Chisholm Creek is a sprawling mess. Not much of a fan but definitely not a hater either. It serves a purpose, but like so much in OKC, it hasn't lived up to its promise yet.

That being said, I visited that Republic location a couple of times (both for lunch) and it was dreadfully empty and the service was lacking. The food wasn't great either. I'm not sure why it's so hard to replicate the success of one location to another but obviously that is a great challenge to many restaurateurs.

The whole notion of rubber-stamping a duplicate restaurant five miles to the north of an existing location has always seemed bizarre to me.

The lack of connecting sidewalks is pretty high on my list of complaints. Not sure how they claim they are making a walkable development with no sidewalks or crosswalks.
I agree with you on this point. Have you reached to Chisholm Creek? I will be doing so tonight about this. It is pretty pathetic they couldn’t manage a sidewalk and crosswalk system. That said the complaints listed here conflating issues that Jeff Speck brings up would not be solved with more sidewalks and crosswalks.

I agree with you on this point. Have you reached to Chisholm Creek? I will be doing so tonight about this. It is pretty pathetic they couldn’t manage a sidewalk and crosswalk system. That said the complaints listed here conflating issues that Jeff Speck brings up would not be solved with more sidewalks and crosswalks.

The issues are completely related. Why do you think they didn't even think to add sidewalks and crosswalks to connect things together? Because they only thought in terms of cars... which is bad design for a place with a bunch of businesses next to each other.

No one here said Chisholm Creek was an abject economic failure, but it's car-centric design prevented it from being what it could be. I've been to tons of developments that got it right. Take Southlands Lifestyle Center in Aurora, Colorado (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6054441,-104.7087938,3a,75y,199.9h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWrD5Z5aHr6Assc7tdAZ1wQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656). It's all about where you put the parking so that you can achieve as much walkability as possible. In the end, you had to dodge cars walking through parking lots to get from Republic to Top Golf... which means a lot of people won't do it. You lose synergy between businesses that could have improved the experience, profits, and accessibility.

The issues are completely related. Why do you think they didn't even think to add sidewalks and crosswalks to connect things together? Because they only thought in terms of cars... which is bad design for a place with a bunch of businesses next to each other.

No one here said Chisholm Creek was an abject economic failure, but it's car-centric design prevented it from being what it could be. I've been to tons of developments that got it right. Take Southlands Lifestyle Center in Aurora, Colorado (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6054441,-104.7087938,3a,75y,199.9h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWrD5Z5aHr6Assc7tdAZ1wQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656). It's all about where you put the parking so that you can achieve as much walkability as possible. In the end, you had to dodge cars walking through parking lots to get from Republic to Top Golf... which means a lot of people won't do it. You lose synergy between businesses that could have improved the experience, profits, and accessibility.
Dan, I have the uttermost respect for you as I know you are an extremely well educated and reasonable person. Now you should know that development you linked seemed to be finished and this one isn't. Also to add: Colorado is a state that already has multiple developments like this and Oklahoma has none. Oklahoma has no urban university district on par like Boulder's downtown, nor has an urban fabric like Denver, and has no suburban development to look to bringing a cross between urban and suburban together like Chisholm Creek is envisioned to be.

I do not know what the end product of CC will be and I agree it is absolutely ridiculous that sidewalks have not been added to be continuous through the constructed portions of this development. I hope many here will be sending a message to the developers on this. They can be contacted through Facebook and their website as far as I know and I will be doing so shortly after posting this message. I appreciate Teo pointing that out otherwise I did not realize how disconnected their sidewalk system was nor did I recognize just how many crosswalks they lacked which is inexcusable and I agree.

I didn't mean to start a dump on CC thread.

Both Tract 23 and the area by the lake are awesome. Chalk, Birra Birra are two awesome spots. Sidecar is a personal favorite.

Just stinks with the design, if I'm down there totally driving between the two if we hop.

