Would they shove out Yokozuna, or complement it? Like Uncle Julio's versus Fuzzy's (though i think Yokozuna is a cut above Fuzzy's comparatively)?. A Benihana would make sense with Ruth's going downtown; aren't they on a similar scale?

Would they shove out Yokozuna, or complement it? Like Uncle Julio's versus Fuzzy's (though i think Yokozuna is a cut above Fuzzy's comparatively)?. A Benihana would make sense with Ruth's going downtown; aren't they on a similar scale?
Ruth's Chris steakhouse is coming here?

First National Center.

https://newsok.com/article/5613869/ruths-chris-steakhouse-to-anchor-first-national

Would they shove out Yokozuna, or complement it? Like Uncle Julio's versus Fuzzy's (though i think Yokozuna is a cut above Fuzzy's comparatively)?. A Benihana would make sense with Ruth's going downtown; aren't they on a similar scale?

Fuzzy's is way different than Uncle Julio's though, same with Yokozuna being more sushi driven than the hibachi focus of Benihana

Something similar to a Benihana would be great for the old Nonna's space in Bricktown

They are planning a smaller office building along Western, just north of Pawnee and to the east of Tract 30.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm121818a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm121818b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm121818c.jpg

More design that is 100% built for cars. Obviously, almost everyone will drive to Chisolm Creek, but the developers didn't even consider customers might consider walking from one building to another. There's no sidewalks or clear paths out of this development. It's really not hard to build in sidewalks and pedestrian connectivity. So many developments elsewhere get this right and those developments tend to have more vibrancy and success long term. I hopefully this "draft" gets an upgrade, but this is already typical of several other components of Chisolm Creek.

So there will be a 2nd Starbucks in Chisholm Creek? Isn't that unnecessary given the one over at Penn & Highland Park?

More design that is 100% built for cars. Obviously, almost everyone will drive to Chisolm Creek, but the developers didn't even consider customers might consider walking from one building to another. There's no sidewalks or clear paths out of this development. It's really not hard to build in sidewalks and pedestrian connectivity. So many developments elsewhere get this right and those developments tend to have more vibrancy and success long term. I hopefully this "draft" gets an upgrade, but this is already typical of several other components of Chisolm Creek.
It would be nice to have ROW in this development preserved for a light rail connection that could traverse over Kilpatrick to Quail Springs.

I am anxious to see the pedestrian oriented aspect of the development come forward, but this is how you build good suburban development.

So there will be a 2nd Starbucks in Chisholm Creek? Isn't that unnecessary given the one over at Penn & Highland Park?

I would think that both would work once the whole project is built out. It would be more likely that I would stop at this new Starbucks given that I am usually on the east side of Chisholm Creek more often than going along Penn. Plus, the lines for Starbucks are outrageous.

Now if this was a Stella Nova or some other competitor to Starbucks I should like it a whole lot more!

More design that is 100% built for cars. Obviously, almost everyone will drive to Chisolm Creek, but the developers didn't even consider customers might consider walking from one building to another. There's no sidewalks or clear paths out of this development. It's really not hard to build in sidewalks and pedestrian connectivity. So many developments elsewhere get this right and those developments tend to have more vibrancy and success long term. I hopefully this "draft" gets an upgrade, but this is already typical of several other components of Chisolm Creek.

I do hate how difficult it is for one to dine at Fuzzy's/RePUBlic and then try and walk to Top Golf, especially at night after a few drinks... No sidewalks and the traffic moves way to fast due to the major thoroughfare...

Stella Nova needs to consider opening a location in Chisholm Creek, or at least somewhere in the Edmond area to compete with other independent coffee shops.

More design that is 100% built for cars. Obviously, almost everyone will drive to Chisolm Creek, but the developers didn't even consider customers might consider walking from one building to another. There's no sidewalks or clear paths out of this development. It's really not hard to build in sidewalks and pedestrian connectivity. So many developments elsewhere get this right and those developments tend to have more vibrancy and success long term. I hopefully this "draft" gets an upgrade, but this is already typical of several other components of Chisolm Creek.

