The problem with saying Democrats screwed it up for 100 years is that the current Republicans got elected by promising to correct the mistakes, but all they did was double-down on the stupidity. When does the fixing start? The truth is it won't get fixed because the average Republican voter is addicted to government spending (look at how many new freeways they want built) and Republican dominated industries have their hands out so often you would think they were homeless begging for money in Bricktown.

You won't get the state government you want because none of you want to live the lifestyle it takes to acheive it. Btw - Texas is in so much debt they will be going the way of Puerto Rico soon enough. Texas is California circa 1980, and we see how that worked out.

You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?

So name one thing Republicans have done to fix things past Democrat rule did.

So name one thing Republicans have done to fix things past Democrat rule did.

Im not saying republicans shouldn't have fixed anything or that they have fixed anything that had been screwed up in the past. I'm saying both political parties bear plenty of responsibility for how messed up our schools, etc are and that it is unfair to blame it on one side or they other. The "blame it all on republicans" sentiment is ridiculous, especially among people here that are generally more knowledgable about Oklahoma than the average person. Schools aren't much better or worse now then they were ten years ago and they weren't any better 10 years before that. Did democrats in the past not win elections on the promise to fix our schools and other aspects of the state just as republicans did recently? Did they instantly create the best schools in the country as some of you suggest that republicans should have over the last 5 years? Was OK the shining example of progressivism for the entirety of the democrats rule here? Many things have improved over the last five years in OK, many have gotten worse. Everyone is quick to point fingers on both sides, but what good does that do? Until both parties are more interested in fixing the problem then assigning blame, nothing is going to change...in OK and abroad.

You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?
So? Do you view as too early to slam Republicans for doing next to nothing to correct the horrible or stupid mistakes Democrats did why they ruled?

The problem with saying Democrats screwed it up for 100 years is that the current Republicans got elected by promising to correct the mistakes, but all they did was double-down on the stupidity. When does the fixing start? The truth is it won't get fixed because the average Republican voter is addicted to government spending (look at how many new freeways they want built) and Republican dominated industries have their hands out so often you would think they were homeless begging for money in Bricktown.

You won't get the state government you want because none of you want to live the lifestyle it takes to acheive it. Btw - Texas is in so much debt they will be going the way of Puerto Rico soon enough. Texas is California circa 1980, and we see how that worked out.

JTF, you've brought this issue up like a 3 year old begs for candy. Show us some proof of your allegations. Show us where Texas revenues aren't sufficient to pay their bond debt? Do you have inside information that the underwiters don't have? Are you part of the consortiums that determine financial stability or are you going to admit you're just pulling your allegations out of you arse? The rest of the world totally disagrees with what you alledge so what do you think you know that everyone else doesnt? Texas is borrowing their money at virtually 0 interest. The economy there is booming aside from oil and gas and will continue to grow because the billions are going to improve and modernize the infrastructure. Private investment, new employer and new jobs are being created by the thousands. You're doing nothing but denying the obvious and looking silly.

Oklahoma has a per person debt of 5,017. Texas has a per person debt of 10,194
State of Oklahoma Debt Clock (http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-oklahoma-debt-clock.html)

State of Texas Debt Clock (http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-texas-debt-clock.html)

While states do have a so called balanced budget requirement, legislators work around this by failing to fully contribute to the pension plans they are supposedly required to fund. Magically states can have a government that they don't have to adequately fund.

That may be true per person but TX has a far more diversified economy, significantly more high income citizens, far more major businesses, more revenues from natural resources and tourism, and a far faster growing economy. They have international airports, seaports, some fabulous universities, an independent power grid and could always impose an income tax if it came to it. Texas can handle it.

Rare that I agree with JTF, but Oklahoma will continue to get itself in trouble by trying to emulate a state that, despite some shared cultural and economic traits, has literally nothing in common with it. We talking about a state that is several times larger and got about a 100 year head start on Oklahoma. Frankly, I would hope such a place would be more diversified than us. I don't understand this line of thought. Go to any other neighboring or regional state and you'll find only Oklahomans have this weird complex with Texas.

