It's always intrigued me how so many businesses are clustered together in the this area. Hastily clustered together, with traffic being at times nightmarish and civic planning for development in this area to be subpar. I feel that when new businesses decide to stake a venture in Oklahoma City, they conduct their usual market research and find that this area is a commercial development hotbed. No one wants to be that business that went risky by selecting an area of town that's not so ripe for business, and possibly invigorate business in that area by stumbling upon and tapping into a formerly unreognized desire by its nearby citizens to have said business in their area. Sure....its successful, if your guess was correct, but in the game of business mistakes can cost big money that no one wants to lose in today's economy. What also intrigues me about the Memorial corridor is how close it is to Edmond, yet not actually in Edmond...as if Edmondites fear this mass commercialization will drag down their sacred property values. In the news recently, is the announcement that Cabelas is planning to open a store at Western and Memorial......Why, this area? Cause this is where everything else is when an executive from your company conducted research and saw this is where development is prime at? Why not adjacent to Bass Pro? Give some much needed competition in Bricktown. Norman would be an excellent choice....the residents there are just as affluent as any in Edmond, and with nearby Lake Thunderbird, it would make more practical sense.

Penn needs to be widened to six lanes. Western needs to be widened to six lanes. The service roads needs to be widened to six lanes. The roads going around Quail Springs needs to be widened to four lanes with center turn lane; seeing as how it is going to develop much more(as it should), traffic lights might be needed on that road also.

The traffic lights need to have dedicated right turn(most do), dual left turn, lights needs to be synchronized. The underpasses need to have Texas Turn-arounds.

You seem anti-development. Have you not heard of Chisholm Creek? This area needs more development, but it also time to do some major re-construction of the streets. It wouldn't hurt for the city to develop a plan to eventually build light-rail and buy a couple pieces of property and buy ROW for a rail line and some stations around here. Perhaps one in the Chisholm Creek development and one near Paycom in that area.

I honestly don't know how you can overdevelop an area. This is good it becoming dense. Would you rather see these vacant lots sit vacant and have the city loose valuable tax dollars to help relieve congestion here?

.

You seem anti-development? Only in that area. Area residents are suffering at the hands of careless developers.

Only in that area. Area residents are suffering at the hands of careless developers.how is it the developers?

Penn needs to be widened to six lanes. Western needs to be widened to six lanes. The service roads needs to be widened to six lanes. The roads going around Quail Springs needs to be widened to four lanes with center turn lane; seeing as how it is going to develop much more(as it should), traffic lights might be needed on that road also.

The traffic lights need to have dedicated right turn(most do), dual left turn, lights needs to be synchronized. The underpasses need to have Texas Turn-arounds.

You seem anti-development. Have you not heard of Chisholm Creek? This area needs more development, but it also time to do some major re-construction of the streets. It wouldn't hurt for the city to develop a plan to eventually build light-rail and buy a couple pieces of property and buy ROW for a rail line and some stations around here. Perhaps one in the Chisholm Creek development and one near Paycom in that area.

I honestly don't know how you can overdevelop an area. This is good it becoming dense. Would you rather see these vacant lots sit vacant and have the city loose valuable tax dollars to help relieve congestion here?

From every other six lane road I have used around the city, I really doubt it will make it any better.

From every other six lane road I have used around the city, I really doubt it will make it any better.I disagree. If you're thinking it will solve all traffic problems, no. When there is a road, there will be traffic. But it will be a lot better than the 4 Lane roads there are now

It's always intrigued me how so many businesses are clustered together in the this area. Hastily clustered together, with traffic being at times nightmarish and civic planning for development in this area to be subpar. I feel that when new businesses decide to stake a venture in Oklahoma City, they conduct their usual market research and find that this area is a commercial development hotbed. No one wants to be that business that went risky by selecting an area of town that's not so ripe for business, and possibly invigorate business in that area by stumbling upon and tapping into a formerly unreognized desire by its nearby citizens to have said business in their area. Sure....its successful, if your guess was correct, but in the game of business mistakes can cost big money that no one wants to lose in today's economy. What also intrigues me about the Memorial corridor is how close it is to Edmond, yet not actually in Edmond...as if Edmondites fear this mass commercialization will drag down their sacred property values. In the news recently, is the announcement that Cabelas is planning to open a store at Western and Memorial......Why, this area? Cause this is where everything else is when an executive from your company conducted research and saw this is where development is prime at? Why not adjacent to Bass Pro? Give some much needed competition in Bricktown. Norman would be an excellent choice....the residents there are just as affluent as any in Edmond, and with nearby Lake Thunderbird, it would make more practical sense.

