bchris, they have a point that conservatives aren't anti-alcohol. A research study was released a few years ago that people who go to church are somewhere around 25% more likely to binge drink than those who don't. The problem plain and simple is the liquor lobby. Its a hugely profitable business and they can buy legislators very easily. Liquor taxes and markup are huge. A $20 handle of vodka costs the store well less than $10 to purchase. If you really want progress, start targeting these legislators voting down looser laws.

LandRunOkie is right, on both accounts. The lobby is strong

I had an entire response typed up, but I will simply say I was raised in the Independent Baptist movement. They are extremely legalistic, very political, and far more numerous than most people realize. There is one church in OKC that has probably 3,000 people on a given Sunday as well as operates its own school and Bible college. If you ask most people in this city if they've heard of that specific church they would probably say no.
And you think you can define the opinions of people in Oklahoma concerning alcohol sold on Sunday by its churches? In my world, churches are filled with all kinds of people and even back in the day when I attended a Baptist church (decades ago) this wasn't an issue even on the radar. Do you honestly think people sit around worried about the sin of selling alcohol on Sunday? If they could pass liquor by the drink decades ago - with the fear of drunks on the road after getting liquored up at the local Hairy Bears and running over pedestrians - why in the world do you think people decades later would be so conservative that they feared Sunday liquor stores on account of sin?

I would strongly caution against doing a Google image search for "Hairy Bears."

I know state officials wanted to keep brewer-run saloons, which had a reputation in other states as being houses of vice and violence, out of Oklahoma. Because of that, the laws are on the books today that prevent brewers from selling house-crafted beers over 3.2 ABV on premises. Go go any restaurant in Oklahoma that brews its own beer and it has to be 3.2. If it's higher, they have to sell it to a distributor and then buy it back.

You have some "what's" identified, but not the "why's", and so far haven't identified the right "who's". Knowing the sequences isn't the same as knowing why things happened, who was and is behind it, and how they have stayed in control.

As the say, follow the money. It's more about the money than the morals.

I would strongly caution against doing a Google image search for "Hairy Bears."

Aw man. Did you have to post that. Now I have to try it.

O.M.G. :banned2:

I do not understand a mindset that is actually offended that you might have to think ahead. Yes, it can be a tiny bit annoying but for it to go to the top of the list of bad things about the city either says this is a fabulous town, or that some people are incapable of planning ahead. Really, why is this such a big deal?

Why are so predictably a wet blanket about any opinion that even mildly differs with yours?

Wow... I don't understand why you would even comment that you don't care if they are open on Sundays or not. You're either for it or against it. It is that simple. More options is never a bad thing. I'm not going to type up something to justify why we should have them open on Sundays. If anyone here thinks they shouldn't, then speak up and let's debate that.... If you don't care or are going to post something that may sublimely point to you opposing them opening up on Sundays but not quite coming out and saying that, just don't say anything.

What do [I] not like about OKC and what do [I] think could be better?
Fairly non-specific thought tweeker . . .

Less "OldTymee" Good Ol' Boy Make a Buck Politics and more
(of what the most recent results of the evolution of that old paradigm to get stuff done has produced)

(I wish the Biltmore Hotel was surrounded by The Myriad Gardens. Yet that ain't gonna happen. =)

(btw: the so-called "Public Transportation" system of OKC actually does "pale in comparison" to what is offered in the shabbiest of tightly knit communities Up Nord (spec. ref. Minnesota) =)

I LOVE OKC. (don't take the non-sense above as serious)
(yet there still remain some opportuniites for improvement on the road (Boulevard or whatever) to Eden.

(I wish the Biltmore Hotel was surrounded by The Myriad Gardens. Yet that ain't gonna happen. =)
http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/images/Product/large/10205262.jpg





preen

By the label on the container (in the jpeg), I'm not sure if that prevents Gardens or Weeds.
Perhaps the "20% More"--as advertised-- could be traded in to remove that Architectual Eyesore some call Stage Center that is blocking progress in the real world? =)

All kidding aside: I just returned from a visit to A Major Metropolitan Urbanist Eden on the way to a smaller town an hour away with wide sidewalks and friendly people.

I find it very difficult to find a lot that I don't like about OKC.
In the overall scheme of things.

It stops weeds before they start.