This sure seems like it has the potential to just end up being the North OKC equivalent of University North Park. Hopefully I'm eating my words in a few years...

So basically Chisholm Creek is trying to be what the Domain in Austin is?

They'd have a long way to get there in terms of walkability. On the plus side, the restaurants/bars at Chisholm are better than what's available at the Domain.

The traffic in and out at Western and Pawnee will be terrible due to the abysmal lack of foresight and planning done by OKC. Pete, does OKC have any plans other than more Band-Aids for that intersection and the one at the Kilpatrick and Western?

I guess I missed something like a Fleming's, North or even Maggiano's in Chisholm Creek?

The traffic in and out at Western and Pawnee will be terrible due to the abysmal lack of foresight and planning done by OKC. Pete, does OKC have any plans other than more Band-Aids for that intersection and the one at the Kilpatrick and Western?
I think you already know the answer to this. :p

Fleming's, North, or Maggiano's would all be great additions in Chisholm Creek!

The traffic in and out at Western and Pawnee will be terrible due to the abysmal lack of foresight and planning done by OKC. Pete, does OKC have any plans other than more Band-Aids for that intersection and the one at the Kilpatrick and Western?

Not sure what they could do now. The TP exit complicates traffic exiting at Western (going east). Dumps megatraffic and they have to then traverse all lanes to the right in a short distance to turn right on Western. Unless they took TP exit away? Even widening Memorial eastbound won’t fix this. Not sure what they can do, short of closing TP exit but that would require even more traffic exit at Penn.

What suggestions do you see making this better? And I do agree its a mess and traffic backs up onto turnpike long off ramp next to traffic going 70 which when one is sitting there feels sketchy hoping no one rear ends me going 70. Once I get about 5-6 cars behind me I feel safer but just barely.

Western six lanes. Service roads six lanes. More left and right turn lanes. What else can be done?

Western six lanes. Service roads six lanes. More left and right turn lanes. What else can be done?

Haha, I would like to see what your SimCity or Cities Skylines projects look like!

As for the TP, I say just get rid of both Penn and Western exit ramps. Only allow people to enter the TP at these two points. Next we should let ODOT build a massive boulevard from out west and link it to Memorial... /s

Haha, I would like to see what your SimCity or Cities Skylines projects look like!
I used to be big into video games and I love sim city 4! I haven’t played skylines but I’ve heard it’s amazing.

They need a dedicated u-turn lane under the Western and Penn bridges on the Westbound exits from the TP to start. That would dramatically help the Costco traffic and bypass much of the Penn lights traffic.

I used to be big into video games and I love sim city 4! I haven’t played skylines but I’ve heard it’s amazing.

You can build residential neighborhoods on 16 lane highways.

You can build residential neighborhoods on 16 lane highways.
That’s good stuff. I need to check it out.

Not sure what they could do now. The TP exit complicates traffic exiting at Western (going east). Dumps megatraffic and they have to then traverse all lanes to the right in a short distance to turn right on Western. Unless they took TP exit away? Even widening Memorial eastbound won’t fix this. Not sure what they can do, short of closing TP exit but that would require even more traffic exit at Penn.

What suggestions do you see making this better? And I do agree its a mess and traffic backs up onto turnpike long off ramp next to traffic going 70 which when one is sitting there feels sketchy hoping no one rear ends me going 70. Once I get about 5-6 cars behind me I feel safer but just barely.

OTA:
- puts the EB Western exit just after crossing Penn.
- puts the EB onramp from Penn much closer to Western.
- moves the EB onramp from Western east (problem with making sure it doesn't interfere with the toll plaza).

OKC:
- add dedicated right turn lane on EB service road at Western.
- add dedicated right turn lane into Chisholm Creek from SB Western. Heck, have them put 2 dedicated right turn lanes EB at Western. The one closest to the curb would be dedicated for Chisholm Creek traffic and wouldn't merge onto Western.