I also would not characterize Texas as "booming," at least not anymore. Doing okay, perhaps. I know plenty of people that have been laid off here. Something like 60K layoffs in O&G alone. Remove Austin and the Dallas side of DFW and my guess is Texas is probably in the same shape if not worse than OK. And I am hearing increasingly bleak things coming from Houston. Lots of retailers and restaurants with big Texas footprints are now starting to see their bottom lines affected. (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/11/texas-jobs-consumer-economy-feel-the-low-price-of-crude-oil.html)

Definitely agree that TX has a much better fiscal plan to get through this though. Its unacceptable that OK's government has become some dependent on O&G revenue and we aren't even a generation removed from being on our knees from being in the same position. I should point out even with no income tax, Texas in general has a comparably higher tax burden than OK by most measures (very high property taxes).

Better people need to be elected to run Oklahoma. In my opinion, my state rep is well qualified in his position from being a lawyer with a major in political science. He showed it by voting against allowing the people to vote on banning Sharia law. But someone who is a church deacon or pastor should be shunned, since he or she is possibly motivated to advance a religious right agenda. Candidates who send their children to private schools should be shunned, too, unless you believe the solution to problems in state education is to fund private schools through vouchers.

Actually crude demand will continue to grow, the emerging economies will use a lot of oil going forward. The US could be a net exporter of crude very soon in the future. That will be very good for the economy.

Except we can't export oil.

Im not saying republicans shouldn't have fixed anything or that they have fixed anything that had been screwed up in the past. I'm saying both political parties bear plenty of responsibility for how messed up our schools, etc are and that it is unfair to blame it on one side or they other. The "blame it all on republicans" sentiment is ridiculous, especially among people here that are generally more knowledgable about Oklahoma than the average person. Schools aren't much better or worse now then they were ten years ago and they weren't any better 10 years before that. Did democrats in the past not win elections on the promise to fix our schools and other aspects of the state just as republicans did recently? Did they instantly create the best schools in the country as some of you suggest that republicans should have over the last 5 years? Was OK the shining example of progressivism for the entirety of the democrats rule here? Many things have improved over the last five years in OK, many have gotten worse. Everyone is quick to point fingers on both sides, but what good does that do? Until both parties are more interested in fixing the problem then assigning blame, nothing is going to change...in OK and abroad.
What are some of these many things that have improved over the last five years in OK? If MAPS, that was a continuing program that started long ago.

Despite the downturn in the oil industry, this underlines the strides OKC has made in diversifying it's employment.

Oklahoma City's jobless rate holds steady at 3.6 percent | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-jobless-rate-holds-steady-at-3.6-percent/article/5465263)

Milken Institute released its standing for best performing metro economies of 2015. OKC holds its own at 74 out of 201 metros. Rest of the state's cities...not so much. Tulsa is at 138, Lawton at 172.

There is definitely a visible slowdown in the oil cities between 2014 and 2015, but the falloff is not as near as steep in OKC as others.

The full report with an interactive map: 2015 Best-Performing Cities » map (http://best-cities.org/best-performing-cities-2015-map.html)

Rare that I agree with JTF, but Oklahoma will continue to get itself in trouble by trying to emulate a state that, despite some shared cultural and economic traits, has literally nothing in common with it. We talking about a state that is several times larger and got about a 100 year head start on Oklahoma. Frankly, I would hope such a place would be more diversified than us. I don't understand this line of thought. Go to any other neighboring or regional state and you'll find only Oklahomans have this weird complex with Texas.

I also would not characterize Texas as "booming," at least not anymore. Doing okay, perhaps. I know plenty of people that have been laid off here. Something like 60K layoffs in O&G alone. Remove Austin and the Dallas side of DFW and my guess is Texas is probably in the same shape if not worse than OK. And I am hearing increasingly bleak things coming from Houston. Lots of retailers and restaurants with big Texas footprints are now starting to see their bottom lines affected. (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/11/texas-jobs-consumer-economy-feel-the-low-price-of-crude-oil.html)

Definitely agree that TX has a much better fiscal plan to get through this though. Its unacceptable that OK's government has become some dependent on O&G revenue and we aren't even a generation removed from being on our knees from being in the same position. I should point out even with no income tax, Texas in general has a comparably higher tax burden than OK by most measures (very high property taxes).

