^That's what I'm hoping for, but I haven't even looked to see if there's any space that isn't right up against apartments or an office. They could take out some parking for it perhaps. It's not hard to see why he picked that location, even if it would be controversial to put it smack dab in the middle of everything.

Pete's comments on foot traffic are spot on. It just won't work anywhere else right now. If you put it down on the river where people say it "belongs" then they would need to add more attractions or something to generate the traffic necessary to make it worth the $2.5+ million.

My preference would be somewhere in Lower Bricktown then.

The thing is, this attraction will generate and benefit from a lot of foot traffic. Do we want all that foot traffic being generated on the south part of the canal where there is no other businesses to take advantage of it?

The whole point of this -- as stated by the man who is willing to put up the millions -- was to bring more things to do in Bricktown and fill in an empty hole.

Everyone complains about the lack of things to do in Bricktown other than eating and drinking and then someone proposes something big and bold and people complain about it not fitting??

What is the downside here? I just don't see it. And I see tremendous benefit.

I agree Pete. Build a nice brick 2,000 sq foot buildings at the corner - which extends down to the canal level where the line can queue and souvenirs can be sold, have the boarding area in the center of the buildings so it can't be seen from the sidewalk, and then have the metal structure (maybe even painted Bricktown Green) rise from the top. If it does include an observation tower a pair of glass elevators going up the middle would even be cooler - or better yet, just have the glass elevators on top of ride itself so that the 'swingers' and elevator rider go up and down together. While the swings are making their revolutions at the top people can be loading and unloading from the elevators, at the bottom the loading and unloading of the swings and elevators would also occur at the same time.

The issue -- that seems to be eluding most -- is that people are drawn to Bricktown and the canal area, get something to eat and then walk around looking for something to do.

It is the *one* place in OKC where there is a healthy and steady amount of foot traffic year-round; tons of people milling around.

Everyone complains about lack of retail but that can't be forced; it will follow only when the district is more fully realized.


If there are concerns about the design or how it interacts with the street, that is easily addressed. But for the life of me I can't understand why people would see this as a negative.

There are a tons of cities that have Ferris wheels and carousels and observation towers and amusement rides in their urban core.

i agree pete. Build a nice brick 2,000 sq foot buildings at the corner - which extends down to the canal level where the line can queue and souvenirs can be sold, have the boarding area in the center of the buildings so it can't be seen from the sidewalk, and then have the metal structure (maybe even painted bricktown green) rise from the top. If it does include an observation tower a pair of glass elevators going up the middle would even be cooler - or better yet, just have the glass elevators on top of ride itself so that the 'swingers' and elevator rider go up and down together. While the swings are making their revolutions at the top people can be loading and unloading from the elevators, at the bottom the loading and unloading of the swings and elevators would also occur at the same time.

like!


the issue -- that seem to be eluding most -- is that people are drawn to bricktown and the canal area, get something to eat and then walk around looking for something to do.

It is the *one* place in okc where there is a healthy and steady amount of foot traffic year-round; tons of people milling around.

Everyone complains about lack of retail but that can't be forced; it will follow only when the district is more fully realized.


If there are concerns about the design or how it interacts with the street, that is easily addressed. But for the life of me i can't understand why people would see this as a negative.

There are a tons of cities that have ferris wheels and carousels and observation towers and amusement rides in their urban core.

bingo!

The issue -- that seems to be eluding most -- is that people are drawn to Bricktown and the canal area, get something to eat and then walk around looking for something to do.

It is the *one* place in OKC where there is a healthy and steady amount of foot traffic year-round; tons of people milling around.

Everyone complains about lack of retail but that can't be forced; it will follow only when the district is more fully realized.


If there are concerns about the design or how it interacts with the street, that is easily addressed. But for the life of me I can't understand why people would see this as a negative.

There are a tons of cities that have Ferris wheels and carousels and observation towers and amusement rides in their urban core.

Like!

My guess is that the vast majority of people who ride this (or just go to the observation deck) will do so at night. No one is going to go to the Boathouse District after dark - walking, biking, car or otherwise.