Do you honestly think people sit around worried about the sin of selling alcohol on Sunday? If they could pass liquor by the drink decades ago - with the fear of drunks on the road after getting liquored up at the local Hairy Bears and running over pedestrians - why in the world do you think people decades later would be so conservative that they feared Sunday liquor stores on account of sin?

If we are talking about Independent Baptists, then yes, absolutely.

These aren't your run of the mill Southern Baptists. In fact, they see the Southern Baptist church, which coincidentally is more open to moderate drinking today than it has ever been, as liberal and apostate.

Why are so predictably a wet blanket about any opinion that even mildly differs with yours?

Plenty of people find the peevishness expressed over something so easily dealt with with an ounce of foresight comment worthy. The better question is why you think my motives are any different than anyone else's.

Wow... I don't understand why you would even comment that you don't care if they are open on Sundays or not. You're either for it or against it. It is that simple. More options is never a bad thing. I'm not going to type up something to justify why we should have them open on Sundays. If anyone here thinks they shouldn't, then speak up and let's debate that.... If you don't care or are going to post something that may sublimely point to you opposing them opening up on Sundays but not quite coming out and saying that, just don't say anything.

If you are talking to me, I don't think you actually read my post based on the response. Missed the part about retail folks having to cater to people who won't plan ahead? Sorry, I'm one of those people who refuses to go to stores on holidays and Sundays (except restaurants that get a regular Monday off)) because I know what it is like to be a low wage earner who has to miss birthdays and get togethers because their boss keeps the doors open to compete. If you haven't had a retail job that requires you to work nights, weekends, holidays and swingshifts while raising a family (and missing long weekends, ballgames, picnics, birthdays, family in town), you might not get how annoying it is to have to deal with people who think planning ahead is barbaric.

If they legalized liquor store sales on Sunday, it would still be each store owner's choice whether they opened that day would it not? Giving them a day off isn't really an excuse to keep the ban in place. Liquor stores in this state must be sole proprietorships, so if they want a day off and aren't worried about loss of sales, they can still be closed Sunday.

If they legalized liquor store sales on Sunday, it would still be each store owner's choice whether they opened that day would it not? Giving them a day off isn't really an excuse to keep the ban in place. Liquor stores in this state must be sole proprietorships, so if they want a day off and aren't worried about loss of sales, they can still be closed Sunday.

In this industry opening on Sunday won't increase sales by much. It will mostly steal sales from the other 6 days.

If they legalized liquor store sales on Sunday, it would still be each store owner's choice whether they opened that day would it not? Giving them a day off isn't really an excuse to keep the ban in place. Liquor stores in this state must be sole proprietorships, so if they want a day off and aren't worried about loss of sales, they can still be closed Sunday.
If they closed on Sunday and others opened, they'd be out of business in no time flat. Lots of competition. No greater sales, likely - just higher overhead and their employees would have crappier schedules - and likely lower wages since there probably wouldn't be much extra sales to cover the extra overhead.

If they closed on Sunday and others opened, they'd be out of business in no time flat. Lots of competition. No greater sales, likely - just higher overhead and their employees would have crappier schedules - and likely lower wages since there probably wouldn't be much extra sales to cover the extra overhead.

Chick Fil-A manages to be closed Sunday and they do just fine business-wise. I doubt Sunday sales would make up a large enough percentage of alcohol sales to really make or break a store unless its a special event like the superbowl.

if you are a wine drinker you can just stop in to Urban wine works and pick up a bottle.. even a chilled bottle on a sunday on your way to the park.. I Love that this is now possible!

I'm not sure what this has to do with what one doesn't like about Oklahoma City, but since the theme drifted over into liquor sales, I noticed that every convenience store and travel stop in Iowa and Missouri had liquor for sale. Apparently even on Sundays and Holidays.

What I don't like about OKC is the gouging on parking fees.

Canal Park (in Duluth--a place that is sort of like Bricktown x Three plus Lake Superior and a nifty Aerial Lift Bridge for the occasional passing ore freighter) actually has free parking lots for patrons of various restaurants and hotels plus really cheap public parking lots. We only paid $2.50 to park in a public lot on the other side of the freeway from Canal Park to visit a noted local museum. When the lady taking the money said, "That will be $2.50." I almost choked. She said, "What's the matter?" I said, "I'm so used to being gouged for parking that I was taken aback by the reasonableness of the amount you mentioned." I always talk real bookish like that when I'm in a state of shock, plus we had just left a museum so . . .