Depends on where you are in Texas. Austin is booming with IT. Home sales through the roof. Construction boom, and job boom. Also in Austin the property tax is higher than Oklahoma, however our property insurance is WAYYYYY cheaper than what we had in OKC. I only pay 900 a year on 2500 sqft home. I was paying $3000 in OKC for same type of home. Also I have a view of rolling hills and not a flat prairie. NO CRAZY weather or earthquakes. Dallas or Houston it may be different, but Austin is great.

Depends on where you are in Texas. Austin is booming with IT. Home sales through the roof. Construction boom, and job boom. Also in Austin the property tax is higher than Oklahoma, however our property insurance is WAYYYYY cheaper than what we had in OKC. I only pay 900 a year on 2500 sqft home. I was paying $3000 in OKC for same type of home. Also I have a view of rolling hills and not a flat prairie. NO CRAZY weather or earthquakes. Dallas or Houston it may be different, but Austin is great.

There are two sides to the Austin story in my opinion.

It's booming with growth and is extremely desirable. Austin is right up there with Portland and Denver when it comes to cities beloved by Millennials. With that said, its infrastructure isn't able to handle the amount of people living there now and continuing to move there. The cost of living is skyrocketing, especially if you want to live in an urban part of the city. It's also more difficult to find employment than the numbers would indicate because there is so much job competition. Austin, like Portland and Seattle, is the kind of place where you will find people with degrees waiting tables and living with several roommates.

Texas is a huge state though and overall is much more diverse economically than Oklahoma. Parts of Texas are similar to Oklahoma such as rural north Texas. The Houston area is overall too dependent on O&G just like Oklahoma but they are also far more diverse than they were during the last oil bust. Dallas and Austin will be the least affected by the oil bust.

There are two sides to the Austin story in my opinion.

It's booming with growth and is extremely desirable. Austin is right up there with Portland and Denver when it comes to cities beloved by Millennials. With that said, its infrastructure isn't able to handle the amount of people living there now and continuing to move there. The cost of living is skyrocketing, especially if you want to live in an urban part of the city. It's also more difficult to find employment than the numbers would indicate because there is so much job competition. Austin, like Portland and Seattle, is the kind of place where you will find people with degrees waiting tables and living with several roommates.

Texas is a huge state though and overall is much more diverse economically than Oklahoma. Parts of Texas are similar to Oklahoma such as rural north Texas. The Houston area is overall too dependent on O&G just like Oklahoma but they are also far more diverse than they were during the last oil bust. Dallas and Austin will be the least affected by the oil bust.

I'd definitely agree with the job competition issue. And urban housing isn't helped with TU being right downtown. It's a plus and minus for all sorts of things. It keeps downtown alive, but it also means places like 5th street are perpetually in a state of semi-crap because it's all run-down bars....and college kids are ok with that. You'll also find someone playing live music at most restaurants (whether you want them to or not) because there's a strong small group music scene too. Same thing though...plus and minus. If you like it, it's everywhere...if you hate it, it's still everywhere. In terms of tech jobs, yeah there is a large presence, there (mostly because of Dell's history and what it brought to town, but also because TU is a good Comp Sci school), but it means a lot of start-ups that fail or are gobbled up so there's also a lot of fluidity in the technology sector.

I have a friend that moved there from OKC just a few years ago. She's more on the hippie side than tech side (which Austin is still full of...hence "keep Austin weird". She loves it there but wasn't unhappy here either. She went there because of her job and was lucky to get somewhere like Austin. It's a town where, if you're in a good spot, you hold on to it. Otherwise it can be a ruthless town. All that job competition means that you don't necessarily get the best benefits either because 10 other people are also there to get the job and SOMEONE will take it for less than you just to GET a job.

Oklahoma City's economy doing better than state's, tax receipts show | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-economy-doing-better-than-states-tax-receipts-show/article/5471494)

Oklahoma City's sales tax dips in February | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-sales-tax-dips-in-february/article/5477710)

Oklahoma City's sales tax dips in February | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-sales-tax-dips-in-february/article/5477710)

While dips are not a good thing there is also this from that article.


Nevertheless, February's $37.3 million check from the Oklahoma Tax Commission is the second-largest ever received, eclipsed only by the $38.9 million received in February 2015.

