I love my city and I will go to back for it any day of the week. I have spent countless hours defending it... however, when it comes to transit, we truly do a horrible job with it.

First and foremost, we need to improve all of our interchanges... this doesn't include these crappy half-ass cloverleaf hybrid interchanges, it is time to get with the times and become modern with our highways

2nd- commuter and light-rail

our roads are awful. We need more 6 lane arterial streets... at the very least, medians and turn lanes are badly needed

Our air service has to be expanded. I know it has been said time and time again, a hub is as likely as NASA building a new spaceport here, but surely we can find a way to expand our service somehow.

OKC needs new highway loops and expansions.... but for now, we need to fix our interchanges first and establish commuter rail. Those two things are very important, imo.

I agree the roads aren't the best (in terms of actual quality - potholes, interchanges, etc) but 6-lane arterial roads? *cringe* So what, this city can become even less walkable and pedestrian-unfriendly and oriented toward cars? There is zero need for that sort of madness.

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

When did you leave? A lot of your recent comments seem dated. The city is growing and I see more people coming in than leaving. If you get involved in things like Better Block and some of the street festivals, you quickly realize that there is a growing mass of young, creative professionals who not only like living here, but may be doing the most to make positive changes. Seriously, the difference between now and just 3 years ago is noticeable. I think the most interesting thing is the type of people that are coming, coming back, or staying. A lot of the younger people tell me they like it because it's so accessible. One person or a small group of people can make real changes. There is more positive energy in OKC's youth contingent than I have ever seen. Most people these days who talk poorly about the city left awhile ago. Certainly, there's still an image problem and it's hard to get people to come here no matter what, but as long as it's still in Oklahoma, that will always be a problem. But, once they do come here, you're seeing more of the decide to stay awhile and/or comeback. The census numbers suggest this is happening, but if you actually get active in the community, you can see it first hand.

My suggestion for OKC is to start RIGHT NOW figuring out how to Kerry's District to District transit model in place. Start linking them all together so each district feels very close -- cause right now they aren't.

I like the suggestion, too, but they feel more joined than they ever have and it should get even better with Metropolitan and then hopefully the Flatiron. Walking from Deep Deuce to H and 8th feels like nothing now. I'd love to see Broadway get some structural infill, but the districts out of the CBD and BT are beginning to come together more and more. Last year I did not feel this way, but now each district feels about two blocks apart from each, which is way closer than in a lot of cities.

Absolutely. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it and can more than understand why somebody would want to leave, especially if they've lived here their entire lives. I am just pointing out that actions do speak louder than words.

Then your words are bunk. The stats prove you wrong. More people are coming than going. Please stop digging yourself further in the hole.

I'll tell you what will do it. You need Paseo Arts District, Plaza District, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, and others to 'finish'. There are a lot of neighborhoods in OKC that are up and coming but in terms of walking 10 blocks or so of nice commercial space and medium priced housing and you'll see gentrification happen. In all honestly, I think that's what it will take for OKC to truly take off. Some old fashioned gentrification that feels very mature in a few places. When we lived there we lived in Deep Deuce and I felt it was the closest to that simply because of the housing density, proximity to grocery, restaurants, and entertainment. Yet Deep Deuce still lacks a homogeneous sense of place or any kind of mini-main street to just stroll and most importantly - spend money.

As spread out as OKC is, its curse will be a massive blessing in the future when there are a dozen of these 'small cities' within the city. The breadth of choices, the rise in the quality of schools, and the almost unlimited room for housing which will keep housing rates relatively down.

I don't think anything is wrong with OKC now. I think time is the only thing it lacks before it's on the map in much more serious ways and the reverse will start to happen. People like me will go to OKC and see how they can duplicate their lifestyle for a lot less money and perhaps get even more value simply because there are more things to do in such a spread out city.

