I'll always take a local chain over a national chain any day of the week. The operators here are stepping up to the table, and deserve to be rewarded for it.

The issue with the Drake is flying in seafood.

There are economies of scale if you have more than one location but you don't want them too far apart for obvious reasons.

I absolutely agree with and understand this line of thinking. That being said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Drake opened at least partially in response to more seafood options coming into this market in the last 3 or 4 years. Lots of restaurants have been making an effort to get new things on plates and into the market for awhile, so certain purveyors have gotten their feet wet here. I'm sure Good Egg decided to capitalize on the opportunity after building some of their own connections through other restaurants in their group and with other people who have wanted to do business but the circumstances weren't right until now (or a few years ago anyway when the process for this restaurant started).

So with a larger seafood market, more restaurants will have more things available to choose from. Purveyors may agree with AGE to give them the best deals and selections, but they'll make a push with other restaurants in the market as well, and that will account for some economy of scale.

Only time will tell, but I tend to favor the idea that the brand is more valuable as an individual location in this market for the time being than it would be if it's franchised to multiple places throughout the metro. And maybe not specifically for the brand, per se, but for the owners who own multiple other restaurants and property on 23rd such that keeping Drake as a special place only to be found in "their backyard" could be worth more than having 2 Drakes that make a little bit more money, but that make 23rd a little bit more superfluous for someone living on the north side.

Does anyone know what they are doing to the southeast of Freddys right next to this development? They just cleared a massive amount of trees.

Does anyone know what they are doing to the southeast of Freddys right next to this development? They just cleared a massive amount of trees.

I checked and couldn't find any building permits.

Hopefully the hotel is forward thinking and builds it bigger than the demand right now. Something like the Embassy Suites in Norman.

This kind of hotel on Memorial would absolutely kill. Embassy Suites Norman is an excellent facility with great amenities, but their management is terrible. I've worked as a vendor for a lot of events there and most of my clients have totally hated working with their staff. The hotel itself is just so much better than anything offered in the city (for larger events) that its worth the stress and the drive to Norman.

^

Yes, something like that -- and there are several similar operators -- or Alamo Drafthouse.

Having lived in DFW now for a couple of years, I don't remember the last time I went to a theatre that wasn't a dine-in theatre like Studio Movie Grill, MovieTavern, Alamo Drafthouse, etc... I've found that, even if I'm not there to eat a full meal, the option of having a beer or an appetizer is appealing enough to draw my business from standard theatres.


Btw, first post in a long time: hello everyone :-)

Totally agree... I really can't go back to movie theaters without beer and food. It's like not watching HD television. ;)

Tract 30 progress (from https://twitter.com/AdamCBivins):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQMPRvLUkAA4-IB.jpg

What is Tract30?

See big image at the top of the page...

It's where the new Republic and sushi place are going in.

I guess I don't understand what this whole thing is supposed to be. I know I'm not up on a bunch of trends, but this just looks like a really expensive group of stores with a bunch of surface parking. How is this an "urban lifestyle center" or whatever they call it?

Thank you for asking that. I never understood what the difference between this and a regular collection of strip malls is. Layout maybe? But still its a bunch of parking in front of a big box store.

There will actually be a lot of structured parking plus apartments, a hotel, offices, live music venue, recreation, etc.

And a farmer's market right? Or something along that line, IIRC?

^

Yes, they hope to put together an indoor public market with vendor stalls. And they are pretty far along with a dine-in movie concept.

Give these guys credit... They brought in TopGolf, Cabela's iFly, a new Republic, the Elliot Nelson sushi concept and are bring in lots of new things to the market. And their plans are generally far beyond anything else we have in OKC right now.

Integration and Placemaking are the difference between this and a strip-mall development along Hefner.

Also, I don't think these were ever "Urban" lifestyle centers, just lifestyle centers. You're not going to experience Deep Deuce north of 13th St. anytime in the next few decades.

Are people expected to drive from one side to the other or are there suitable walking facilities throughout? I'm asking because I've never been.

Integration and Placemaking are the difference between this and a strip-mall development along Hefner.

Also, I don't think these were ever "Urban" lifestyle centers, just lifestyle centers. You're not going to experience Deep Deuce north of 13th St. anytime in the next few decades.

I'm not sure anyone expected it to be Deep Deuce, just didn't understand what is meant by lifestyle center. Why is that so great? What type of place is being made? I've been to topgolf and the way they built looks just about like every other top golf I've seen. If you want to get to any other part of this 'lifestyle center', the majority of people are going to drive. I just don't understand the hype other than bringing in comapanies that we don't already have.

They will have a ton of trails and sidewalks and there will be much more density in the core of the development than at TopGolf or Cabela's.

I'm not sure anyone expected it to be Deep Deuce, just didn't understand what is meant by lifestyle center. Why is that so great? What type of place is being made? I've been to topgolf and the way they built looks just about like every other top golf I've seen. If you want to get to any other part of this 'lifestyle center', the majority of people are going to drive. I just don't understand the hype other than bringing in comapanies that we don't already have.