That would be amazing, to be able to ride this at night overlooking the city lights and the skyline. I absolutely can't believe the shortsightedness and lack of vision of everyone opposing this. So what if other cities don't have one in their core. They have ferris wheels and other attractions that contribute to the urbanity, not detract from it.

That would be amazing, to be able to ride this at night overlooking the city lights and the skyline. I absolutely can't believe the shortsightedness and lack of vision of everyone opposing this. So what if other cities don't have one in their core. They have ferris wheels and other attractions that contribute to the urbanity, not detract from it.

Back when a Ferris Wheel was first conceived for OKC only London had one. OKC was actually at the forefront of the trend. Then the one in OKC got delayed/canceled and now every city worth their salt has one or is building one and all of them dwarf anything be proposed in OKC. The Santa Monica Ferris Wheel is like a kiddy ride compared to the wheels in Seattle, Paris, Singapore, Las Vegas, London, Atlanta, etc.... so here we are once again at the head of the line with an idea and civic leaders want to wuss out. It actually ticks me off. If there is one thing I don't like - it is that it is only 200' tall.

This could also be easily added to the LED synchronized lights already installed at Devon Tower, the MG Crystal Bridge, Skydance Bridge and Chesapeake Arena.

Imagine how cool that would be at night!


I think we are getting ready to piss away a great opportunity here.

Pete you convinced me. I'm on board now. One of The strengths of Bricktown is its diversification, and this will only add to that. I think the biggest reason for the disapproval from the board is there is no renderings for our specific flyer. All the examples they showed really leave a bad taste in your mouth when trying to envision what it would look like & how it would fit in. With the right color scheme & incorporated materials I think it would work well.

It seems our leaders can't figure out how to create/allow diversity and interest, just uniformity...and they aren't even great at that.

They could easily include a sign on the top that said "Welcome to Bricktown" or something similar.

All types of things that could be done and this would serve as a beacon to draw in people from all over.

Pete you convinced me. I'm on board now. One of The strengths of Bricktown is its diversification, and this will only add to that. I think the biggest reason for the disapproval from the board is there is no renderings for our specific flyer. All the examples they showed really leave a bad taste in your mouth when trying to envision what it would look like & how it would fit in. With the right color scheme & incorporated materials I think it would work well.

Is there a possibility they will resubmit the request with a rendering of this specific flyer? I also agree that a specific rendering would go a lot farther than what was shown, which really don't fit.

Would the city have an issue with the ride extending out over Reno and Mickey Mantel? Not that it matters now since the Bricktown Design Committee has unofficially axed idea.

I have no problem with this type of activity in Bricktown. Other than eating and drinking, (and riding the water taxis, or course) the perception is that there really isn't much to do. This would be a valuable addition to the district. Those of you who know me know I’m all for family-oriented entertainment in urban districts.

My overarching concern is the aesthetics of the project. My preference would be for this project to be in Bricktown, but maybe located on the interior of a block so that the ground-level is screened by buildings. This is absolutely the most prime corner in Bricktown and any development proposed for this site should receive careful scrutiny.


I agree Pete. Build a nice brick 2,000 sq foot buildings at the corner - which extends down to the canal level where the line can queue and souvenirs can be sold, have the boarding area in the center of the buildings so it can't be seen from the sidewalk, and then have the metal structure (maybe even painted Bricktown Green) rise from the top. If it does include an observation tower a pair of glass elevators going up the middle would even be cooler - or better yet, just have the glass elevators on top of ride itself so that the 'swingers' and elevator rider go up and down together. While the swings are making their revolutions at the top people can be loading and unloading from the elevators, at the bottom the loading and unloading of the swings and elevators would also occur at the same time.

IF it was done this way I would absolutely get behind this. That would be fantastic, however not likely. My fear is that the end result would be an amusement park ride on a concrete pad surrounded by a fence. If we got lucky, it would be a brick wall. While I love the idea of this ride in Bricktown, I don’t love the idea of it sitting in a glorified dumpster enclosure on a prime piece of property. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Mr. Arthur’s t-shirt comment causes me some concern regarding the quality of this project. It is important that long-term development on sites like this be imbued with sense of permanence. While the Starflyer is very much a permanent structure, it gives off a carnival-like vibe that implies a certain transience. Therefore, it is critical that the ground level of this project communicates a long-term commitment to its site much like JTF has proposed. It wouldn't be hard to do this "right" in an urban design sense, but as we've seen time and again, there isn't much of a will to do so.