My suggestion for OKC is to start RIGHT NOW figuring out how to Kerry's District to District transit model in place. Start linking them all together so each district feels very close -- cause right now they aren't. Without a really special public transit connector, you'll very likely see neighborhoods more like you see in Atlanta where walkability is minimized to make room for the volume of traffic just passing through or visiting the districts.

Don't stress what OKC is today. See the future and build toward it in such a way that the end product 'lands' closer to something special rather than something anyone can just find in Atlanta or Houston.

Excellent insight. I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.

Excellent insight. I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.

Have you not been to the Memorial at night ? Charles Barkley was in tears talking about it, 2 years ago.

The streetcar will not only knit together a bunch of the districts through transportation, it will spur more development along it's path and thus create the needed bridges.

The districts are already growing together and the streetcar will be a huge catalyst.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.

How many times are you going to write this exact post

When did you leave? A lot of your recent comments seem dated. The city is growing and I see more people coming in than leaving. If you get involved in things like Better Block and some of the street festivals, you quickly realize that there is a growing mass of young, creative professionals who not only like living here, but may be doing the most to make positive changes. Seriously, the difference between now and just 3 years ago is noticeable. I think the most interesting thing is the type of people that are coming, coming back, or staying. A lot of the younger people tell me they like it because it's so accessible. One person or a small group of people can make real changes. There is more positive energy in OKC's youth contingent than I have ever seen. Most people these days who talk poorly about the city left awhile ago. Certainly, there's still an image problem and it's hard to get people to come here no matter what, but as long as it's still in Oklahoma, that will always be a problem. But, once they do come here, you're seeing more of the decide to stay awhile and/or comeback. The census numbers suggest this is happening, but if you actually get active in the community, you can see it first hand.

His comments seem dated because he doesn't let anything resembling actual facts inform his opinions. You'd be better served by reading his posts upside down.

His comments seem dated because he doesn't let anything resembling actual facts inform his opinions. You'd be better served by reading his posts upside down.

Also, he didn't leave. He currently lives in the suburban fringe.

There's been an enormous change in this city over the last 10 years. I'm not talking about development, I'm talking about the attitudes of the people here. When I was in high school (graduated in '96), I remember everyone complaining about this city. It seemed nobody liked it here or wanted to be here. When I moved back after law school in 2003, everyone asked me "why?" But today there's a great sense of community spirit here. There's a positive vibe in this town that I don't ever remember seeing before. To be sure, there are still cantankerous folks who like to complain all the time and who can't stand the place. But now they're actually being countered by people who are excited to live here and be here.

I am excited for what Oklahoma City is becoming. We have our faults, every city does. And I will criticize the way a lot of things are handled, and I will go on record as saying I think XYZ development should be denied, or changed, and I will complain about tearing down Stage Center and this is why we can't have nice things, etc. But it's because I can see the immense potential that OKC has and I'm very excited about how things are progressing here.

I had dinner with a coworker who grew up in L.A. and went to college in NYC. We went to Midtown. She raved about the Ambassador, talking about how the rooftop bar was "just like you would see in New York" and said how she loved living in Deep Deuce. Once these districts start linking up together, making a real walkable environment from Bricktown to Midtown, it will be incredible. Future stages of the streetcar that link downtown with 23rd street and the Paseo or with Capitol Hill will only improve that.

Geez, reading some of the posts, one would wonder why anybody would choose to live in a place that's not a large coastal city. Maybe they're masochists that love places where there's apparently nowhere to go or nothing to do?

Fact is, as has been said multiple times before, the city has come a long way in a fairly short amount of time. Is everything ideal? No. Is there much work to be done? Absolutely. Does that put everything on a scale from crapulent to disastrous until it is ideal? Certainly not. Improvements are going to take time. Change in mindset is going to take time. Everything's going to take time. There's going to be screw-ups, but what city doesn't screw things up? If we can't properly adjust ourselves to what we have (good and bad) and some of the realities of progress, then a move to somewhere more complete (whatever that is for you) might make sense. I only suggest this: while you're on your way in, don't talk to the people going in the opposite direction. I'd imagine their reasons for moving out to a smaller city are just as legitimate as yours are for moving in to a bigger city.

