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jedicurt
02-19-2024, 09:12 AM
Equity Brewing in Norman announced they will be closing down when their lease is up at the end of July. I know many on here will say this is another bit of proof that the Craft beer scene is dead in OKC. But this is once again another situation where management showed that they couldn't overcome their own deficiencies. You can't do some questionable business practices that causes an almost complete turnover in your staff; the brewery you were helping get off the ground decide it was better to just not make any beer or money until their own brewery space was finished rather than continue brewing and selling with you; and most of your regulars at the time to leave you and never come back, and expect to survive long term.

dankrutka
02-19-2024, 11:03 AM
That's unfortunate. Equity had a really unique, intimate space—somewhere between brewery, coffee shop, and book store. I enjoyed it the few times I visited.

okcrun
02-21-2024, 05:11 PM
Equity Brewing in Norman announced they will be closing down when their lease is up at the end of July. I know many on here will say this is another bit of proof that the Craft beer scene is dead in OKC. But this is once again another situation where management showed that they couldn't overcome their own deficiencies. You can't do some questionable business practices that causes an almost complete turnover in your staff; the brewery you were helping get off the ground decide it was better to just not make any beer or money until their own brewery space was finished rather than continue brewing and selling with you; and most of your regulars at the time to leave you and never come back, and expect to survive long term.

Not sure why you would expect anyone to know what you are talking about

jedicurt
02-22-2024, 09:26 AM
Not sure why you would expect anyone to know what you are talking about

literally just pointing out that the writing for this had been on the wall. and that this isn't the "craft beer industry is dying" like others keep saying. all of the recent brewery closings have been not surprising to those who actually follow and know these breweries.

Twisted Spike always had a terrible location, Cross Timbers had some ownership issues, Black Mesa couldn't pay their taxes, and Equity made some bad ownership decisions that cost them their best staff and a large group of loyal customers.

i just get tired every time one of these has closed, so many people on here who don't frequent these places or know the people involved just throw out "Craft Beer Is Dying", or whatever other nonsense they constantly say when they don't actually know what is going on.

Pete
02-22-2024, 09:38 AM
Any insight as to why Elk Valley didn't make it?

jedicurt
02-22-2024, 09:54 AM
Any insight as to why Elk Valley didn't make it?

only thing i ever heard on them was their rent was ridiculously high for that location. I don't know what the rent amount was, nor if that truly was the issue. I do know that they always had a hard time getting people to the tap room and that a large majority of their profits came from distribution. Which i always found the lack of people there surprising, because it was a beautiful patio area, and nice tap room. but there was hardly ever anyone there. Don't know if they just didn't advertise it correctly, or what. but that always seemed to be a struggle for them even well before the Pandemic.

jn1780
02-22-2024, 09:59 AM
literally just pointing out that the writing for this had been on the wall. and that this isn't the "craft beer industry is dying" like others keep saying. all of the recent brewery closings have been not surprising to those who actually follow and know these breweries.

Twisted Spike always had a terrible location, Cross Timbers had some ownership issues, Black Mesa couldn't pay their taxes, and Equity made some bad ownership decisions that cost them their best staff and a large group of loyal customers.

i just get tired every time one of these has closed, so many people on here who don't frequent these places or know the people involved just throw out "Craft Beer Is Dying", or whatever other nonsense they constantly say when they don't actually know what is going on.

"Craft beer is dying" is an extreme overreaction, but sales are down from the surge of sales in years prior. Its typical to see the weaker run places go under when the market share gets smaller. Interests and tastes change throughout the years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikofgang/2023/10/11/people-are-drinking-less-craft-beer-heres-why-says-brewers-association/?sh=70272a001121

jedicurt
02-22-2024, 10:01 AM
I still have 3 more on my concerned list in the OKC Metro area. with one just never really doing great to start with, but most probably haven't even heard of them which is part of the problem. and two others that i think waited way too long to pivot during the pandemic when they used to make a killing on tap room, went a long period there where i think they just hoped it would come back once things opened up, and then saw that it was a much slower comeback than predicted and didn't adjust their distribution model to cover for that loss of revenue quickly enough. and then with one of them, the quick adjustment also caused some other issues such as consistency, etc which caused some people to shy away from them even after.

i really hope i'm wrong, and all three are able to pull it together and make it work. but i'm not very optimistic.

