Just a heads up regarding a proper Old Fashioned (which R&J and Ludivine both do very well), the only thing that should be muddled is the sugar and bitters, the orange and cherry are garnishes. If you've have an Old Fashioned with muddle orange/cherry... They did it wrong. Now, if that's how you prefer it, then let them know, I'm sure they would be more than happy to accommodate. Also, a true Old Fashion is basically two (plus) fingers of straight bourbon/rye (depending on what you order). This means a minimum of 3oz of 80+ (some bourbons get up into the 120's in proof), it's a VERY boozy drink. But, it's supposed to be.

Just a heads up regarding a proper Old Fashioned (which R&J and Ludivine both do very well), the only thing that should be muddled is the sugar and bitters, the orange and cherry are garnishes. If you've have an Old Fashioned with muddle orange/cherry... They did it wrong. Now, if that's how you prefer it, then let them know, I'm sure they would be more than happy to accommodate. Also, a true Old Fashion is basically two (plus) fingers of straight bourbon/rye (depending on what you order). This means a minimum of 3oz of 80+ (some bourbons get up into the 120's in proof), it's a VERY boozy drink. But, it's supposed to be.

My comparison is the old fashion at WSKY and it tasted nothing like it. I am wondering if she made us a Manhattan instead because what we was served was not good.

I think I've had an old-fashioned at R&J, and I don't remember (nor think they would serve) it in a Martini glass. That would be pretty contrary to the whole point of the place anyway which is to go back in time.

And to be sure, as a server I have more than once made the mistake of bringing a Manhattan to someone who ordered an old fashioned and vice-versa. They're both 3 syllable whiskey drinks with emphasis on the same 2nd syllable vowel...you put the drink order in 2 or 3 minutes after you take the order because something else occuppied your time and things happen.

I sometimes completely forget what someone orders and cycle through my head "liquor, beer, or wine?", "vodka, gin, tequila, rum etc?", then think "okay, gin: which gin? Gin with mixer, Gimlet, Tom Collins, etc" (just kidding, nobody likes Gin :P)...I think most of the time I end up reasking, but if I don't have time, I take a shot and move on.

I think I've had an old-fashioned at R&J, and I don't remember (nor think they would serve) it in a Martini glass. That would be pretty contrary to the whole point of the place anyway which is to go back in time.

And to be sure, as a server I have more than once made the mistake of bringing a Manhattan to someone who ordered an old fashioned and vice-versa. They're both 3 syllable whiskey drinks with emphasis on the same 2nd syllable vowel...you put the drink order in 2 or 3 minutes after you take the order because something else occuppied your time and things happen.

I sometimes completely forget what someone orders and cycle through my head "liquor, beer, or wine?", "vodka, gin, tequila, rum etc?", then think "okay, gin: which gin? Gin with mixer, Gimlet, Tom Collins, etc" (just kidding, nobody likes Gin :P)...I think most of the time I end up reasking, but if I don't have time, I take a shot and move on.

Really, you just guess when you forget? Why don't you write it down? Or do you work in one of those places where it's so cool to not write an order down? And if so, that's why I like my servers to write my order down, no guessing, no re-asking, and what should come out is what I ordered (unless the kitchen screws it up).

Really, you just guess when you forget? Why don't you write it down? Or do you work in one of those places where it's so cool to not write an order down? And if so, that's why I like my servers to write my order down, no guessing, no re-asking, and what should come out is what I ordered (unless the kitchen screws it up).

I'll write your food order down 98.5% of the time (although sometimes to my and the guest's chagrin, since guests occasionally think they ordered things they never did). I'll even write your drink order down if you're in a group of 8 or more.

For more reasons than "looking cool", I'm not writing down 1 Coke, 1 Corona Salt and Lime, and 2 Grey Goose and Sodas for a 4 top. I'm just not and I know of no good server that does. Ocassionally that results in a wrong drink on the table, however it always gets remedied immediately if the guest brings it to my attention, and often results in a free drink.

Simply remembering 'Old Fashioned' is not sufficient as they have five different types and an 'Old Fashioned' section on the cocktail menu:

http://rjsupperclub.com/menu

If one can't remember orders 100% of the time, then one needs to write orders down 100% of the time.

I'll write your food order down 98.5% of the time (although sometimes to my and the guest's chagrin, since guests occasionally think they ordered things they never did). I'll even write your drink order down if you're in a group of 8 or more.

For more reasons than "looking cool", I'm not writing down 1 Coke, 1 Corona Salt and Lime, and 2 Grey Goose and Sodas for a 4 top. I'm just not and I know of no good server that does. Ocassionally that results in a wrong drink on the table, however it always gets remedied immediately if the guest brings it to my attention, and often results in a free drink.