Also, I recommend that the title of this thread be changed to "What you don't like about OKC, Part II".

So the "Something Big Coming" thread is now taken a life of it's own. It's like the new Mystery Tower rumor title.

Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor.

One thing all great cities have in common is that there is one must-see street. Where is OKC must-see street? I think the closest OKC has is Sheridan from Joe Carter to Shartel. Sadly, when I first started coming to OKC as a kid the must-see street was South Meridian. It is where everyone went to be seen.

Geez, reading some of the posts, one would wonder why anybody would choose to live in a place that's not a large coastal city. Maybe they're masochists that love places where there's apparently nowhere to go or nothing to do?

Fact is, as has been said multiple times before, the city has come a long way in a fairly short amount of time. Is everything ideal? No. Is there much work to be done? Absolutely. Does that put everything on a scale from crapulent to disastrous until it is ideal? Certainly not. Improvements are going to take time. Change in mindset is going to take time. Everything's going to take time. There's going to be screw-ups, but what city doesn't screw things up? If we can't properly adjust ourselves to what we have (good and bad) and some of the realities of progress, then a move to somewhere more complete (whatever that is for you) might make sense. I only suggest this: while you're on your way in, don't talk to the people going in the opposite direction. I'd imagine their reasons for moving out to a smaller city are just as legitimate as yours are for moving in to a bigger city.

Also, I recommend that the title of this thread be changed to "What you don't like about OKC, Part II".

Agreed. And since this isn't tied to a specific building or group of buildings, I really don't think it belongs in the Development section. :)

One thing all great cities have in common is that there is one must-see street. Where is OKC must-see street? I think the closest OKC has is Sheridan from Joe Carter to Shartel. Sadly, when I first started coming to OKC as a kid the must-see street was South Meridian. It is where everyone went to be seen.

Broadway through Auto Alley is the closest OKC has to that.

There's been an enormous change in this city over the last 10 years. I'm not talking about development, I'm talking about the attitudes of the people here. When I was in high school (graduated in '96), I remember everyone complaining about this city. It seemed nobody liked it here or wanted to be here. When I moved back after law school in 2003, everyone asked me "why?" But today there's a great sense of community spirit here. There's a positive vibe in this town that I don't ever remember seeing before. To be sure, there are still cantankerous folks who like to complain all the time and who can't stand the place. But now they're actually being countered by people who are excited to live here and be here.

I am excited for what Oklahoma City is becoming. We have our faults, every city does. And I will criticize the way a lot of things are handled, and I will go on record as saying I think XYZ development should be denied, or changed, and I will complain about tearing down Stage Center and this is why we can't have nice things, etc. But it's because I can see the immense potential that OKC has and I'm very excited about how things are progressing here.

I had dinner with a coworker who grew up in L.A. and went to college in NYC. We went to Midtown. She raved about the Ambassador, talking about how the rooftop bar was "just like you would see in New York" and said how she loved living in Deep Deuce. Once these districts start linking up together, making a real walkable environment from Bricktown to Midtown, it will be incredible. Future stages of the streetcar that link downtown with 23rd street and the Paseo or with Capitol Hill will only improve that.

There's no "like" button, but I had to say how much I liked this from hoyasooner. Very well said and I feel so much the same way. Thanks hoya!

I've thought about what -- if anything -- is unique about Oklahoma City.

At the same time, I've long worried that the answer to that question is "nothing". That we are merely trying to do the same things other cities have already done (streetcar, urban districts, etc.) and generally done way better.

But I had a bit of an epiphany about a year ago and I have continued to analyze it, wanting to make sure that I was being at least somewhat objective. And I'm pleased to say the revelation has held up to scrutiny.


I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

And I would add the City is unique in that it's infrastructure is very well positioned for explosive expansion.