National chain retailers, bottom line, do not like risk. Though its getting easier, its still relatively tough to convince national retailers to locate in OKC to begin with. When they do, its certainly going to be in an area that is proven to work for retail that has draw and can feed off other retail in the surrounding area. The Quail Springs/Memorial area and the Penn Square/NHP/Classen Curve area are the two main centers of retail in the metro and new-to-market retailers are almost certainly going to choose one of those two locations.

I live in this area at 150th and Western. Our property values and remained on a slow and steady upwards climb. And everyone is excited for all these new developments that are coming to the area.

As for the roads the only thing I would do is widen the service roads to 3 lanes but that probably wont do much either. Maybe better light synchronization

I'm not a huge fan of the QS area in terms of the way it is laid out but truthfully its not all that different than most newish shopping centers in the sunbelt. Nothing that is there is beyond fixable and the Chislom Creek development alone is a HUGE improvement in that area. To be honest, I felt that Penn Square/Belle Isle/Classen Curve area has hugely outperformed the QS area in terms of getting new retail in the past few years, so maybe QS is finally getting it in gear.

It is rather interesting that Edmond has not tried to establish a rival development to this area given that they are probably losing a ton of sales tax. Oh well, I'm glad that people are spending their money in OKC instead of keeping in the suburbs. Its a big reason OKCs muncipal budget has been far more stable than Tulsa's.

As far as congestion is concerned, Memorial road is bumpy as hell but its not that busy outside of peak hours. I'd wish OTA would take down that tacky chain link fence though.

I will say between the two hospitals on 15th and I35, wally world and sams, and the conference and sports area on Covell and I35, I feel that within the next 5-10 years there might be some kind of development pop in that corridor. Not rival those areas, but could hold its own.

I will say between the two hospitals on 15th and I35, wally world and sams, and the conference and sports area on Covell and I35, I feel that within the next 5-10 years there might be some kind of development pop in that corridor. Not rival those areas, but could hold its own.

You are right....I forget about the conference development off 35. It would be nice to see that area fill in.

There's a lot of potential with the Spring Creek Village area should they get the right developer. It is nice now, but I could easily see it being a slightly less pretentious version of Southlake Town Square with some work.

What we need is to get a way from devleopment like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.609031,-97.553036&spn=0.005915,0.007462&t=h&z=18

We have to many developments in the metro (esp memorial) of anchors with large setbacks and smaller stores built in the parking lot of the anchor.

We need more developments of what Chisolm Creek is supposed to be. Mixed use developments built on the human scale with walking in mind. Not to say you can't drive your car there. But you drive there, park and then walk to all the different stores instead of drive to the anchor and then drive to another store within the same parking lot that's a couple hundred feet away because walking it would be dangerous. I know I always harp on this but, Memorial has potential if developments are thought through intelligently.

What we need is to get a way from devleopment like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.609031,-97.553036&spn=0.005915,0.007462&t=h&z=18

Most of the suburban retail development in Charlotte over the past decade looks less like that or Belle Isle and more like Spring Creek in Edmond. I hope OKC goes that direction in the future.

What we need is to get a way from devleopment like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.609031,-97.553036&spn=0.005915,0.007462&t=h&z=18

We have to many developments in the metro (esp memorial) of anchors with large setbacks and smaller stores built in the parking lot of the anchor.

We need more developments of what Chisolm Creek is supposed to be. Mixed use developments built on the human scale with walking in mind. Not to say you can't drive your car there. But you drive there, park and then walk to all the different stores instead of drive to the anchor and then drive to another store within the same parking lot that's a couple hundred feet away because walking it would be dangerous. I know I always harp on this but, Memorial has potential if developments are thought through intelligently.
The large setbacks and smaller stores being built in the parking lots are fine. It's the quality of how they're built. If the roads Western and Penn around the mall were widened and landscaped, more smaller stores and restaurants infill in parking lots, parking lots redone in cement, more landscaping added, service roads widened, traffic lights synchronized etc. It isn't this layout... It's how the layout is kept up and beautified. Frisco is a great example.

Most of the suburban retail development in Charlotte over the past decade looks less like that or Belle Isle and more like Spring Creek in Edmond. I hope OKC goes that direction in the future.
When a shopping center is laid out intelligently, the parking lot is boxed in at all perimeters with curb with only permitting those to exit thru a well marked, median divided, entrance/exit usually with a trafic light if it dumps out into a major thoroughfare......if said shopping center is located adjacent to a major freeway, the highway exit for the shopping center is usually pushed back about 1/4 of a mile or further distance to prevent highway congestion from those wishing to decelerate and exit and also to smooth out the flow of traffic leading up to the shopping center entrance located on the service road.

