I wasn't going to bring this up but since the thread is up right now. I'm was on I40 westbound on the way to work Tuesday. I was in the second to right lane where it's four lanes. I, as most cars at that time, was doing 67ish. A car came up behind me and got right on my bumper. He started flashing his lights. I really had nowhere to move or I would have gotten out of his way. I could see this in the left lane but in the right-center?

Yep, left lane is pretty much the only lane that anybody should be flashing their lights, that's officially the passing lane, and only if you're behind somebody going under the speed limit or not passing and just driving in stereo (same speed as the car in the next lane over). Any other lane and you want to go faster, then you should get in the left-er lanes.

I am starting to believe that there is a segment of the population that is so self-absorbed that they actually believe that they are the only ones on the road that have somewhere to go. Every other car on the freeway is there just to be in their way.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. They can't be bothered by stop signs/lights, speed limits, pedestrians... I've even witnessed people not moving over/stopping for emergency vehicles recently. I can only assume because wherever they are trying to get to is more important than some strangers life.

Every day I have to get off Hefner Parkway going South at 63rd to turn west. There are four (count them 4) signs there in various locations saying no turn on red. Almost every day I see people doing it anyway. If I'm right behind them, I usually honk my horn but I'm sure they don't care in the least.

Every day I have to get off Hefner Parkway going South at 63rd to turn west. There are four (count them 4) signs there in various locations saying no turn on red. Almost every day I see people doing it anyway. If I'm right behind them, I usually honk my horn but I'm sure they don't care in the least.I pick up my wife every day at Homeland's corp office at 36th & Lincoln. I come from the south and get off I235 at 36th and turn right on 36th. NO TURN ON RED sign big as could be. I get honked at once or twice a week because I sit waiting for green. ??????

Some "no turn on red" signs are like the stop sign at 66th/Independence (I believe that's the one), which is completely worthless. The only way someone going north on Independence can go is to turn right on 66th, the only way someone going west on 66th can go is to turn left on Independence, neither car can actually hit each other if there's no stop sign, absolutely no reason for it to be there. The reason for most "no turn on red" is limited visibility, and I have absolutely no problem with turning on red even if there's a sign if I can see there's nobody coming (but I pay attention moreso than tons of other OKC drivers). There are intersections, however, that are more complex that have the signs, and I won't turn on red at those (like 36th/Springlake/Kelley, or any intersection that has a diagonal street intersecting 2 perpendicular streets), but at 36th/235 and 63rd/parkway, I turn right on red all the time (unless my radar detector lights up). I'd never honk at someone waiting for a light to turn green if it says "no turn on red", but if I'm first, I will turn right on red most of the time.

Some "no turn on red" signs are like the stop sign at 66th/Independence (I believe that's the one), which is completely worthless. The only way someone going north on Independence can go is to turn right on 66th, the only way someone going west on 66th can go is to turn left on Independence, neither car can actually hit each other if there's no stop sign, absolutely no reason for it to be there. The reason for most "no turn on red" is limited visibility, and I have absolutely no problem with turning on red even if there's a sign if I can see there's nobody coming (but I pay attention moreso than tons of other OKC drivers). There are intersections, however, that are more complex that have the signs, and I won't turn on red at those (like 36th/Springlake/Kelley, or any intersection that has a diagonal street intersecting 2 perpendicular streets), but at 36th/235 and 63rd/parkway, I turn right on red all the time (unless my radar detector lights up). I'd never honk at someone waiting for a light to turn green if it says "no turn on red", but if I'm first, I will turn right on red most of the time.

I think you are mistaken about 66th and Independence. That is a residential area and there is no light or stop sign there. (I'm assuming that you mean NW 66th). When you get to 69th you can only turn right and the people going west on 69th can only turn left. I agree that the stop sign really accomplishes little except perhaps protecting someone backing out of the driveway immediately after the right turn. I'm not sure I agree, however, about the no turn on red signs. I don't think those are put up without any thought, even if they may be inconvenient in places. Also, those signs are not put up only for those who are bad drivers. If a bad driver sees you doing that why would they not think it's OK for them to do that too, even if they don't take precautions.