I do think the BUD was out-of-line in suggesting they would deny the development altogether solely based on use. They should have reminded the project developer of the design requirements necessary in Bricktown then waited to see what he would propose without prejudging the project.

^ That right there is my concern entirely. If this ends up looking like just another carnival ride, then no thanks. Built like Kerry is describing? Then hell yeah.

I have no problem with this type of activity in Bricktown. Other than eating and drinking, (and riding the water taxis, or course) the perception is that there really isn't much to do. This would be a valuable addition to the district. Those of you who know me know I’m all for family-oriented entertainment in urban districts.

My overarching concern is the aesthetics of the project. My preference would be for this project to be in Bricktown, but maybe located on the interior of a block so that the ground-level is screened by buildings. This is absolutely the most prime corner in Bricktown and any development proposed for this site should receive careful scrutiny.



IF it was done this way I would absolutely get behind this. That would be fantastic, however not likely. My fear is that the end result would be an amusement park ride on a concrete pad surrounded by a fence. If we got lucky, it would be a brick wall. While I love the idea of this ride in Bricktown, I don’t love the idea of it sitting in a glorified dumpster enclosure on a prime piece of property. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Mr. Arthur’s t-shirt comment causes me some concern regarding the quality of this project. It is important that long-term development on sites like this be imbued with sense of permanence. While the Starflyer is very much a permanent structure, it gives off a carnival-like vibe that implies a certain transience. Therefore, it is critical that the ground level of this project communicates a long-term commitment to its site much like JTF has proposed. It wouldn't be hard to do this "right" in an urban design sense, but as we've seen time and again, there isn't much of a will to do so.

I do think the BUD was out-of-line in suggesting they would deny the development altogether solely based on use. They should have reminded the project developer of the design requirements necessary in Bricktown then waited to see what he would propose without prejudging the project.

You said it better than I could have.

Okay, so it comes down to an issue of design, which is exactly the function of the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

This is a unique challenge but it seems to me the proper course of action would be for the committee to work with the proprietor to come up with possible solutions.

It is NOT their job to pass judgement on what a property is to be used for (this is addressed through zoning and other ordinances) no more than it is the job of the Planning Commission to impose restricted hours on Guyutes on some completely arbitrary basis.


These committees need to be reminded they are there to ASSIST not serve as some sort of policy-making body that looks for new ways to say "no". Their charter should be to find a "yes" that suits everyone involved.

OKC is trying very hard to move forward at an ever increasing pace and we have far too many bottlenecks and committees overstepping their bounds. We need to take care of these issues and soon.

I'm an out of towner, this appeals to me and my family of 4. I have gone to several ballgames at Bricktown and can see why they would want to get behind this. It's a trend in minor league right now to add rides, slash pads, whifflee ball fields and playground do to appeal to the entire family. Heck, Deist has a ferris wheel and carousel in Comerica.

If the structure was housed in a brick building like mentioned before it would help add to the attractiveness of the thing. Add a little eatery that served shaved Ice and such with a second level outdoor table area and some other small things and we are really looking at something nice.

The designed doesn't have to be carnival like at all. This pic of one in Europe has a very nice top and muted daytime colorhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Tivoli_Gardens_-_Himmelskibet.jpg

Okay, so it comes down to an issue of design, which is exactly the function of the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

This is a unique challenge but it seems to me the proper course of action would be for the committee to work with the proprietor to come up with possible solutions.

It is NOT their job to pass judgement on what a property is to be used for (this is addressed through zoning and other ordinances) no more than it is the job of the Planning Commission to impose restricted hours on Guyutes on some completely arbitrary basis.


These committees need to be reminded they are there to ASSIST not serve as some sort of policy-making body that looks for new ways to say "no". Their charter should be to find a "yes" that suits everyone involved.

OKC is trying very hard to move forward at an ever increasing pace and we have far too many bottlenecks and committees overstepping their bounds. We need to take care of these issues and soon.

