Call me crazy or naive but am I the only one who think businesses care about profit? If a bunch of restaurants think they can make a boatload of money on the south side (or anywhere) wouldn't they do it? I don't know. I guess I don't subscribe to the theory some of these corporations (some of them national) have a biases against South OKC.

I went and ate at The Garage on 240 last night. I was out running some errands and I was wanting something different. It's great, don't get me wrong, but had their been some more unique nicer places, I would have chose that instead. The restaurant was packed, which I thought was kind of unusual for a Wednesday night. I've been in the one in Edmond and it wasn't even half this busy. I kept thinking of this thread while I sat there, thinking I wonder how many of these people would be in nicer restaurants if there were a few more choices.

Every kid in Harlem owns a pair of $200 air Jordans, I am telling you people have money in S. Okc , buffets exist everywhere and if i want a 15 dollar salad ill go to Charlestons, however if I want a slice of Hideaway pizza I have to drive 20-minutes to get one, Sushi Hyiashi ( i think ) is good so I've heard. I just dont understand why we are always passed by for a north side local.

Really?

So what do you offer as a solution to the south side getting more places people want to come?

South side doesn't have the medical, energy, and fiancial offices like the north side does. Or Audrey building huge corporate campuses. LOL

This helps in bringing people from out of state that restaurants pay attention to.

Also, I'm sure their lunch crowds are larger.

Here's all the explanation you need: North OKC = West, Sushi Neko, $15 salads. South OKC = Okie Tonk Cafe, Catfish Cabin, land of the super buffets.

There are some significant cultural differences north and south of I-40. It effects spending habits, frequency of eating out, price per ticket, everything....

Don't forget to complete the perpetuation of the stereotype with pickups, rednecks, and rifles. Maybe a confederate flag while you're at it. And we won't even bother talking about one of the first "new" Golden Corrals was on NW expressway on the hallowed northside, predating the rebuild of the one on I-240 by at least a year.

Sickening.

And so long as we have plenty of people around to perpetuate the stereotype, we know that the businesses who might be persuaded to look at facts rather than prejudice will more than likely succumb to the beliefs and biases of the past, and the crap will continue to run downhilll on S. OKC....

...UNTIL someone, perhaps someone with connections to long-time S. OKC champions like J.W. Mashburn and Paul Odom, can bend the ear of the right people and get someone to take that chance.....and write a new kind of history that will make those who want to perpetuate the stereotypes look really, really foolish.

A Hideaway Pizza at SW 104th and May would be hugely successful. So would a Shogun steak house, anywhere around the 104th/119th corridor. Just SOMEONE to BUILD an example of what we're talking about to prove all the haters wrong...

Wish I had that kind of money to invest in a nice restaurant, or had the business acumen to be one of those folks, but I just don't. Wish I could do more than just fight the stereotypes here on a message board.

Call me crazy or naive but am I the only one who think businesses care about profit? If a bunch of restaurants think they can make a boatload of money on the south side (or anywhere) wouldn't they do it? I don't know. I guess I don't subscribe to the theory some of these corporations (some of them national) have a biases against South OKC.

Well do you buy the concept that some of these corporations have biases against OKC? Where's our Costco? Where's our Ikea? etc.

Well do you buy the concept that some of these corporations have biases against OKC? Where's our Costco? Where's our Ikea? etc.

Would there be enough business in OKC to keep a Costco or Ikea going and if they build one I don't think it will be on the south side, probably out where the big mall is at.

Would there be enough business in OKC to keep a Costco or Ikea going and if they build one I don't think it will be on the south side, probably out where the big mall is at.

You're right. If I were placing a sim-Costco or sim-Ikea in OKC, it wouldn't be on the southside, but that's priimarily because I would want to be in a position to not complete with my sim-Dallas stores. I just wanted to counter with the idea that there DOES seem to be a bias out there that makes the business formulas not like OKC. Probably there's some way that the formulas don't favor South OKC, as well.

You're right. If I were placing a sim-Costco or sim-Ikea in OKC, it wouldn't be on the southside, but that's priimarily because I would want to be in a position to not complete with my sim-Dallas stores. I just wanted to counter with the idea that there DOES seem to be a bias out there that makes the business formulas not like OKC. Probably there's some way that the formulas don't favor South OKC, as well.

Are there people in power that don't want new business like Costco to come in? Afraid it would take away business from other places?

