An application has been submitted to the Bricktown Design Review Committee to construct a 5-story, 126 room SpringHill Suites on the southeast corner of Sheridan and Byers in eastern Bricktown.

This is the same owner and architect that last year proposed the controversial Deep Deuce SpringHill Suites (follow link) that was proposed just a few blocks away. That application was ultimately withdrawn due to concerns by neighbors and the design review committee.

This project will be brick on the first four levels and synthetic stucco on the top, 5th level. It will also feature an bar, breakfast area, indoor pool, fitness area and meeting rooms. While it's a bit difficult to discern from the renderings below, above the 1st floor the structure will be a u-shape facing north along Sheridan Avenue.

The applicant also owns the parcel directly east of this and has stated he hopes to construct another hotel on that site as well. The project site is directly south of the proposed Steelyard apartment complex, which will also feature some retail and a Hyatt Place hotel.

Along with the other recently completed and proposed hotels in the downtown area, this new facility would bring the total room count to 3,666 in 18 separate properties. See our Downtown Hotel Summary for complete details and links.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springbt1.jpg
Brickopolis (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Brickopolis) * Bricktown Events Center * Bricktown Towers * Bricktown Shakeup (under contract) * Candy Factory * Hilton Garden Inn * Holiday Inn Express * Hyatt Place * Karchmer Garage * Kd's Restaurant * Mideke Building * The Plow * Staybridge Suites * Steelyard (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Steelyard)


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8506d1404752758-bricktown-springhill-suites-springnew1.jpg

I don't understand why they always put stucco on the top floor. Why not brick all the way up?

This guy must hire the cheapest architect money can buy. These renderings will not pass design review. This is pathetic. Just because its brick he thinks it is good.

I don't understand why they always put stucco on the top floor. Why not brick all the way up?

Holiday Inn Express used brick to the top.

I believe the BT design standards require a certain percentage of brick; developers often use only the percent required because EIFS is cheaper.

I hope this doesn't pass review. There should be no U shape facing Sheridan. Needs to fully face that street.

Reading the project description and justification above has my wondering, how can forcing the building to be built all the way to the sidewalk cause the price to go up? Back when I was a City Planner it was the landscaping and parking requirements that prevented the project from being viable. Most developers wanted to use as much of their lot as possible for revenue generation. As for the EIFS, they spelled it out pretty well; not using it would be in conflict with the design character established by previous projects (i.e. the hotels next door).

Alas, I don't know why laying this stuff out on the ground is so darn hard so let me explain to the developer once again: street-tree-sidewalk-building. It is just that darn simple. Stop putting the landscape between the sidewalk and the building - THIS ISN'T SUBURBIA!

Holiday Inn Express used brick to the top.

I believe the BT design standards require a certain percentage of brick; developers often use only the percent required because EIFS is cheaper.

Actually, the BT design standards have NO minimum brick requirement. Odd, eh? http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/bricktown_ud/documents/BTC%20HANDOUT%20January%205%202013.pdf See pages 24 and 25 for the guidelines...

K. Design Guidelines for Certificates of Approval for BC Zoned Properties
The following design guidelines are advisory and serve as a reference for all parties involved in the design review process. They do not constitute regulations. The Bricktown Urban Design Committee shall be guided by these guidelines:
(1) The setbacks for new buildings and additions to buildings should be in keeping with other buildings on the block. Normally, new buildings should be located on the front and side property lines. Where new buildings are not situated on the front and/or side property lines, the setback area should be designed and landscaped so as to complement the existing facilities within the core area. The historic character and texture of the area is best served through the observance of platted building property lines.
(2) Brick building facades, preferably varying shades of red brick, are an established and a critical characteristic of the district’s core. New and renovated facades should enhance or complement this characteristic. Innovative design and creative use of building materials, such as glass, concrete and architectural metals are encouraged. Mirrored glass and vinyl siding are discouraged.
(3) Buildings should have the appearance of a flat roof from the ground, and pitched roofs should be hidden by parapets. Roofs with other appearances should be closely reviewed for the district’s architectural improvement and for design impact on the district and adjacent structures.
(4) Window alignment and type should be compatible with adjacent buildings.
...