I'm amazed at how often the strong or "real" beer discussion comes up with comparisons to, for instance, Texas. There is really very little difference between in alcohol content of the major brands between the two states. Strong Bud Light for instance is 4.2% ABV, not 6%. Convert that to ABW as Oklahoma measures alcohol and you get 3.3%. That's only .1% stronger than Oklahoma 3.3% beer.

Here's a link to a Channel 9 news story that backs this up.
Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/13482397/stronger-beer-in-texas-is-a-drinking-delusion)

Chick Fil-A manages to be closed Sunday and they do just fine business-wise. I doubt Sunday sales would make up a large enough percentage of alcohol sales to really make or break a store unless its a special event like the superbowl.

Because, after all, Chick fil a doesn't offer a specific product and have a loyal client base that prefers them over McDonalds. Imo, you are comparing apples to oranges. You can get the exact same product at any liquor store because they are just an outlet.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what one doesn't like about Oklahoma City, but since the theme drifted over into liquor sales, I noticed that every convenience store and travel stop in Iowa and Missouri had liquor for sale. Apparently even on Sundays and Holidays.

What I don't like about OKC is the gouging on parking fees.

Canal Park (in Duluth--a place that is sort of like Bricktown x Three plus Lake Superior and a nifty Aerial Lift Bridge for the occasional passing ore freighter) actually has free parking lots for patrons of various restaurants and hotels plus really cheap public parking lots. We only paid $2.50 to park in a public lot on the other side of the freeway to visit a noted local museum. When the lady taking the money said, "That will be $2.50." I almost choked. She said, "What's the matter?" I said, "I'm so used to being gouged for parking that I was taken aback by the reasonableness of the amount you mentioned." I always talk real bookish like that when I'm in a state of shock, plus we had just left a museum so . . .
Funny... Coming from the East Coast I find it hilarious that someone would claim they were gouged on parking here. A consistent $5 lot in Bricktown for all day parking is gouging now? Ha. I don't consider the people of Oklahoma to be entitled people in general but I may have to re-assess when it comes to parking lol.

I'm amazed at how often the strong or "real" beer discussion comes up with comparisons to, for instance, Texas. There is really very little difference between in alcohol content of the major brands between the two states. Strong Bud Light for instance is 4.2% ABV, not 6%. Convert that to ABW as Oklahoma measures alcohol and you get 3.3%. That's only .1% stronger than Oklahoma 3.3% beer.

Here's a link to a Channel 9 news story that backs this up.
Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/13482397/stronger-beer-in-texas-is-a-drinking-delusion)

Get outta here with your fancy "facts" and all. Don't you realize this is the internet?!?!

In all seriousness though, I'm glad someone else pointed this out.

Funny... Coming from the East Coast I find it hilarious that someone would claim they were gouged on parking here. A consistent $5 lot in Bricktown for all day parking is gouging now? Ha. I don't consider the people of Oklahoma to be entitled people in general but I may have to re-assess when it comes to parking lol.

Not to mention we are comparing OKC to Duluth MN...not the most happening place.

Because, after all, Chick fil a doesn't offer a specific product and have a loyal client base that prefers them over McDonalds. Imo, you are comparing apples to oranges. You can get the exact same product at any liquor store because they are just an outlet.

I would bet that the Cain's Chicken right across the street from the nearest Chick-fil-a up by The Intersection from Hell (Penn and Hefner) loves the policy that Chick-fil-a Corporate has chosen to follow (at the direction of God). . .

Not to mention we are comparing OKC to Duluth MN...not the most happening place.

If you are referring to Duluth, you obviously have never actually been there.
(p.s. I had the same opinion right up until my first visit to the place maybe ten years ago. It ain't what you think it is.
sort of like most folks' mental knee-jerk reaction to the geographical phrase "Oklahoma City" . . .
the land that I love. except for the parking fees. =)

To LocoAko: Ain't the East Coast a great place to be "FROM"?

For Clarification: Duluth, in the winter, has to define a non-happening place that really sucks like a frozen tick from hell. I've only been there in the warmer months. It is a happening place. I heard stories about how bad last winter was up there. They say that rogue icebergs that lingered until May caused significant damage to the beachfront hotels that line the shores of Lake Michigan.