What we need is to get a way from devleopment like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.609031,-97.553036&spn=0.005915,0.007462&t=h&z=18

We have to many developments in the metro (esp memorial) of anchors with large setbacks and smaller stores built in the parking lot of the anchor.

We need more developments of what Chisolm Creek is supposed to be. Mixed use developments built on the human scale with walking in mind. Not to say you can't drive your car there. But you drive there, park and then walk to all the different stores instead of drive to the anchor and then drive to another store within the same parking lot that's a couple hundred feet away because walking it would be dangerous. I know I always harp on this but, Memorial has potential if developments are thought through intelligently.
The large setbacks and smaller stores being built in the parking lots are fine. It's the quality of how they're built. If the roads Western and Penn around the mall were widened and landscaped, more smaller stores and restaurants infill in parking lots, parking lots redone in cement, more landscaping added, service roads widened, traffic lights synchronized etc. It isn't this layout... It's how the layout is kept up and beautified. Frisco is a great example.

I disagree. If you're thinking it will solve all traffic problems, no. When there is a road, there will be traffic. But it will be a lot better than the 4 Lane roads there are now

So you believe induced demand is real now? (It is BTW - glad you are seeing the light!!) ;)

It's always intrigued me how so many businesses are clustered together in the this area. Hastily clustered together, with traffic being at times nightmarish and civic planning for development in this area to be subpar. I feel that when new businesses decide to stake a venture in Oklahoma City, they conduct their usual market research and find that this area is a commercial development hotbed. No one wants to be that business that went risky by selecting an area of town that's not so ripe for business, and possibly invigorate business in that area by stumbling upon and tapping into a formerly unreognized desire by its nearby citizens to have said business in their area. Sure....its successful, if your guess was correct, but in the game of business mistakes can cost big money that no one wants to lose in today's economy. What also intrigues me about the Memorial corridor is how close it is to Edmond, yet not actually in Edmond...as if Edmondites fear this mass commercialization will drag down their sacred property values. In the news recently, is the announcement that Cabelas is planning to open a store at Western and Memorial......Why, this area? Cause this is where everything else is when an executive from your company conducted research and saw this is where development is prime at? Why not adjacent to Bass Pro? Give some much needed competition in Bricktown. Norman would be an excellent choice....the residents there are just as affluent as any in Edmond, and with nearby Lake Thunderbird, it would make more practical sense.

Basically, businesses are stupid for wanting to succeed and Edmondites are stupid for wanting their property values to stay up. The audacity....

Oh look a thread bitching and moaning about something that isn't urban. I'm so shocked.

Oh look a thread bitching and moaning about something that isn't urban. I'm so shocked.

For me, it's not so much that it isn't urban but rather that it's such a giant pain in the ass to navigate/put up with due to poor design/planning.

Oh look a thread bitching and moaning about something that isn't urban. I'm so shocked.hmmm. there are tons of threads about people bitching about urbanism not done right...

The problem isn't the development...the problem is in the addiction to everyone owning their own vehicle and a city who lacks a great transit system. Families of 5 shouldn't have 5 cars.

I wouldn't call it addiction. In this city the vast majority NEED a car because we do lack a great transit system. With a great transit system, the need for cars starts to decline, esp in the city center.

The problem isn't the development...the problem is in the addiction to everyone owning their own vehicle and a city who lacks a great transit system. Families of 5 shouldn't have 5 cars.

I'm all for public transit systems. Lived in NE for years. My take is how is it that a family shouldn't have 5 cars? If they want to have that many, so be it.

Families of 5 shouldn't have 5 cars.

If they can afford it and want it, why shouldn't they have it? You may not view it as socially responsible, but my guess is you don't really want all of us controlling what you "should" or shouldn't have. Or better yet, having the government dictate it to you. Maybe they don't like the clothes you wear or the job you work.

The problem isn't the development...the problem is in the addiction to everyone owning their own vehicle and a city who lacks a great transit system. Families of 5 shouldn't need 5 cars. fxd

There is tons of development. I only hope that it's upscale development that will help boost property values AND property sales over the long run. House sales are still rather slow, and having tons of, say, discount stores, isn't going to increase property value.