There are two sides to the Austin story in my opinion.

It's booming with growth and is extremely desirable. Austin is right up there with Portland and Denver when it comes to cities beloved by Millennials. With that said, its infrastructure isn't able to handle the amount of people living there now and continuing to move there. The cost of living is skyrocketing, especially if you want to live in an urban part of the city. It's also more difficult to find employment than the numbers would indicate because there is so much job competition. Austin, like Portland and Seattle, is the kind of place where you will find people with degrees waiting tables and living with several roommates.

Which they will do, because that's where they want to be. Period.


Texas is a huge state though and overall is much more diverse economically than Oklahoma. Parts of Texas are similar to Oklahoma such as rural north Texas. The Houston area is overall too dependent on O&G just like Oklahoma but they are also far more diverse than they were during the last oil bust. Dallas and Austin will be the least affected by the oil bust.

Dallas is fabulously diverse. I think its economy is heavier on tech now than energy. Houston is obviously still very dependent on O&G, although perhaps not as much as OKC.

Oklahoma City sales tax increases in April | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5491059?slideout=1)

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-economy-slides-again-in-first-quarter/article/5511331

http://newsok.com/sales-tax-results-for-august-deepen-oklahoma-citys-revenue-slide/article/5513069

Interesting article about reforming the taxes and ways the cities in Oklahoma rely on revenue.

http://newsok.com/task-force-could-explore-sustainable-revenue-sources-for-okc-state/article/5513642

Would the rich folks with significant commercial real estate holdings be cool with the state moving to a tax model based, in large part, on property taxes? I would guess not.

Texas has no income tax and rely on property taxes. As far as I know they have no budget issues. That's a possibility I'd like to see explored.

Texas has no income tax and rely on property taxes. As far as I know they have no budget issues. That's a possibility I'd like to see explored.

But I don't like paying property taxes and don't want to see them higher. To me, if we want better government services, especially for education, then raise income taxes on upper middle to high income people from 5 to 7%. It would start at $75,000. If I was running for state senator, that would be what I'd advocate. I would also advocate abolishing the state corporate income tax to attract industry to Oklahoma, while making the state no longer reliant on corporate income tax incentives and eliminating what corruption goes with it. If that is unacceptable, then people just please need to shut the hell up and resign to learning to live with less than mediocre government services, including education. Either that or move out of Oklahoma, like to Texas or Colorado.

What is the corporate tax rate in Oklahoma?

What is the corporate tax rate in Oklahoma?

6%, down from 7%.

What is the corporate tax rate in Oklahoma?

A better question is always what is the effective corporate tax rate.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/location-matters-effective-tax-rates-corporate-headquarters-state

What is the corporate tax rate in Oklahoma?

With as many credits and corporate giveaways the state offers, its almost a big fat 0. Seems like most monthly reports I read show that the state collected nothing as far as corporate taxes. Sure is nice, huh?

http://newsok.com/economic-uncertainty-persists-for-oklahoma-city-as-summer-turns-to-fall/article/5514799

Interesting article about reforming the taxes and ways the cities in Oklahoma rely on revenue.

http://newsok.com/task-force-could-explore-sustainable-revenue-sources-for-okc-state/article/5513642

Overall I think it would be a good idea for cities to move towards property tax for basic operations. Not sure I would support it for "extras" like Maps, etc. I would not support getting rid of income tax at the state level in exchange for property tax.

In general sales tax is the most regressive tax, and it discourages economic activity, and with the current federal laws, encourages people to buy online instead of locally. If cities were allowed to use property tax, instead of sales tax, maybe we could waive tax on groceries like many other states do, which would make sales tax much less regressive.

Property tax is also regressive, but has fewer issues than sales tax, and is federally deductible when deducting state income tax, while sales tax can only be deducted if state income tax is not. One huge problem with property tax is cities waive it all the time to attract companies.

That being said, I really don't support local income taxes, like Ohio has. So I think property tax is the best option to stabilize local funding. To start out, they should be required to reduced sales tax by the equivalent they raise property tax.

http://newsok.com/economic-growth-slows-in-oklahoma-metro-areas/article/5518986

http://newsok.com/economic-growth-slows-in-oklahoma-metro-areas/article/5518986

"Oil bust, what oil bust?" - Midland, TX

The Permian Basin is really pulling Midland through this slump, it's amazing that Midland led the country in growth through such a horrible commodity pricing period. OKC hasn't done too bad either all things considered.