Sorry, this is quite off-topic, but this is the thread I saw it in, so will ask here...if it can be discussed, why is ljbab728 showing as banned? I can't recall any particularly incendiary posts from that user, and don't see any in recent posting history either. Did someone mean to ban the random person who decided to necro a bunch of threads to add irrelevant posts with insanely stupid 'jokes' and had bad aim?

Some "no turn on red" signs are like the stop sign at 66th/Independence (I believe that's the one), which is completely worthless. The only way someone going north on Independence can go is to turn right on 66th, the only way someone going west on 66th can go is to turn left on Independence, neither car can actually hit each other if there's no stop sign, absolutely no reason for it to be there. The reason for most "no turn on red" is limited visibility, and I have absolutely no problem with turning on red even if there's a sign if I can see there's nobody coming (but I pay attention moreso than tons of other OKC drivers). There are intersections, however, that are more complex that have the signs, and I won't turn on red at those (like 36th/Springlake/Kelley, or any intersection that has a diagonal street intersecting 2 perpendicular streets), but at 36th/235 and 63rd/parkway, I turn right on red all the time (unless my radar detector lights up). I'd never honk at someone waiting for a light to turn green if it says "no turn on red", but if I'm first, I will turn right on red most of the time.I used to go on ahead myself. As I said I'm at 235 and 36th most weekdays. Turning there on red cost me a couple hundred bucks I didn't have about 3 years ago. Now I wait.

I used to go on ahead myself. As I said I'm at 235 and 36th most weekdays. Turning there on red cost me a couple hundred bucks I didn't have about 3 years ago. Now I wait.

Hence my statement about my radar detector (no, it won't sound if they don't have their radar on, but a majority cops run with their radar on all the time around here). :)

I think you are mistaken about 66th and Independence. That is a residential area and there is no light or stop sign there. (I'm assuming that you mean NW 66th). When you get to 69th you can only turn right and the people going west on 69th can only turn left. I agree that the stop sign really accomplishes little except perhaps protecting someone backing out of the driveway immediately after the right turn. I'm not sure I agree, however, about the no turn on red signs. I don't think those are put up without any thought, even if they may be inconvenient in places. Also, those signs are not put up only for those who are bad drivers. If a bad driver sees you doing that why would they not think it's OK for them to do that too, even if they don't take precautions.

Yeah, guess it is 69th, my bad - I didn't check google maps before posting.

And I also agree that "no turn on red" aren't put up without any thought, but to me they're put up to protect the drivers that don't pay attention from themselves (and others). The one on 36th is on a hill, the one on 63rd has limited visibility, and I can see perfectly fine enough if there are no cars coming and it's safe, and my car's fast enough to speed up if someone suddenly does come barrelling up behind me. I'm not responsible for how other drivers think, so if they see me do something and emulate it, that's on them, not me.

^^^ At 63rd & Hefner Parkway, I've seen the traffic cops hiding in that office parking lot just to the west, so be advised.

^^^ At 63rd & Hefner Parkway, I've seen the traffic cops hiding in that office parking lot just to the west, so be advised.

Of course they are, easier for them to get the low-hanging fruit rather than hiding at an intersection that has multiple red-light runners and is *truly* dangerous. Thx for the tip, though, luckily we are very rarely on the parkway (or 235) now that we live on 36th/May. :)

So as I'm switching to reverse to back into my parking space in my companies parking lot this morning. Some jacka$$ cuts behind me, through my parking space as I'm backing into it.

He parked in the lot next to ours and I was headed over to confront him but he took off running.... Wish he had parked in our lot. I'd have a tow truck on the way already!

^^^ Sadly, lack of respect and consideration for others is becoming all too common. Daily on my path home from work, I witness people driving over the double yellow lines in order to make the left turn light. It doesn't matter how many people are waiting in line ahead of them ...legally I might add, ...to take their turn at the light, these people will drive completely over the double yellow into the oncoming traffic lanes well before the striped safety zones, essentially cutting the line so they can make the light. I watched a guy on a motorcycle do it the other day, and then run the yellow left turn signal as it was changing to red. Knuckleheads... all of them.

^ Yeah... I see that happen way too often too.

Last week when I was driving down Oklahoma Ave, they must've let all the idiots out.

First thing is I almost hit a jogger who ran out in front of me. Mid block (not at a crosswalk) he just darted out in front of me with no warning.