I'm amazed at how often the strong or "real" beer discussion comes up with comparisons to, for instance, Texas. There is really very little difference between in alcohol content of the major brands between the two states. Strong Bud Light for instance is 4.2% ABV, not 6%. Convert that to ABW as Oklahoma measures alcohol and you get 3.3%. That's only .1% stronger than Oklahoma 3.3% beer.

Here's a link to a Channel 9 news story that backs this up.
Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/13482397/stronger-beer-in-texas-is-a-drinking-delusion)

That may be true if you are drinking cheap American light beer which is watered down to begin with. However, there is a huge difference in taste when comparing real full-flavored beers bought at a liquor store with their 3.2 counterpart bought at a grocery store. Compare beers like Blue Moon, Dos Equis, and Shiner. The 3.2 version tastes very watery compared to the real version. I also get horrible hangovers from 3.2 beer. I rarely get them when drinking real beer.

That may be true if you are drinking cheap American light beer which is watered down to begin with. However, there is a huge difference in taste when comparing real full-flavored beers brought at a liquor store with their 3.2 counterpart bought at a grocery store. Compare beers like Blue Moon, Dos Equis, and Shiner. The 3.2 version tastes very watery compared to the real version. I also get horrible hangovers from 3.2 beer. I rarely get them when drinking real beer.

In all honesty, I can't really taste a big difference between "Package Store" Dos Equis or Shiner and "Grocery Store" Dos Equis or Shiner. This is probably why I generally don't buy either of those at a "Package Store." I opt, instead for something along the lines of Smithwick's, Sam Adams or Peretti Dublo Malto. I do, however, mourn the passing of OM (Old Milwaukee, The Hindu Brew of Choice) as a fine lawnmowing beer for the Oklahoma City market. Thankfully, Milwaukee's Best is still available at grocery stores to fill the vacuum.

Dang. This reminds me that I need to mow the lawn and vacuum out the rental car.

That may be true if you are drinking cheap American light beer which is watered down to begin with. However, there is a huge difference in taste when comparing real full-flavored beers bought at a liquor store with their 3.2 counterpart bought at a grocery store. Compare beers like Blue Moon, Dos Equis, and Shiner. The 3.2 version tastes very watery compared to the real version. I also get horrible hangovers from 3.2 beer. I rarely get them when drinking real beer.Still not much difference except Blue Moon, it's 4.3% ABW vs. 3.2%. Strong Dos Equis is 3.8% ABW and Shiner is 3.3% ABW.

Perhaps we could start referring to Grocery Store "beer" as Placebobevo?
(it's a combination of Placebo and Bevo) (sorry, old fogy joke with a vague sense of historical humor)
What do you think "Bevo" on the famous "Milk Bottle Building" on Classen stands for?

Note to self: Don't ever visit another historical museum in the chief, non-happening, port on the Great Lakes ever ag'in.

Parking is at a premium in Non-Happening Duluth.
OKC needs more Shipping Museums
8503

We might have a cheap version of a SkyDancer Bridge,
but we don't have a working Aerial Lift Bridge.
It almost makes we want to say something good about Stage Center
but I won't.
8504

We need more Tex-Mex Patio Dining.
With a view of Lake Superior.
8505

Perhaps we could start referring to Grocery Store "beer" as Placebobevo?
(it's a combination of Placebo and Bevo) (sorry, old fogy joke with a vague sense of historical humor)
What do you think "Bevo" on the famous "Milk Bottle Building" on Classen stands for?

Note to self: Don't ever visit another historical museum in the chief, non-happening, port on the Great Lakes ever ag'in.

I have wondered if it is just placebo, but it really does taste more watered down. I also can drink three liquor store beers and be pretty tipsy, but if I drink three grocery store beers, I'll just have a slight buzz. If I keep drinking, i'll just end up with a headache and a bad hangover the next morning.

I have wondered if it is just placebo, but it really does taste more watered down. I also can drink three liquor store beers and be pretty tipsy, but if I drink three grocery store beers, I'll just have a slight buzz. If I keep drinking, i'll just end up with a headache and a bad hangover the next morning.