"Oil bust, what oil bust?" - Midland, TX

The Permian Basin is really pulling Midland through this slump, it's amazing that Midland led the country in growth through such a horrible commodity pricing period. OKC hasn't done too bad either all things considered.

Midland may have led the nation in growth but Odessa had the third biggest contraction. This shows that the region has been affected by the slump. The numbers may be more indicative of the type of jobs lost.

"Oil bust, what oil bust?" - Midland, TX

The Permian Basin is really pulling Midland through this slump, it's amazing that Midland led the country in growth through such a horrible commodity pricing period. OKC hasn't done too bad either all things considered.

OKC's economy is a lot more diverse than people realize.

Overall I think it would be a good idea for cities to move towards property tax for basic operations. Not sure I would support it for "extras" like Maps, etc. I would not support getting rid of income tax at the state level in exchange for property tax.

In general sales tax is the most regressive tax, and it discourages economic activity, and with the current federal laws, encourages people to buy online instead of locally. If cities were allowed to use property tax, instead of sales tax, maybe we could waive tax on groceries like many other states do, which would make sales tax much less regressive.

Property tax is also regressive, but has fewer issues than sales tax, and is federally deductible when deducting state income tax, while sales tax can only be deducted if state income tax is not. One huge problem with property tax is cities waive it all the time to attract companies.

That being said, I really don't support local income taxes, like Ohio has. So I think property tax is the best option to stabilize local funding. To start out, they should be required to reduced sales tax by the equivalent they raise property tax.

I'd sooner leave property taxes alone and raise income taxes on high income people. I don't and never will, but if I made better than $75,000 or $100,000 yearly, I wouldn't mind paying a little higher taxes on it. Property taxes are already high enough for low to moderate income people.

Midland may have led the nation in growth but Odessa had the third biggest contraction. This shows that the region has been affected by the slump. The numbers may be more indicative of the type of jobs lost.

Odessa has always been the more "blue collar" city while Midland has been more office/HQ based jobs. So it doesn't surprise me they would take it a bit harder. The net effect is probably an economy with zero growth, which is not horrible given how many layoffs and cutbacks there has been.

On a somewhat more related note, I saw that, for the first time since late 2014, Oklahoma added jobs in mining (i.e. oil and gas). Too soon to say we hit bottom but a positive indication nonetheless.

I think it's also important to note that Oklahoma City's economic growth in 2015 was actually better than in 2014 - 2014 posted GDP growth of 2.5% vs 2015's 2.8% GDP growth. While growth could be higher, it's telling that GDP growth in OKC still increased despite the downward pressure on the rest of the state.

Just my 2 cents, as far as raising the income tax (like why in the world did we cut it in the first place when things were already tight) the more you make the more you pay. If you find yourself in the situation of a pay cut, then your taxes go down. If you have your property tax go way up and then take a bit of a pay cut, you'll be looking to lose or having to sell your home. I'm retired but not a true senior citizen. Ok, I'm over 55 but under 65. Most tax breaks for retires happen after you turn 65. I've developed some health issues that preclude my going back to work. ( I have my good days and by bad days) If my property tax went way up, I'd be forced into a far less expensive house just due to taxes.

Just my 2 cents, as far as raising the income tax (like why in the world did we cut it in the first place when things were already tight) the more you make the more you pay. If you find yourself in the situation of a pay cut, then your taxes go down. If you have your property tax go way up and then take a bit of a pay cut, you'll be looking to lose or having to sell your home. I'm retired but not a true senior citizen. Ok, I'm over 55 but under 65. Most tax breaks for retires happen after you turn 65. I've developed some health issues that preclude my going back to work. ( I have my good days and by bad days) If my property tax went way up, I'd be forced into a far less expensive house just due to taxes.

Republicans who voted for tax cuts and tax incentives said those actions were needed, so Oklahoma could attract more industry from outside the state. That didn't work out very well. Apparently, industry is looking for more advantages than tax bribes. Advantages Oklahoma doesn't have.