Then, about a block and a half later, at 6th St., I had a green light to go through the intersection. Some douche stopped on 6th decides to make a right turn in front of me. If I had the green, then he obviously had the red. And it wasn't like the light had just changed. I honked at him and then swerved around him and ended up in front of him. He had the audacity to honk and get mad at me. When people like that think they're in the right, I feel that there's no hope for good driving.

Lastly, about a half hour later when I was driving north on I-35, some lady got mad at me because I didn't stop and let her on. I was traveling at speed and had cars next to me so I couldn't get over. The on ramp has the yield sign, yet she wanted me to yield to her and let her on which would have upset the flow of traffic (it was between 4:30pm and 5pm so traffic was picking up). She flipped me off because she didn't understand a simple rule of the road.

People can be idiots.

Traxx, merging is something of a lost art form in this state. It's even worse here than in Los Angeles during rush hour. I had something kind of similar happen, and I wish that people here would learn how cloverleaves work. You continue through into the merge lane, and then move into traffic lanes when it's clear to do so. I had a lady suddenly slam on the brakes at the yield sign and I almost rear-ended her.

To top it off, I had a slow left-lane driver flip me off and honk today because I passed to the right and moved in front of him to pass someone in the center lane. There isn't any reason to ever be moving 5 under the limit in the left lane unless you have a left exit approaching.

I agree with merging being a lost art. I've probably said before, maybe in this thread, but when I'm on an on ramp, I'm already getting up to speed and looking for a space or a break in the traffic to fit into. I don't wait until the end of the merge lane and slam on my breaks or expect the other person to just let me in.

As far as the left lane thing, you may have noticed that outside the metro they've put up signs saying that left lane is for passing only. I doubt anyone will ever get a ticket for camping out in the left lane, but these signs are already being ignored. Saturday I was traveling west of the city on I-40 and a bunch of us got stuck behind one semi trying to pass another semi and they couldn't.

A couple days ago we're going west on NW Expressway between May and Portland at about 4:00PM. In the center lane. A big, jacked up truck with tires almost the size of my car came up beside us in the left lane. After a very little bit he started revving his engine, surging forward and back, then started laying on the horn. He wanted me to slow down or move right and let him pass a car in the left lane. There were cars behind me and to the right. My wife was FREAKING out!!! Besides, at that time of day on that road he wasn't going anywhere too fast anyway. Too much traffic.

^^^ Ahh yes. ... The Compensator.

There's a lot of those running around.

Yeah... I had one of those pass me doing about 70 on Shields the other day. Then when the light turns green he takes off tires spinning and skidding back and forth across I-240. I was turning into the Home Depot there and I noticed he was circling around behind the oil change place tires still squealing and acting the maniac.

I sat and watched for a bit and he was apparently opening the oil change place but once he got parked he spent a couple of minutes in his truck smoking a cigarette, or crack, and then casually sauntered across the parking lot..... Apparently his was so small he just had to become one big one.

Was gonna say if that was a cayman you saw I'd have to duck and hide here lol

Again with the yielding. Today traveling south on I-35 where I-44 merges with it. There were multiple cars merging and I try to time it to do the zipper effect where one goes in front of me and one goes behind me and so on. Well this person screwed the merge all up. They nearly hit me and I guess were surprised to see me there as they didn't bother to look. I couldn't move left because I did bother to look and there were cars in that lane.

Again with the yielding. Today traveling south on I-35 where I-44 merges with it. There were multiple cars merging and I try to time it to do the zipper effect where one goes in front of me and one goes behind me and so on. Well this person screwed the merge all up. They nearly hit me and I guess were surprised to see me there as they didn't bother to look. I couldn't move left because I did bother to look and there were cars in that lane.It's amazing how many people think you just come up the ramp and move in regardless of who's already there.

I was driving down 235 this morning where the big slowdown is there at the 44 junction. I was behind an SUV that was going really slow, hitting its brakes every so often etc. I saw the lane next to me was moving faster and saw a break in the traffic so I moved over to that lane. When I passed the SUV that was in front of me I saw that there was no on in front of them. There were at least 15 or so car lengths between the SUV and the car in front of it. I thought they were driving slow because of traffic but there ended up being no one in front of them.

I don't understand people's thought process when they do stuff like this. I've seen this happen before. Do they not have anywhere to be? Why would they do that? We're all moving slow because of traffic and construction, don't make it any slower than it needs to be.