I don't not like it. Without more detail, I can see that it generally fits the historical pattern of an old brick warehouse district. This area was never ornamental; it was an industrial and warehouse area. This could be considered in keeping with the historical appearance of the area, excepting the bowed section in the middle. And, since historic preservationists prefer differentiation, the bowed section could be considered appropriate because it presents a visible clue that this is new.

I do, however, agree that the EIFS is silly if you're already bricking 4/5 floors. Just do it all.

Another possible reason for using EIFS is to break up big, rectangular surfaces and provide some color and interest.

Certainly, signage stands out more against the lighter colors than it would on brick.

Springhill Suites Project Revived for Bricktown | News OK (http://newsok.com/springhill-suites-project-revived-for-bricktown/article/4922768)

^

Right on cue!

Another possible reason for using EIFS is to break up big, rectangular surfaces and provide some color and interest.

Certainly, signage stands out more against the lighter colors than it would on brick.

So are we talking about brightly colored EIFS?

^

Right on cue!

...easy there...

So are we talking about brightly colored EIFS?

I'm sure it will be beige-ish which is a lot better background for brightly-colored signs.

A bit blah. These hotels are all starting to look the same. Maybe I'm just taking it for granted there's so much hotel construction in that area, but even the Holiday Inn Express was able to "jazz it up" a bit.

Is it just me or is there no sidewalk in front of the hotel?

Wow, another cheap hotel in Bricktown, I can't wait!

I'm sure it will be beige-ish which is a lot better background for brightly-colored signs.

They should do a blade sign if they want to project class.

Apologies everyone for the double post

This struck me as a bit odd…in the description it states:


It will also be provided with a Meeting room, an Indoor Swimming Pool and other Brand elements like Breakfast areas and guest rooms.

I am glad that Marriott hotels have additional amenities that are standard with their brand, but shouldn't all hotels have guest rooms?

Glad to see you back, Larry!

I don't understand why they always put stucco on the top floor. Why not brick all the way up?

Originally this building technique utilized a higher-grade material like limestone. When brick gets over a certain number of stories using ONLY brick can make a building look very heavy and monolithic. So architects added the cast stone to lighten things visually. Here is an example from right here at home:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GcCDVZCatRo/T0NB0FWm3jI/AAAAAAAACvM/rFcfozqpXqg/s640/Skirvin+Hotel.jpg

And here is what a building can look like without it (NYC):

http://www.rew-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/stuyTown2.jpg

However, somewhere along the way, builders discovered that substituting EIFS for the cast stone or brick actually saved a bunch of money too, so they fully embrace the design for economic reasons, though it began for aesthetic ones.

^

Right on cue!

Yep. I'm able to see a permit ap, get info from the city on the same schedule you do. There's nothing special accomplished here Pete. You're scrapping the city's website. So am I.

Yep. I'm able to see a permit ap, get info from the city on the same schedule you do. There's nothing special accomplished here Pete. You're scrapping the city's website. So am I.

:Smiley236

Originally this building technique utilized a higher-grade material like limestone. When brick gets over a certain number of stories using ONLY brick can make a building look very heavy and monolithic. So architects added the cast stone to lighten things visually. Here is an example from right here at home:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GcCDVZCatRo/T0NB0FWm3jI/AAAAAAAACvM/rFcfozqpXqg/s640/Skirvin+Hotel.jpg






Interesting. Did the Skirvin ever actually look like that? There are cast stone pediments running up the top few floors, and the "balcony" railing is in the same material, but brick runs all the way to the top as the predominant material.

Wow, another cheap hotel in Bricktown, I can't wait!

This. Who cares about all these "blah" developments. Let's get a Westin, W, Omni, Hyatt Regency, etc. That'll be worth talking about (or staying at!).

:Smiley236

I agree. To quote Pete, his bit on me was "on cue."

Yep. I'm able to see a permit ap, get info from the city on the same schedule you do. There's nothing special accomplished here Pete. You're scrapping the city's website. So am I.

Except that application with renderings has not yet been posted to the City website.