Both these things are far more unusual than you may think. There are some in central Oklahoma who are worry about increased traffic and the like, but far less than in other cities I've visited.

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


These things are OKC's greatest assets, hands down. I'd say about 95% of the people that live there are incredibly excited and proud of what has happened thus far and at the same time very hungry for far bigger and better things.

I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.


I have had the same internal conversation Pete. Here in Jax our urban districts are 10X better than anything in OKC but on the 'momentum' front - OKC has a lot more steam behind it and when it passes Jax it is going to leave us in the dust quick, fast, and in a hurray. Jax will be standing around asking, "What the hell was that?"

Prove it. Where has any company stated they bypassed OKC because of our highways? Or were you sitting in on their board meetings where they discussed relocation?Don't believe me, that's fine. The truth is the truth however, and if you want to obstruct city progress, because of your own incompetence, that so be it.

double post

Over the last several years, Oklahoma has been experiencing positive migration from every single state, and that trend is accelerating.

As recently as five years ago, more people were moving to Texas (and a few other states) than moving to OK from them; but that trend has completely reversed and picking up strong steam in the other direction.


People in the U.S. are very mobile -- they are going to move. But stats show many more are moving to Oklahoma than away from it.

And as OKC is the biggest population center and the place that is growing much faster than anywhere else in the state, I'm sure if you could break down the numbers just for the city they wold show very, very strong moves in one direction.


As mentioned, this trend is accelerating. With the extremely low unemployment rate and very strong growth in jobs, you can bet in five years all these indicators will even be much more favorable.+1

I have had the same internal conversation Pete. Here in Jax our urban districts are 10X better than anything in OKC but on the 'momentum' front - OKC has a lot more steam behind it and when it passes Jax it is going to leave us in the dust quick, fast, and in a hurray. Jax will be standing around asking, "What the hell was that?"

Jacksonville is quite often criticized for many of the same things OKC is criticized for. The two cities are pretty similar in population and both considered behind others in their tier. It surprises me they would be that far ahead of OKC. What are some neighborhoods that you would say fall into that category so I can look them up on Streetview?

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


Don't let PluPan hear you say this.

I agree the roads aren't the best (in terms of actual quality - potholes, interchanges, etc) but 6-lane arterial roads? *cringe* So what, this city can become even less walkable and pedestrian-unfriendly and oriented toward cars? There is zero need for that sort of madness.Well, I was thinking Penn, Western, Memorial, SW 89th, May, and a few others. Obviously, there are a few portions of those roads that have areas where they should remain 4 lanes so to not discourage walkability, but the traffic is getting horrid on them and they are horrible roads in general. They have resurfaced a couple of them, but they're bland, boring, and ugly. I think just removing the utility lines would do wonders.

May Ave. by NW Expressway is such an awesome area of OKC. I love that area!

Don't let PluPan hear you say this.Sir, I'm very aware that we have an nice established freeway system for a city of our size.

Excellent insight. I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.For me, NW Expressway and May area has a wow factor.

The other areas that have a WOW factor for me are:

Bricktown
Downtown
Paseo
NW OKC(the amount of new contraction out there is incredible)

Sir, I'm very aware that we have an nice established freeway system for a city of our size.

:)

:)our interchanges though, are a different story....

Perhaps I can be unrealistic at times about what we truly need, but something has to be done with out current interchanges because they are horribly outdated.

Yeah I really meant cooler summers in the mountains, but it is a drier heat in Denver than it usually is here which doesn't feel quite as oppressive when it does get that hot. It also takes longer to get up to those 100 + degree temps and they generally don't last as long.
O
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On the other hand, winters can be harsh and the same dryness causes substantial sinus problems in a cold dry climate.

on ztue other hand, winters can be harsh and the same dryness causes substantial sinus problems in a cold dry climate.

Just depends on what you like.


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Just depends on what you like.


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Exactly

Can't argue with that one, though

It's going to be in the upper 80's here in SEA for a few days and everybody is going on and on about the "heat wave", lol.