Are there people in power that don't want new business like Costco to come in? Afraid it would take away business from other places?

I don't think so. I just think that a lot of the numbers that businesses use to decide whether or not to expand into OKC don't reflect the reality of this market.

Don't forget to complete the perpetuation of the stereotype with pickups, rednecks, and rifles. Maybe a confederate flag while you're at it. And we won't even bother talking about one of the first "new" Golden Corrals was on NW expressway on the hallowed northside, predating the rebuild of the one on I-240 by at least a year.

Sickening.

And so long as we have plenty of people around to perpetuate the stereotype, we know that the businesses who might be persuaded to look at facts rather than prejudice will more than likely succumb to the beliefs and biases of the past, and the crap will continue to run downhilll on S. OKC....

...UNTIL someone, perhaps someone with connections to long-time S. OKC champions like J.W. Mashburn and Paul Odom, can bend the ear of the right people and get someone to take that chance.....and write a new kind of history that will make those who want to perpetuate the stereotypes look really, really foolish.

A Hideaway Pizza at SW 104th and May would be hugely successful. So would a Shogun steak house, anywhere around the 104th/119th corridor. Just SOMEONE to BUILD an example of what we're talking about to prove all the haters wrong...

Wish I had that kind of money to invest in a nice restaurant, or had the business acumen to be one of those folks, but I just don't. Wish I could do more than just fight the stereotypes here on a message board.

I 100% agree. The first restaurant to build on May whether it be 104th or 119th will most likely be the first of several to follow.

Well do you buy the concept that some of these corporations have biases against OKC? Where's our Costco? Where's our Ikea? etc.

No, I don't think those corporations have some bias against OKC. I think they look at whatever numbers are important to them and base their decisions on that.

Don't forget to complete the perpetuation of the stereotype with pickups, rednecks, and rifles. Maybe a confederate flag while you're at it. .

I have no idea where this stereotype could come from lol.
7542

As powerful and influential as Odom & Mashburn are they have fought hard for everything the South has. JW is around 80 and is still pounding the streets trying to attract business to our community. Paul is younger and you will not find a better Champion for this side of town 4 generations of Odom's putting Southside first. But the bottom line is we are getting left in the dust. We need young energetic folks from the south to start turning this around before SW 104th looks like SW 29th.

Having lived both north and south, my gut tells me that the map of gross disposable income leads north. I'd say that their gut tells them they want to swim in the deepest water and amongst folks whose income has developed a more varied or discriminating palate through travel and other exposures. Not knocking southsiders one bit. Just the impression I get from management friends in the industry.

I don't know. I've met A LOT of posers on the northside who think they're cultured. On the other hand, I know quite a few ex-military folks on the southside that spent most of their service time abroad and often enjoyed local cuisine.

I think most of the hipsters and rich kids up north wouldn't know authentic Korean or Middle Eastern dishes if it kicked them in the kimchee.

Grew up a north side girl who enjoyed eating out. It never crossed my mind to drive all the way to the south side. I rarely crossed the river and if I drove to say, Dallas, I usually took the crosstown and caught I35 from there. If I drove I240, I noticed the car dealerships and the like. I thought south Oklahoma City was poor, full of old, small houses with nothing but Hispanic businesses and dirty little diners.

Was courted, long distance, by a Mustang boy who had moved the Washington DC. I had no idea - none - about the huge imprint of aviation or Tinker on OKC. Married, moved back east and ten years later resettled back home in OKC on the far SW side.

OMG. I didn't even know this area existed. It's vibrant, plenty of places to eat (although few of the cool ones I used to go to), affordable, some decent schools, lots nearer Norman if you like that. At this point, I rarely go to the north side because it takes awhile and I can't imagine being on the lunch clock and able to find that.

I definitely think the right kind of cool restaurant would work here but I also think there are some cultural differences and biases that would run against it. I mean, there's a whole young north side professional crowd that resists patronizing a north side suburban place and they darn sure aren't driving to the south side until a cool place pops up. They have too many good choices already available to them to make the drive. I know a lot of aviation professionals who frequent south side eateries but most of them either go in groups from work (Friday lunch) or it's the kind of thing they do with their spouse when out running errands on the weekend. Plenty of money around here, no doubt, but not typically as easily spent.

