difference to the architectural style on I think the top two floors...

I don't think so. I'm not in the know at OG&E, but I would guess that the floor with the different windows (one down from the top) is an exec. floor.

I don't think so. I'm not in the know at OG&E, but I would guess that the floor with the different windows (one down from the top) is an exec. floor.

That was from an architect on the architecture tour, but I'll try to find something else to back it up.

I thought a couple stories were already added to the current OG&E building years ago and that's why you can see a slight but noticeable difference to the architectural style on I think the top two floors...

That is just how they designed buildings back then, when style mattered as much as price.

Doug dawg's blog has an article on OG&E. The addition to the current building is covered. A six story additon was made in 1928.

Thank you for that. I was thinking it was 2 stories, but now that you say that I remember it was 6.

Funny, I was going to say earlier that if indeed any additions had been made to the building it looked like maybe 6 stories or so. You can see slight differences in windows and maybe even a bit in the brick below that point. Adding stories to existing buildings was very common in the past.

I'll put this question out there... If Clayco has cold feet on doing the residential tower in conjunction with the office tower, why not doing a joint venture with Milhaus for the residential portion? JV's are done all the time, it would reduce some of the risk to Clayco and brings in a partner who has solid residential expertise.

This project could be directly affected by the convention center site move.

Remember, the TIF money for Clayco was to come from a new TIF district which primary purpose was to feed the convention garage and hotel.

But that TIF district was for north of the boulevard and the convention center will almost certainly no longer be in that area.

Thus, we would be looking at creating this new TIF-within-an-existing-TIF just to give money to Clayco.

Alternatively, they could use the existing TIF, which does not have the budget for the $60 million Clayco is seeking, but could provide them incentives more in keeping with past awards (if any TIF money is given at all).

TIF #2 is now projected to produce $126 million and approximately $36 million of that amount has yet to be allocated.

Also as things stand now, increased property tax due to Clayco & Hines improvements (and any new downtown projects) would got into TIF #2 and thus that $126 million would go higher; and probably much higher.

Do you see this impacting the north parcel at all or just the south parcel?

Do you see this impacting the north parcel at all or just the south parcel?

The TIF request was divided up in four phases; the first two being for the north parcel.

They should be able to fund a reasonable TIF award for all phases with the existing TIF and then let it expire in 2025, rather than creating a whole new one that would last well beyond that time.

Reminder that the Board of Adjustment will hear the appeal to save the bus station today at 1:30PM in the council chambers at City Hall.

Not too optimistic they will overturn the DDRC's decision, but they came pretty darn close on Stage Center and this seems to be a stronger case.

There is at least some hope.

I don't remember if it was the Clayco or the 499 proposal (or maybe even both), but parking revenue was singled out as being a significant portion of the operating income and I am sure they thought the Convention Center was going to be a big part of the revenue stream. If so, they will need to reassess that assumption.

Clayco would be close enough that their parking could be used at certain times, but the allocated parking spaces for both the north and south parcels (each would have a separate, similar parking structure) were based on the needs of their development and their RFP response demonstrated they would be needing all of it for their own use.

Now, due to the proximity, I'm sure general public parking would have brought in revenue in the evenings and weekend, but that revenue stream was never specifically discussed or addressed in their proposal; they merely included what they felt they could charge for monthly parking to their office and apartment tenants.

Been out for a few months. Can someone give me the general overview of where this project stands?

Clayco has submitted a request for $60 million in TIF funds and they are in negotiations with the City.

However, those funds would have come from a newly proposed South CBD TIF district and its primary purpose was to fund the convention center and hotel, along with Clayco.

Now the the cc is not going to the original location and may not even fall within that proposed TIF district, they probably can't move forward with Clacyo.

However, there is an existing TIF and my recommendation would be to negotiate Clayco way down and give them funds from that.

Pete, do you foresee Clayco at least moving forward with the north parcel, or do you think there may be a more radical change in plans as a result of this?

They are moving forward. More details from the application to the DDRC which will be heard next week:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clayco031215a.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clayco031215b.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clayco031215c.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clayco031215d.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clayco031215e.jpg

This building is honestly amazing. Really glad they aren't going majority glass, this look is WAY more timeless.

I'd even call, if I may, world class....

Yeah, I agree. I just think that building is so beautiful.

This project has received a lot of criticism which I can understand, such as residential not fronting the park, but I feel this is a very high quality project and I cannot wait to see it in the skyline.

This project has received a lot of criticism which I can understand, such as residential not fronting the park, but I feel this is a very high quality project and I cannot wait to see it in the skyline.

It had the benefit of 499 being announced around the same time. This building blows 499 completely out of the water, and even though losing the Stage Center sucks it doesn't even compare to everything we are losing on the preftakes block.