Hopefully we hear more expansion soon, as it sits it is not what it was advertised in anyway. There multiple tenants I am really excited about coming, but it seems like it has really stalled out with those. Alamo was promoted what seems like 2 years ago, and nothing has come of it.

Hopefully we hear more expansion soon, as it sits it is not what it was advertised in anyway. There multiple tenants I am really excited about coming, but it seems like it has really stalled out with those. Alamo was promoted what seems like 2 years ago, and nothing has come of it.

Alamo is still happening.

Chisholm Creek didn't 'advertise' them; I merely posted they were coming.

Straight from their site:

Chisholm Creek is Oklahoma City's first pedestrian-friendly, "mixed-use" development.

https://chisholmcreek.com/

I haven't been to it many time, maybe 3, but seems like kind of a joke. In general these developers always over promise. I always felt like if this development could be half of what was presented we would be lucky.

^^^ it isn’t f@cking finished.

^^^ it isn’t f@cking finished.

It hasn't even started which means any pretty little rendering they provide means nothing. They make decisions based on market demand or whoever is biting. That office building with retail supposedly on the ground floor was announced over a year ago and that hasn't started yet either.

Maybe it will be closer to expectations five years from now. It would certainly be a long time in the making if it did. Time isnt on your side in the commercial real estate world.

^^^ it isn’t f@cking finished.

Calm down there turbo, no one said it was done. I was obviously speaking in generalities as I explicitly said in general developers over promise.

It hasn't even started which means any pretty little rendering they provide means nothing. They make decisions based on market demand or whoever is biting. That office building with retail supposedly on the ground floor was announced over a year ago and that hasn't started yet either.

Maybe it will be closer to expectations five years from now. It would certainly be a long time in the making if it did. Time isnt on your side in the commercial real estate world.
They have a site plan listed on their website and this part of the development hasn't changed much.

Calm down there turbo, no one said it was done. I was obviously speaking in generalities as I explicitly said in general developers over promise.
I think Oklahoma has a history of developers that over promise but developments exist in other states that seemed to have been built to a higher standard. I agree with your concerns overall. I have already messaged them telling their existing development is a joke in regards to walkability of any kind given the disjointed sidewalks and lack of properly marked crosswalks. There should also be a pedestrian crossing directly in front of Top Golf leading to Tract 30.

I think Oklahoma has a history of developers that over promise but developments exist in other states that seemed to have been built to a higher standard. I agree with your concerns overall. I have already messaged them telling their existing development is a joke in regards to walkability of any kind given the disjointed sidewalks and lack of properly marked crosswalks. There should also be a pedestrian crossing directly in front of Top Golf leading to Tract 30.

You are absolutely right, there are plenty of developments in other states. Like someone mentioned Colorado, specifically Boulder. I went to grad school there for 3 years so very familiar with Boulder. They have areas that I would consider pedestrian friendly, and there ain't nothing in this state that I've seen close to that, yet.

You are absolutely right, there are plenty of developments in other states. Like someone mentioned Colorado, specifically Boulder. I went to grad school there for 3 years so very familiar with Boulder. They have areas that I would consider pedestrian friendly, and there ain't nothing in this state that I've seen close to that, yet.

I went to Boulder for the first time last year and was amazed at the amount of cyclists out even during snowy weather. Great town. I am surprised a light-rail extension hasn't happened there yet.

That is another thing CC dropped the ball on with its collector streets. They should have built bike lanes.

I went to Boulder for the first time last year and was amazed at the amount of cyclists out even during snowy weather. Great town. I am surprised a light-rail extension hasn't happened there yet.

That is another thing CC dropped the ball on with its collector streets. They should have built bike lanes.

the line to Boulder will not be light-rail it will be heavy commuter rail

I didn't mean to start a dump on CC thread.

Both Tract 23 and the area by the lake are awesome. Chalk, Birra Birra are two awesome spots. Sidecar is a personal favorite.

Just stinks with the design, if I'm down there totally driving between the two if we hop.