And I happen to know you didn't send out an email request until after we posted the information here, even though the basic information (w/o renderings) for the project had been on the City's site for over a week.


Want to keep going with this?

I actually like the difference in material at the top of the building. Also, even though I'm against "cookie cutter", we are really starting to define the hotel district in bricktown with a certain look & I really really like it.

Also, OKCtalks brakes the story first again. Not only with the confirmation, but when this project was denied in Deep Deuce I remember reading about rumors & "conspiracies" that this would be moved to Bricktown. I'm too lazy to find those quotes, but I remember reading them specifically.

It definitely seems like Bricktown and the area immediately near it is at full saturation of limited service hotels (Holiday Inn Express, Hampton, Hilton Garden/Homewood, Springhill, Staybridge, Residence, Hyatt Place, Courtyard, Aloft), but there are only a couple full service ones (Sheraton, Renaissance, and Hilton). I would love to see a couple of these in downtown or bricktown: Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, Omni, Hyatt Regency, Conrad, JW Marriott, Intercontinental, or even Doubletree.

It's not a bad look, but I wish a higher quality material were used for the lighter portion. Surely someone makes a product that fits in between EIFS and limestone.

But they are starting to look very similar. How long until someone drunkenly complains to the front desk that their key doesn't work - only to discover they're in the wrong hotel?

EIFS is the materiality du jour bc affixing sign posts is easier with it.


It definitely seems like Bricktown and the area immediately near it is at full saturation of limited service hotels (Holiday Inn Express, Hampton, Hilton Garden/Homewood, Springhill, Staybridge, Residence, Hyatt Place, Courtyard, Aloft), but there are only a couple full service ones (Sheraton, Renaissance, and Hilton). I would love to see a couple of these in downtown or bricktown: Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, Omni, Hyatt Regency, Conrad, JW Marriott, Intercontinental, or even Doubletree.

I keep waiting for one of these limited service brands to see foregoing the EIFS strip as an edge over the stiff competition.

Except that application with renderings has not yet been posted to the City website.

And I happen to know you didn't send out an email request until after we posted the information here, even though the basic information (w/o renderings) for the project had been on the City's site for over a week.


Want to keep going with this?

Yes. You are lying. I filed my open records request minutes before you posted this. Will was with me at Beatnix when I had sent off the email & he told me you had posted this. I saw the filing line at okc.gov on Friday but didn't have to file the request until today. from now on you leave me alone. an i will leave you alone

Yes. You are lying. I filed my open records request minutes before you posted this. Will was with me at Beatnix when I had sent off the email & he told me you had posted this. I saw the filing line at okc.gov on Friday but didn't have to file the request until today. from now on you leave me alone. an i will leave you alone

I love it when you put things in writing.

Thanks.

I can prove I was tracking this before you posted.

I can prove I was tracking this before you posted.

Great!

Let's please move on.

Yes. You are lying. I filed my open records request minutes before you posted this. Will was with me at Beatnix when I had sent off the email & he told me you had posted this. I saw the filing line at okc.gov on Friday but didn't have to file the request until today. from now on you leave me alone. an i will leave you alone

You guys please stop, it's not like it matters that much who does what first. With both sites, we end up getting more comprehensive information.

Not gonna lie, Steve, you've pretty much lost me after the past few weeks.

I can prove I was tracking this before you posted.

I say this as someone who loves your work, Steve... Why would you care if this site did get a "story" before you? Your job is not to get every story first, but provide details and rigor others can't access or create. Web 2.0 and social media sites are going to use their collective intelligence to be the first to the punch often... They'll also pool resources to find information before you sometimes. There are a ton of people who provide Pete information. This site is particularly enhanced because of Pete's incredible interest, knowledge, and motivation. Nonetheless, your contributions at the Oklahoman are still very valuable and valued by almost everyone here. In this new media environment, traditional journalism and new media can work together to provide information to citizens in ways that have never been possible before. It's already happened as public dialogue about issues like the boulevard have been addressed by lots of citizens who might have never participated in the discussion before. There's no need to worry about who is first, Steve. Citizens are the ones winning in this new landscape. It makes a lot of sense to see this site as complimentary, not competitive.

