http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/turnpikes022222b.jpg

thanks pete

Looking at the satellite view of the route on Google Maps, Indian Hills is more empty than I would have expected. Shouldn't be too big of an impact other than a few areas with residential landowners and one or two commercial areas. There's a long stretch of it west of I-35 that is entirely undeveloped on the north side.

After seeing this map my concerns are alleviated. This is probably going to drastically increase my land's value that's out south of thunderbird that was "out in the middle of nowhere." All of a sudden it's going to be 10 miles closer to a highway.

Going to be an absolute war over both the Kickapoo extension and (especially) the new Moore/Norman turnpike. Given that OTA ultimately got both the first segment of the Kickapoo as well as the SW Kilpatrick extension through with few changes to their original plans, I’d probably bet on them getting both of these through as well, but man. Going to be a wild time in local politics in those areas.

This is great. I can’t wait to see it start!

Just the perception of this goes a longggggg ways, even if we're a decade off from being built.

I just hope they keep the new website updated better than the old one.

No mention of Kilpatrick on and off ramps being redone along Memorial.

No mention of Kilpatrick on and off ramps being redone along Memorial.
I’m hoping that comes with the reconstruction and widening of the JKT but you’re right. Hopefully that gets done.

Another note, it looks like our first full stack interchange will come to I-35 with the Moore-Norman turnpike. This is an awesome plan. Given the fact the preliminary plans call for service roads through the interchange it looks like it will be a five stack. Finally!!!

OTA meeting today https://video.ibm.com/recorded/131389798. Turnpike discussion starts at about 1:54:00 mark.

No mention of Kilpatrick on and off ramps being redone along Memorial.

They are adding direct ramps at the Lake Hefner Parkway (NB to WB and EB to SB). No mention was made of the "X" ramps mentioned above.

They are adding direct ramps at the Lake Hefner Parkway (NB to WB and EB to SB). No mention was made of the "X" ramps mentioned above.

Awww man, I need the EB->NB and SB->WB onramps. Oh well, good to see the turnpike widened to Tulsa. Wonder how bad the lane closures will be in the process though.

Awww man, I need the EB->NB and SB->WB onramps. Oh well, good to see the turnpike widened to Tulsa. Wonder how bad the lane closures will be in the process though.

Shouldn’t be too bad for a widening project. That five-stack at I-35 & Indian Hills will probably be brutal though.

Shouldn’t be too bad for a widening project. That five-stack at I-35 & Indian Hills will probably be brutal though.
Don’t you jinx that!

News articles:

https://www.news9.com/story/62156a3afb567d0f23648fd4/5-billion-access-oklahoma-plan-aims-to-improve-traffic-statewide

https://kfor.com/news/local/new-5-billion-oklahoma-turnpike-plan-expected-to-shorten-commutes-and-ease-congestion/

They are adding direct ramps at the Lake Hefner Parkway (NB to WB and EB to SB). No mention was made of the "X" ramps mentioned above.

Yeah, those ramps coming to and from the west should have been added when they first built to I40.

I guess since the congestion mostly affects Memorial, the OTA doesn't care. It's the cities problem.

I am a little surprised with the amount of new lane miles west of i35 and south of i40 that are prioritized before a east/west road a few mile north of downtown Edmond between i35 & 74. The amount of omitted interchanges with the mile grid around the metro still seems odd too, especially in areas they are planning to widen.

Excited for all of the projects, but it’s a shame the Chickasaw Turnpike isn’t getting any upgrades. It was designed to be a 4 lane connecting Ada to I-35, but it was only built as 2 lanes with a speed limit of 65. Shameful excuse for a turnpike if you ask me.

Yeah it's a shame that the Chickasaw Turnpike was left out, they need to upgrade it to 4 lanes, but part of it is now a truck route around Sulphur, the turnpike doesn't start til after it crosses 177, I wish ODOT would take over the Turnpike and then make it into a 4 lane, it's past time that Ada gets a 4 lane access to the interstate, anyways like the idea of 6 lanes from OKC to Bristow.