That's basically how it works for me as well. I consider Tract 30 and The Pointe to be two different destinations. I'm perfectly fine parking in the garage at Tract 30 and visiting any of those nearby attractions, but going between that area and The Pointe is a different matter. Someone above said they never have problems finding parking, but the other night I literally drove around the entire parking area near The Pointe and there wasn't a single space was available on either the Chalk side or the Uncle Julios side. I was about to go try to park at Cabela's and walk across the street since it was a decent night, but I got lucky and stumbled upon a car that was backing out before I did that.

Dan, I have the uttermost respect for you as I know you are an extremely well educated and reasonable person.

After reading the first sentence I was sure there was a "but you're wrong comment" coming. ha ha. Appreciate the thoughtful post.

My criticism is 100% geared toward OKC getting the best possible developments. Just moving the sidewalks and parking around slightly could have improved this whole development so it's frustrating that it didn't happen. Having said that, it can still have success and I wish no ill will. And, yes, there's a lot of development left so maybe, just maybe, they can do a better job going forward.

Oh, and by the way, it's not like OKC and CC are the only entities getting this wrong. I'm in Denton and the big new development off I-35 and University has all the same problems as CC.

^^^sorry I didn’t mean to imply you are wrong. I am just stating my opinion which isn’t right nor wrong. I agree with simple tweaks could have solved a lot. I messaged them about this issue and I’ll post their response if they provide one.

No, I was actually saying you didn't imply that. I was just pointing out I thought that's where it was going, but I was wrong. lol. You're good.

Yeah, this development really has not lived up to the original hype. I am glad I am not the only one that thinks so. I'd rather walk from McNellie's to the Peak, than from Cabellas to Top Golf.

(EDIT: I'm an idiot and got my places mixed up. I thought I read "Cabela's to Tract30", not "Cabela's to Top Golf". I'm leaving the original post though because of the blocked sidewalk points.)

Looking at the aerial photography on Google Earth, there is a sidewalk connecting Tract 30 to Cabela's.... but in that imagery it appears that Cabela's has blocked that sidewalk with a bunch of deer feeders.

There also appears to be a sidewalk heading west along the southern edge of Cabela's parking lot - connected to the sidewalk between Tract 30 and Cabela's - that's blocked by boats. That sidewalk doesn't appear to go anywhere but the parking lot for now, but still..... Imagine that. :P

I’m curious about Alamo draft house. They may have slow rolled themselves out of the market. It’ll likely take a year or more to get a brick and mortar up and running. With all the nearby movie theaters starting to serve alchohol and Flix brew house opening 4 miles away
The market may well be saturated within a year. Not sure the novelty of having an Alamo draft house name will be enough to keep it afloat.

I’m curious about Alamo draft house. They may have slow rolled themselves out of the market. It’ll likely take a year or more to get a brick and mortar up and running. With all the nearby movie theaters starting to serve alchohol and Flix brew house opening 4 miles away
The market may well be saturated within a year. Not sure the novelty of having an Alamo draft house name will be enough to keep it afloat.

Went to an Alamo Drafthouse for the first time last week and I was not overly impressed, but I also go to the movies to go see a movie, not eat dinner, so I'm definitely not their target market. I do think the brand recognition will probably help them a good amount, especially now that Regal is running Warren Theatres and their quality seems to have slipped at least a little bit.

I’m curious about Alamo draft house. They may have slow rolled themselves out of the market. It’ll likely take a year or more to get a brick and mortar up and running. With all the nearby movie theaters starting to serve alchohol and Flix brew house opening 4 miles away
The market may well be saturated within a year. Not sure the novelty of having an Alamo draft house name will be enough to keep it afloat.

For sure. I used to be really excited about an Alamo but not so much. Most of the movie theaters now offer alcohol with movies, if that's what someone wants. The other draw to Alamo to me was their relationship with Harry Knowles (which ended in 2017) and the fact that they do some pretty cool events regularly, and built up a pretty cool culture. If they come to OKC and are just another movie theater with pricey tickets and alcohol, they won't really stand out. Just a few years ago they would have been offering something that wasn't available North of I-40.

