I visited this area for the first time in a while and I must admit that I found it generally underwhelming. I'd hoped OKC might actually get a pseudo-urban lifestyle center like I've seen in numerous other cities, but this is mostly disconnected, car-centric, and lacking in walkability (I'm using Jeff Speck's definition of walkability as being useful, interesting, safe, and comfortable). I completely get that there is going to be a lot of parking at a development like this, but the placement of parking, roads, and sidewalks indicates that people are not supposed to walk between these disconnected buildings. It's really not hard to design a development like this in a way that encourages walking, but it obviously is not a priority. Anyway, I hope it succeeds because it's still better than anything else in this area, but I don't love what they've done.

^^^^^
Agree with all of this. It's nice from an amenities standpoint but really not designed as walkable mixed use, which I think is unfortunate for the development and for the city. Would be great to see an in-market example of a truly walkable suburban development, which I think would drive the adoption of new ideas, new development styles and suburban retro-fits.

^^^^^
Agree with all of this. It's nice from an amenities standpoint but really not designed as walkable mixed use, which I think is unfortunate for the development and for the city. Would be great to see an in-market example of a truly walkable suburban development, which I think would drive the adoption of new ideas, new development styles and suburban retro-fits.

Yep. It's a mix of uses in a large acreage, it's definitely not mixed use. If you live in Argon, is there even a walkable connection right now? And, even if built, how long of a walk is it to Yokuzuna, for instance?

Alamo Drafthouse will be built right to the east of Argon and there will be another development similar to Tract 30 at the south end of the lake.

It all should tie together pretty nicely and remember, there is a huge OKC park under construction just to the south.

Alamo Drafthouse will be built right to the east of Argon and there will be another development similar to Tract 30 at the south end of the lake.

It all should tie together pretty nicely and remember, there is a huge OKC park under construction just to the south.

Has there been any word on Alamo Drafthouse? I am still skeptical that they will end up there (at least with the ability to show first-runs) due to the proximity to AMC at Quail Springs.

Has there been any word on Alamo Drafthouse? I am still skeptical that they will end up there (at least with the ability to show first-runs) due to the proximity to AMC at Quail Springs.

Deal is being finalized and they are well aware of the AMC issue, from what I've been told by people in the know.

Keep in mind that the truly walkable areas haven't started construction yet.
http://www.chisholmcreek.com/sites/default/files/CCMP_DEC_2016_v01_reduced.jpg

nm

Yeah, I hope when this is all developed out it proves me wrong, but I went to Republic and I didn't see any obvious paths to the pond area or Top Golf -- both areas pretty close to Tract 30. Again, it's not just that there are sidewalks, but how they interact with the development.

Unfortunately, even a development that checks most walkability boxes like Classen Curve still is largely ineffective just because the retail dimensions are too big. Therefore, people rarely seem to actually walk from Upper Crust to Red Coyote. Walkability is a sensitive thing -- fail in just one area and people won't walk.

They could use a stoplight at the intersection, or at least an on-demand pedestrian crossing light you can push. But it looks like there is a walkway from a central location in the parking lot, to the wide median area, and to the sidewalk next to TopGolf. A little shy of 0.2 mile of a walk.

Yeah, I hope when this is all developed out it proves me wrong, but I went to Republic and I didn't see any obvious paths to the pond area or Top Golf -- both areas pretty close to Tract 30. Again, it's not just that there are sidewalks, but how they interact with the development.

Unfortunately, even a development that checks most walkability boxes like Classen Curve still is largely ineffective just because the retail dimensions are too big. Therefore, people rarely seem to actually walk from Upper Crust to Red Coyote. Walkability is a sensitive thing -- fail in just one area and people won't walk.

I actually did this very thing saturday, walked from topgolf to sidecar. It's not an easy walk. No sidewalks, no crosswalks, busy street and parking lot.

Keep in mind that the truly walkable areas haven't started construction yet.
http://www.chisholmcreek.com/sites/default/files/CCMP_DEC_2016_v01_reduced.jpg
Shhhhh, let them whine and moan!

Shhhhh, let them whine and moan!

Usually I don’t like these kinds of comments, but you are correct. These people complaining should have known from the start is was planned to be this way. These areas they are complaining about first were always going to be like this and the first phase. I don’t know what more they want but if they are skeptical that the future phases won’t be built then that can be a valid point.

PS, Dankrutas comment about there not being a walkway from Tract 30 to The Pointe development is a valid one. They ought to fix that which is not very difficulty to do.

Shhhhh, let them whine and moan!

???

Having a single intersection with four corners at zero setback doesn't magically make everything else more walkable. Tract 30 for instance will still be an island. I don't think anyone is saying it's not a far nicer development than what we are used to. Just saying it stops short of being the type of game changer it could be.

And by the way, this thread is a perfect example of why I think "walkability" is a terribly misunderstood term. It is NOT synonymous with accessibility (though Chisholm Creek even struggles a bit in this respect too). I think the term "walk appeal" is a better descriptor. The question is how likely are you to WANT to stroll from one end of this development to the other? Or even more than the equivalent of block or so? The answer: not very likely.