I see stuff like that pretty often on my commute home. I always presume that just get comfortable going whatever speed the traffic had slowed down to and don't notice when traffic starts going faster than they are. Typically they're the ones in my experience that are most likely to start zooming as soon as they notice you passing them.

I've seen a lot of people brake checking with no one in front of them recently too... Not necessarily going slow but just brake checking for no good reason.... Well I suspect the reason is cell phone use... Which just strengthens my no good reason argument.

I've seen a lot of people brake checking with no one in front of them recently too... Not necessarily going slow but just brake checking for no good reason.... Well I suspect the reason is cell phone use... Which just strengthens my no good reason argument.

100% this. I've noticed this a lot too. It drives me crazy. That's a good way to cause a wreck when you're brake checking for no good reason. I also see this a lot when people are approaching an intersection where the light is, and has been, green. That's not the time to slow down. Maintain speed and make it through the light and maybe some of the cars behind you can make it through as well.

100% this. I've noticed this a lot too. It drives me crazy. That's a good way to cause a wreck when you're brake checking for no good reason. I also see this a lot when people are approaching an intersection where the light is, and has been, green. That's not the time to slow down. Maintain speed and make it through the light and maybe some of the cars behind you can make it through as well.

Yep... see people doing it at green lights too.... Have to admit with the number of people I see running red lights these days it may be making people skittish.... Running red lights is so common now that I see it at the majority of intersections and it's usually multiple vehicles. I've seen people running lights that have been red for several seconds before they get to the intersection on Shields.

You all should come try NB Lincoln from the Capitol to I-44 at 5pm.
I've never seen so many people on their phones doing 10+ UNDER the 45mph speed limit.

Wife has started slowing down at green lights too, no idea why, I've asked her and she just can't come up with a reason (also drives 10 under and other stupid stuff, but doesn't talk on the phone while driving, so I'll give her that). Love to have her take a driving test at one of those driving schools so she can see how bad her habits are...

Drivers training isn't taught in schools anymore, and the driving schools don't teach much any more. They are all for profit and therefore run as many people through as they can. I was amazed at how much my now 18 year old daughter wasn't taught. They didn't even watch those signal 30 films like we had to do.

I let up and slow somewhat when going through a steady green light, but that comes from many years of riding a motorcycle. Blatant red light running has become a regular occurance, as is driving over the double yellow line into oncoming traffic to make a left turn light.

I was driving down 235 this morning where the big slowdown is there at the 44 junction. I was behind an SUV that was going really slow, hitting its brakes every so often etc. I saw the lane next to me was moving faster and saw a break in the traffic so I moved over to that lane. When I passed the SUV that was in front of me I saw that there was no on in front of them. There were at least 15 or so car lengths between the SUV and the car in front of it. I thought they were driving slow because of traffic but there ended up being no one in front of them.

I don't understand people's thought process when they do stuff like this. I've seen this happen before. Do they not have anywhere to be? Why would they do that? We're all moving slow because of traffic and construction, don't make it any slower than it needs to be.

Was the person on the phone? If not, some people are too afraid to drive near the speed limit, especially if they are sight impaired.

Had a driver make a sudden lane change in front of me on Shields this morning. While we were sitting at the stoplight I noticed her dome light was on and there was a flurry of activity around her head. Assuming she was putting on makeup. When the light turned green she went about 100' and brake checked but was still accelerating... Eventually she got about 5 mph over the speed limit and I was falling back doing the speed limit but I counted 22 brake checks from I-240 and Shields to when I caught back up to her at the next stop light.

After that light she continued brake checking while making erratic lane changes. I cut over to Robinson at 44th street. So I don't know if she managed to maim/injure/kill anyone beyond that point or not.

Was the person on the phone? If not, some people are too afraid to drive near the speed limit, especially if they are sight impaired.

I couldn't see in the window to see if they were on the phone. But they weren't anywhere close to approaching the speed limit so that wasn't an issue.

I've seen a lot of people brake checking with no one in front of them recently too... Not necessarily going slow but just brake checking for no good reason.... Well I suspect the reason is cell phone use... Which just strengthens my no good reason argument.

This definitely the reason. Put your phone AWAY!