That's just for starters.

OTA:
- puts the EB Western exit just after crossing Penn.
- puts the EB onramp from Penn much closer to Western.
- moves the EB onramp from Western east (problem with making sure it doesn't interfere with the toll plaza).

OKC:
- add dedicated right turn lane on EB service road at Western.
- add dedicated right turn lane into Chisholm Creek from SB Western. Heck, have them put 2 dedicated right turn lanes EB at Western. The one closest to the curb would be dedicated for Chisholm Creek traffic and wouldn't merge onto Western.

That's just for starters.

Great post.

On the EB Western onramp to TP, they have room to move it east they can make an extra 4th lane that extends to plaza. And throw in some underneath uturns (Penn/Western).

They do need to move the TP EB to Westen exit ramp back. This would allow more spacing to negotiate to other lanes.

OTA:
- puts the EB Western exit just after crossing Penn.
- puts the EB onramp from Penn much closer to Western.
- moves the EB onramp from Western east (problem with making sure it doesn't interfere with the toll plaza).

OKC:
- add dedicated right turn lane on EB service road at Western.
- add dedicated right turn lane into Chisholm Creek from SB Western. Heck, have them put 2 dedicated right turn lanes EB at Western. The one closest to the curb would be dedicated for Chisholm Creek traffic and wouldn't merge onto Western.

That's just for starters.
This would be a great start! Not too expensive and shouldn’t require too many environmental studies either. This could realistically be done within the next 3 years if they’d start moving forward now.

Thats sort of how the old Dallas LBJ access roads were prior to the recent rebuild. lt worked pretty well there for years.

Strip center to the east of Tract 30:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm012719.jpg

The traffic in and out at Western and Pawnee will be terrible due to the abysmal lack of foresight and planning done by OKC. Pete, does OKC have any plans other than more Band-Aids for that intersection and the one at the Kilpatrick and Western?

I would start by bringing in consultants and planners from other states that clearly have a clue. It is real obvious that the folks running the show in OKC are incompetent when it comes to thinking ahead and managing traffic. Just keep adding homes and businesses to already overcrowded areas is not the answer I can assure you.

Strip center to the east of Tract 30:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm012719.jpg

Can you remind me what is planned to go into this bulding?

Can you remind me what is planned to go into this bulding?

My understanding is that it's just speculative lease space. No tenants have been announced as of yet.

Tract 30 is now basically full.

My understanding is that it's just speculative lease space. No tenants have been announced as of yet.

Tract 30 is now basically full.

CycleBar is one of the tenants I believe

CycleBar is one of the tenants I believe

Yes, that's right. Thanks.

I'm just posting this here for reference but goddamn News9 has got to have some of the most worthless news articles I've ever seen.

http://www.news9.com/story/39962848/chisolm-creek-updates

I'm just posting this here for reference but goddamn News9 has got to have some of the most worthless news articles I've ever seen.

http://www.news9.com/story/39962848/chisolm-creek-updates

Whats wrong with it? Seemed pretty positive. Says $250,000,000 will be built here. Says Costco will also help drive traffic to area.

I maybe missed the bad news what was it?

I'm just posting this here for reference but goddamn News9 has got to have some of the most worthless news articles I've ever seen.

http://www.news9.com/story/39962848/chisolm-creek-updates

Isn't that true of all local news stations here (and News9 can't even spell the name right in the URL, so it's even more pathetic)? Weren't there ads a while back in the Gazette for OKCTalk that said "Where the local news gets their news"? :)

Whats wrong with it? Seemed pretty positive. Says $250,000,000 will be built here. Says Costco will also help drive traffic to area.

I maybe missed the bad news what was it?Good point about the 250 million dollar figure, I hadn't known about that, but still. . . what is in the article that we didn't already know? News 9 articles always seem to be this extremely small article with little to new information. If they sat down and interviewed you would think they could have gotten some more information, but it appears they just sent an email and got a response and turned it into an "article."