jedicurt
02-22-2024, 10:10 AM
"Craft beer is dying" is an extreme overreaction, but sales are down from the surge of sales in years prior. Its typical to see the weaker run places go under when the market share gets smaller. Interests and tastes change throughout the years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikofgang/2023/10/11/people-are-drinking-less-craft-beer-heres-why-says-brewers-association/?sh=70272a001121

in other markets i do think yes people have shifted back to other options, seltzers are very popular right now (some breweries offer those now) and whiskey and mezcal are having huge popularity gains right now. but markets change all the time, there is no saying that craft beer won't be back. remember that there are many styles of beer, and even those habits have changed. during the past 15 years, you could just make IPA's and everyone would flock to you, the late 90's was strong ales and stouts. what most around here are seeing is the move to seltzers (so many are making them) and light lagers and pilsners are making a huge comeback. So those breweries that are pivoting to making styles the market is trending towards seem to be doing well.

i just don't even think in the OKC area it's as much as the market is getting smaller... those that made quick pivots to changing trends both in the midst of the pandemic and now post pandemic, are seeing increases in revenue. i know several that 2023 is going to go down as their best year on books. I just legit think that there are options now, and just having a brewery doesn't automatically now mean that people are going to flock to it. Yes the market has changed, but that has happened for every market of the past 4 years. those that pivoted to the changing trends are doing great. Those that refused to change are suffering. It's no different than any other industry.

BoulderSooner
02-22-2024, 10:12 AM
Any insight as to why Elk Valley didn't make it?


only thing i ever heard on them was their rent was ridiculously high for that location. I don't know what the rent amount was, nor if that truly was the issue. I do know that they always had a hard time getting people to the tap room and that a large majority of their profits came from distribution. Which i always found the lack of people there surprising, because it was a beautiful patio area, and nice tap room. but there was hardly ever anyone there. Don't know if they just didn't advertise it correctly, or what. but that always seemed to be a struggle for them even well before the Pandemic.

as someone that wanted to love it and lived very near by ... i can say that their tap room customer service was TERRIBLE >.

not just on 1 visit but pretty much all of them over the course of months ..

jn1780
02-22-2024, 10:19 AM
i just don't even think in the OKC area it's as much as the market is getting smaller... those that made quick pivots to changing trends both in the midst of the pandemic and now post pandemic, are seeing increases in revenue. i know several that 2023 is going to go down as their best year on books. I just legit think that there are options now, and just having a brewery doesn't automatically now mean that people are going to flock to it. Yes the market has changed, but that has happened for every market of the past 4 years. those that pivoted to the changing trends are doing great. Those that refused to change are suffering. It's no different than any other industry.

I agree with this statement. Its just not the 'Gold Rush' days. Good businesses will take advantage of opportunities where they can.

Bullbear
02-22-2024, 10:28 AM
as someone that wanted to love it and lived very near by ... i can say that their tap room customer service was TERRIBLE >.

not just on 1 visit but pretty much all of them over the course of months ..

Exactly this! a group of us brewery hop if not every weekend at least every other. Elk Valley stopped being on our list due to terrible customer service.
We hit Prairie, SkyDance, FWF, Anthem, Stone Cloud, Lively and Big Friendly on the regular.

Bullbear
02-22-2024, 10:28 AM
as someone that wanted to love it and lived very near by ... i can say that their tap room customer service was TERRIBLE >.

not just on 1 visit but pretty much all of them over the course of months ..

Exactly this! a group of us brewery hop if not every weekend at least every other. Elk Valley stopped being on our list due to terrible customer service.
We hit Prairie, SkyDance, FWF, Anthem, Stone Cloud, Lively and Big Friendly on the regular.

jedicurt
02-22-2024, 10:30 AM
as someone that wanted to love it and lived very near by ... i can say that their tap room customer service was TERRIBLE >.

not just on 1 visit but pretty much all of them over the course of months ..

that's very sad to hear. i only ever went there twice, and yes the service wasn't good

Mballard85
02-22-2024, 10:57 AM
Any insight as to why Elk Valley didn't make it?

John started to get tired of the grind of it, when the lot to the south announced development that was a blow as that was the parking that people would use. I talked to a few people in the business and they all said that the lot going away was a big part him wanting to walk away.

He also was very back of the house and the people he let run the tap room did it a massive disservice. I think ultimately running a brewery was a little more than he wanted it to be. John is a brilliant brewer, but he never really treated the tap room as the life line it is to breweries. He often would give special beers to other establishments and not in the tap room because he didn't think about it.

Mballard85
02-22-2024, 11:01 AM
I still have 3 more on my concerned list in the OKC Metro area. with one just never really doing great to start with, but most probably haven't even heard of them which is part of the problem. and two others that i think waited way too long to pivot during the pandemic when they used to make a killing on tap room, went a long period there where i think they just hoped it would come back once things opened up, and then saw that it was a much slower comeback than predicted and didn't adjust their distribution model to cover for that loss of revenue quickly enough. and then with one of them, the quick adjustment also caused some other issues such as consistency, etc which caused some people to shy away from them even after.

i really hope i'm wrong, and all three are able to pull it together and make it work. but i'm not very optimistic.