To be fair though, 95% of homes here (including mine) don't have AC.

I've thought about what -- if anything -- is unique about Oklahoma City.

At the same time, I've long worried that the answer to that question is "nothing". That we are merely trying to do the same things other cities have already done (streetcar, urban districts, etc.) and generally done way better.

But I had a bit of an epiphany about a year ago and I have continued to analyze it, wanting to make sure that I was being at least somewhat objective. And I'm pleased to say the revelation has held up to scrutiny.


I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

And I would add the City is unique in that it's infrastructure is very well positioned for explosive expansion.


Both these things are far more unusual than you may think. There are some in central Oklahoma who are worry about increased traffic and the like, but far less than in other cities I've visited.

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


These things are OKC's greatest assets, hands down. I'd say about 95% of the people that live there are incredibly excited and proud of what has happened thus far and at the same time very hungry for far bigger and better things.

You could actually describe a few cities like that. But that wouldn't be the most unique thing about them though.

You could actually describe a few cities like that. But that wouldn't be the most unique thing about them though.

San Antonio is definitely a unique city because of its history, the Riverwalk, etc. It has a unique vibe that you only find there.

Oklahoma City is a young city and lacks the historical legacy most of its peers have. It also lacks any kind of geographical, climate, or natural advantage. There is one thing OKC has that IS unique, and that's the Native American heritage. Unfortunately, the derplahomans in the state government refuse to capitalize on that and finish the Native American Museum and Cultural Center. That would be an attraction that is truly unique and would draw people from places like Dallas and Kansas City because nowhere else has anything like it. Shame on the state legislature!

Back to what Steve could possibly be hinting at. For those that follow his chats he has helped rule out big areas like the Chevy events center parking lot if my memory is correct. Figuring out the location is the first step, for me, in figuring out what this could possibly be that could make other cities jealous. My guess is the parking lot on the southwest side of reno and Oklahoma avenue. It's big, it's an important area with the new boulevard touch its farthest south point. I'm not sure who owns it but I know it's important parking for a lot of the lower bricktown area so regardless if this lot is steve's something big I think this lot has lots of potential and it will happen sooner rather than later.

Whatever happened to the big entertainment venue planned by the folk that own the Wormy Dog? Is that project still alive, on life support, dead? Anyone.

Whatever happened to the big entertainment venue planned by the folk that own the Wormy Dog? Is that project still alive, on life support, dead? Anyone.

I remember Steve saying in one of his chats a few months back that its dead. I just did a search to see if I could find it but I couldn't, so don't take my word for it.

I think if it makes Kansas City and Dallas jealous, it has to be something bigger than a music venue. That's not to say the announcement of a venue wouldn't be awesome. OKC definitely needs something that can compete with the Brady theater and Cain's Ballroom in Tulsa.

There's no "like" button, but I had to say how much I liked this from hoyasooner. Very well said and I feel so much the same way. Thanks hoya!

Hey, thank you. :)


I've thought about what -- if anything -- is unique about Oklahoma City.

At the same time, I've long worried that the answer to that question is "nothing". That we are merely trying to do the same things other cities have already done (streetcar, urban districts, etc.) and generally done way better.

But I had a bit of an epiphany about a year ago and I have continued to analyze it, wanting to make sure that I was being at least somewhat objective. And I'm pleased to say the revelation has held up to scrutiny.


I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

And I would add the City is unique in that it's infrastructure is very well positioned for explosive expansion.


Both these things are far more unusual than you may think. There are some in central Oklahoma who are worry about increased traffic and the like, but far less than in other cities I've visited.

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


These things are OKC's greatest assets, hands down. I'd say about 95% of the people that live there are incredibly excited and proud of what has happened thus far and at the same time very hungry for far bigger and better things.