Even without that though this building looks spectacular & the materials they are using are outstanding. I'm a little worried they didn't include even a rough drawing of the residential tower though, and I'm still worried about the south half of this block. This building alone though was worth the Stage Center going away, and I was one of the loudest people on here against it. (that was also when the only concept we had was of the mini devon tower proposal which was horrible)

It's beautiful, no doubt. Really like the detail on the parking garage as well.

However, don't like the big plaza on the corner of Sheridan & Hudson, especially with 499 Hines having a similar setup.

The tower is great; it just needs to be moved 30 feet east and 30 feet north, and find a different parking solution.

I still miss the Stage Center, but this is a beautiful building. I wish they'd built it elsewhere, that's all.

The Hudson & Sheridan intersection is going to be completely dead. The city needs to start considering how they are going to draw people in this direction, because at this point, Film Row is essentially completely cut off from Sheridan & Robinson/Broadway…home of a majority of our full service hotels.

The Hudson & Sheridan intersection is going to be completely dead. The city needs to start considering how they are going to draw people in this direction, because at this point, Film Row is essentially completely cut off from Sheridan & Robinson/Broadway…home of a majority of our full service hotels.

Yep. The City better decide quickly what they want MBG to be like after 5pm.

I think the MBG will be relatively fine no matter what. The problem, for me, is that MBG gives the surrounding blocks tons of opportunity to build extremely successful retail/restaurant/entertainment development, so it's enormous lost opportunity.

That being said, if the REHCO site and the Cox site are built out to have those things, and the SW block of Hudson/Reno focuses people to the corner development (would likely be the best spot for a home run restaurant…Maybe Russell Westbrook's :-P). Then I think we'll be more than okay.

If you think it will be fine, then once again I refer people to Love Park and Rittenhouse Square. Long term success rarely just happens by chance.

If you think it will be fine, then once again I refer people to Love Patk and Rittenhouse Square.

I refer you to the Myriad Gardens. ;) It doesn't have anything there now and is pretty active. Just saying...

OKC is definitely growing but..............do you think we can support one more entertainment district? If you include Paseo and the Plaza, it makes eight. This is just a question not a statement.

also: its been a while since I messed with ABLE, but can you put in a bar or restaurant next to a school or police station?

Anybody kept up with the ABLE laws?

JTF has some good points.

It's active because of programming. If it wasn't for that, it could be in trouble. At the very least, it won't live up to the potential that it could see if people were actually living next to it. Hopefully some kind of residential is proposed for the old CC site. That should help it out.

OKC is definitely growing but..............do you think we can support one more entertainment district? If you include Paseo and the Plaza, it makes eight. This is just a question not a statement.

also: its been a while since I messed with ABLE, but can you put in a bar or restaurant next to a school or police station?

Anybody kept up with the ABLE laws?

ABC-1 (3.2% ABW only) and ABC-2 (>3.2% ABW accounts for <50% of total revenue) are allowed right next door to anything. ABC-3 (>3.2% ABW accounts for >50% of total revenue) is not allowed within 300 feet of School or Church.

It's not about entertainment districts, of which OKC has less than 5 (I can only think of Bricktown and the Adventure District). Deep Deuce, Midtown, Plaza, Paseo+Uptown, Arts District…these are neighborhoods, not entertainment districts. Even Bricktown is pushing toward being more of a neighborhood and less of an entertainment district, even though it will likely maintain a bent toward entertainment.

Wow, did we really just wrap all the way back around to "the Myriad Gardens is dead after 5"? That's as ludicrous now as it was the last time we went over this.

MBG will always be a big draw due to proximity to Bricktown, the lack of green space downtown, and its programming.

You're wrong on this one JTF.

(That doesn't mean I support the current development practices on the surrounding blocks)

Well I'm counting eating and drinking neighborhoods. :o
Deep D
M-town
Plaza
23rd
Paseo
Film Row
Brick-T
Auto-Alley
I did not count Western as I consider to far away.

OKC is definitely growing but..............do you think we can support one more entertainment district? If you include Paseo and the Plaza, it makes eight. This is just a question not a statement.


I think in a city the size of OKC there will end up being winners and losers and there is only so much that can be supported, but lets also keep it in perspective. The metro area only has two districts that are full-on entertainment districts with critical mass, and they are Bricktown and Campus Corner.

Places like Film Row have potential down the road but are still very, very early in its revitalization timeline. If Hall Capital and the 21c area develops the right way it could become OKC's second full-fledged entertainment district.

Midtown is a bit farther along than Film Row but its also still pretty early in its revitalization timeline. By 2025 it should have developed into a strong mixed use neighborhood.

The Plaza, the Paseo, and Deep Deuce are neighborhoods with a few bars and restaurants, hardly what I would call entertainment districts. Major cities should have many that are primarily supported by people who live in the surrounding neighborhoods. The more of these OKC has the better.