I've got a few that I am concerned about as well, high rent areas or massive build outs that don't seem to be used as they should.

Pete
02-22-2024, 11:05 AM
I really loved the indoor/outdoor space at Crosstimbers.

I hope another brewer will setup there and make it work.

Bullbear
02-22-2024, 11:19 AM
Crosstimbers was a favorite of ours as well. great patio but also covered for overly sunny or rainy days.

jedicurt
02-22-2024, 12:27 PM
I really loved the indoor/outdoor space at Crosstimbers.

I hope another brewer will setup there and make it work.

i have reason to believe that is what the owner of the building wants as well. he just didn't want it to continue being Crosstimbers.

dankrutka
02-22-2024, 12:55 PM
John started to get tired of the grind of it, when the lot to the south announced development that was a blow as that was the parking that people would use. I talked to a few people in the business and they all said that the lot going away was a big part him wanting to walk away.

Blaming losing a parking lot seems like an excuse. That is not an overly busy area and they had a small brewery. Customers should have been able to park within a block on the street. Moreover, they're right on the streetcar line. I suspect it's issues like customer service or poor advertising or just poor visibility that were far more likely causes of them struggling.

Pete
02-22-2024, 01:07 PM
I don't have insider knowledge of any of these breweries, but never was the bar or restaurant that closed and said, "We weren't good operators, there wasn't enough demand for what we were serving, and we had no interest in trying to market ourselves."

It's always construction, the landlord, or some other reason.

At the same time, nobody seems to be very surprised by the closing which tells the real story.

CaptDave
02-22-2024, 01:36 PM
If you haven't tried it yet, Core4 is my favorite local brewery. They had the best Marzen I have ever tried for Octoberfest. The owners and staff are fun to spend time with in the taproom.

Jersey Boss
02-26-2024, 06:51 PM
Anybody know of any establishments that sell Mead?

Jeepnokc
02-26-2024, 07:09 PM
Anybody know of any establishments that sell Mead?

OK Cider Co has two meads on tap right now

borchard
02-27-2024, 12:43 PM
The ones my wife and I really enjoy are:
ON THE ROTATION

Angry Scotsman - Great beer. Great patio. Great staff
Roughtail - Great beer. Great building
American Solera - Great beer. Great location (for us). Good staff
Frenzy - Good beer. Great taproom. Great location (for us)

STILL FREQUENT

Prairie Artisan - Great beer. Just keep forgetting about it.
Skydance - Really good beer. Great building. Good location.
Lively - Good beer.
Stonecloud - Good beer. Cool building. Just don't go as often as we used to.
FWF - Good beer. Good building. Keep forgetting about.

bille
03-01-2024, 09:36 AM
Having close insight to the local OK craft scene for many years now to include being involved with grassroots efforts to bring alcohol moderations (legalizing taprooms for one) and being in homebrew clubs with the majority of the brewery proprietors I can type thousands of words on the history and my opinion of the state of OK craft beer, despite not being as closely involved with it as I was five or ten years ago, but I don't want to bore you all with that nonsense. ;)

The easiest way to explain why our breweries are "failing" is as bad as it sounds to admit it, we just don't have the numbers of fans to support all of them. Another thing that many aren't aware of is that a lot of these breweries got off the ground prior to taprooms being legalized and in many cases were not even on their radars so in order to be profitable you had to be financed into a brew system large enough to provide as much product as you could afford to produce. This pushed many to a fine line of coming up with a portfolio they appeased the masses while also having something relatively exciting and "new" to keep customers returning. As you know we tend to have short attention spans.

Something that hinders many breweries is being placed in an area that doesn't have convenient food sources, whether that's a place or two next door or easy delivery. Ultimately being placed where they were (Elk Valley) John was heavily relying on the nextdoor development, an ajoining establishment that was to have at least a food option and other traffic draws, something akin to the 8th street market (where Prairie is), at least that was my understanding. Now I haven't straight up asked John why or what he thinks was the ultimate reason but many times I talked to him about the state of the brewery he mentioned that development and how he hoped something would come through. As others have mentioned, every single time I was there it was not busy. Marketing and a good taproom vibe (which certainly took a dive when Chelsea left) would have helped but who knows if he could have saved the taproom or just extended its time.

IMO the strongest taprooms that will be able to weather the current conditions are the low overhead brewpub spaces that sell the majority (or all) of their beer across the bar as that allows for a 90ish percent profit margin versus a 35ish one sending products through the distribution chain.