I am a little surprised with the amount of new lane miles west of i35 and south of i40 that are prioritized before a east/west road a few mile north of downtown Edmond between i35 & 74. The amount of omitted interchanges with the mile grid around the metro still seems odd too, especially in areas they are planning to widen.

Unfortunately, this makes me think it won't happen at all even though it is sorely needed. To get from I-35 to HWY 74 takes 40-45 minutes on most streets. The issue is where could you run the highway East to West without having to tear out a ton of homes. The area I think that would be best would be the mid split mile between Covell and Coffee Creek which is currently a utility right of way which would need to be addressed. South of Covell isn't happening and without it happening soon, it may be pushed north of Waterloo possibly all the way to Forrest Hills.

If/when the SH-74 to I-35 connector ever happens, I don’t see any way it’s going to happen south of Waterloo. TBH it looks like everything up to Forrest Hills has more current density than the Moore-Norman connector, which in and of itself is probably going to face a lot of opposition. As of right now you could probably do something roughly from SH-74/Charter Oak, snaking NE to Western/Forrest Hills, then moving more or less E/ENE and ending at I-35 just south of the Seward Rd. interchange. But this just gets tougher and tougher with each passing year because there’s really quite a lot of houses being built in southern Logan County.

The traffic count doesn't justify it. The CT was a patronage deal.

Lonnie Abbott was a powerful representative in the 70's and 80's, He always wanted a turnpike from Davis through Ada to Henryetta. The Chickasaw was what they paid him off with to get the Kilpatrick and Creek turnpikes.

People are fired up on FB about the South Extension. Gonna have to pop some popcorn.

People are fired up on FB about the South Extension. Gonna have to pop some popcorn.

Won't matter too much, just noise. Too much precedent and authority to get what they want done.

People are fired up on FB about the South Extension. Gonna have to pop some popcorn.

i mean i live a mile from Indian Hills. and i am thrilled about it... will make my daily commute so much better

People are fired up on FB about the South Extension. Gonna have to pop some popcorn.

Yes! OTA doesn't have many of the same obligations to the public as ODOT does in terms of meetings and some other stuff. They can just plot and go as they please. That's why the alternate Z (ODOT's attempt some 20-25 years ago) through this area was shot down due to the noise garnered by multiple public meetings. There's a small college near there that was instrumental in steering ODOT away. I've always thought OTA would come through to the rescue! LOL

Yes! OTA doesn't have many of the same obligations to the public as ODOT does in terms of meetings and some other stuff. They can just plot and go as they please. That's why the alternate Z (ODOT's attempt some 20-25 years ago) through this area was shot down due to the noise garnered by multiple public meetings. There's a small college near there that was instrumental in steering ODOT away. I've always thought OTA would come through to the rescue! LOL

Which is hilarious because it’s pretty much impossible for anything to be built closer to Randall than I-35 already is.

If/when the SH-74 to I-35 connector ever happens, I don’t see any way it’s going to happen south of Waterloo. TBH it looks like everything up to Forrest Hills has more current density than the Moore-Norman connector, which in and of itself is probably going to face a lot of opposition. As of right now you could probably do something roughly from SH-74/Charter Oak, snaking NE to Western/Forrest Hills, then moving more or less E/ENE and ending at I-35 just south of the Seward Rd. interchange. But this just gets tougher and tougher with each passing year because there’s really quite a lot of houses being built in southern Logan County.

There's a new housing development on the 2nd 1/2 mi. south of Seward Rd. and l35. It would have to connect at Seward Rd.

this sets up OKC nicely for expected growth.

On that note, I wonder why E Oklahoma County is not the designated growth area? You'd think people would want tree lined streets and hills that naturally occur in this sector.

i mean i live a mile from Indian Hills. and i am thrilled about it... will make my daily commute so much better

We're a mile north of Indian Hills and on one hand I'm excited about the possibility of how quick we'll be able to get east/west but we also know several that will be displaced by this as well.