I was going to start a similar thread, and there is no doubt that the South OKC gets overlooked by everything. Last week I heard Top Golf and Costco were looking at building up on Memorial. What happened to the so called South Side Renaissance. They still cant figure out what to do with Crossroads Mall 10 years later, The AMC movie theatre by Crossroads is all but dead, because everyone go's to the Warren. The I-240 corridor between May and Shields still looks like crap. I remember hearing 5 years ago the city was going to knock down all those Section 8 apartments along the access road. Fast Forward to 2014 and I-240 still looks like it did 10years ago. The story remains the same, while the Memorial/Kilpatrick Turnpike stretch keeps getting nicer and nicer with higher end retail and restaurants, the South OKC area keeps falling further and further behind...............

A lot of the growth up north has been spurred on by parents jonesing for Deer Creek and Edmond schools is all. Not much us south siders can do to counteract that.

I was going to start a similar thread, and there is no doubt that the South OKC gets overlooked by everything. Last week I heard Top Golf and Costco were looking at building up on Memorial. What happened to the so called South Side Renaissance. They still cant figure out what to do with Crossroads Mall 10 years later, The AMC movie theatre by Crossroads is all but dead, because everyone go's to the Warren. The I-240 corridor between May and Shields still looks like crap. I remember hearing 5 years ago the city was going to knock down all those Section 8 apartments along the access road. Fast Forward to 2014 and I-240 still looks like it did 10years ago. The story remains the same, while the Memorial/Kilpatrick Turnpike stretch keeps getting nicer and nicer with higher end retail and restaurants, the South OKC area keeps falling further and further behind...............

The 240 project was going to cost too much, so they have turned to i44 instead.

The 240 project was going to cost too much, so they have turned to i44 instead.

Shame they couldn't take a lesson from the DTowner's and just do one side, making it the 120 project while keeping the 240 moniker

Shame they couldn't take a lesson from the DTowner's and just do one side, making it the 120 project while keeping the 240 moniker
Even at one side it would a major undertaking, but could be fabulous

I get the school district argument to some degree, but I'd argue the southwest side of OKC has the better schools and more choices, Mustang, Yukon, Moore, Norman. These districts attract tons of people, but instead of capitalizing OKC lets the tax dollars flow to Yukon, Moore and Norman. As a long time resident of Mustang/SW OKC I remember driving to the 240 area or even Rockwell/Reno/MacArthur area while growing up. At that time that's all that was available. But as suburbia grew, people started to take notice and move businesses and restaurants towards the people, while OKC settle idling by. I really think they should have continued to push on these projects, because honestly we were already used to driving, so I don't know that it would have ever made a difference if we would have had to continue to drive.

Keep in mind the development on the east side of the airport. They are hoping to attract some serious retail and restaurants along the new Portland Ave alignment. Whether they are successful or not remains to be seen.

Keep in mind the development on the east side of the airport. They are hoping to attract some serious retail and restaurants along the new Portland Ave alignment. Whether they are successful or not remains to be seen.

I'm optimistic.

Keep in mind the development on the east side of the airport. They are hoping to attract some serious retail and restaurants along the new Portland Ave alignment. Whether they are successful or not remains to be seen.

I just feel like this project is so slow. They are quick to tear stuff up over this way, but it just stalls out it seems.

It's being managed by the airport staff. So I neither have high optimism nor faith it will be done right.

Well hopefully they at least hurry up and finish the intersection at I44/Portland and 104th so it isn't such a mess.

Well hopefully they at least hurry up and finish the intersection at I44/Portland and 104th so it isn't such a mess.
Na they will wait to see if it's a problem first before addressing it....lol

I wonder if the south side should only allow south siders to use Will
Rogers? The north can use Sundown and Wiley Post.

What most of the members of this thread don't understand is that the
north side isn't superior to the south side. That's just wrong headed
thinking. The logistics simply favored the north side because of
convenience.

I'm not certain of this but I believe that since OKC was built north of the
river that most people stayed on that side. Crossing a river wasn't as
easy as it is today. Does anyone know when the first bridge across the
river was built? I'm going to speculate around 1920, some 30 years after
the city was founded. It's only an observation.

I'm not certain of this but I believe that since OKC was built north of the
river that most people stayed on that side. Crossing a river wasn't as
easy as it is today. Does anyone know when the first bridge across the
river was built? I'm going to speculate around 1920, some 30 years after
the city was founded. It's only an observation.