In short, OK breweries got a late start and late law changes put us in an interesting predicament as national breweries were also expanding their distribution. If you have paid attention to those popular breweries they have faced many challenges as well. A lot of closings, a lot of scaling back distribution, many takeovers and mergers as well. Honestly none of the local brewery closures thus far have surprised me. Many of us saw it coming and yes, there will be more unfortunately. I can speculate on a couple, but I'd rather not send that negativity out there into the ether as again, I'm friends with most of the owners and brewers and ultimately, I do wish for them to have some success and survive.

Pete
03-01-2024, 09:52 AM
^

Thank you for all that insight.

I will say that relative newcomer Fair Weather Friend seems to have found their audience. But they do a great job of serving food and marketing themselves and the various events they hold, such as trivia.

Also, Frenzy Brewing in Downtown Edmond seems to do well and of course there are now tons of food places all around them. Sundance is another that does a good job of marketing themselves and seems to stay pretty busy. Stonecloud was one of the first and they also seem to have found their audience, same with OG Anthem.


It seems the lesson is you'd better offer something unique and actively work on continuous promotion and events. OKC is too competitive to just open your doors and hope people show up and keep thinking of you amid the hundreds of competing choices.

TheTravellers
03-01-2024, 10:13 AM
^

Thank you for all that insight.

I will say that relative newcomer Fair Weather Friend seems to have found their audience. But they do a great job of serving food and marketing themselves and the various events they hold, such as trivia.
...

And they have a built-in customer base with Beer City Music Hall right next door, so lots of foot traffic that some taprooms just don't get.

Mballard85
03-01-2024, 10:54 AM
I'll say this, if you are not frequenting the Big Friendly, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.

jedicurt
03-01-2024, 11:34 AM
I'll say this, if you are not frequenting the Big Friendly, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.

yes. they are the only brewery in Oklahoma right now winning national awards. and the product speaks for itself

bille
03-01-2024, 12:10 PM
I'll say this, if you are not frequenting the Big Friendly, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.

Indeed! Easily one of my top five OKC breweries. More times than not if I only have time to visit one brewery that is where I go.

bille
03-01-2024, 12:26 PM
^

Thank you for all that insight.

I will say that relative newcomer Fair Weather Friend seems to have found their audience. But they do a great job of serving food and marketing themselves and the various events they hold, such as trivia.

Also, Frenzy Brewing in Downtown Edmond seems to do well and of course there are now tons of food places all around them. Sundance is another that does a good job of marketing themselves and seems to stay pretty busy. Stonecloud was one of the first and they also seem to have found their audience, same with OG Anthem.


It seems the lesson is you'd better offer something unique and actively work on continuous promotion and events. OKC is too competitive to just open your doors and hope people show up and keep thinking of you amid the hundreds of competing choices.

Reed and Adrienne both have far-reaching backgrounds in the business, working at PAA and Stonecloud to name a couple. They've seen what works and hopefully understand what doesn't. In addition to making good beer I have to credit them with coming out of the gate with on-site pies (that are yummy) so there's no rush to leave to find food elsewhere. I'm afraid too many breweries discounted food options or once realized their importance have failed to move forward trying to find food options of some kind. If you don't have a convenient location, decent walkability and/or foot traffic you certainly need to find a niche or something that sets you apart. Indeed you cannot just put out a basic portfolio of beers, regardless if they are brewed perfectly, set back and expect the customers to come to you on a consistent basis.

The breweries that seem to have their fingers on the pulse imo are The Big Friendly, Roughtail, Stonecloud and Skydance. Understand what the crowd wants, have a least a couple of options for everybody, including the non-craft fans, and not staying stagnant pushing new/fresh beers or variants of old favorites. That helps bring in new faces as well as the loyal customers.

bille
03-01-2024, 12:30 PM
yes. they are the only brewery in Oklahoma right now winning national awards. and the product speaks for itself

They make great beers but equallly important is seeing value in entering these contests so that when you do get recognized you can parlay those accolades into a marketing campaign, follow up beer releases, etc. It's a very smart move! :)

borchard
03-02-2024, 07:04 AM
Someone earlier in this string mentioned a brewer that was GREAT at brewing beer, but really didn't want to, or even know how to, run a taproom. They just wanted to brew beer. The ones that are still shining, and hopefully will continue to shine, are the ones who seem to know how to do both? What I hope is that the failure of some of these leads to lessons learned by up-and-coming brewers, so that history doesn't keep repeating itself. I have ZERO personal inside knowledge of the brewing industry in Oklahoma. I just know what I like, and what I hear from people who report to "know". From that, and what I've read here, there can be many reasons why these breweries are failing:

- Didn't pay their taxes
- Not in a good location.
- Good at brewing, but bad at business-running
- Hired the wrong people
- Expected development around them to augment them
- Grew too fast
- Just didn't make good beer

I still believe that making an EXCEPTIONAL beer can cover a multitude of other issues. IMHO, Coop does not have a good location for a taproom, but they caught lightning in a bottle with some of their beers, especially F5. It can be found at almost EVERY place in Oklahoma that has beer taps. A friend of mine in New Mexico even heard about it and had me to get him some.
Roughtail made ERWO. Its also in a ton of places around the state.
PAA created Prairie Bomb years ago. That beer has traveled all around the country. I recently saw a PAA beer in a pub in North Georgia.