Regarding merging, I've always operated on the zipper effect (as mentioned above). For example, if you are eastbound on 44 and take the southbound I235 exit, there is effectively no merge lane. Since traffic is rarely going more than 20 MPH at that point at 7:30 a.m., what is the harm in existing 235 traffic letting me in? It's not as if you have to slam on the brakes and impede traffic. Last week, when I would reach the merge point, there was at least one vehicle that refused to let me in on each day. I understand the anger caused when northbound 235 traffic in the inside lane races to the lane end at 36th St, then tries to force you to let them in; but the situation I mentioned isn't one where I'm "jumping the line". You can't use the merge area to match speed as there isn't a merge area. I almost always start leaving a gap so oncoming traffic can merge. It doesn't cost me any time and keep the traffic moving.

^^^

But that kind of logic goes totally against the philosophy of the Me First society we are living in.

100% this. I've noticed this a lot too. It drives me crazy. That's a good way to cause a wreck when you're brake checking for no good reason. I also see this a lot when people are approaching an intersection where the light is, and has been, green. That's not the time to slow down. Maintain speed and make it through the light and maybe some of the cars behind you can make it through as well.

Good driver's education is to slow and check the intersection before entering it even where you have a clear right of way. You lose points on a driver's test for failing to do so. Being right doesn't keep you alive. It's called defensive driving.

God forbid you get somewhere two minutes later. Sure that's worth someone's life.

Good driver's education is to slow and check the intersection before entering it even where you have a clear right of way. You lose points on a driver's test for failing to do so. Being right doesn't keep you alive. It's called defensive driving.

God forbid you get somewhere two minutes later. Sure that's worth someone's life.

You can slow down by taking your foot off the gas without hitting your brakes. And it's not about arriving 2 minutes later, it's about saving gas. Having to stop at a light that you should've been able to make it through, then having to sit through a light cycle and then having to accelerate up to speed when the light turns green is not an efficient use of gas. And it adds up when a street has several lights along the way.

On top of that, like I said above, brake checking when going through a green light is a good way to cause a wreck. Sure, I'm paying attention to the brake checker in front of me, but there's no guarantee that the person behind me is. So I hit my brakes to avoid hitting the brake checker in front of me but the person behind me slams into me and now I've got to deal with their insurance, not having a car while it's repaired, police report, possible whiplash while the moron who brake checked on a green light continues on, oblivious to the trouble their bad driving caused.

And nothing I said indicated that I thought 2 minutes was worth someone's life, but thanks for assuming that's what I meant. I always assume that someone else is gonna make a boneheaded move and anticipate what they're going to do and what I need to do to avoid a wreck. Whether it's in an intersection or anywhere else on the road. But I do it without brake checking and endangering the people behind me.

My guiding rule while driving is not to do anything that would cause someone else to have to make a corrective move to avoid me.

I had an epiphany on my way to work this morning...

Normally I avoid I-35 like the plague if I can't get on it before 7 AM and take Shields downtown. This morning as I was approaching I-35 I noticed traffic was moving very smoothly. So I made the snap decision to hop on and enjoy this anomaly.

Got about half way to downtown. Everyone was driving friendly, doing at, or near, the speed limit, no swerving between lanes, no brake checking.... Then it dawned on me what today is!

Even when I got off the interstate I only saw one car run a red light this morning... Most mornings I see multiple cars run every signalized intersection.... I'm guessing this must have been one of those "essential" government employees that didn't get today off.

Take the government employees off the highways and they become safe and enjoyable to drive on.... Everything runs smoothly... Imagine that!!! ;)

I had an epiphany on my way to work this morning...

Normally I avoid I-35 like the plague if I can't get on it before 7 AM and take Shields downtown. This morning as I was approaching I-35 I noticed traffic was moving very smoothly. So I made the snap decision to hop on and enjoy this anomaly.

Got about half way to downtown. Everyone was driving friendly, doing at, or near, the speed limit, no swerving between lanes, no brake checking.... Then it dawned on me what today is!

Even when I got off the interstate I only saw one car run a red light this morning... Most mornings I see multiple cars run every signalized intersection.... I'm guessing this must have been one of those "essential" government employees that didn't get today off.

Take the government employees off the highways and they become safe and enjoyable to drive on.... Everything runs smoothly... Imagine that!!! ;)

Nope it's all the bankers not going into work. Gotta dodge those BMWs and Audis that never seem to have blinkers working...