^^^
Bingo. Walkability is a fixture of new urbanism and quality walkable developments. It doesn't mean *can* someone walk somewhere, it asks whether people *will* walk somewhere based on specific factors. The renderings don't change one thing any of us said that critiqued this development. I also said I hope this development does well and primarily commented on parts that are already complete, but I guess constructive and specific criticism is whining and moaning. /s

Keep in mind that the truly walkable areas haven't started construction yet.
http://www.chisholmcreek.com/sites/default/files/CCMP_DEC_2016_v01_reduced.jpg

The only thing in this completed rendering that even looks remotely walkable is the traffic circle in the middle. Is that what you're referring to?

Seems to me they started with the low hanging fruit. Suburban developments which are easy to get to by car. This will establish some retail and commercial numbers and proof of concept to get the more walkable areas preleased/financed.

That’s what I think anyway.

The only thing in this completed rendering that even looks remotely walkable is the traffic circle in the middle. Is that what you're referring to?

Yes, along with the four streets that radiate from it.

^^^
Bingo. Walkability is a fixture of new urbanism and quality walkable developments. It doesn't mean *can* someone walk somewhere, it asks whether people *will* walk somewhere based on specific factors. The renderings don't change one thing any of us said that critiqued this development. I also said I hope this development does well and primarily commented on parts that are already complete, but I guess constructive and specific criticism is whining and moaning. /s

YASSS.

It's a pretty development, stocked with a lot of good restaurants and destinations already. But it's not easy to walk among, even if it's built out. Especially if they are already at "finished" condition on some of the places where you'd want better pedestrian paths.

I think the streets between Blackwelder over to the Cabela's parking lot, from Highland Park to the new apartments are being ignored here as walkable mixed use areas. This is a long term development that seems to be condemned on here based on about 15% completion.

Come on Rover. Nobody is condemning. Heck, I haven't even seen anyone suggest it's not what it is; an incredibly nice and relatively upscale commercial center. I especially like that it freely incorporates local options and not just national credit tenants.

It's only a miss from a true walkability standpoint. That's no condemnation. Just recognition that it doesn't deviate THAT much from the default auto-centric development we usually get in OKC. The people commenting - myself included - are just hoping for a development in OKC which clearly demonstrates that "suburban" and "walkable" are not mutually exclusive. This development moves that particular needle a bit, but not as much as it could have.

After going on holiday in Europe, I will miss being able to walk around everywhere. I'll also back track from previous discussions and add this to the lack of parking lot complaints.

It's only a miss from a true walkability standpoint. That's no condemnation. Just recognition that it doesn't deviate THAT much from the default auto-centric development we usually get in OKC. The people commenting - myself included - are just hoping for a development in OKC which clearly demonstrates that "suburban" and "walkable" are not mutually exclusive. This development moves that particular needle a bit, but not as much as it could have.

Lifestyle centers have been common in suburban areas of other cities for well over a decade now. Even Little Rock has a few of them. I wonder why OKC (or Oklahoma in general for that matter since Tulsa doesn't have one either) has struggled to get one period? I'm hoping the "town center" portion of this or the Glimcher development eventually get built because I think that will change the way shopping centers in OKC are developed.

After going on holiday in Europe, I will miss being able to walk around everywhere. I'll also back track from previous discussions and add this to the lack of parking lot complaints.

"On holiday?"

Now you're just trying to hard to sound non-American ;)

Is there an oil rig next to Tract 30? It looked like they were drilling when I drove by earlier....

Is there an oil rig next to Tract 30? It looked like they were drilling when I drove by earlier....

Work over maybe. Don’t think there’s a full blown horizontal. There is a well by the sky diving pace

"On holiday?"

Now you're just trying to hard to sound non-American ;)

When I lived in LA (Hermosa Beach), "on holiday" was common usage for "on vacation" in my circle of friends. But some of my friends spent a lot of time living and traveling in Australia and Europe, including myself.

When I lived in LA (Hermosa Beach), "on holiday" was common usage for "on vacation" in my circle of friends. But some of my friends spent a lot of time living and traveling in Australia and Europe, including myself.

FWIW they weren't wrong. What's even worse is that I may try to keep an accent that isn't supposed to be there in the first place.

It is a work over rig. Should only be there for a week or two at max. It seems they were at the well not too long ago...

BURN by Rocky Patel, the luxury cigar lounge, announced that it will have its grand opening on Thursday, June 21, from 6:30 p.m. - 2:00 a.m.

Just FYI, BURN is quietly already open.

Just FYI, BURN is quietly already open.

Pete, did we coincidentally both post about BURN at nearly the same time, or are you just that quick on your replies??

Pete, did we coincidentally both post about BURN at nearly the same time, or are you just that quick on your replies??

I'm just that quick!

Pete, did we coincidentally both post about BURN at nearly the same time, or are you just that quick on your replies??

I think he is a time traveler, or at least possesses the ability to see forward in time. How else can he get all of these scoops for OKCTalk?

Just FYI, BURN is quietly already open.

As of last week, didn't have their liquor license yet so only beer and wine. Great humidor.