Other local breweries have some good beers, but if they can create THAT beer it goes a long way to making them a success.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Doesn't mean it's right.

TBD
03-02-2024, 10:22 AM
The Big Friendly is great and their taproom is amazing. Love grabbing a beer and a taco at Taco Nation across the street. Was there last night and noticed they're starting a membership club. Seems mostly targeted at neighbors, but looks like a good deal for anyone there on a regular basis.

corwin1968
03-02-2024, 06:08 PM
I wasn't a beer drinker until the mid-90's, when Samuel Adams started putting out different styles of beers and still wasn't much of a drinker until recently, when I discovered the HUGE variety of beer that is now available.

I'm a BA stout guy and try pretty much every one I can get my hands one. I feel very fortunate that we have some excellent breweries/brew houses in OKC. I'm a frequent visitor to PAA, who puts out an outrageous number of stouts, and although I've never drank at the OKC taproom, I've bought beer at Stonecloud and drank at the Stillwater taproom. Today, we went to Frenzy for the first time (their canned Midnight Sentinel started me on my stout journey) and I was very impressed. We then stopped by American Solera, where we had been before, and I had three more stouts, one of which was among the best I've ever had (Solchata, if you like BA stouts, you have to try this one. On tap, only).

Overall, I would rate Stonecloud over PAA, as far as high quality BA stouts, but PAA wins for sheer variety and frequency of new releases.

Anthem has a line-up of three BA stouts, Hunting for the Sun (good), Eclipse My Mind (AMAZING) and a third that is yet to be released. I haven't been to their taproom and haven't seen "In your Eyes", but I would really like to try it.

The quality of beer coming out of OK breweries is amazing to me.

Bunty
03-02-2024, 07:33 PM
An interesting thing about Stonecloud Brewery that may not be well known is that its owner Joel Irby grew up in Stillwater while his dad was having success building up Stillwater Designs, famous for its Kicker brand of car speakers, subs and amps.

To put up his new Stonecloud in Stillwater, Joel got with Cory Williams, who after leaving politics got more involved in redeveloping old residential and commercial properties in Stillwater. A downtown Stillwater building abandoned for decades was remodeled into Stonecloud. Today with its great patio, it is a big hit and gives other downtown bars, including Iron Monk Brewery, plenty of competition. Pictured below. Part of an old white building is on the right. It is currently being remodeled into a new restaurant.

http://okie.world/photos/stonecloud.jpg

OkieBerto
03-03-2024, 08:34 AM
"Good at brewing, but bad at business-running"

From my conversations over the years with one of my close friends who is a local Brewer, this is the main reason for the struggles he has had at the two local breweries he has worked at over the last decade. At his last brewery, the company couldn't keep the original brewer or formula guy happy so they split. It was up to the junior brewers to keep that place afloat. It survived, but it was clear management messed it up. The same thing happened to his current location last year. The Main Brewer wasn't happy with the way things were managed and he split. He is now brewing for a bigger national chain. My friend is now the head brewery and loves his work, but it ain't easy being a brewer.

Urbanized
03-03-2024, 10:11 AM
The actual operation of a business - especially one with an intensive public-facing customer component - is far more complex than can be imaged by someone who’s never done it themselves. Just because someone is skilled in an art, be it via education or self-actuation - business needs such as legalities, leases, finance, taxes, building and equipment maintenance, insurance, hiring, training, supervision, scheduling, HR, payroll, marketing and other comms, and customer service ALL require a deft touch to ensure simple longevity, much less success.

Anyone who gets into a business endeavor based solely on a passion for the product MUST assess and recognize their own shortcomings or at the very least their own lack of expertise. Sometimes you can become a self-taught expert on a needed task on your own, of course. But the tradeoff in doing so can impact the time you can spend on the part you love, which will often rob you of your original passion.

Usually a better strategy is to identify and lean on experts in any aspects of your business for which you lack experience or passion. To quote Solomon, pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.

jedicurt
03-04-2024, 08:02 AM
I wasn't a beer drinker until the mid-90's, when Samuel Adams started putting out different styles of beers and still wasn't much of a drinker until recently, when I discovered the HUGE variety of beer that is now available.