Not gonna lie, Steve, you've pretty much lost me after the past few weeks.+1

Not gonna lie, Steve, you've pretty much lost me after the past few weeks.
I think a lot of people are jumping off that ship.

Great!

Let's please move on.
Note: this started with a pot shot you took at me.
And here's the proof I was working on this before you posted and was not simply reacting to you posting.
82068207
Now, you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. I think it's clear that you don't respect the work I do. As for me, I complimented you just three days ago in the fuss over Bricktown and noted you had done a good job at responding to claims that Bricktown was about to be turned into an office park. I do take issue with the liberties taken by some posters on this site with the facts, and I won't apologize for correcting those errors when someone (often from this site) brings them up in the live chats. You see any contrary response by me to what is said by anyone on this site as an attack on the site itself (and I've not even mentioned the site in any of my postings or writing in months. Again, I suggest you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone, that's that.

I think a lot of people are jumping off that ship.
This site has lost me.

I say this as someone who loves your work, Steve... Why would you care if this site did get a "story" before you? Your job is not to get every story first, but provide details and rigor others can't access or create. Web 2.0 and social media sites are going to use their collective intelligence to be the first to the punch often... They'll also pool resources to find information before you sometimes. There are a ton of people who provide Pete information. This site is particularly enhanced because of Pete's incredible interest, knowledge, and motivation. Nonetheless, your contributions at the Oklahoman are still very valuable and valued by almost everyone here. In this new media environment, traditional journalism and new media can work together to provide information to citizens in ways that have never been possible before. It's already happened as public dialogue about issues like the boulevard have been addressed by lots of citizens, who might have never participated in the discussion before. There's no need to worry about who is first, Steve. Citizens are the ones winning in this new landscape. It makes a lot of sense to see this site as complimentary, not competitive.

I don't care about who gets what first. What I do take offense to is Pete implying I am clueless until he posts something - which is what he did and what started this conversation. You need to be asking Pete why he felt it necessary to take an uninvited pot shot at me. This discussion was started by him, not me. I'm simply responding.

It would certainly be neat if this board had private message capabilities.

I'm just glad I'm served by two great sources of OKC info. That's a good thing unlike this proposed hotel.

N/m

Meanwhile back at the ranch


EIFS is the materiality du jour bc affixing sign posts is easier with it.



I keep waiting for one of these limited service brands to see foregoing the EIFS strip as an edge over the stiff competition.

It would certainly be neat if this board had private message capabilities.

I'm just glad I'm served by two great sources of OKC info. That's a good thing unlike this proposed hotel.

This board DOES have a private message feature.

This board DOES have a private message feature.

I think your sarcasm meter needs calibration.

Except that application with renderings has not yet been posted to the City website.

And I happen to know you didn't send out an email request until after we posted the information here, even though the basic information (w/o renderings) for the project had been on the City's site for over a week.


Want to keep going with this?

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131213115408/glee/images/b/bd/Sugar-fight-fight-fight.gif

^^^like^^^

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130313092258/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/e/e2/How-about-no-bear.jpg

It would certainly be neat if this board had private message capabilities.

I'm just glad I'm served by two great sources of OKC info.

+1

Note: this started with a pot shot you took at me.
And here's the proof I was working on this before you posted and was not simply reacting to you posting.
82068207
Now, you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. I think it's clear that you don't respect the work I do. As for me, I complimented you just three days ago in the fuss over Bricktown and noted you had done a good job at responding to claims that Bricktown was about to be turned into an office park. I do take issue with the liberties taken by some posters on this site with the facts, and I won't apologize for correcting those errors when someone (often from this site) brings them up in the live chats. You see any contrary response by me to what is said by anyone on this site as an attack on the site itself (and I've not even mentioned the site in any of my postings or writing in months. Again, I suggest you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone, that's that.You do know it is possible to change the name of an older file you have created, so in all honesty, those screenshots don't prove much.

I love the work you do and have much respect, but you're saying this site has lost you, but you're still on here and it seems like you're here only to tell people to remove a measly photo that wasn't even making profit for the site... start random arguments with posters who present other facts that don't favor you... and attack Pete for doing what you did to him and this site the other day.... and I know i've seen it in the past.