That drink order is simple enough to not be written down, agreed, but where's the line you draw? If that's the 3rd table you've taken an order from and haven't written the others down, do you start writing? Do you wait until the 3rd person orders and it's a complex drink and then say "wait, let me write this down" or just go for it and hope you remember? I'm not a server, never have been, but worked almost every other restaurant job, so I actually don't know the mechanics/thought process that goes into writing or not writing an order down.

And, BTW, what is the point of a server not writing an order down, especially if it's complex, which it can get quickly if there's more than 2 people and they don't just order a #4 with fries and a wedge salad with ranch on the side (don't know where you currently work or have worked, so those are just menu items I pulled out of the air)? Is it just policy at certain restaurants, is it set by the manager, is it decided by the servers, ....?

Simply remembering 'Old Fashioned' is not sufficient as they have five different types and an 'Old Fashioned' section on the cocktail menu:

http://rjsupperclub.com/menu

If one can't remember orders 100% of the time, then one needs to write orders down 100% of the time.

Thank you for your opinion. The collective of servers will happily and immediately disregard it. :)


That drink order is simple enough to not be written down, agreed, but where's the line you draw? If that's the 3rd table you've taken an order from and haven't written the others down, do you start writing? Do you wait until the 3rd person orders and it's a complex drink and then say "wait, let me write this down" or just go for it and hope you remember? I'm not a server, never have been, but worked almost every other restaurant job, so I actually don't know the mechanics/thought process that goes into writing or not writing an order down.

And, BTW, what is the point of a server not writing an order down, especially if it's complex, which it can get quickly if there's more than 2 people and they don't just order a #4 with fries and a wedge salad with ranch on the side (don't know where you currently work or have worked, so those are just menu items I pulled out of the air)? Is it just policy at certain restaurants, is it set by the manager, is it decided by the servers, ....?

It depends greatly on a number of factors.

1. It is a rare occasion that a server down here in Argentina writes down my order. (Of course, it would be equally ridiculous for me to start asking for things to be pan seared instaed of grilled and blackened with lite salt and the vegetables with no peas.) So it can be cultural including cultural within a restaurant. I've never worked in a restaurant where I would feel comfortable memorizing orders because the restaurants I've worked in seem to have their menus contorted in all sorts of bizarre forms by guests.

2. As rare as it is for a server to write down a drink order for a reasonable number of people, it is equally rare for servers, in my experience, to not write food orders down (Appetizers and Desserts withstanding). I've come across a few servers who don't usually write down orders for normal tables (4 or less), and I myself occasionally did that for sundy reasons, but it's rare, and everyone has their limits.

3. Generally once you take a drink order, you turn it in. I can't think of a time where I was bobbling 3 different drink orders in my head (of course, if it came to that, there's no way I would remember that moment in my life because when it gets that busy you're out of your mind and everything becomes instinctual).

4. You learn your limits as a server and you move forward from there. I've made plenty of mistakes simply writing down an order wrong, hearing wrong, or writing down exactly what the guest said and them not realizing they were the one's who screwed up.

As for the theory behind not writing things down, and especially why I would be opposed to writing drink orders down, even if it causes an occasional hiccup:The job of a server is not to take orders and run food. The job of the server is to play arguably the most crucial role in creating a guest experience that makes them feel really good about paying 300% to 500% markup on something they could generally make at home themselves. The goal is for the guest to feel like...a guest. If I'm looking down at a piece of paper writing "Franziskaner Heffeweissen and Spinach Artichoke Dip" instead of looking at you in the eyes for the first 120 seconds I get to take care of you, I've already hampered my ability to
1. Read your face to understand how you're doing throughout the course of the meal.
2. Treated you as though you're just another person walking through the doors (and while you are, we like you to think we care, and if you're pleseant enough, we will)
3. Be present at the table instead of thinking about other tables or what we're going to do when we get off work
4. Control the table and effectively converse about products (potentially upsell).
5. Not waste paper and ink.

I'm sure there are several more, but those are among the most important. It's well worth the possibility of bringing the wrong drink to not give those things up.

And guess what...sometimes we just make a mistake. Everyone does it in their job, luckily in ours, it's just dinner.

Great explanations, thanks. Didn't realize you were just talking about drink orders, so that method (not write it down and turn it in immediately afterwards) does make sense. I have, however, dined at multiple restaurants (in OKC and other cities here in the USA) where servers wrote nothing down. *Most* of the time it worked, but there have been an unacceptable (to me) number of re-askings or wrong items delivered, so I've always thought (as you do) that not writing down main food orders isn't good. Also nice to hear you say that you're basically the face of the restaurant and you don't want to screw that up, wish a lot of other servers thought that way too.