Oklahoma City is rising and beginning to beat out of all its peers. We are ahead of Jacksonville, Memphis, and Louisville.

http://usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0616/report.pdf

Edmond housing starts drop 26 percent

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record December 16, 2016

EDMOND – The number of new home permits issued has dropped 26 percent so far this year, according to city records. The most recent data ends in October.

Homebuilder Caleb McCaleb said his company, McCaleb Homes, saw a 10-percent decline in its work this year.

“Basically, we had a lot of people in the energy sector – when the oil was $30 to $40 a barrel – that just quit buying,” he said. “The positive at the end of the year is that the price per barrel of oil has had pretty steep increases. We’re seeing the energy sector buyers back on the market.”

McCaleb said the decline isn’t only in Edmond. Metrowide, new home starts are down 20 percent compared to this time last year.

In Edmond, there were 637 residential building permits issued in 2013, which was the highest number in the last five years. By comparison, only 340 permits have been issued to date this year.

Re/Max Associates Realtor Brian Preston said the decline in home starts isn’t necessarily a problem for the real estate market. He said sales haven’t matched the rate that new homes have come online.

“New home sales are down 19 percent,” he said. “When you have a large inventory, and then a decrease in sales, you don’t need inventory. You need to quit building.”

Home sales are down only 4.5 percent, he said. Preston said he couldn’t explain why more people are buying previously owned homes instead of new products.

Builder Tom French with French Construction said it’s been a slow year for his business as well. He said he thinks the low oil prices and the election have slowed people’s interest. But once the election was over, his phone started ringing again.

“Most of my stuff is $450,000 and up,” he said. “I’ve got friends building in the $250,000 range and they’re really slow. It’s been a crazy year, for sure.”

French said there’s been a decline in large home developments in Edmond as well. But with inventory not moving quickly, it’s hard to motivate anyway to start something new, Preston said.

He said he expects sales activity to pick back up next year.

“We needed this correction because we had a high supply, and on top of that, demand was down,” he said. “But I’m an optimist. I see the glass as half full. I’m a doer and I’m looking for a refill.”

https://i.imgur.com/OBZ40Vl.png

3rd straight month of sales tax growth.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5567702

http://newsok.com/sales-tax-up-for-seventh-consecutive-month-in-oklahoma-city/article/5571668

http://journalrecord.com/2018/01/24/corporate-interest-growing-in-okc/?platform=hootsuite

http://journalrecord.com/2018/01/24/corporate-interest-growing-in-okc/?platform=hootsuite

Meh, Let me know when official announcements are made, until then I will remain skeptical. OKC has little history of incoming Corporate relocations.

I think OKC is really close but the state is f@cking the city in its ass and I think that is what will hinder progress.

Meh, Let me know when official announcements are made, until then I will remain skeptical. OKC has little history of incoming Corporate relocations.
You didn’t even have to post this. We all could have just inferred your position.

I think we've all been here long enough to where we know what everybody will generally think.

http://kfor.com/2018/01/26/aerospace-company-coming-to-oklahoma-city-officials-say/

Maybe it's SpaceX?

Meh, Let me know when official announcements are made, until then I will remain skeptical. OKC has little history of incoming Corporate relocations.

Something today at 1:00 pm. My guess (and it's just a guess) is Northrup Gruman moving engineers to OKC........

I'm pretty sure this is Northrup.

Something today at 1:00 pm. My guess (and it's just a guess) is Northrup Gruman moving engineers to OKC........

I'm pretty sure this is Northrup.

Yeah, I'm also pretty sure it NG. There's been a lot of buzz about them recently in OKC and their reps have been visiting the state more over the last year.

Roy Williams says will result in a complete aircraft being built in OKC. I think that is more significant than moving engineers here.

Lockheed Martin is my guess.

Neither Northrup Gruman nor Lockheed Martin are California-based.

So far all the guesses are wrong. Stay tuned. You will all know in 30 minutes!

So far all the guesses are wrong. Stay tuned. You will all know in 30 minutes!

Nice! Looking forward to it.

Perhaps NG will still be moving (or expanding some operations here at some point too. I've heard a lot of rumblings about them looking to get a presence here.