I'm a BA stout guy and try pretty much every one I can get my hands one. I feel very fortunate that we have some excellent breweries/brew houses in OKC. I'm a frequent visitor to PAA, who puts out an outrageous number of stouts, and although I've never drank at the OKC taproom, I've bought beer at Stonecloud and drank at the Stillwater taproom. Today, we went to Frenzy for the first time (their canned Midnight Sentinel started me on my stout journey) and I was very impressed. We then stopped by American Solera, where we had been before, and I had three more stouts, one of which was among the best I've ever had (Solchata, if you like BA stouts, you have to try this one. On tap, only).

Overall, I would rate Stonecloud over PAA, as far as high quality BA stouts, but PAA wins for sheer variety and frequency of new releases.

Anthem has a line-up of three BA stouts, Hunting for the Sun (good), Eclipse My Mind (AMAZING) and a third that is yet to be released. I haven't been to their taproom and haven't seen "In your Eyes", but I would really like to try it.

The quality of beer coming out of OK breweries is amazing to me.

if BA stouts are your thing and you are down in the norman area, Beer Is Good Brewery has some pretty great stouts as well.

corwin1968
03-04-2024, 12:23 PM
if BA stouts are your thing and you are down in the norman area, Beer Is Good Brewery has some pretty great stouts as well.

Thanks for the recommendation! I will check that out.

emounger
03-04-2024, 02:01 PM
I would just like to add that Angry Scotsman seems to be another one that is doing well. They have a wide selection of great beers and a great patio. We go there for trivia every Wednesday night and it's always packed; same with bingo on Sundays. They also do a good job of marketing themselves and the events they host.

bille
03-04-2024, 02:21 PM
Someone earlier in this string mentioned a brewer that was GREAT at brewing beer, but really didn't want to, or even know how to, run a taproom. They just wanted to brew beer. The ones that are still shining, and hopefully will continue to shine, are the ones who seem to know how to do both? What I hope is that the failure of some of these leads to lessons learned by up-and-coming brewers, so that history doesn't keep repeating itself. I have ZERO personal inside knowledge of the brewing industry in Oklahoma. I just know what I like, and what I hear from people who report to "know". From that, and what I've read here, there can be many reasons why these breweries are failing:

- Didn't pay their taxes
- Not in a good location.
- Good at brewing, but bad at business-running
- Hired the wrong people
- Expected development around them to augment them
- Grew too fast
- Just didn't make good beer

I still believe that making an EXCEPTIONAL beer can cover a multitude of other issues. IMHO, Coop does not have a good location for a taproom, but they caught lightning in a bottle with some of their beers, especially F5. It can be found at almost EVERY place in Oklahoma that has beer taps. A friend of mine in New Mexico even heard about it and had me to get him some.
Roughtail made ERWO. Its also in a ton of places around the state.
PAA created Prairie Bomb years ago. That beer has traveled all around the country. I recently saw a PAA beer in a pub in North Georgia.

Other local breweries have some good beers, but if they can create THAT beer it goes a long way to making them a success.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Doesn't mean it's right.

F5 is the number one selling craft beer sku in OK, they sell A LOT of it. :)

Prairie’s early/instant success was no accident. Chase, who originally started at COOP, met the folks at Shelton Brothers distributing at a craft beer conference while he was still working for COOP and although his next brand (Red Bud) didn’t really have a chance to take off the contacts he made back then and the experience with the Brewer’s CO-OP (eventually Brewer’s Union – yes, he started that too) would lay the groundwork for understanding what made sense and what it took to be successful. Spend time working on a solid recipe, contract a brewery (Choc) to do all the hard work, packaging, etc. for you and then have your new friends at Shelton Brothers distribute it to the far reaches of the world. The venture paid off big time for him! ��

bille
03-04-2024, 02:27 PM
I wasn't a beer drinker until the mid-90's, when Samuel Adams started putting out different styles of beers and still wasn't much of a drinker until recently, when I discovered the HUGE variety of beer that is now available.

I'm a BA stout guy and try pretty much every one I can get my hands one. I feel very fortunate that we have some excellent breweries/brew houses in OKC. I'm a frequent visitor to PAA, who puts out an outrageous number of stouts, and although I've never drank at the OKC taproom, I've bought beer at Stonecloud and drank at the Stillwater taproom. Today, we went to Frenzy for the first time (their canned Midnight Sentinel started me on my stout journey) and I was very impressed. We then stopped by American Solera, where we had been before, and I had three more stouts, one of which was among the best I've ever had (Solchata, if you like BA stouts, you have to try this one. On tap, only).

Overall, I would rate Stonecloud over PAA, as far as high quality BA stouts, but PAA wins for sheer variety and frequency of new releases.

Anthem has a line-up of three BA stouts, Hunting for the Sun (good), Eclipse My Mind (AMAZING) and a third that is yet to be released. I haven't been to their taproom and haven't seen "In your Eyes", but I would really like to try it.