I don't think it matters if we are just mimicking things that other places have done better. San Antonio has a river walk that is a lot better than our Bricktown canal. I'm sure Portland's streetcar system is bigger than ours will be. We're never going to have the kind of streetwall that Chicago has, and I'll bet the urban neighborhoods in Seattle or San Francisco leave ours in the dust. Denver has better mass transit, I bet. We don't have the cool festivals and the hip reputation of Austin, or the thriving gay leather bar scene that dominates the Charlotte nightlife. We try to copy bigger better cities and we end up with a poor man's version of them.

But you can't compare OKC only to these cities, you have to compare OKC today to OKC 20 years ago. And when you make that comparison, the differences are staggering. OKC is still struggling to find that unique character that will set it apart from everywhere else. What we are doing is copying everything we can from a dozen different cities. We will end up with a fusion of all these projects that will be different from any other city. We are trying everything and we will see what works. We aren't going to know what the final picture looks like until the last piece is in place.

I don't think it matters if we are just mimicking things that other places have done better. San Antonio has a river walk that is a lot better than our Bricktown canal. I'm sure Portland's streetcar system is bigger than ours will be. We're never going to have the kind of streetwall that Chicago has, and I'll bet the urban neighborhoods in Seattle or San Francisco leave ours in the dust. Denver has better mass transit, I bet. We don't have the cool festivals and the hip reputation of Austin, or the thriving gay leather bar scene that dominates the Charlotte nightlife. We try to copy bigger better cities and we end up with a poor man's version of them.

You are right on here. I do find it hilarious though that you say Charlotte's nightlife is dominated by the gay leather bar scene. Of course I am not gay so I am not an expert on the scene, but I had some close friends in Charlotte who were and I even went to a few gay clubs, but had never heard of a leather bar. Charlotte's nightlife is widely dominated by bars in which the best OKC comparison is O Bar in the Ambassador Hotel and clubs like Club One15.


But you can't compare OKC only to these cities, you have to compare OKC today to OKC 20 years ago. And when you make that comparison, the differences are staggering. OKC is still struggling to find that unique character that will set it apart from everywhere else. What we are doing is copying everything we can from a dozen different cities. We will end up with a fusion of all these projects that will be different from any other city. We are trying everything and we will see what works. We aren't going to know what the final picture looks like until the last piece is in place.

I agree that the difference in this city today and the way it was in the 1990s is staggering. It's important though for several reason that OKC compares well to its peer cities and not just to itself pre-MAPS. OKC is competing with these other cities for jobs, corporate relocations, and educated talent. Things are probably over one hundredfold better than they were 20 years ago, but OKC is still getting passed up more than it probably should, especially given the boom that is currently happening in Texas.

Jacksonville is quite often criticized for many of the same things OKC is criticized for. The two cities are pretty similar in population and both considered behind others in their tier. It surprises me they would be that far ahead of OKC. What are some neighborhoods that you would say fall into that category so I can look them up on Streetview?

Avondale
Corner of St Johns Ave and Ingelside Ave.

Riverside
Kings Ave from Herschel St to College St.

5 Points
A large area with multiple midrise condos and apartments located around the intersection of Park St, Margaret St, and Lomax St.

Brooklyn
New neighborhood along Riverside Drive between I-95 and downtown. Check out 220 Riverside on multiple web sites.

Southbank
Corner of Riverplace Blvd and Gulf Life Dr.

Downtown Jax - do a streetview of Laura St starting at Duval St and working your way to Jax Landing (which is about to be torn down and replaced with a much larger mixed-use project)

San Marco
Just find Balis Park

San Marco North
San Marco Blvd from Nira St to Riviera St.

San Marco East
Hendricks Ave from the railroad tracks to Atlantic Blvd.

Jacksonville Beach
1st St from Beach Blvd to 6th Ave. Streetview doesn't do it justice becasue all those surface parking lots have been developed into housing, retail, hotels, bars, and restaurants.

Atlantic Beach
Atlantic Ave from 3rd St to the Ocean.

And finally, Betts would be mad if I didn't throw in Springfield. It is one of her haunts when she is in town.
Main St from 8th St to 6th St.