I've only had three hangovers in my life and maybe twice as many headaches.
There could be a simple solution to the first part of that statement/complaint . . .
yet, somehow, it eludes me. =)

Maybe if OKC had a "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" center it would be even better than it is now.
(Oh! And cooler temperatures, fewer tornadoes and not so many earthquakes. =)

Conservatism is so often equated with anti intellectualism. It's a given - just ask them the ones opposed to them.

What I've found is that there is, indeed, many conservatives who see the world in simple terms. They don't make it complicated. They don't feel sadness at the lack of sidewalks or that liquor stores are closed on Sunday. If they notice such things at all, they make a Saturday liquor store trip and never look back. Most of them are darn solid on decision making.

The progressives are consumed with first world problems and seem genuinely miserable most of the time. They call it being intellectual but in the absence of true big intellect and a real joy in ideas, most can't pull it off.

Knowing how to actually think is far more important than what you think actually think about.

An interesting way to interpret what you wrote is that conservatives aren't concerned with anything except what immediately affects them and don't see any need to change anything, and progressives see problems that are preventing progress (as it were) and would like to fix them.

I was offered 6. Bud on tap at Texas Roadhouse last Friday night.

An interesting way to interpret what you wrote is that conservatives aren't concerned with anything except what immediately affects them and don't see any need to change anything, and progressives see problems that are preventing progress (as it were) and would like to fix them.

And everyone just needs to live with what progressives determine progress to be in their eyes.

And everyone just needs to live with what progressives determine progress to be in their eyes.

It's no different than extreme conservatives wanting to force society back to the pristine 1950s through legislation (which wouldn't work). There are idealists on both sides of the political spectrum.

My 91 year old mom always quotes, 'If you're bored, then your boring, so get up off your duff and do something'. I think a lot of the complaining here comes from this scenario. Don't wait for something cool to happen, do what you can to make it happen. rant off.
Your mom rocks!!

It's no different than extreme conservatives wanting to force society back to the pristine 1950s through legislation (which wouldn't work). There are idealists on both sides of the political spectrum.

So progressives are no different than extreme conservatives. Good to know.

I don't like this . . .

The six states where you can?t buy alcohol today - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/07/04/the-six-states-where-you-cant-buy-alcohol-today/)
I was wondering why the liquor stores were closed in Talequah this past Friday....ghetto.

If you are talking to me, I don't think you actually read my post based on the response. Missed the part about retail folks having to cater to people who won't plan ahead? Sorry, I'm one of those people who refuses to go to stores on holidays and Sundays (except restaurants that get a regular Monday off)) because I know what it is like to be a low wage earner who has to miss birthdays and get togethers because their boss keeps the doors open to compete. If you haven't had a retail job that requires you to work nights, weekends, holidays and swingshifts while raising a family (and missing long weekends, ballgames, picnics, birthdays, family in town), you might not get how annoying it is to have to deal with people who think planning ahead is barbaric.not you in particular....

I just meant I don't understand why anyone would be against them opening up on Sundays and I'm not sure whether people like JGL are opposed to it or just saying you can plan ahead. Whenever someone says that, it almost comes off as opposing it, but doesn't help the cause.

I will agree with you about the holidays. If my plans ever succeed and I have my businesses, I will have them closed on holidays. I am against that.

I'm not opposed to any business opening or closing or selling or stopping selling anything or any time they choose or are required to by law. As long as I know what they do and when they do it, I can plan around it with little to no effort on my part. Apparently it's a huge ordeal for some. It's like if I want breakfast at McDonalds, I know have to get there by 10:30, 11:00 at some locations. If they kept selling breakfast till noon it would just be a change, not necessarily progress. It's hard for me to call liquor stores opening on Sundays when they were previously closed progress. It would just be a change. I guess to me just because something changes doesn't equate to me as progress. This all started by saying them being closed on Sundays and Holidays is somehow keeping Oklahoma from progressing.

I'm not opposed to any business opening or closing or selling or stopping selling anything or any time they choose or are required to by law. As long as I know what they do and when they do it, I can plan around it with little to no effort on my part. Apparently it's a huge ordeal for some. It's like if I want breakfast at McDonalds, I know have to get there by 10:30, 11:00 at some locations. If they kept selling breakfast till noon it would just be a change, not necessarily progress. It's hard for me to call liquor stores opening on Sundays when they were previously closed progress. It would just be a change. I guess to me just because something changes doesn't equate to me as progress. This all started by saying them being closed on Sundays and Holidays is somehow keeping Oklahoma from progressing.