Isn't that true of all local news stations here (and News9 can't even spell the name right in the URL, so it's even more pathetic)? Weren't there ads a while back in the Gazette for OKCTalk that said "Where the local news gets their news"? :)
News 4 seems a bit better. I'd rank my personal news favorites in order as OKCTalk, Tulsa World, Gazette, Journal Record, NewsOK, KFOR, Edmond Sun, then News9.

Good point about the 250 million dollar figure, I hadn't known about that, but still. . . what is in the article that we didn't already know? News 9 articles always seem to be this extremely small article with little to new information. If they sat down and interviewed you would think they could have gotten some more information, but it appears they just sent an email and got a response and turned it into an "article."

I think thats the new news all over. Short stories kinda like tweets. Audience these days won’t take time to read actual articles. Its a big problem in my opinion, short attention spans and always looking for the car wreck so to speak. Writers are a dying breed and MSM is all paid off politics now. So the locals go with shorter stories to try an get some attention.

Not sure what they could do now. The TP exit complicates traffic exiting at Western (going east). Dumps megatraffic and they have to then traverse all lanes to the right in a short distance to turn right on Western. Unless they took TP exit away? Even widening Memorial eastbound won’t fix this. Not sure what they can do, short of closing TP exit but that would require even more traffic exit at Penn.

What suggestions do you see making this better? And I do agree its a mess and traffic backs up onto turnpike long off ramp next to traffic going 70 which when one is sitting there feels sketchy hoping no one rear ends me going 70. Once I get about 5-6 cars behind me I feel safer but just barely.

They should've built the ramps further away from the interchange at May, Penn and Western. They should also add ramps at Santa Fe. ODOT and TPA have no idea how to utilize access roads. They should also install Texas U-Turns both directions at May, Penn and Western.

I would start by bringing in consultants and planners from other states that clearly have a clue. It is real obvious that the folks running the show in OKC are incompetent when it comes to thinking ahead and managing traffic. Just keep adding homes and businesses to already overcrowded areas is not the answer I can assure you.

You mean like how even when they expand roads, they still don't add dedicated turn lanes? And how they expand roads in the middle of no where, without touching interchanges with 50K cars a day?

More design that is 100% built for cars. Obviously, almost everyone will drive to Chisolm Creek, but the developers didn't even consider customers might consider walking from one building to another. There's no sidewalks or clear paths out of this development. It's really not hard to build in sidewalks and pedestrian connectivity. So many developments elsewhere get this right and those developments tend to have more vibrancy and success long term. I hopefully this "draft" gets an upgrade, but this is already typical of several other components of Chisolm Creek.

Yeah, this is starting to seem more and more like just another suburban commercial development packed full of chains and you can't even safely walk from one area to another. Basically Tulsa Hills.

Chisholm Creek to start Phase 2 (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=618-Chisholm-Creek-to-start-Phase-2)

Chisholm Creek, the massive 190-acre mixed-use project located between Penn and Western on the south side of Memorial Road, is set to kick-off its second phase.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholmphase2ba.jpg


The end is in sight for the first round of development, which has included Cabela's, Top Golf, iFLY, Argon Apartments, Uncle Julio's, Hopdoddy, Birra Birra, Firebirds, Chalk, and scores of retail, restaurants and office space at Tract 30. Along Penn, a small strip center is home to Starbuck's and Torchy's Tacos, among others. Razzoo's (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=556-Razzoo-s-Slapfish-and-more-coming-to-Chisholm-Creek) is under construction on the west side of the lake and a few more restaurants to the south will complete Phase I.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholmphase2a.jpg


The next large round of development will be located towards the center of the development, with 5-story buildings on either side of a boulevard to feature office space, more apartments, retail at the ground level and 2 parking structures.