I drive Uber in all these places and they are packed with thousands of people. On Friday and Saturday nights don't even try to find a parking place (which is why I do Uber there). The problem with Jax is that these places are filling up quickly and there is no momentum to build new places, whereas OKCs historic districts are just now catching on and there is ample urban vacant land to build new walkable neighborhoods from scratch (the airpark for example).

San Antonio is definitely a unique city because of its history, the Riverwalk, etc. It has a unique vibe that you only find there.

Oklahoma City is a young city and lacks the historical legacy most of its peers have. It also lacks any kind of geographical, climate, or natural advantage. There is one thing OKC has that IS unique, and that's the Native American heritage. Unfortunately, the derplahomans in the state government refuse to capitalize on that and finish the Native American Museum and Cultural Center. That would be an attraction that is truly unique and would draw people from places like Dallas and Kansas City because nowhere else has anything like it. Shame on the state legislature!

I really wasn't including san antonio in those cities (I had other cities in mind) but you could definitely make that argument we love growth and our freeway system is very comprehensive and there is tons of room to grow on the outskirts. However, as for the things you said, aside from the historical aspect, there is also the riverwalk as well as the hill country and the Hispanic and German heritage of the region that make San Antonio very unique.

But the native American history should be embraced.

Well, I was thinking Penn, Western, Memorial, SW 89th, May, and a few others. Obviously, there are a few portions of those roads that have areas where they should remain 4 lanes so to not discourage walkability, but the traffic is getting horrid on them and they are horrible roads in general. They have resurfaced a couple of them, but they're bland, boring, and ugly. I think just removing the utility lines would do wonders.

May Ave. by NW Expressway is such an awesome area of OKC. I love that area!You might take a look at what Warr Acres has done with MacArthur, between NW 63 and NW 50, for an example of what needs doing elsewhere in the metro area. I had occasion to drive that stretch Saturday evening and note the great improvements in the 63rd/Mac area plus the generous 4-lane SMOOTH paving. Compared to what this stretch was just 5 or 6 years ago, it's amazing. For that matter, compared to OKC's portion of MacArthur from NW Hiway up to Memorial Road, it's like night and day...

You might take a look at what Warr Acres has done with MacArthur, between NW 63 and NW 50, for an example of what needs doing elsewhere in the metro area. I had occasion to drive that stretch Saturday evening and note the great improvements in the 63rd/Mac area plus the generous 4-lane SMOOTH paving. Compared to what this stretch was just 5 or 6 years ago, it's amazing. For that matter, compared to OKC's portion of MacArthur from NW Hiway up to Memorial Road, it's like night and day...

Hi Jim, Haven't seen you around as much lately. Just wanted to say I've missed your presence - it's glaring when certain people are gone for any time at all. Good point about MacArthur, btw.

Why is it that roads in OKC proper seem to be in much worse shape than roads in suburban municipalities? Is it simply because the city's resources are stretched too thin?

You might take a look at what Warr Acres has done with MacArthur, between NW 63 and NW 50, for an example of what needs doing elsewhere in the metro area. I had occasion to drive that stretch Saturday evening and note the great improvements in the 63rd/Mac area plus the generous 4-lane SMOOTH paving. Compared to what this stretch was just 5 or 6 years ago, it's amazing. For that matter, compared to OKC's portion of MacArthur from NW Hiway up to Memorial Road, it's like night and day...I honestly haven't seen it
I'll drive out there when I get chance. Good to hear Warr Acres is revitalizing their city.

Why is it that roads in OKC proper seem to be in much worse shape than roads in suburban municipalities? Is it simply because the city's resources are stretched too thin?OKC is huge city and spread out. There are a ton of roads to maintain. It can get too much for city to keep on top of it especially with the low density and low tax revenue. OKC needs to fix its existing roads before it expands any further. The suburban sprawl coupled with the neglect it experienced would be my guess.