There is tons of development. I only hope that it's upscale development that will help boost property values AND property sales over the long run. House sales are still rather slow, and having tons of, say, discount stores, isn't going to increase property value.

The new Chisholm Creek development at Memorial and Western is supposed to bring in several new-to-market retailers and restaurants and the city's second Whole Foods location. It is also, if built as planned, supposed to include a residential component and a live music venue. I would say this will definitely raise property values, not lower them. OKC could soon finally have a "trendy" suburban alternative to downtown.

The new Chisholm Creek development at Memorial and Western is supposed to bring in several new-to-market retailers and restaurants and the city's second Whole Foods location. It is also, if built as planned, supposed to include a residential component and a live music venue. I would say this will definitely raise property values, not lower them. OKC could soon finally have a "trendy" suburban alternative to downtown.


Upscale stores and restaurants are good. A Whole Foods around here? Wow. A live music venue making it more of a destination could be cool.

Residential component... more apartments? Ugh. There's so many apartments around here as it is. At least some of them are "more expensive" for apartments, but it still means more traffic and less class. Rental apartments aren't good for homeowners nearby.

Upscale stores and restaurants are good. A Whole Foods around here? Wow. A live music venue making it more of a destination could be cool.

Residential component... more apartments? Ugh. There's so many apartments around here as it is. At least some of them are "more expensive" for apartments, but it still means more traffic and less class. Rental apartments aren't good for homeowners nearby.

I'm beginning to think that you don't like apartments. :)

One thing that kind of helps with the Chisholm creek apartments is in their PUD they added they would do zero garden style apartments which I thought was odd but fantastic. It prevents them from doing what they did at the area by the mall(Quail) but it also encourages whatever apartments they do to be more than just an apartment building, ie offices, retail, mixed in. Which I would think be better for homeowners as it increases amenities and population without having the lowest of low rents.

Long dedicated right-turn-only lanes at every intersection would ease a lot of congestion. Texas turnarounds at Western, Penn, May, and Hefner Pkwy would ease a lot of congestion. OTA needs to move each of the Penn Exit ramps back a thousand or so feet to allow better merging onto the service roads. Dang, I should have been a planning engineer. :pat_head:

No, you would make a better TRAFFIC engineer. Planners account for multiple modes of transportation and good land use.

No, you would make a better TRAFFIC engineer. Planners account for multiple modes of transportation and good land use.

Even from an auto-centric, suburban perspective the Memorial corridor needs a ton of work. Not only would more turnarounds be helpful, but much of it needs repaved because the potholes are excessive. It's one of those corridors that I don't understand why the city isn't doing something about yet they can come up with the funds to widen NW 192nd.

No, you would make a better TRAFFIC engineer. Planners account for multiple modes of transportation and good land use.

Not quite -- a traffic engineer deals with the functional part of transportation system, except the infrastructures provided. A planning engineer focuses on the planning, design, and construction of highways, roads, and bridges. I want to plan and design better roadways. That's my point. :cheersmf:

Even from an auto-centric, suburban perspective the Memorial corridor needs a ton of work. Not only would more turnarounds be helpful, but much of it needs repaved because the potholes are excessive. It's one of those corridors that I don't understand why the city isn't doing something about yet they can come up with the funds to widen NW 192nd.

The most congested areas of Memorial road are not even close to the top of the list of roads that need repaved first, they are not even the areas of Memorial road that need repaved the most.

The most congested areas of Memorial road are not even close to the top of the list of roads that need repaved first, they are not even the areas of Memorial road that need repaved the most.

Amen to that. The 240 frontage is waaaaay worse than Memorial when it comes to needing to be repaved. The U turn lanes do help keep traffic from backing up some, but 240 has some of those right hand turn lanes, and they aren't greatly used. Traffic still backs up in the 2 through lanes at intersections that have both features on them. Much like Memorial, the right turn lane doesn't really help that much in that you only avoided about 30 seconds-1 minute of waiting time and didn't help that many cars flow. The U helps prevent 2 lights-worth of traffic, but is much more expensive to install given the bridge work that has to be done to make it work.

I feel like people that drive on Memorial need a whambulance more than anything.

This is what they need to do to Memorial: Reverse the on-ramp and off-ramps.

11041

This is what they need to do to Memorial: Reverse the on-ramp and off-ramps.

11041

They would never reverse the ramps. They may be persuaded to move the off-ramps away from the intersection though which would help a lot.

They would never reverse the ramps. They may be persuaded to move the off-ramps away from the intersection though which would help a lot.

I wouldn't think they would... but I can wish ha.