Directly south of the lake will be a boutique hotel. Although the operator has not been revealed, renderings show an outdoor pool and rooftop deck.

Plans also indicate that Alamo Draft House would be located just to the south of the new development.

Future phases of Chisholm Creek would include a music venue and much more commercial space and living units as well as miles of walking paths and green space.

The surrounding area continues to see lots of activity, with Costco recently opening to the east and the City of Oklahoma City nearing the finish line on the 80-acre Chisholm Park that borders the development on the southern edge.

Work on Phase 2 should start before the end of the year.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholmphase2c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholmphase2d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholmphase2e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm052619b.jpg

Yeah, this is starting to seem more and more like just another suburban commercial development packed full of chains and you can't even safely walk from one area to another. Basically Tulsa Hills.

Ok then

Looks like IKEA didn’t make the cut.. but TRADER JOES?!?? Please tell me that’s not just a wishful rendering of it..??

Looks like IKEA didn’t make the cut.. but TRADER JOES?!?? Please tell me that’s not just a wishful rendering of it..??

Just a placeholder.

Anything beyond Phase 2 is conceptual. Keep in mind how many times this plan has changed... From Costco, to the Energy Stadium, to Life Time Fitness, etc.

Yeah, this is starting to seem more and more like just another suburban commercial development packed full of chains and you can't even safely walk from one area to another. Basically Tulsa Hills.

Yep. It is basic AF.

But absolutely perfect for the Middle Management types at CHK and DVN.

I’m glad Pete reiterates this is all a placeholder design because, at the moment, except for that one block where the buildings face each other, this looks like several disconnected buildings sitting in a sea of parking. Certainly patrons won’t be walking from one part of this area to another.

Yep. It is basic AF.

But absolutely perfect for the Middle Management types at CHK and DVN.

And it’s different than the highly adored Penn Central... how?

And it’s different than the highly adored Penn Central... how?

Without going back and re-examing Penn Central, from my memory that development looks to be “drive in, park once in structured parking and then walk from place to place.” So far this CC rendering is the opposite. It seems to be about density.

Just for some perspective, Penn Central is 12 acres; Chisholm is 180 acres.

Just for some perspective, Penn Central is 12 acres; Chisholm is 180 acres.

Great point. It’s OKC in microcosm. Big and ambitious idea = lower density, ultimately too much area to fill (see University Town Center and others). I have high hopes for Penn Central: Smaller in area and higher density.

That’s not to suggest I dislike CC. I think it’s elevating Memorial Road quite a bit. But just hard to do a whole quarter section at once.

When you only have 12 acres and you paid a fortune for them, development has to be dense for it to make sense as an investment.

Pete, I totally agree.

My only point is, if you look at the first photo in this article the density is equal that that of Penn Central. While I agree the rest of the development is not as dense, my comment is to phase 2 alone, not the entire development because (as you pointed out), the rest of the development is purely speculative. If you judge Penn Central to purely phase 2, the similarity is striking. It just seems to me developments are more judged by proximity to the core than they are on true quality..

To the comments that’s its just another suburban development.. you’re right. It is suburban. It’s not on 10th street..it’s in far north OKC.. that being said it raises the bar of prior suburban developments and deserves credit where it’s due.

Yes, this phase is very similar to Penn Central, in size, scope and density.

And you won't be able to easily walk from PC to Penn Square or 50 Penn.

Yes, this phase is very similar to Penn Central, in size, scope and density.

And you won't be able to easily walk from PC to Penn Square or 50 Penn.

If the 3 P’s are smart they hire/pay for a shuttle between. Eazy peezy.

I love the Chisholm project it has tons of stuff to do. I went to Chalk a few weeks ago and it was packed (so were all venues). Great service and evening. Nice not to drive to Bricktown.

One last point. In my opinion I think Costco brings in quite a few folks who may not get that way ever or often. Imagine all those shoppers seeing Chisholm with all its options. Its likely some come back having now seen all the venues.