Remember though the natural river was much narrower and shallower than the channel dug by the Army corps and other than the trains the methods of transport were much lighter. Unmodified sections of the river today are as narrow as twenty feet wide in places and less than ten feet deep (before any dams were in place it was probably even easier to cross by the end of summer). OKC and South OKC split by the river was originally two separate cities, but quickly merged, so there would have had to been relatively easy transport between, though for daily items there was probably not much reason to. It seems hard to believe there would not something relatively soon after the land run, you could probably make a basic foot bridge in a couple weeks at that time and something at least temporary in a year or two for horses and wagons. There are paintings of people paddling boats near downtown many years ago, not sure if it was just done for leisure but if there was not a bridge in town then there might have been water taxis downtown much earlier than when we put in the canal.

Remember though the natural river was much narrower and shallower...
I totally agree. Until the canal in Bricktown a person could easily walk across
the river almost anytime of the year.

I still believe, since it was a river of sorts, that most decided to locate
on the north side of it.

I wonder if the south side should only allow south siders to use Will
Rogers? The north can use Sundown and Wiley Post.

What most of the members of this thread don't understand is that the
north side isn't superior to the south side. That's just wrong headed
thinking. The logistics simply favored the north side because of
convenience.

I'm not certain of this but I believe that since OKC was built north of the
river that most people stayed on that side. Crossing a river wasn't as
easy as it is today. Does anyone know when the first bridge across the
river was built? I'm going to speculate around 1920, some 30 years after
the city was founded. It's only an observation.

Speaking as a southsider my entire life, the north side is superior to the south side in just about every category. Entertainment, dining, cultural attractions, recreation, beauty, etc.

And that's okay. That doesn't bother me. The south side just developed differently. Besides Capitol Hill and Stockyard City, there was no early focal point for development to centralize itself on. Those two districts are small urban main street style developments. They were the center of their respective neighborhoods. Outside of that, on the southside housing and retail never had a focal point. The development just spread out in a wandering manner. And it still does today.

The northside has tons of focal points, that have been around since the beginning of the city. Just plain and simple, the north side always had the demographic appeal to be the place to do business. Without an anchor point on the neighborhood level and proper planning to develop a critical mass, there won't be the right numbers to attract the nicer restaurants and retail establishments.

I was a south sider from the late 50's until the very early 70's. I never
thought of the south side as being inferior to the north side.

Odd, though, a friend and I would cruise the north side, i.e. Holly's to
Quick's to Holly's several times a week. Then we'd cruise 39th
Expressway. There was no rhyme nor reason for this, unless you
count getting people to race on the south side was a reason...

I must say, if you wanted to race you had to come to the south side.
There were several venues and many times there were more north
siders than south siders. SW 89th, between S May and S Portland was
one of the most active venues.

Once we learned that accidents weren't reported unless the victim
agreed to post charges we could fake accidents and warn the racers.

It was amazing how many 5 or 6 car collisions would go unreported.

Southside will always have a special place in my heart for two reasons.

1. I grew up there.
2. It is a working class community. Has been always will be.

American society has grown to loathe the working class in this country. These days there is not really a need for the working class for many people thanks to the disposable society we have become. There is not that much of need for people who are willing to get there hands dirty to fix things thanks to credit cards that allow high debt loads and car dealerships who will allow you to trade a car upside down.

Southside will always have a special place in my heart for two reasons.

1. I grew up there.
2. It is a working class community. Has been always will be.

American society has grown to loathe the working class in this country. These days there is not really a need for the working class for many people thanks to the disposable society we have become. There is not that much of need for people who are willing to get there hands dirty to fix things thanks to credit cards that allow high debt loads and car dealerships who will allow you to trade a car upside down.
My kids' dad is blue collar and I went the white collar route. Three lawyer kids with executive and working artist spouses. Being good parents, they are already saving to send my grand babies to college and I wonder if they think I'm kidding when I suggest having a skilled worker or tradesman in the family would be a good thing. Nothing to do with intellect and never has (my grandkids are brilliant) but every generation tends to assume what worked to get ahead in their day will work for their kids. I see trades and skilled labor being a strong route to the middle class in future years.