Once you get there (by car for most people) it will actually be a more walkable and mixed use than most suburban environments. It's no replacement for full-scale urbanism, but it's better than typical suburban set ups.

I'm not sure anyone expected it to be Deep Deuce, just didn't understand what is meant by lifestyle center. Why is that so great? What type of place is being made? I've been to topgolf and the way they built looks just about like every other top golf I've seen. If you want to get to any other part of this 'lifestyle center', the majority of people are going to drive. I just don't understand the hype other than bringing in comapanies that we don't already have.

I lived within walking distance of a lifestyle center when I lived in Charlotte and I really enjoyed it. Basically, they combine a faux town center concept with that of a traditional shopping mall. Like a shoping mall, they are destinations and typically offer a lot more than just shopping. A lot of them have programmed events such as live music with food and cocktails being sold outside. The one near me in Charlotte had Jazz nights on Fridays with live musicians that I always enjoyed. These shopping centers were popping up everywhere during the second half of the last decade but for some reason one could never get off the ground in OKC. Most importantly of all, these types of developments help bring a social focal point and an element of urbanism to suburbia. This development will fill a niche that has long been lacking here.

Here is an example of how a lifestyle center could look. Most of the time there will be retail on the first floor with a few floors of residential above it. Compare this to anything currently in OKC.

http://www.ls3p.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/PhillipsPlace01.jpg

ABQ Uptown is another good example as well.

The Denver metro has a number of these that are fantastic. Belmar near Arvada and Stapleton near Commerce City are both stunning repurposed urban zones tucked away in suburbia.

The Grove here in Los Angeles is really the development that started the lifestyle center craze.

^

And they are pretty far along with a dine-in movie concept.


Are there any more details on this?

No, just that I was told they are working hard on this and show a cinema in their latest renderings.

I guess I don't know why people are still coming after this place. Must be a slow news day. Its a suburban mix use development that will/has bring in plenty of new retail to the area. Plus it looks like they are really trying to incorporate new pedestrian ideas and trails.

Look at the success of top golf, cabelas, and hell even main event. Its already a gold mine. It has the potential to pass the likes Market Street in the Woodlands, which I frequent plenty.

It has some urban but mostly suburban aspects. News flash. Its in the suburbs. People need places to park. A rail line will probably never go by this place. Complain about something else, its getting tiring.

No, just that I was told they are working hard on this and show a cinema in their latest renderings.

Do you think their proximity to AMC will effect what they are going to be able to bring in?

^

Absolutely not.

That area is vastly under-served in terms of screens and there isn't any dine-in theaters in all of OKC. Warren may have some of those features but it's way down in Moore.

Alamo Drafthouse would be my first choice but there are tons of other great operators.

^

Absolutely not.

That area is vastly under-served in terms of screens and there isn't any dine-in theaters in all of OKC. Warren may have some of those features but it's way down in Moore.

Alamo Drafthouse would be my first choice but there are tons of other great operators.

Would there not be a non-compete for first-run movies within a certain distance from AMC? Agree that the area is under-served, just curious if they would run into that problem.

Do you think their proximity to AMC will effect what they are going to be able to bring in?

The AMC theater is kind of dated by modern standards. When I lived up there, I preferred to go to Tinseltown instead or just drive to Moore. A new option in the area will be much welcome. I would worry more about the impact a new theater would have on the AMC rather than whether or not a new theater could be supported. Hopefully competition drives AMC to upgrade their theater.

Would there not be a non-compete for first-run movies within a certain distance from AMC? Agree that the area is under-served, just curious if they would run into that problem.

I seriously doubt it.

I guess I don't know why people are still coming after this place. Must be a slow news day. Its a suburban mix use development that will/has bring in plenty of new retail to the area. Plus it looks like they are really trying to incorporate new pedestrian ideas and trails.

Look at the success of top golf, cabelas, and hell even main event. Its already a gold mine. It has the potential to pass the likes Market Street in the Woodlands, which I frequent plenty.

It has some urban but mostly suburban aspects. News flash. Its in the suburbs. People need places to park. A rail line will probably never go by this place. Complain about something else, its getting tiring.

No one is complaining. I just didn't know what the hell it was. Several of us were asking for clarification.

The AMC theater is kind of dated by modern standards. When I lived up there, I preferred to go to Tinseltown instead or just drive to Moore. A new option in the area will be much welcome. I would worry more about the impact a new theater would have on the AMC rather than whether or not a new theater could be supported. Hopefully competition drives AMC to upgrade their theater.

Would be great if it encouraged them to convert a few screens into something like they have at Penn Square.

would be great if it encouraged them to convert a few screens into something like they have at penn square.

moar reclinerz !!!!!!

I'd like to pay for my own seat before hand, which alamo offers IIRC

Latest site plan

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12112097_696199890479907_2878786893476015972_n.jpg ?oh=f615d451c43b19457842dd0374c90ea2&oe=568BF733

Look at all those trees!

I love it!