One thing for sure is it'll be way different having a turnpike running down where there's currently a two lane road and not a lot of traffic.

this sets up OKC nicely for expected growth.

On that note, I wonder why E Oklahoma County is not the designated growth area? You'd think people would want tree lined streets and hills that naturally occur in this sector.

E Oklahoma County doesn’t have an economic engine anywhere near Paycom on the NW side or Hobby Lobby on the SW side, is my guess.

E Oklahoma County doesn’t have an economic engine anywhere near Paycom on the NW side or Hobby Lobby on the SW side, is my guess.

lol eastern Oklahoma county has the biggest economic engine in the entire state ... TINKER AFB

VeloCity article: https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/development/officials-unveil-first-look-at-access-oklahoma-turnpike-plan/?back=super_blog

Definintely a nice way to fix the E/W missing link in the Moore/Norman area, but that SE link from 35 to 40 will be huge for bypassing OKC alltogether for truck traffic. Hopefully, a lot of them take it and ease the traffic in town. Now if they'd just connect that curve on 35 at Norman, straight on up to 44, you'd get the 35 to 40 traffic going west too.

I only wish we could build these types of roads without them being toll. We have so much freaking toll mileage in Oklahoma and it's expanding so quickly. It won't be long and we'll be more toll than regular interstate.

Honestly feels like the only realistic way to get this stuff built these days is via OTA. Not only do they have a consistent revenue stream that isn’t reliant on the state legislature, they also can largely avoid the public hearings that so often kill these types of projects. Not saying that that’s right or wrong, morally speaking, but I don’t think you can look at the outcome of the “Driving Forward” projects and come to any other conclusion.

If the state appropriated enough funding to ODOT, the agency could match more federal dollars available for road construction. Alas, you have OTA as the alternative. I think OTA often gets a bad rep. We have to remember that where there's a turnpike there probably wouldn't have been a limited access highway there for 25, 50, 75 years, or maybe even never, given the lack of state funding. And really, OTA keeps their facilities very well maintained for the most part. And winter weather, they are the most clear roadways anywhere and quickly at that.

I grew up on the south side and think the I-35 -> I-44 connector is probably the best news of this announcement. Due to the river and lack of development in this area there is not really an efficient way to cross over from one to the other.

I grew up on the south side and think the I-35 -> I-44 connector is probably the best news of this announcement. Due to the river and lack of development in this area there is not really an efficient way to cross over from one to the other.

Agreed, yeah... right now, your choices are I-240, HEB/SH-9 spur, or city streets (north of SW 19th/SW 149th). A faster connector between I-35 and I-44 along the Indian Hills corridor will be most welcome.

Yeah, Newcastle is primed for rapid growth if/when that connector gets built

One thing i just noticed is, in theory, when this is done you'll see less semis in the city because every route can now use a turnpike as a bypass.

One thing i just noticed is, in theory, when this is done you'll see less semis in the city because every route can now use a turnpike as a bypass.
The placement of the Kickapoo turnpike and the bend on the new bypass design still seem odd to me, unless they were expressly trying to keep it a bypass and limit suburban sprawl, which seems unlikely. Such a massive jog to the east makes it unlikely new housing on the east side of Norman would take it into the city, so seems likely to put more pressure on i35 when it could have relived some off it. Kickapoo in general is so far out it does not seem will have the type of population they tend to look for in the rest of their loop routes before it needs major renovation.

There is also the kink at bottom of the Kickapoo turnpike that goes the opposite way the extension will track, it looks like there is a path they could have taken without changing the rest of what was built that would move the juncture two miles closer to the North/South section in Norman, and it is pretty clear from how they built the juncture they were planning to extend it in the not too distant future.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/turnpikes022222b.jpg

No mention of Kilpatrick on and off ramps being redone along Memorial.

yes, this is a big problem right now even

On the graph they show nothing for the I-235/KT interchange. With the 44/235 completion plus current/expected new business between 44/KT (on 235) this is going to bottleneck like crazy. If not addressed it will be a daily mess as cars backup for this 4 mile stretch. Cars going north on 235 wanting to go west on TP have 1 lane and its on the right competing with oncoming traffic. With downtown growth and far NW OKC growth this is one of the better ways to go. Once bottlenecked its not. That puts even more pressure on NW Exp as a backup. Going I-40 west to TP (from downtown) is not feasible die to constant I-40 construction ongoing.