Y’all would love a Santikos movie theater but they’re only in San Antonio, but they’re the best theater in the country imo.

Alamo does a lot more than just show movies and serve food and drink.

They have a ton of theme nights and special screenings.

It's very different than most movie theaters.

Alamo does a lot more than just show movies and serve food and drink.

They have a ton of theme nights and special screenings.

It's very different than most movie theaters.

That was sort of my point. Do they maintain that culture and do the events and the screenings at their non-Austin locations? Because that's the thing that makes Alamo stand out. Otherwise, they are just a place that shows movies and serves food and drink.

That was sort of my point. Do they maintain that culture and do the events and the screenings at their non-Austin locations? Because that's the thing that makes Alamo stand out. Otherwise, they are just a place that shows movies and serves food and drink.

Yes, all their locations are heavily programmed. That's their thing.

Yeah I’ve been to the one in downtown Austin. Guinness milkshakes are nice but there is no reason the other establishments nearby couldn’t do it. Flix opens next month ,QS, PS and tinseltown and perhaps a Warren. They announced this project in 2017 if I’m not mistaken. Now they won’t be open til 2021 at least. I understand the pretense and timing. And there’s a lot to be said about being fashionably late but waiting until after the party is over is a mistake I would I think having multiple similar venues nearby filling the void. Are they even sure they’re going to be able to compete with all the competition?

^

I can almost guarantee that OKC has less screens per capita than most the cities in which Alamo operates.

And as stated, they are quite different than your typical theater chain.

I’m sure it will be nice but 4 years is a long time to maintain enthusiasm. Meanwhile they’ve opened in “better” places. You know like Lubbock and Omaha. This reminds me of a buddy of mine who was upset about Costco coming because he thought it was a progressive alternative to sam’s more conservative stance. (yes I’m for real he’s an interesting dude but his reasoning was that Costco serves liberal progressive places). but I’m starting to feel put off the same way he was by their indifference to our market. We have alternatives and I’ll say it now I bet they’re still not open by feb 2022. Our market isn’t exactly a priority. But CC is a cool set up. Maybe they could bring in something else from a business that wants in on our market. I mean I’m kind of tired of hearing about how it’s coming. Soon. Relatively. I’m probably going to keep going to PS or Flix. Ha. Omaha. You know like OKC but half the population/mossy oak is considered wedding attire and it’s Iced over 8 months a year.

My understanding is their franchisee changed for this area, which is the reason this has been drawn out a bit.

And by the way, Alamo or Chisholm Creek have yet to announce anything formally. I know what is going on behind the scenes and have shared that.

The only way anyone even knows about this is due to advance info from this site.

Here's my two cents. I live in Denton and we have Movie Tavern (similar to Warren IMHO) and Alamo Draft House. Both places have good food and drinks. Alamo has better craft beer choices. Both have special screenings of old movies. Both have events with Movie Tavern having more trivia type events and Alamo occasionally hosting fundraisers and special screenings for local film festivals. I tend to try to go to Movie Tavern more because they've been a fixture in the community for much longer, but Alamo has a few small advantages. They're 90% the same experience.

No doubt it is a great site Pete. I use it for info regularly. What I’m saying is that maybe the pretense(of which ADH has plenty) has gotten in the way of actual results. And im put off enough that a ( let’s face it)lesser city like Omaha or Lubbock is more online with their corporate plan. I was super excited about this development 2 years ago. Now, I hate to say it. CC is actually on the poor end of this deal. When they could have had aa brick and mortar go up several times over. It’s not a good way for ADH to make a name here. . I’m more impressed by flix Initiative. I’ll probably go there. And I think most people will agree with me in the long run. Or maybe I’m wrong and Lubbock and Omaha really are more exciting markets than we are.