It would be a completely different thing if there was a law that banned McDonalds from selling Breakfast after 10:30. There isn't. It's a business decision that McDonalds has made to stop selling at that time. Overturning such a law would indeed be progress because it would be giving more freedom to the business owner and the consumer.

You would think as a conservative you would want business owners and consumers to be able to make their own decisions.

As a consumer I just need to know when they are open and closed. I don't inject politics into every aspect of life.

I'm not opposed to any business opening or closing or selling or stopping selling anything or any time they choose or are required to by law. As long as I know what they do and when they do it, I can plan around it with little to no effort on my part. Apparently it's a huge ordeal for some. It's like if I want breakfast at McDonalds, I know have to get there by 10:30, 11:00 at some locations. If they kept selling breakfast till noon it would just be a change, not necessarily progress. It's hard for me to call liquor stores opening on Sundays when they were previously closed progress. It would just be a change. I guess to me just because something changes doesn't equate to me as progress. This all started by saying them being closed on Sundays and Holidays is somehow keeping Oklahoma from progressing.man... it isn't a huuuuge deal to me. It is the simple fact that I believe we should a little more freedom as to when and when we can't buy liquor, which would be buying liquor whenever the business wants to sell it. I personally don't drink, but I believe we should have the option to buy it on Sundays. If a business is open on holidays, so be it. It is their choice; same thing with liquor stores and grocers.

Just because I advocate liquor stores being open on Sundays and being able to buy hard liquor in grocery stores, doesn't mean it is a huge deal, it's just something I want to happen and I'm willing to spend my energy to make it so.

Really, the only ones who are making a big deal out of it are the ones that either don't want it to happen or people like you, who say it isn't a big deal, ironically enough.

An interesting way to interpret what you wrote is that conservatives aren't concerned with anything except what immediately affects them and don't see any need to change anything, and progressives see problems that are preventing progress (as it were) and would like to fix them.

I have the greatest respect for people genuinely concerned and informed on "big picture" items. They are interesting to debate, you can learn from them, they have thought things through, and they typically enjoy the back and forth that accompanies being "intellectual."

What the progressives have done - in part, I expect from social media - is inflate the notion that they are somehow a bit more intellectually highbrow than their conservative cousins. They fancy themselves "intellectual" and progressive because they have an opinion on big picture items. Unfortunately, an opinion is not the same thing as a good understanding and it certainly doesn't impart the hallmark of an intellectual - ie, someone who delights in ideas. Most of them are just opinionated and want to shame and shout down anyone who doesn't share their opinions. I rarely see any of them do much for progress other than spout platitudes. The left doesn't measure a good policy by its results. It is measured by its stated intentions which makes the conservatives nuts. There is a value to living in the real world when it comes to ordering other people's lives that is lost on the left.

A true intellectual is a delight. A wanna be is a crashing bore and it is much more interesting to speak to someone not trying to be something they aren't. I've known at least as many conservative intellectuals as progressive. The self flattery of the left is never hidden under a bucket, sadly.

man... it isn't a huuuuge deal to me. It is the simple fact that I believe we should a little more freedom as to when and when we can't buy liquor, which would be buying liquor whenever the business wants to sell it. I personally don't drink, but I believe we should have the option to buy it on Sundays. If a business is open on holidays, so be it. It is their choice; same thing with liquor stores and grocers.

Just because I advocate liquor stores being open on Sundays and being able to buy hard liquor in grocery stores, doesn't mean it is a huge deal, it's just something I want to happen and I'm willing to spend my energy to make it so.

Really, the only ones who are making a big deal out of it are the ones that either don't want it to happen or people like you, who say it isn't a big deal, ironically enough.

This is what it is about. Liquor stores would be open on Sundays if the law allowed.

I do think there is some serious liquor store lobbying going on to keep it out of grocery stores but the issues are different.

I think in the next 10 years we will have wine and beer at grocery stores and more lax liquor store hours.

As a consumer I just need to know when they are open and closed. I don't inject politics into every aspect of life.What are you talking about? How can this be changed without going into politics?

As for you, knowing when they are open and closed, I'm not sure why you are asking that. Pretty much any business will have their hours posted on their website, phone, or posted on the actual building.