They also have this development called the "Cornerstone"

http://www.chisholmcreek.com/sites/chisholmcreek.com/files/resize/files/A9RE3F9-325x183.jpg


Cornerstone Development
Located at the corner of N. Blackwelder Ave. and W. Memorial Dr., this 277-unit residential development will offer distinction through modern design, lushly landscaped inner courtyards with outdoor fireplaces and grills, a resort-style pool with hot tub, private parking, bicycle racks, and storage units. Amenities include spacious walk-in closets, linen closets & pantries, roman soaking tubs, 9-foot ceilings with ceiling fans, granite countertops, full-size washer & dryers, and more.

- About Chisholm Creek | Chisholm Creek (http://www.chisholmcreek.com/about-chisholm-creek)

Latest site plan

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12112097_696199890479907_2878786893476015972_n.jpg ?oh=f615d451c43b19457842dd0374c90ea2&oe=568BF733

Wal-Mart and Sam's are PACKED!

Seeing this reminds me that I learned last week that Lifetime Fitness is back at the negotiating table with CC.

Wal-Mart and Sam's are PACKED!
It must be Black Friday :P

Seeing this reminds me that I learned last week that Lifetime Fitness is back at the negotiating table with CC.

Pete you probably know this better than anyone, but what is LF looking for in a site? Most LF I know are in some pretty high income areas. I know that in a few mile radius that may be true here, but this area is not really all that made of up of the demographic that would typically spend $100 plus per month for a gym membership.

It must be Black Friday :P

Or Christmas Eve.

It would be nice to see the parkway to the west built up more, connecting the core of Chisholm Creek to Western.

Latest site plan

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12112097_696199890479907_2878786893476015972_n.jpg ?oh=f615d451c43b19457842dd0374c90ea2&oe=568BF733

Holy Crap, Life Time is back site plan!!!

Seeing this reminds me that I learned last week that Lifetime Fitness is back at the negotiating table with CC.

Pete, this is really the type of information you should share. Any idea on a time line?


Pete you probably know this better than anyone, but what is LF looking for in a site? Most LF I know are in some pretty high income areas. I know that in a few mile radius that may be true here, but this area is not really all that made of up of the demographic that would typically spend $100 plus per month for a gym membership.

I've wondered about that too. Some of the areas they have built at in Atlanta have a median household income of over 200K in the zip code and a few adjacent ones. From looking at demographics, it seems like the money around he is more concentrated to the North and East. But those areas aren't that dense and don't currently have many neighbors.

This area basically has a money dam to the south since it is OKC schools. But they might be thinking they could draw from Nicholas Hills (probably true), the money in Deer Creek, and still draw some from Edmond, plus anyone that uses Hefner Parkway or the turnpike. Plus they will have great neighbors in this development. Since it looks like they are bringing their new Tennis concept, they might be trying to put some distance between them and the other tennis clubs in Edmond.

One thing I did learn from being a shareholder is their centers typically only have ~5K members, but over 70% of them use the gym at least twice a month and about 1/4 of the revenues are from in center spending. Compared to a place like Planet Fitness that may have 7K members in 1/10th the space, but 80% never actually go. So they don't have to draw a massive amount of people to be successful, just enough people that have some money and value the quality of the experience.

I believe the in center spending part, in fact I thought it would be higher than 25%. When I lived in Arizona that's where I got my haircuts (and damned good ones, actually).

Additional shops, restaurants, hotel are set for Chisholm Creek development | News OK (http://newsok.com/additional-shops-restaurants-hotel-are-set-for-chisholm-creek-development/article/5461368)

nm

Additional shops, restaurants, hotel are set for Chisholm Creek development | News OK (http://newsok.com/additional-shops-restaurants-hotel-are-set-for-chisholm-creek-development/article/5461368)

I saw that earlier but there is really no new information there. It is just a rehash of what has already been discussed.

I saw that earlier but there is really no new information there. It is just a rehash of what has already been discussed.True. The one thing she did report was the new tenants will be announced within the next month so that will be exciting! A Fogo de Chao, a new five stack interchange, and an In-N-Out will make this area pretty nice. :)

True. The one thing she did report was the new tenants will be announced within the next month so that will be exciting! A Fogo de Chao, a new five stack interchange, and an In-N-Out will make this area pretty nice. :)

You left out the new Neiman Marcus and a branch of Spago. LOL

You left out the new Neiman Marcus and a branch of Spago. LOL

Yes!

Nothing new at all here - Big Plans For Chisholm Creek Development - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/30571929/big-plans-for-chisholm-creek-development)

Additional shops, restaurants, hotel are set for Chisholm Creek development | News OK (http://newsok.com/additional-shops-restaurants-hotel-are-set-for-chisholm-creek-development/article/5461368)

I didn't know all that info. Thanks PluPlan!

I didn't know all that info. Thanks PluPlan!Glad I can be of service! ;)

Updated site plan. I guess they just added some names as I don't see much different.

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12301742_708858822547347_1098115427004574229_n.jpg ?oh=75dff9009fc9822c589f0d3cb232589b&oe=56D78095

They've signed three new tenants for Tract 30:

Malarkey's Dueling Piano Bar (same operators as Bricktown)
Jerky.com
Polished Nail Salon


Will join:
Republic
Yokozuna
Fuzzy's

^^^^^^
So will all of those places be considered chains now?