I was also hoping the article you wrote about Bricktown Towers was a sign of better relations with this site seeing as you really went out on a limb to research it and find out hard facts which I--and I'm sure everyone else--appreciates greatly. I don't know initially what started this, but all I know is 9/10 developments I hear about(breaking news or not), come from this website(usually first). They aren't link to your articles, they are articles Pete has spent tons of time on and personally, I like the format better on this site.

I suggest you create your own forum website and see how that works out. Not trying to be snark or sarcastic, I'm being serious. Perhaps you get more done that way and have more security that way. Until then, it would greatly be appreciated if you could give us here the same respect we give you(not taking cheap shots at this site as being an incredible source and a rumor mill). Even thought you don't directly come out and say it, we weren't born yesterday, we can take hints man.

Again, I love you and your work, but I honestly think Pete has done a better job of putting things together and providing information that is easier to (1) find (2) understand (3) is more interactive and user friendly (4) has more insider information (5) has something your news articles never will - the power of users and citizens voicing what they know through posts. There are some extremely informed people on this board who really know their stuff and having a place where they can post or send PM's and have it posted is better to have it on an organized forum rather than a comment section or random chat log. Like I said, perhaps you should create your own vBulletin forum board and see how it works since you seem to be in know and have the information before Pete.

Coming on a forum board and posting a screenshot really doesn't prove anything. Pete clearly had the sources and the info first was able to post it. If you cared that much to be on here arguing about it, you would've posted it first if you could have. Am I wrong on that? I really hope this doesn't sour your opinion of me, but I had to say it.

Thank you Pete for all the information you provide to this site and keeping us informed with news that we get first due the inside sources posting or PM'ing here because of the anonymity and thank you Steve for you wonderful reporting you do for NewsOk. This city is very lucky to have two people who dedicate their time and resources to this matter.

Traditional media, when it is working properly, has the advantage of thorough research, transparency, and the reputation of the reporter. If Pete says BOK and Devon are working to build a new tower on the Preftakes block, I'll believe him, because he has a good reputation and appears to have solid sources. But if Steve then posts an article going into great detail (as he did with Bricktown Towers) about how things just don't add up (with interviews, and research, etc), then I'll believe him.

I hear things first on OKCTalk. Always. When I see Steve's articles I expect to get the fully researched story. This means that traditional media can't compete with the internet for speed. But that's been clear for quite a while now.

Originally this building technique utilized a higher-grade material like limestone. When brick gets over a certain number of stories using ONLY brick can make a building look very heavy and monolithic. So architects added the cast stone to lighten things visually. Here is an example from right here at home:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GcCDVZCatRo/T0NB0FWm3jI/AAAAAAAACvM/rFcfozqpXqg/s640/Skirvin+Hotel.jpg

And here is what a building can look like without it (NYC):

http://www.rew-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/stuyTown2.jpg

However, somewhere along the way, builders discovered that substituting EIFS for the cast stone or brick actually saved a bunch of money too, so they fully embrace the design for economic reasons, though it began for aesthetic ones.


I don't have much to add except to say that I appreciate this post and the perspective it provides on building design. I'm quoting it in full to hopefully allow everyone to see it. I fear it may have gotten buried under the (unfortunate) drama that followed it.

Here is one way to do it in a picture I took about a week ago.

8211

Breaking: emotional trainwreck continues to publically behave like an emotional trainwreck.

This site has lost me.

That would've bothered me a year or so ago, but you quit adding anything to this site a long time ago. You used to be one of my favorite posters because of your work, your knowledge and your connections, but then IIRC you got your feelings hurt my some internet bullies and took your ball and went home. Now it seems the only thing you do here is petty bickering. You could be a great asset to this board, but you choose not to. That is sad, but in the end it is your choice.

Here is one way to do it in a picture I took about a week ago.

8211

I love that but it uses the pitched roofs to accent the top and pitched roofs are not allowed in Bricktown. The one place that did it downtown has been scorned by almost everyone.