Thank you for your opinion. The collective of servers will happily and immediately disregard it. :)

They would do well to heed it.

You are spot on that the job of a server is to manage the guests' experience and make them feel good about spending a ton more money than they would if they stayed home. Suffice it to say, that experience goes down the drain quickly when an incorrect order is delivered or something is forgotten simply because the server thinks eye contact is more important than pen and paper.

There is an old saying in this business, "the food will bring them back, but the service will drive them away."

They would do well to heed it.

You are spot on that the job of a server is to manage the guests' experience and make them feel good about spending a ton more money than they would if they stayed home. Suffice it to say, that experience goes down the drain quickly when an incorrect order is delivered or something is forgotten simply because the server thinks eye contact is more important than pen and paper.

There is an old saying in this business, "the food will bring them back, but the service will drive them away."

I would not do well to heed it because your request is for 100%. Perfection doesn't exist. Your remedy for a mistake is to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Now yeah, if a server forgets things on a daily basis at multiple tables, there's a problem.

Ocassionally forgetting that someone ordered an old-fashioned instead of a Manhattan is not a grave mistake and is not going to drive a guest away...if the restaurant simply knows how to respond to a mistake. Plenty of mistakes happen simply by hitting the wrong button in the computer and it doesn't send guests fleeing from restaurants. Not handling a problem correctly is what will drive people away.

Speaking of Old Fashions, a several of us had a semi-awful experience at R&J's. After a City meeting, we went over there. I ordered two Olde Styles (beer) and was brought two Old Fashioned drinks. Mind you we had several rounds of Gin and Tonic's and were shifting gears. I thought maybe I had transposed my request the server. and misspoke. Several people at the table confirmed that I had not misspoke and actually ordered two Olde Styles.

Regardless, the server glared at me, took our mistaken Old Fashioned beverages, and angrily dumped them out behind the bar. He also made it a point to tell me that I was mistaken and I had actually ordered the two Old Fashioned drinks, "but that it was ok". He then came back and abruptly plopped down the two beer chasers. At the end of the night, I was dismayed to find that we had been charged for the two drinks.

I took it up with the manager, and he corrected the situation, was kind, and apologetic. This was a couple of weeks ago. I refrained from writing about it because I really like R&J's. However, I think that the point needs to be made online that the hipster server was an ass**** and the manager was ideal. When folks such as myself go into a establishment such as R&J's, we expect to be treated royally. Unless you are flat out drunk or trying to be malevolent, there is no reason for server not to respect your assertion that a mistake was made even if you are truly wrong.

I will be returning to R&J's. It is a great place. But for servers reading this post, treat your customers right. I acted kindly and was treated in a highly undignified manner in a very dignified place. If I was in a different mood, the incident might have actually gone down much differently with that ass****.

Man, reading about how R&J keeps f-ing up is disheartening, our first visit was so good, didn't expect them to slide downhill, but it sounds like the managers know about it, so hopefully they can get it fixed. Hope Ludivine isn't experiencing a similar slide (haven't been there in a year or so, need to go soon).

As Pete has pointed out repeatedly, so many new restaurants that everyone is scrambling for quality staff.

Not being there right now makes it hard to be super aware of what's up, but it seems like full-service openings in the core have slowed down in 2016 compared to the last 3 years, and certainly we don't have as many massive projects like Fassler, Whiskey Cake, 23rd and Walker so hopefully that helps a bit.

Man, reading about how R&J keeps f-ing up is disheartening, our first visit was so good, didn't expect them to slide downhill, but it sounds like the managers know about it, so hopefully they can get it fixed. Hope Ludivine isn't experiencing a similar slide (haven't been there in a year or so, need to go soon).

Went to Ludivine a few Fridays ago and it was packed and delicious, as always. Funny enough, I enjoyed a fantastic Old Fashioned.

Indignant service at R&J's is the reason I prefer the Rockford when it is throwback time.

Went to Ludivine a few Fridays ago and it was packed and delicious, as always. Funny enough, I enjoyed a fantastic Old Fashioned.

Indignant service at R&J's is the reason I prefer the Rockford when it is throwback time.

Ha, funny about your drink, but good to hear about Ludivine, we'll give R&J a while to get it together and give them one more shot...

I stopped in this place and chatted with a friend for a couple hours. I really love the ambience and theme. The drinks, food, and service were all great. I also checked out the upstairs space and it's really amazing. If you're having an event of just getting a group of 10-15 then this is a great space. One critique is that I wish the waitstaff dressed to the theme. A 50s look is pretty fun and could be done well without being corny. Anyway, I just think this place is a great.