It would be a completely different thing if there was a law that banned McDonalds from selling Breakfast after 10:30. There isn't. It's a business decision that McDonalds has made to stop selling at that time. Overturning such a law would indeed be progress because it would be giving more freedom to the business owner and the consumer.

You would think as a conservative you would want business owners and consumers to be able to make their own decisions.

I agree about the law making the call but I strongly suspect the liquor store owners love this law because it helps them keep costs down, get the day off and still remain competitive.

This is what it is about. Liquor stores would be open on Sundays if the law allowed.

I do think there is some serious liquor store lobbying going on to keep it out of grocery stores but the issues are different.

I think in the next 10 years we will have wine and beer at grocery stores and more lax liquor store hours.Yeah, the only thing I would see the businesses opposing is liquor sales in grocery stores, but I can understand that. I still want it in grocers though.

I think in the next 10 years we will have wine and beer at grocery stores and more lax liquor store hours.

You can probably look at the history of this and find a thread from 2004 that said the exact same thing. The truth is there isn't going to be any change until a corporation with some big money can influence the state to do something about it. In this state, money and corporations are what talk. Costco is the kind of business that could accomplish it. Hopefully they will increase their Oklahoma presence with an eventual OKC location and help influence positive change in the states' liquor laws. At bare minimum, there could be a compromise like in Colorado where a select number of locations of every chain could sell strong beer/wine and the rest would remain under the current laws.

You are parroting stuff without anything to back it up. The whole alcohol is a sin is nuts, these days. Even the generation that came before mine was blowing off that mentality. I personally don't even know anyone who thinks like that, including my 90 year old father in law. I know they're out there but their influence is non existent.
Extreme conservatives used to be more about demanding a moral norm but in addition to changing attitudes than began forty years ago, the puritans have been shoved aside by progressives who are the ones with strong opinions about what's right and wrong, zero tolerance for traditional religion or lifestyle, zilch self introspection and a fixation on "big" issues and trivial, with little concern for real world moral quandries everyone faces on a daily basis. I wish they'd notice the many ways your average conservative Joe tries to be a good person, balance the things life throws at him, worries about his job, his kids, his neighbors, etc. instead, these feckless narratives paint them into puritans.

So the 24, or so, counties in Oklahoma that still ban liquor by the drink are nuts?

I do not understand a mindset that is actually offended that you might have to think ahead. Yes, it can be a tiny bit annoying but for it to go to the top of the list of bad things about the city either says this is a fabulous town, or that some people are incapable of planning ahead. Really, why is this such a big deal?

Well, I certainly understand full well what the conservatives mindset is about. It quite clearly means to be resistant to change and defend keeping the status quo.

In this industry opening on Sunday won't increase sales by much. It will mostly steal sales from the other 6 days.

Still, I don't have a problem with granting the liquor store owner the freedom to determine if opening on Sunday is a good sales plan.

Chick Fil-A manages to be closed Sunday and they do just fine business-wise. I doubt Sunday sales would make up a large enough percentage of alcohol sales to really make or break a store unless its a special event like the superbowl.

And Kentucky Fried Chicken, which opens on Sunday, recently gave up its position of being no. 1 seller of chicken to Chick Fil-A.

So the 24, or so, counties in Oklahoma that still ban liquor by the drink are nuts?

Kind of a jump, wouldn't you think?

Well, I certainly understand full well what the conservatives mindset is about. It quite clearly means to be resistant to change and defend keeping the status quo.
Well, it probably means that needing to shop on Saturday instead of having the option of shopping on Sunday isn't deemed some sort of tragedy or cause to feel like a victim. There are worse things than not getting hysterical at the lack of humanity evidenced by apathy on the subject. I can't recall any conservative I know in real life particularly concerned the law will change or not change. Last I checked, there was no big groundswell of Conservative soldiers trying to block this. Pretending this is even a deal to the right, much less blaming them for being backwards or - gasp! - Christian - is dumb. Sure, there is always someone they'll stick a mic in front of but for most conservatives, it ain't broke. There are plenty of bigger issues. The implication that that makes them less progressive or stuck in their ways is just a progressive hammer looking for a conservative nail.

As far as the car dealers not being open on Sunday, I am against that to. One could argue I am biased on that, but whatever. The government should not be regulating who can be open when.

I believe a poster on here said at one point or another, the reasoning behind that was car dealers shouldn't be open on a day of worship; is that true?