My kids' dad is blue collar and I went the white collar route. Three lawyer kids with executive and working artist spouses. Being good parents, they are already saving to send my grand babies to college and I wonder if they think I'm kidding when I suggest having a skilled worker or tradesman in the family would be a good thing. Nothing to do with intellect and never has (my grandkids are brilliant) but every generation tends to assume what worked to get ahead in their day will work for their kids. I see trades and skilled labor being a strong route to the middle class in future years.

Without skilled tradesmen, our future in this country will grow very dark.

There are several blue collar jobs out there that can make quite a bit more money than white collar jobs. I think people are starting to notice this and there are always going to be people that college just isn't for, and will go into these types of jobs. I think the biggest problem is schools put so much pressure on going to college when IMO they should focus on getting kids into a career path that they are going to enjoy and make money.

There are several blue collar jobs out there that can make quite a bit more
money than white collar jobs. I think people are starting to notice this and
there are always going to be people that college just isn't for, and will go
into these types of jobs. I think the biggest problem is schools put so much
pressure on going to college when IMO they should focus on getting kids
into a career path that they are going to enjoy and make money.
A superb and excellent post. Kudos!

https://www.uber.com/100/images/maps/184.png

There are several blue collar jobs out there that can make quite a bit more money than white collar jobs. I think people are starting to notice this and there are always going to be people that college just isn't for, and will go into these types of jobs. I think the biggest problem is schools put so much pressure on going to college when IMO they should focus on getting kids into a career path that they are going to enjoy and make money.


Without skilled tradesmen, our future in this country will grow very dark.

Agree with these points. Not to get too political, but the idea that everyone needs to go to college whether they are college material or not is destroying our economy. There is still a place for trades and many times today those people have far more job security than white collar people. Less college graduates means those who do get their degree will have higher odds of a meaningful career. I know many college graduates today who are not using their degree and are continuing in their retail jobs they worked at during college. It's sad.

https://www.uber.com/100/images/maps/184.png

Glad you posted this here. I was thinking of doing this myself but wasn't sure.

Since we can infer that uber is a service that caters to the young and/or affluent, it would't be a stretch to assume that this map essentially "track" where said people live and play.

Consumer behavior matters just as much if not more that total incomes. And while yes, the 73130 is one of the most affluent areas in the state, I would look at this map and not know that. Why? Could be a number of reasons. Maybe the southside is more family oriented so less $ to spend on fluff like expensive rides home. Maybe just a more fiscally conservative mindset in the area.

Nothing wrong with these things, and this map is just one nugget of info. But it does explain what I have said, and probably in a much clearer way. If I am opening up some fru-fru restartaunt or shop that caters to people with disposable income, the type of people btw who would use uber, what in this map would convince me to open up in Moore or 240 compared to Classen Curve or Penn Square?

All the map tells me is people in the suburbs don't use Uber as much, probably because they depend more on a car and have one, so less likely to need a ride.

All the map tells me is people in the suburbs don't use Uber as much, probably because they depend more on a car and have one, so less likely to need a ride.

Everyone I know that lives downtown has a car as well. They all use Uber pretty frequently though. I don't think owning a car has much to do with your likelihood of using Uber. At least in OKC.

I have a car, a motorcycle and a scooter, and I use the crap out of Uber. At least a couple of times a week (mostly Thunder games and going out).

I would use Uber more but the length of time it takes to get a car out to my house SW generally distracts me from it. Also, roundtrip...it is $80-$100. I think most people living in these areas have already figured out a designated driver routine. (in my case...wife isn't big drinker) When I travel though, I use Uber quite a bit though. Just no reason to use at home.

The other consideration is most people in these higher income zip codes are generally more mature age wise, married and have kids so the going out and drinking thing isn't as common. We still go to dinner but we aren't getting liquored up in front of the kids where we can't drive or going home and being three sheets in front of the kids.

Haha I'm 46, but never claimed to be mature. Not having kids helps. I AM mature enough not to want to drink and drive though.

Haha I'm 46, but never claimed to be mature. Not having kids helps. I AM mature enough not to want to drink and drive though.

That's good. DUI attys are expensive :) I used to go out 2-3 times a week after work for drinks before I had kids. Now, I may have a drink in the evening but very rare to go out for just drinks. Also, it was much easier when I was two blocks from Blue Note and could crawl home versus being 3-5 miles from nearest bar now. Not sure Uber would come out to Halftime in Wheatland to take me to 104th and MacArthur...or at least the driver wouldn't be happy about it

Sounds like maybe we just need more neighborhood bars within walking distance......