Wow this morning was definitely interesting for traffic in OKC.... Saw a school bus speeding through a school zone and an OKC police car, a black one none the less, driving without any lights on.... SMH

Wow this morning was definitely interesting for traffic in OKC.... Saw a school bus speeding through a school zone and an OKC police car, a black one none the less, driving without any lights on.... SMH

I'm not that surprised, really. What I am surprised about is that anyone would consider adding parallel parking to Reno.

Has anyone SEEN people try to parallel park properly here?

Glad to see OCPD working the construction zone around NW 178th & Western. Have seen marked and unmarked ,as well as motor jocks working the area. I know this is a problem all over, but this area seems to have some of the most prolific speeders, stop sign and red light runners in town. A couple days ago, as I pulled out of my neighborhood, I had the pleasure of watching a lady in front of me in a white Ford Explorer, who had just blatantly blew through a stop sign, and sped through the construction zone get pulled over by an unmarked OCPD unit that was on the other end of the construction zone. This morning there were 2 motor jocks working it. Each had someone pulled over. I’ve worked construction zones before, and the idiocy of many motorists is mind boggling.

I'm not that surprised, really. What I am surprised about is that anyone would consider adding parallel parking to Reno.

Has anyone SEEN people try to parallel park properly here?

I got princess parking right in front of 420 w. Main last week. I’m cozied up next to the car in the space in front, with my blinker on and the car in reverse as some ***hat tried to pull in forward after making a left on walker. I just kept on backing in while they honked in protest as if somehow by dipping a crooked toe in the space that they had claim to it...crazy. I got the spot of course and it only takes one shot if done properly from reverse. I get heat on 23rd all the time for this as if pulling in forward, blocking half the lane then proceeding to do a 10 point correction is the right way vs stopping for a few seconds and backing in.

I only forward parallel park if there are 2 spaces open where I can literally get it right without even having to change gears. It'll be interesting to watch people's parallel parking when the streetcar starts rolling down the streets.

Couldn't really find a more appropriate thread, so it goes here. What I've been wondering about (what effect do all the new safety gadgets have on driving?) is apparently true - people start to depend on them rather than using their own senses. When I get a new car, I plan on turning most of them off (if possible and it's prudent to do so - I have no idea which ones my new car will have yet).

Your driver-assist system may be out of alignment… with your understanding of how it works (https://theconversation.com/your-driver-assist-system-may-be-out-of-alignment-with-your-understanding-of-how-it-works-166471)

I've been listening to a podcast recently that has been really critical about self driving technology and how Telsa has basically been beta testing self driving technology on public roads. The design of the system allows drivers to use these features without holding them accountable for paying attention to the roadway. Then when the car get in an accident, it's the drivers fault for not paying attention, rather than Tesla fault for releasing features that are not road worthy yet. Something like 75 Tesla's have hit emergency responders while self-driving over a period of two or three years. I am not a Telsa hater and I think they have done great stuff including pushing every legacy manufacturer to add electric cars to their line up, but they have a tendency to overpromise and underdeliver. When we're talking about cars supposedly driving themselves on public roadways, that scares the heck out of me.

I have always been acutely aware of the fact that my life is at risk every time I am behind the wheel. My father had a 76 'Vette land on top of him before I was born and is permanently scarred and disabled from the accident. Also, My step-mother died in a car crash when I was 11. I just bought a car I've lusted after for a good while, but its small, low and with no air bags. I've considered getting Ricaro's and a 4 point harness because 1) Racecar! and 2) If my passenger died in my car, I'd never forgive myself. I've found it fascinating that in the world of motorsports can have cars fall off a cliff (See Evo corner) or sustain 50+ G impacts, and the driver can just walk away. The safety equipment is available, but generally as consumers we value comfort over safety.

Sorry for the rant, but along those lines, someone mentioned having some sort of indicator to inform other drivers that autonomous features are actively being utilized. I think that should be the case for all driver assist features. I would like to know if the car in front of me keeps needing the lane assist, or the car behind me would've rear ended me if the sensors didn't see me. I think more people would pay closer attention if they knew drivers around them could see they were driving like a jackwagon. I'm sure people like Shawnw would like to know the oncoming car is driving itself before crossing an intersection. Finally, I agree with your plan to turn all driver assist features off. The thought that my steering wheel could be overridden by software makes me uneasy at 80 mph on Oklahoma roads where we use bottom of the barrel marking.