The quality of beer coming out of OK breweries is amazing to me.

Chase (proprietor of American Solera) is famous for starting Prairie Artisan Ales and being the created of Prairie Bomb. Bomb was modeled after Cigar City Hunahpu and other popular stouts that were sweeping the nation at the time. I distinctly remember those first releases of Bomb and Pirate Bomb here in OK, it was total chaos trying to locate bottles and many were trading for insane values on the secondary market!

bille
03-04-2024, 02:31 PM
An interesting thing about Stonecloud Brewery that may not be well known is that its owner Joel Irby grew up in Stillwater while his dad was having success building up Stillwater Designs, famous for its Kicker brand of car speakers, subs and amps.

To put up his new Stonecloud in Stillwater, Joel got with Cory Williams, who after leaving politics got more involved in redeveloping old residential and commercial properties in Stillwater. A downtown Stillwater building abandoned for decades was remodeled into Stonecloud. Today with its great patio, it is a big hit and gives other downtown bars, including Iron Monk Brewery, plenty of competition. Pictured below. Part of an old white building is on the right. It is currently being remodeled into a new restaurant.

http://okie.world/photos/stonecloud.jpg

I met Steve many years ago, such a nice guy and thankfully my buddy who introduced us, didn't mention specifically who he was initially as he knew I'd probably embarrass myself fangirling too much having been a Kicker fan since my early teens. I didn't meet Joel until he returned back to OK to open Stonecloud. Probably one of the most interesting things about Stonecloud, at least to me, is that the Stillwater location absolutely kills the OKC taproom in terms of numbers. I would have never guessed that but it does make sense considering the location and lack of good beer options there. :)

bille
03-04-2024, 02:34 PM
I would just like to add that Angry Scotsman seems to be another one that is doing well. They have a wide selection of great beers and a great patio. We go there for trivia every Wednesday night and it's always packed; same with bingo on Sundays. They also do a good job of marketing themselves and the events they host.

Glad to hear they are doing well, they are great people! They definitely have the best brewery taproom in OKC!

jedicurt
03-04-2024, 02:48 PM
it was total chaos trying to locate bottles and many were trading for insane values on the secondary market!

very much this... i actually had a 4 pack of Pirate Bomb and 2 4 packs of the normal bomb bottles, and ended up making a trip all the way to St Louis to meet a guy who drove in from Milwaukee to pay me $2000 for all of it. it was crazy, but it made the trip worth it. lol

EDIT: sorry i rounded up... actually only got $1,800 for all 12 bottles. because it was $150 a bottle.

bille
03-05-2024, 09:09 AM
very much this... i actually had a 4 pack of Pirate Bomb and 2 4 packs of the normal bomb bottles, and ended up making a trip all the way to St Louis to meet a guy who drove in from Milwaukee to pay me $2000 for all of it. it was crazy, but it made the trip worth it. lol

EDIT: sorry i rounded up... actually only got $1,800 for all 12 bottles. because it was $150 a bottle.

My first out of state trade was for one or two bottles of Pirate Bomb for a rather lopsided haul of Bruery goods (mainly two bottles of Black Tuesday). I can't recall if it was one or two bottles on my end but either way it was lopsided <but the going rate>. I threw in some extras for him because I felt a little guilty but I definitely came out way ahead on that trade.

corwin1968
03-05-2024, 09:46 AM
very much this... i actually had a 4 pack of Pirate Bomb and 2 4 packs of the normal bomb bottles, and ended up making a trip all the way to St Louis to meet a guy who drove in from Milwaukee to pay me $2000 for all of it. it was crazy, but it made the trip worth it. lol

EDIT: sorry i rounded up... actually only got $1,800 for all 12 bottles. because it was $150 a bottle.

That's crazy!! I guess it's a reflection of the times, but I consider Prairie's Bomb to be mediocre at best.

WhoRepsTheLurker
03-05-2024, 10:05 AM
Any insight as to why Elk Valley didn't make it?

The ABLE leadership change hurt Elk Valley. Before the new leader, John was told it was okay to make mead under his license. He had a voicemail and everything that he used for backup in case something went array. So he sunk a lot of money into the equipment and material necessary to make mead. But when the leadership change happened, he was told they couldn't make mead and that the voicemail and documentation he had from ABLE didn't matter. So they had to get rid of the product they had, hence their big mead sale in December before they closed.

In the final few months, he was losing between $8k to $20k a month.