Like like like

I had a meeting with someone yesterday and the topic of this ride came up. This person had just been to Copenhagen, and mentioned that the twin to this proposed ride is a recent addition to Tivoli Garden, which by the way was itself one of the inspirations for the Myriad Botanical Gardens. The ride in a Tivoli incidentally is also known as Star Flyer, and in this case is about 260 feet.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_r2gUihDX_BI/S-LVtVUtLQI/AAAAAAAAAi4/_JwiVhYqaGY/s1600/Day+122+(2nd+May)+Tivoli+Gardens,+Copenhagen.JPG

I had a meeting with someone yesterday and the topic of this ride came up. This person had just been to Copenhagen, and mentioned that the twin to this proposed ride is a recent addition to Tivoli Garden, which by the way was itself one of the inspirations for the Myriad Botanical Gardens. The ride in a Tivoli incidentally is also known as Star Flyer, and in this case is about 260 feet.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_r2gUihDX_BI/S-LVtVUtLQI/AAAAAAAAAi4/_JwiVhYqaGY/s1600/Day+122+(2nd+May)+Tivoli+Gardens,+Copenhagen.JPG

I have no idea how ANYBODY could see something like that as detracting from the district. That would be awesome in Bricktown.

Any city would be blessed to even have this proposed... really hope it gets built.

My guess is that the vast majority of people who ride this (or just go to the observation deck) will do so at night. No one is going to go to the Boathouse District after dark - walking, biking, car or otherwise.

I'm not saying this to advocate for any location but that statement is totally inaccurate, Kerry. You obviously didn't see the pics I posted from evening events a couple of weeks ago.

I'm going to contact the gentleman that made the proposal and let him know there is ample support, as long as this is done correctly.

Remember, just like with the Planning Commission, these design review committees don't have the final say.

Another petition may be in order.

The things I want proposed:

1.) Enclosed brick building at the base that offers more than just tickets (Ex, a restaurant, gift shop, bricktown information center : Remember, this will be the most visual focal point in all of bricktown & a gathering place for newcomers. Being able to find out what else there is to do in bricktown right off the bat will help the entire area. This will also help garner support from other establishments in the district. )
2.) Visible "Bricktown" signage at the top
3.) Colors that match the district. Green, brick colors
4.) Observation desk MUST be included. no "Maybes" or "coulds"
5.) Increase in height. If this is going to be "our thing" then it must be the biggest & the best. Think London Eye.

^Like

I must say, Pete, you have done an incredible job of reversing my opinion.

I think this is a good proposal if done correctly. Again, you are correct in this description of review committees: they do not dictate the use, but only the exterior design.

Here is a video of a StarFlyer installed in the middle of Manchester, England. Smack-dab in the urban core.

Look how cool this is:

eTKgxEhHaWg

And here is one installed in London:

http://www.eap-magazin.de/medien/716/original/48/StarFlyer-low.jpg

I got motion sickness and now I have to puke.

The Manchester Star Flyer lit at dusk.
http://i2.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article1764231.ece/alternates/s615/Star%20Flyer%20sunset.JPG

Another thing that comes to mind is the little West End Park in downtown Ft. Smith with it's ferris wheel, little carousel, railcar diner, and two story red bus shaved ice and snack stand. Rides were a buck a piece three weeks ago.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/c0.156.851.315/p851x315/406244_10151105818026321_683991089_n.jpg
http://www.fortsmith.org/!userfiles/JpBell%20Park%20Bus.jpg

I took a look at the installation in Manchester then compared to the proposed location in Bricktown.

Plenty of space but all that could be reasonably expected would be some sort of nice brick fence; not room for much else:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/starflyerbase.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/starflyerbasebt.jpg

Could it be built on top of a building? Obviously the beam would have to go all the way through. But as far as where people are loaded and such.

I support having oversight so crap is not built, but I think this is a good idea. I hope the guy who proposed this knows that he will have the public support.

Could it be built on top of a building? Obviously the beam would have to go all the way through. But as far as where people are loaded and such.