^^^^^^
Agreed about the humidor. The interior is also pretty fantastic. When I was there last week I'm pretty sure they had the license squared away and were just waiting on their first liquor delivery.

According to a post on the CC Instagram account, Bibi's Craft Ice Cream is coming to The Pointe.

Where is Burn located? I drover all around but never found it.

Where is Burn located? I drove all around but never found it.

Where is Burn located? I drover all around but never found it.

I've had that problem at CC too. I get that the developers aren't into the big signs you would normally find at a commercial development, but I would argue that people should be able to find an establishment with a relative amount of ease. Most of that Tract 30 area is set up in a way that forces you to explore on foot for 10-15 minutes before you find the business/restaurant you're looking for. I think Sidecar is a great example of that. It's not a simple place to find, especially if you've never been to CC before.

According to a post on the CC Instagram account, Bibi's Craft Ice Cream is coming to The Pointe.

Are they local? I couldn't find anything about them on Facebook.

Bibi's is the name the Provision Concepts guys have given to the ice cream place going in between Birra Birra and Hopdoddy.

Soccer stadium coming to Chisholm Creek:

http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=520-Soccer-stadium-planned-for-far-North-OKC

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chisholm070818a.jpg

This area will be very beautiful with the new Soccer stadium complete. The lake looks much more welcoming to foot traffic than the other sections of this development. What about the land north of the "chalk?" Hopefully that becomes green space to allow more area to walk off the calories from my enchiladas.

14754

Noticed this today when trying to find something on Google Maps. None of the establishments have been built yet. The date says 2018, but it is clearly not from 2018....

This area will be very beautiful with the new Soccer stadium complete. The lake looks much more welcoming to foot traffic than the other sections of this development. What about the land north of the "chalk?" Hopefully that becomes green space to allow more area to walk off the calories from my enchiladas.

It’s too bad that Uncle Julio’s has such abysmal service. I’ve been twice, and both times at least one person in my party has managed to get food comped because the service was so wildly incompetent. I’d like to think that management will get it straightened out, but I certainly have my doubts.

It’s too bad that Uncle Julio’s has such abysmal service. I’ve been twice, and both times at least one person in my party has managed to get food comped because the service was so wildly incompetent. I’d like to think that management will get it straightened out, but I certainly have my doubts.

Why do you doubt a 2 month old restaurant will get it figured out?

Why do you doubt a 2 month old restaurant will get it figured out?

They are not reinventing the wheel here. They have opened over 25 other locations previously so why the slow learning curve? This is not a local first time location. This chain is operated by a corporation.

14754

Noticed this today when trying to find something on Google Maps. None of the establishments have been built yet. The date says 2018, but it is clearly not from 2018....

Click 3D ON from the top left corner menu tab and it will show most recent

I’ve noticed this too (about Google Earth). I click on it every few weeks to see if it’s updated and use Chisholm Creek as my guide. Mine still looks like the one above in DITM’s post. When I click on It, my menu doesn’t have a 3D on option. I’ve even deleted the app and tried to reinstall it and it still isn’t updated.

I just thought OKC hadn’t been updated in a long time.

It’s too bad that Uncle Julio’s has such abysmal service. I’ve been twice, and both times at least one person in my party has managed to get food comped because the service was so wildly incompetent. I’d like to think that management will get it straightened out, but I certainly have my doubts.

I think this has a lot to do with the shortage of good help in OKC. It's only going to get worse as more places open. Uncle Julios may be able to pull some higher quality people from other chain restaurants as time goes on.

I think this has a lot to do with the shortage of good help in OKC. It's only going to get worse as more places open. Uncle Julios may be able to pull some higher quality people from other chain restaurants as time goes on.

Uncle Julio's isnt a steakhouse...

Uncle Julio's isnt a steakhouse...

It's also not a Taco Bell. The unemployment rate is currently low so it doesnt have to be a super high end restuarant to have trouble finding good people.

It's also not a Taco Bell. The unemployment rate is currently low so it doesnt have to be a super high end restuarant to have trouble finding good people.

careful now with this kind of logic and expressing it on here... this brings out the "companies can always find employees if they just pay enough" people...

careful now with this kind of logic and expressing it on here... this brings out the "companies can always find employees if they just pay enough" people...
Is this not true, in your opinion?

careful now with this kind of logic and expressing it on here... this brings out the "companies can always find employees if they just pay enough" people...

Haha, yeah that is a basic supply and demand concept. Hence, my earlier comment about them eventually pulling workers from other restaurants. Besides refining operations, they are also going through weeds from the initial hiring drive they had to so before they opened

Is this not true, in your opinion?

not when unemployment is this low... because the end result is that you usually just take employees from another business, which just creates another open position to be filled... it shifts the demand, it doesn't actually meet the demand. so now you have another restaurant (in the example) that is not able to fill positions... so the idea that if everyone just paid more they would fill their positions if false.

not when unemployment is this low... because the end result is that you usually just take employees from another business, which just creates another open position to be filled... it shifts the demand, it doesn't actually meet the demand. so now you have another restaurant (in the example) that is not able to fill positions... so the idea that if everyone just paid more they would fill their positions if false.
Makes sense.