Just look how much P180 cost and how little area it covered. There isn't enough possible tax revenue to do anything close to that City wide.

Alright here's my stab in the dark: we're building amazing facilities for cycle track racers (velodrome, performance center, housing for athletes) and Oklahoma City becomes an official Olympic training venue for track racing.

Can't think of too many things that might make Dallas and KC jealous. They've got great residential options, so I don't think it's a high rise of any kind. I would love for it to be a transit project, but nothing we could do would top DART. If it is an entertainment development, I would think it would have something to do with bringing in an amenity that does not exist in those places and to a game-changing level as the Boathouse District development has been. That's how I arrived at track racing.

Just look how much P180 cost and how little area it covered. There isn't enough possible tax revenue to do anything close to that City wide.just curious... If. You had a billion to spend on roads.... Which areas would you do?

Why is it that roads in OKC proper seem to be in much worse shape than roads in suburban municipalities? Is it simply because the city's resources are stretched too thin?

I dunno man, but have you driven on some of the suburban roads? Edmond's are horrible. Honestly, the state of OKC roads and highways is about the best I remember ever.

I dunno man, but have you driven on some of the suburban roads? Edmond's are horrible. Honestly, the state of OKC roads and highways is about the best I remember ever.

Edmond's roads have their pros and cons. On the upside, there are quite a few roads that are cement (most in OKC are asphalt) and they are landscaped well with medians, double turn lanes, and street lights. The bad part about them is stop light placement is just awful.

Hi Jim, Haven't seen you around as much lately. Just wanted to say I've missed your presence - it's glaring when certain people are gone for any time at all. Good point about MacArthur, btw.I've been going round and round with cataract surgery since late March; postponed twice at the last minute, for a month each time, and finally completed last Thursday with great results. I've been reading the forums several times a day, but not spouting off as much as usual. When I don't have much to say, I don't say it...

This something BIG is coming, could it be so that we all just keep following along with the journalists at NewsOkay .com?

San Antonio is definitely a unique city because of its history, the Riverwalk, etc. It has a unique vibe that you only find there.

Oklahoma City is a young city and lacks the historical legacy most of its peers have. It also lacks any kind of geographical, climate, or natural advantage. There is one thing OKC has that IS unique, and that's the Native American heritage. Unfortunately, the derplahomans in the state government refuse to capitalize on that and finish the Native American Museum and Cultural Center. That would be an attraction that is truly unique and would draw people from places like Dallas and Kansas City because nowhere else has anything like it. Shame on the state legislature!


I guess you've never heard of New Mexico.... If OKC has one thing that is truly UNIQUE, it's the land run.

just curious... If. You had a billion to spend on roads.... Which areas would you do?

I would just keep working my way out from the P180 streets and throw in Britton and Capitol Hill.

You guys are now getting to one of my nerves that is the city roads and how the inner city gets screwed while the outer areas have beautiful shiny new roads and sidewalks.

You guys are now getting to one of my nerves that is the city roads and how the inner city gets screwed while the outer areas have beautiful shiny new roads and sidewalks.

I doubt the outer areas have beautiful shiny new roads and sidewalks. They are 4 laned so far in advance that by the time anyone gets around to driving on them the weather has already taken their toll.

There are a few nice roads in suburban OKC, but many of them, even in nice areas, are in such poor shape they are hard on your vehicle to even drive on. I am thinking specifically of roads like 122nd St as well as Memorial Rd in places. I think that major thoroughfares should be resurfaced with concrete at bare minimum. Some of them like Memorial Rd as well as Penn should also be widened to six lanes. Populated areas should have streetlights and possibly landscaped medians as well.

I know talk of improving the roads in suburban areas go against urbanist idealism, but the majority of the population of OKC still live in the suburbs and I think increasing the quality of life in suburbia is as important as building up the core.

I dunno man, but have you driven on some of the suburban roads? Edmond's are horrible. Honestly, the state of OKC roads and highways is about the best I remember ever.are you for real? Trolling?