Excellent question and I believe that it could. This is another ride at Tivoli Gardens http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/552325_10151099864987021_196491697_n.jpg Notice how they went up with the loading platform allowing the queuing to take place underneath. The OKC sight seems longer in one respect while about as wide. Get rid of the outside queue area and that gives some space for added features along with the extra 20 ft the OKC sight has along the north side of that photo

The underneath queue
http://www.parkscout.de/fc/04/01/05/add854d28e572e6a-tivoli2.jpg

The things I want proposed:

1.) Enclosed brick building at the base that offers more than just tickets (Ex, a restaurant, gift shop, bricktown information center : Remember, this will be the most visual focal point in all of bricktown & a gathering place for newcomers. Being able to find out what else there is to do in bricktown right off the bat will help the entire area. This will also help garner support from other establishments in the district. )
2.) Visible "Bricktown" signage at the top
3.) Colors that match the district. Green, brick colors
4.) Observation desk MUST be included. no "Maybes" or "coulds"
5.) Increase in height. If this is going to be "our thing" then it must be the biggest & the best. Think London Eye.everything except the observation deck. I think something taller would be better for that, honestly

I'm going to contact the gentleman that made the proposal and let him know there is ample support, as long as this is done correctly.

Remember, just like with the Planning Commission, these design review committees don't have the final say.

Another petition may be in order.im on board

I've gone to Funtime's web page and there's not one that's currently both a swing and observation deck. There are other companies out there that will do two attractions on a tower, but not swings, mainly those drop rides. Someone posted about the Polercoaster, which is an observation tower with a rollercoaster wrapped around the tower. The proposed Orlando one is taller and at a much, much greater cost than this proposal. There was another proposal for one of those in Atlanta but it looks to have gone down the drain. The glass elevators going into the old Pyramid Arena in Memphis to the observation deck is around 300 ft. I believe.

I've gone to Funtime's web page and there's not one that's currently both a swing and observation deck.

They haven't built one that combines both yet, but like all ride equipment companies, they'll design whatever you pay them to design. This ride design seems to lend itself fairly easy to modifications, since the actual ride assembly fits around the tower and is simply lifted and lowered. All you have to do is increase the diameter of the tower to fit an elevator.

I mean, I'm sure it's a bit more complicated than that, but I certainly think they can do it if they are given the contract. I don't know whether or not this developer was really serious about pursuing that or not, but if the advisory committee was willing to work with him instead of shooting it down instantly maybe it's something that would make the overall project palatable.


Didn't know Manchester already had one. These things really are going to start popping up everywhere. Like I said earlier, give it 15 years and it'll be a passing fad by the time OKC finally installs a smaller, crappier version. :rolleyes:

Pete, do you plan on creating a petition as we did with Guyutes?

OKCtalk is becoming a powerful entity. Much more than just a voice, but it is increasingly growing in ability to influence change in a positive way by creating another system of checks and balances for local government.

I want to speak to Brandon Arthur and get his thoughts, then I will report back and see if there is something further we can do.

This is from Brandon Arthur's Twitter feed:

Brandon Arthur @BrandonArthur7 · Jul 11
The Starflyer will not be in Bricktown. I will be searching for a alternate location.

Wow.... well, I'm remaining optimistic here...... There are plenty of other places this can go.

There are other places it could go, but it won't have the same result, and I doubt he'll find anything that's profitable. I'm in bricktown right now typing this, and I'm more in favor of it than ever. All up the canal it's just bar after bar, and then you come to the entertainment portion with the arcade under construction, ball park, and the movie theatre on the other side. It really is the perfect location and would fit in great. Not much room right there for anything else of note anyway.

Pete, I hope you can convince him to locate this in Bricktown. And I think we'll show up to support.

It took me a few days, but I've come around in my support for this.

There are other places it could go, but it won't have the same result, and I doubt he'll find anything that's profitable. I'm in bricktown right now typing this, and I'm more in favor of it than ever. All up the canal it's just bar after bar, and then you come to the entertainment portion with the arcade under construction, ball park, and the movie theatre on the other side. It really is the perfect location and would fit in great. Not much room right there for anything else of note anyway.

Exactly.