One other note related to an earlier post by someone (east county growth). There is no good traffic corridor to make this happen. If you are in Choctaw or even Harrah and want to get to OKC for work or play your only option is 23rd street which is 45mph and littered with lights and jurisdictions. If not this road you have to go south or north many miles to get to major highway. The best option (wonÂ’t happen) is to build a TP over 23rd to I35. Elevated isnÂ’t good weather wise and cost is prohibitive. Thats why the far NW area is growing faster due to better driving options.

yes, this is a big problem right now even

Its possible that these types of interchange improvements will be done concurrently with the Access Oklahoma projects. They are doing the Texas turnaround at Portland. But seems like it would only be done one interchange at a time over many years.

Its possible that these types of interchange improvements will be done concurrently with the Access Oklahoma projects. They are doing the Texas turnaround at Portland. But seems like it would only be done one interchange at a time over many years.

The state has already said there will be other work on top of this program. They haven't included any work that might be needed on the turnpikes along US-412 as it is converted to an Interstate.

17355

Had never heard about 412/I-48, but looks like it would help with travel times to Denver by car eventually.

(via http://www.futureinterstatecorridors.com/I-48.html)

17355

Had never heard about 412/I-48, but looks like it would help with travel times to Denver by car eventually.

(via http://www.futureinterstatecorridors.com/I-48.html)

That's not real. No number has been assigned yet and the authorized corridor is just between I-35 and I-49 in Springdale, AR. Inhofe and Tom Cotton got the new Interstate inserted into the big roads bill last year.

Between the turnpikes and the stretch through Tulsa almost all of 412 in Oklahoma is already an interstate standard highway, but may need some bridge or median barrier work in places.

There are two sections that will need big upgrades in Oklahoma. The ~20 mile section just east of Tulsa is partially interstate standard today, but some bridges and limited access exits would need to be added. The last section right at the Arkansas state line will most likely need an all new highway for several miles to match up with whatever kind of bypass Arkansas decides on for Siloam Springs. Arkansas has far more work to do than Oklahoma.

OTA, ODOT and Arkansas' department of transportation are doing a study on what will be needed this year.

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2022/jan/31/portion-of-us-412-in-arkansas-oklahoma-designated/

Oh bummer

Yeah and unfortunately I don’t think I-27 is going through the Panhandle either. Texas to want it to go through NW New Mexico and connect to I-25 near Raton.

Yeah and unfortunately I don’t think I-27 is going through the Panhandle either. Texas to want it to go through NW New Mexico and connect to I-25 near Raton.

The one listed in our panhandle should do the same. Keep going west to Raton and I-25.

The one listed in our panhandle should do the same. Keep going west to Raton and I-25.
Agreed though since I’m in SimCity building mode I’d propose a spur to Limon and a Spur from US-412 to OKC. No tolls. Needs massive federal investment. Extend the interstate from OKC to Texarkana to open up a new connection from the SE to the Rockies. I bet that’s successful. 25+ billion dollars investment needed.

On the graph they show nothing for the I-235/KT interchange. With the 44/235 completion plus current/expected new business between 44/KT (on 235) this is going to bottleneck like crazy. If not addressed it will be a daily mess as cars backup for this 4 mile stretch. Cars going north on 235 wanting to go west on TP have 1 lane and its on the right competing with oncoming traffic. With downtown growth and far NW OKC growth this is one of the better ways to go. Once bottlenecked its not. That puts even more pressure on NW Exp as a backup. Going I-40 west to TP (from downtown) is not feasible die to constant I-40 construction ongoing.