That's good. DUI attys are expensive :) I used to go out 2-3 times a week after work for drinks before I had kids. Now, I may have a drink in the evening but very rare to go out for just drinks. Also, it was much easier when I was two blocks from Blue Note and could crawl home versus being 3-5 miles from nearest bar now. Not sure Uber would come out to Halftime in Wheatland to take me to 104th and MacArthur...or at least the driver wouldn't be happy about it

Oh, he'd be happy about it alright...if you paid for the trip out there...

^ no we need more people wanting to go to neighborhood bars. Businesses follow their demographic.

The other consideration is most people in these higher income zip codes are generally more mature age wise, married and have kids so the going out and drinking thing isn't as common. We still go to dinner but we aren't getting liquored up in front of the kids where we can't drive or going home and being three sheets in front of the kids.

My point exactly. Kids and age=more money buying braces and saving in a 401K and less money blowing it on expensive platters at Ludivine. In all likelihood your neighbors have the same life situation. With regards to the original OP it doesn't matter that one area has a lot of money if the dominant deomographic in that area has their cash tied up somewhere else.

I woud almost counter this by saying it looks like Uber gets a lot of use in Heritage Hills/Mesta Park and, to a lesser extent Nichols Hills. But those areas do have a good mix of DINK type households, at least compared to more suburban locales.

My point exactly. Kids and age=more money buying braces and saving in a 401K and less money blowing it on expensive platters at Ludivine. With regards to the original OP it doesn't matter that one area has a lot of money if the dominant deomographic in that area has their cash tied up somewhere else.

I woud almost counter this by saying it looks like Uber gets a lot of use in Heritage Hills/Mesta Park and, to a lesser extent Nichols Hills. But those areas do have a good mix of DINK type households, at least compared to more suburban locales.

Holy shiz what the hell are you talking about, we all freaking drive to Norman or North-side to eat at all the same places you're eating at Andy. And guess what I drag my three kids along with me. Your assuming way to much about south siders.

Holy shiz what the hell are you talking about, we all freaking drive to Norman or North-side to eat at all the same places you're eating at Andy. And guess what I drag my three kids along with me. Your assuming way to much about south siders.

Am I? No need to get offended. Someone asked why the SW side doesn't get nicer restaraunts and stores to the same level that other parts of town do. And I am just showing that sometimes people have different spending priorities, nothing more. Retailers and businesses do take note of these things though. In that business, correlation does equal causation, whether one thinks that smart or not is certainly entitled to their opinion.

My point exactly. Kids and age=more money buying braces and saving in a 401K and less money blowing it on expensive platters at Ludivine. In all likelihood your neighbors have the same life situation. With regards to the original OP it doesn't matter that one area has a lot of money if the dominant deomographic in that area has their cash tied up somewhere else.

I woud almost counter this by saying it looks like Uber gets a lot of use in Heritage Hills/Mesta Park and, to a lesser extent Nichols Hills. But those areas do have a good mix of DINK type households, at least compared to more suburban locales.

My kids have braces and I had no problem dropping $135/plate for the steak tasting at the "Cut" steakhouse at the Palazzo in Vegas this last weekend. When there are options, we don't mind spending money. Btw...the real Japanese kobe wasn't as good as the corn fed Nebraska steak. The American Wagyu was decent. The money is there....just not the places to spend it so we stay home and cook steaks on our own grills.

Am I? No need to get offended. Someone asked why the SW side doesn't get nicer restaraunts and stores to the same level that other parts of town do. And I am just showing that sometimes people have different spending priorities, nothing more. Retailers and businesses do take note of these things though. In that business, correlation does equal causation, whether one thinks that smart or not is certainly entitled to their opinion.


Well then Tulsa must be far superior to OKC then, with your way of thinking.

Well then Tulsa must be far superior to OKC then, with your way of thinking.

LOL not in the slightest. I rep the 405 all day.

At the risk of being a bchris02 apologist, its been a well known fact that it is far easier to measure and parse out incomes and demographics in Tulsa than OKC, which has led retailers to expand in Tulsa with much more confidence. OKC has pulled even but its largely been because of improving economic conditions here and some greasing of the wheel (read:incentives). Its just the way that business works.