No doubt it is a great site Pete. I use it for info regularly. What I’m saying is that maybe the pretense(of which ADH has plenty) has gotten in the way of actual results. And im put off enough that a ( let’s face it)lesser city like Omaha or Lubbock is more online with their corporate plan. I was super excited about this development 2 years ago. Now, I hate to say it. CC is actually on the poor end of this deal. When they could have had aa brick and mortar go up several times over. It’s not a good way for ADH to make a name here. . I’m more impressed by flix Initiative. I’ll probably go there. And I think most people will agree with me in the long run. Or maybe I’m wrong and Lubbock and Omaha really are more exciting markets than we are.

^

This has much to do with franchisees for various markets.

Alamo Drafthouse probably ain't going to happen now.

Alamo Drafthouse probably ain't going to happen now.

That's not what I was told.

That's not what I was told.

I am glad! Things might be delayed by all this, but I am glad Alamo is still planning on a CC location.

Good news Pete!! Been to the one in Austin many times. It's a great place to go.

lol https://kfor.com/news/local/new-dog-park-restaurant-to-open-in-chisholm-creek/

Can’t tell where in Chisholm this will be going?

Few piles of dirt east of Argon. Anything going on here??

More apartments coming to Chisholm Creek, just west of TopGolf.

240 luxury units yet to be named.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm011521a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm011521b.jpg

Awesome! The dirt piles I saw were east of Argon just off memorial but that’s great news. Any other renderings?

Awesome! The dirt piles I saw were east of Argon just off memorial but that’s great news. Any other renderings?

Nothing is happening east of Argon.

Renderings of the apartments will come later.

when everything is luxury then nothing is luxury. it's just normal.

when everything is luxury then nothing is luxury. it's just normal.

That's deep.

when everything is luxury then nothing is luxury. it's just normal.
Uh, okay. But what is considered luxury is subjective and relative. Saying something is luxury for marketing purposes doesn’t mean it actually IS luxurious. It’s like the word “love”..... WAY over used as a word and WAY underperformed as a reality.

Update from VeloCity

https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/development/growth-continues-at-chisholm-creek/?back=super_blog

A farmer's market on Fridays from 9am-1pm? I guess only people that don't work (or are willing to take off) will be there?

A farmer's market on Fridays from 9am-1pm? I guess only people that don't work (or are willing to take off) will be there?

Or, maybe they aren't trying to compete with other markets that are predominantly Saturday. We will see, but it may be a pretty good strategy.

Believe it or not, there are still quite a few stay at home moms and a few pops too.

Don't get me wrong I certainly hope it will work, was just surprising

A farmer's market on Fridays from 9am-1pm? I guess only people that don't work (or are willing to take off) will be there?

You'd be surprised how many people in this area are either stay at home parents, self employed of some type, or work from home. Meaning, we have very flexible schedules. I see so many people eating brunch on a random weekday that I joke that nobody up here works. Having it on a Friday is really smart and shows how well they know their clientele. The Farmers market will be a huge success.

^

Especially now.

So many people are working from home.

I know that working from home doesn't mean the same thing for everyone, but I worked from home for several months last year. I still had to be by my computer and ready to make or take calls all day or answer emails during normal office hours. I had no time extra time to be out running errands.

I know that working from home doesn't mean the same thing for everyone, but I worked from home for several months last year. I still had to be by my computer and ready to make or take calls all day or answer emails during normal office hours. I had no time extra time to be out running errands.

Yeah, it just depends on your job. I work at home and basically make my own schedule everyday. I have a lot to accomplish, but I can certainly run errands or run in the middle of the day if I want.

so i just heard about this place coming to Chisolm creek? anyone know where? or anything about it?

https://bandeesbbq.com/?fbclid=IwAR28oIzdWnjmOuhr_MPxro1d7DrB915n3GmO-VoQw6UvE4Mrk3S_Fb5-NdM

so i just heard about this place coming to Chisolm creek? anyone know where? or anything about it?

https://bandeesbbq.com/?fbclid=IwAR28oIzdWnjmOuhr_MPxro1d7DrB915n3GmO-VoQw6UvE4Mrk3S_Fb5-NdM

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46113

Weren’t the new apartments supposed to start soon..?