One other note related to an earlier post by someone (east county growth). There is no good traffic corridor to make this happen. If you are in Choctaw or even Harrah and want to get to OKC for work or play your only option is 23rd street which is 45mph and littered with lights and jurisdictions. If not this road you have to go south or north many miles to get to major highway. The best option (wonÂ’t happen) is to build a TP over 23rd to I35. Elevated isnÂ’t good weather wise and cost is prohibitive. Thats why the far NW area is growing faster due to better driving options.

On another board, Plupan has proposed a turnpike running roughly between 63rd and Wilshire runniing east from I35 out to the Kickapoo. Surprised he hasn't responded.

The state has already said there will be other work on top of this program. They haven't included any work that might be needed on the turnpikes along US-412 as it is converted to an Interstate.

They are adding an exit on the Cimarron at Glencoe and also look to be doing something to the junction with the Stillwater spur. May be added merging lanes or something similar. Would suspect they will add a Jersey barrier for that stretch.

On another board, Plupan has proposed a turnpike running roughly between 63rd and Wilshire runniing east from I35 out to the Kickapoo. Surprised he hasn't responded.
Yes that would be a great option to have. Hopefully development doesn’t go nuts and choke that idea out of the realm of possibilities.

Community meeting in Norman to discuss proposed turnpikes planned: https://www.news9.com/story/62213874c9c7950720a34e6c/norman-community-meeting-planned-for-ota-projects-in-cleveland-mcclain-counties

To be expected some Norman area officials are already whining about the project: https://www.news9.com/story/621ff106b63831072ba390aa/norman-city-councilmembers-voice-concerns-over-proposed-turnpike-expansion

"Whining" @pluplan? Poor choice of words. Many of us directly impacted by this ridiculous plan for the south metro will do whatever we can to be heard.

"Whining" @pluplan? Poor choice of words. Many of us directly impacted by this ridiculous plan for the south metro will do whatever we can to be heard.
Yeah maybe but the conversation is just “no.” Not how is this going to work and the process to be properly compensated for property acquisitions. It’s the same thing as any other infrastructure project that requires eminent domaine. If you take the freeway to work chances are you are using a facility that took someone’s home at some point.

https://twitter.com/BiermanForHD44/status/1499567389666594833


The turnpike expansion is a good example of what happens when govt’s don't work together to solve problems. State leadership needs to pump the brakes & bring the city, county, & community members to the table to create a plan that works for Norman residents, not at their expense.

https://twitter.com/BiermanForHD44/status/1499567389666594833
It’s a good example of good planning that will ensure proper connections for a very long time.

Multiple cities have done pretty poorly on having planed for plausible highway expansion, multiple of the areas here and the Kilpatrick extension could have avoided having neighborhoods destroyed if they would have actually been willing to seriously look at which sort of route they wanted in their area when the original Kilpatrick extension was proposed 3-4 decades ago, then just not permitted neighborhoods built in their preferred route that was farmland at the time, which expanding a route east of i35 near flood would have also been a logical corridor from that as well. But instead they allowed construction in all the logical routes making the road path worse, costs much higher, many more houses need be demolished no matter what route was picked.

It also seems like there should have been a corridor left to allow north/south freeway past mustang somewhere around Sara Road to connect the Kilpatrick's southwest corner to highway 4 south of Mustang but it looks like that ship has sailed.

Good news is the opposition has very little chance of stopping this. Their best hope is to get leaders at the state level involved and luckily Oklahoma isn’t dominated by a bunch of anti car nuts like California or Oregon so that isn’t likely. It’s hard to fight ODOT and even harder to fight the OTA.

When I spoke with the OTA last week I was told the only corridor that could be very significantly altered was the one by Will Rodgers as there are more hoops to jump through.

I agree they need to basically plow a freeway through mustang. That will get people up in arms as well but it needs to happen. You could get away with maybe just a few dozen homes connecting SH-4 to the Kilpatrick which would allow for a very useful bypass of OKC to I-44 and SH-9/I-35 by Riverwind. I was told they considered it but it wasn’t politically feasible at this time. Could be something in the future but that possibility gets bleaker by the year.