And I truly believe that most -- including the Bricktown Design Review Committee -- are still trying to get their minds around this.


I just had a long and very interesting conversation with Brandon Arthur. This isn't dead yet.

More to come.

One bit of info I can share is that Mr. Arthur's proposal -- which was communicated to the committee -- included a brick wall at the base, with a brick kiosk and restrooms.

He emphasized it be be "classy" and "very nice", not some sort of temporary carnival ride.

He also communicated that he wanted to put a huge "Bricktown Flyer" sign on the top to help advertise the district.

I would want to see this "classy" design before changing my position. Do not like the idea of a carnival-looking ride being in every TNT shot from now on -- and you know it would. Hokey pokey Okie.

The more and more I think about this, the more I like the idea.

We need a festive vibe somewhere in the city. This could provide that. The district does not need to be dominated by that vibe, but in conplement.

I would want to see this "classy" design before changing my position. Do not like the idea of a carnival-looking ride being in every TNT shot from now on -- and you know it would. Hokey pokey Okie.duuuuuuude, did you not see the video of the one in England???

I'm with Soonerguru, it just screams comical to me. If there were any other location more perfect for it, I'd choose just west of the Bricktown Riverwalk Park.

At this location it would pull crowds from both Bricktown & the Oklahoma Riversports Complex AND it would put more value on the Co-op site, as well as our favorite site, the Lumber Yard.

One bit of info I can share is that Mr. Arthur's proposal -- which was communicated to the committee -- included a brick wall at the base, with a brick kiosk and restrooms.

He emphasized it be be "classy" and "very nice", not some sort of temporary carnival ride.

He also communicated that he wanted to put a huge "Bricktown Flyer" sign on the top to help advertise the district.

This is a fantastic addition. This would be a solid location. If it is done right, then it would be a landmark that we can all be proud of. If it's not done correctly, then it could be that "tall ugly thing sticking out of the ground". I'm 100% for a high profile landmark that is artistic and monumental for that location. If done correctly, then it will be that attraction that always has a line to it. If it is to be of smaller scale, then maybe move it to a different location....just west of the Bass Pro. ....either way, it should be a nice addition.

We can still have our "1,000 ft. Energy Tower" by the River.

This is a fantastic addition. This would be a solid location. If it is done right, then it would be a landmark that we can all be proud of. If it's not done correctly, then it could be that "tall ugly thing sticking out of the ground". I'm 100% for a high profile landmark that is artistic and monumental for that location. If done correctly, then it will be that attraction that always has a line to it. If it is to be of smaller scale, then maybe move it to a different location....just west of the Bass Pro. ....either way, it should be a nice addition.

We can still have our "1,000 ft. Energy Tower" by the River.I would love a 1,000ft Energy Tower, but it would be better if downtown, not by the river.

This guy has a "sort of" star flyer in his basement.'Star Trek' fan drops half a million dollars to turn his basement into the Enterprise - UPI.com (http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2014/07/11/Long-Island-Trekkie-spends-500000-to-remodel-his-basement-into-Enterprise-bridge/7341405090043/)

So is this completely dead? I thought I saw he was taking his design somewhere else nearby.

Last I talked to him he was confident of finding another site; I got the impression it would be in Lower Bricktown.

Then, he stopped returning my messages.

Pretty sure it's dead.


Ironic because the site he originally proposed is directly next to the mini golf site and Brickopolis, which would have provide great synergy and family fun in a small area along the canal.

Still think that is a great spot and don't see the issues, especially since it would be temporary.

I've heard second-hand from more than one person that while he's not actively pursuing it right now he hopes to revisit the idea at some point.

Last I talked to him he was confident of finding another site; I got the impression it would be in Lower Bricktown.

Then, he stopped returning my messages.

Pretty sure it's dead.


Ironic because the site he originally proposed is directly next to the mini golf site and Brickopolis, which would have provide great synergy and family fun in a small area along the canal.

Still think that is a great spot and don't see the issues, especially since it would be temporary.

Sounds like a fantastic development for people who hate real development.

Meanwhile this is one of those infamous "Four Corners" that refuse to develop in the heart of Bricktown that make me scratch my head every time...