I've been listening to a podcast recently that has been really critical about self driving technology and how Telsa has basically been beta testing self driving technology on public roads. The design of the system allows drivers to use these features without holding them accountable for paying attention to the roadway. Then when the car get in an accident, it's the drivers fault for not paying attention, rather than Tesla fault for releasing features that are not road worthy yet. Something like 75 Tesla's have hit emergency responders while self-driving over a period of two or three years. I am not a Telsa hater and I think they have done great stuff including pushing every legacy manufacturer to add electric cars to their line up, but they have a tendency to overpromise and underdeliver. When we're talking about cars supposedly driving themselves on public roadways, that scares the heck out of me.

I have always been acutely aware of the fact that my life is at risk every time I am behind the wheel. My father had a 76 'Vette land on top of him before I was born and is permanently scarred and disabled from the accident. Also, My step-mother died in a car crash when I was 11. I just bought a car I've lusted after for a good while, but its small, low and with no air bags. I've considered getting Ricaro's and a 4 point harness because 1) Racecar! and 2) If my passenger died in my car, I'd never forgive myself. I've found it fascinating that in the world of motorsports can have cars fall off a cliff (See Evo corner) or sustain 50+ G impacts, and the driver can just walk away. The safety equipment is available, but generally as consumers we value comfort over safety.

Sorry for the rant, but along those lines, someone mentioned having some sort of indicator to inform other drivers that autonomous features are actively being utilized. I think that should be the case for all driver assist features. I would like to know if the car in front of me keeps needing the lane assist, or the car behind me would've rear ended me if the sensors didn't see me. I think more people would pay closer attention if they knew drivers around them could see they were driving like a jackwagon. I'm sure people like Shawnw would like to know the oncoming car is driving itself before crossing an intersection. Finally, I agree with your plan to turn all driver assist features off. The thought that my steering wheel could be overridden by software makes me uneasy at 80 mph on Oklahoma roads where we use bottom of the barrel marking.

Pretty much agree with all of the above. Especially the last sentence (although I'm not sure that standard driver assist features could grab your steering wheel, thought only Teslas or other autopilots (if there are any) could do that, but I admit I'm not up to speed :) on the world of driver assistance, need to read up on it). The last sentence is absolutely what will make self-driving or autonomous vehicles completely impractical in OK. The lines on city streets just do not exist or are in any way up to the standard that sensors need to have them to be usable, and on the highways/parkways/tollways, they're not much better.

My fairly new Honda Accord does lane management. It doesn't fully grab your steering wheel but it will keep you inside the lines if it can detect them (doesn't work perfectly 100% of the time) if you have it toggled on and it will give you a bump if it senses a lane departure. Don't imagine people going down the road not paying any attention, it also forces you to maintain steering wheel contact or it will warn you and then turn the automatic features off. It's impressive technology, but is still clearly a work in progress.

My fairly new Honda Accord does lane management. It doesn't fully grab your steering wheel but it will keep you inside the lines if it can detect them (doesn't work perfectly 100% of the time) if you have it toggled on and it will give you a bump if it senses a lane departure. Don't imagine people going down the road not paying any attention, it also forces you to maintain steering wheel contact or it will warn you and then turn the automatic features off. It's impressive technology, but is still clearly a work in progress.

I may have exaggerated a little. My point was the thought of some sort of secondary system that could physically change the directions my wheels are pointed makes me uneasy. Chevy's Lane Keep Assist can make slight adjustments to the steering wheel to guide you back into your lane. For the most part, I take comfort in the fact that I know how the mechanical systems function and know the ways they can fail. When it comes to these features, they feel more like a black box to me. However, I have never driven a vehicle with these features so I may just be paranoid.

I don't necessarily imagine people not paying any attention, just a sort of moral hazard. We shouldn't text and drive, but these features protect you from consequences. But the day someone turns the features off, forget they are off, and responds to a text could be a fatal one because they expect a warning.

I think the technology has a place on the roads and will continue to improve. I'm not opposed to it's use or think it should be outlawed. I just feel like there were a clearer framework because Telsa's recent behavior makes it feel like the wild west.