Mballard85
03-05-2024, 10:20 AM
The ABLE leadership change hurt Elk Valley. Before the new leader, John was told it was okay to make mead under his license. He had a voicemail and everything that he used for backup in case something went array. So he sunk a lot of money into the equipment and material necessary to make mead. But when the leadership change happened, he was told they couldn't make mead and that the voicemail and documentation he had from ABLE didn't matter. So they had to get rid of the product they had, hence their big mead sale in December before they closed.

In the final few months, he was losing between $8k to $20k a month.

His mead was fantastic

bille
03-05-2024, 01:04 PM
His mead was fantastic

That mead was labeled as Elk Valley mead but in reality it was brewed by Burt Renard. Look him up, he has a "B's Meadery" page on FB I believe. He isn't commercial but is dabbling in it, initially with John at Elk Valley and currently collaborating with the fellas over at OK Cider. His meads are some of the best I have ever tried, I'm fortunate enough to get to try them regularly as he often brings samples to our homebrew club meetings. :)

corwin1968
03-28-2024, 01:57 PM
if BA stouts are your thing and you are down in the norman area, Beer Is Good Brewery has some pretty great stouts as well.

We live in far NW OKC but once Total Wine opens, we can make a day of it, stocking up on new varieties to try and then hitting the taphouse.

corwin1968
04-04-2024, 03:59 PM
This is a long-shot and probably a strange question, but there seem to be some people here with in-depth knowledge of the people behind many of the local breweries.

About 15 years ago, I worked with a girl whose husband was really into home brewing. She even brought me a sample for my opinion. His dream was to open his own brewery and now that I've really gotten into the brewery scene, I can't help wonder if they are involved in any of them. I don't remember her name but she was a licensed social worker at the time. Anyone know of any breweries where one of the owners used to be a social worker?

BoulderSooner
04-04-2024, 04:13 PM
This is a long-shot and probably a strange question, but there seem to be some people here with in-depth knowledge of the people behind many of the local breweries.

About 15 years ago, I worked with a girl whose husband was really into home brewing. She even brought me a sample for my opinion. His dream was to open his own brewery and now that I've really gotten into the brewery scene, I can't help wonder if they are involved in any of them. I don't remember her name but she was a licensed social worker at the time. Anyone know of any breweries where one of the owners used to be a social worker?

I sent you a message

corwin1968
04-10-2024, 12:12 PM
I don't recall it being mentioned in this thread, but does anyone know anything about the brewery going in to downtown Edmond? One of the locals, establishing a new location? An established brewery in another area setting up a satellite brewery? Something completely new?


Downtown Edmond is going to be amazing, with Frenzy, Prairie, American Solera and this new brewery.

https://nondoc.com/2024/04/09/after-tense-public-comment-council-adjusts-agreement-for-downtown-edmond-brewery/?fbclid=IwAR1tl9w9KkuabBAw89Pc4-NEVxKcs2F3MIeVk2QhB-hLEDpSM5cQBDAbTKQ_aem_AbUOYjTvf8-RgOQSSz8Ip_jj7IrY8Uyf3Gmu6DJPeA5gx-Qh_BNZpuVzpTcIKv_ujoQCwnahSUGi0KhvU2gRiSos

BoulderSooner
04-10-2024, 01:49 PM
I don't recall it being mentioned in this thread, but does anyone know anything about the brewery going in to downtown Edmond? One of the locals, establishing a new location? An established brewery in another area setting up a satellite brewery? Something completely new?


Downtown Edmond is going to be amazing, with Frenzy, Prairie, American Solera and this new brewery.

https://nondoc.com/2024/04/09/after-tense-public-comment-council-adjusts-agreement-for-downtown-edmond-brewery/?fbclid=IwAR1tl9w9KkuabBAw89Pc4-NEVxKcs2F3MIeVk2QhB-hLEDpSM5cQBDAbTKQ_aem_AbUOYjTvf8-RgOQSSz8Ip_jj7IrY8Uyf3Gmu6DJPeA5gx-Qh_BNZpuVzpTcIKv_ujoQCwnahSUGi0KhvU2gRiSos

from your post .. it will be Prairie ..

corwin1968
04-10-2024, 03:59 PM
from your post .. it will be Prairie ..

I read that article as Prairie plus another brewery, but it led me to an earlier article that made it sound like the two story building would be Prairie. Hard to image that right next to the Farmer's Market.

Johnb911
04-11-2024, 02:45 PM
It's just Prairie going into the new building on the first floor. City of Edmond just put out a video on their twitter feed of the approval meeting.

https://x.com/CityofEdmond/status/1778498256064094447

corwin1968
04-11-2024, 04:37 PM
It's just Prairie going into the new building on the first floor. City of Edmond just put out a video on their twitter feed of the approval meeting.

https://x.com/CityofEdmond/status/1778498256064094447

So, are they demolishing the storage shed and building on that site? I thought they were modifying that storage building and adding on to it.