Wow, did we really just wrap all the way back around to "the Myriad Gardens is dead after 5"? That's as ludicrous now as it was the last time we went over this.

I walked through there the other evening after five and it was thick with people.....I cut through over by the tube to avoid a lot of them.

KINDA worry about saturation, I want the current establishments to be successful. Leases aren't cheap for these proprietors.

KINDA worry about saturation, I want the current establishments to be successful. Leases aren't cheap for these proprietors.

I completely agree with you. That's why I am worried about Core 2 Shore personally. I think it has the biggest potential to be a failure out of everything in play right now, and the resources the city is/will be sinking into it would be much better spent elsewhere.

Well I'm counting eating and drinking neighborhoods. :o
Deep D
M-town
Plaza
23rd
Paseo
Film Row
Brick-T
Auto-Alley
I did not count Western as I consider to far away.

There is certainly some competition but we also have droves of people moving downtown, lots more hotels on the way and people in general wanting to go out in the core.

I've come to believe the success of each district has much more to do about the leadership and vision of key developers and businesses than anything else.

Just look at the Plaza. There is no reason it should be so far ahead of some of these other districts other than the people that got behind it in different but also somewhat coordinated ways.

Each could be completely great and not necessary step on the others as long as there are the right forces behind the development and promotion. At some point the various organic forces have to coalesce otherwise and only when that happens do you get a fully realized district.

It's a big undertaking but could possibly be a game changer. I do worry about maintenance costs. Remember when the MBG was tagged? This park will be considerably larger.
Hey..........I'm all for growing
I will stay on the topic. Ate a LaLunas with friends Saturday, no concerts or game and the streets were busy.

There is certainly some competition but we also have droves of people moving downtown, lots more hotels on the way and people in general wanting to go out in the core.

I've come to believe the success of each district has much more to do about the leadership and vision of key developers and businesses than anything else.

Just look at the Plaza. There is no reason it should be so far ahead of some of these other districts other than the people that got behind it in different but also somewhat coordinated ways.

Each could be completely great and not necessary step on the others as long as there are the right forces behind the development and promotion. At some point the various organic forces have to coalesce otherwise and only when that happens do you get a fully realized district.

I also think the plaza is successful because it targets a specific demographic.

Bob Howard had a lot to do with the success.

I also think the plaza is successful because it targets a specific demographic.

Right, but you have to have something to target them with.

That has to come first.

Yay! A new building with STONE! It looks amazing!

Yep. The City better decide quickly what they want MBG to be like after 5pm.

Maybe they want it like it is now. Full after 5 on any nice day. I know you can't see that from Florida

Right, but you have to have something to target them with.

That has to come first.

Touche'. That can only be achieved when you have an entire district of property owners on the same page & a willingness to create a sense of place.

Agree, you don't have to go far to see failure, just look at Stockyards City.

Agree, you don't have to go far to see failure, just look at Stockyards City.

Not sure Stockyards City should be counted as a failure.

Maybe they want it like it is now. Full after 5 on any nice day. I know you can't see that from Florida

We must have a different definition of full because it's a nice day after five and there are 14 people here besides me. anyhow, this concludes my comments on this portion of the topic.

Kerry weren't you in OKC recently? I don't think people can throw that at you anymore..

Kerry weren't you in OKC recently? I don't think people can throw that at you anymore..

I am here now - and will be for most of the next 6 months.

I absolutely love it. Can't wait to watch it's progress through construction to completion!

I agree that the building materials blow me away. I love it! It just suits my taste of old building styles. This might be my favorite new building when it's completed. It really does put 499 to shame. This is more like something I would expect from Pickard Chilton, not the Lever House knockoff building they are planning to build.

We must have a different definition of full because it's a nice day after five and there are 14 people here besides me. anyhow, this concludes my comments on this portion of the topic.

So you are saying you carefully counted and there were 15 people total using the gardens? If you are going to quote numbers I'd like to know how you got those numbers.

The building materials and style remind me a lot of One Atlantic and The Atlantic buildings in Atlanta. They are 2 of my favorites.

Not sure Stockyards City should be counted as a failure.

No doubt. It was the first Main Street program success in the state and up until a few years ago was probably the only walkable urban shopping district in the city. It may have some limitations as a result of its building stock, but the Stockyards actually shows that you don't need a sea of front door parking to have a successful district in Oklahoma City. You just need contiguous store fronts in a walkable layout.

Okay....Okay . I will take back the Stockyards. Just meant it has progressed at a much slower rate. Should have used Capitol Hill as an example.

Just throwing my 2c in... I absolutely love the choice of building materials and style. It looks like a modern interpretation of something like the First National building, and I dig that a LOT. Very excited for construction to commence.

Oh absolutely, the design really is top-notch.