There are scenarios were this actually results in OK legislature changing law to allow construction projects being funded by bonds, If they can't hide behind OTA boogeyman anymore. Half of the population thinks OTA is a private entity.

The big issue is that they're stopping ALL work, not just the Norman stuff. That includes the 3-lane designs for Turner Turnpike, etc. So that's the big change. Most people are focused on the Norman work, but Access was bigger than that...

they were just floating all that work with existing funds ... but that is simply not something that can continue ..

The big issue is that they're stopping ALL work, not just the Norman stuff. That includes the 3-lane designs for Turner Turnpike, etc. So that's the big change. Most people are focused on the Norman work, but Access was bigger than that...

Drummond requests investigative audit of Oklahoma Turnpike Authority | Oklahoma Attorney General
https://www.oag.ok.gov/articles/drummond-requests-investigative-audit-oklahoma-turnpike-authority

This could be a factor in going forward with new projects as well.

It feels like this is a precursor to the Supreme Court ruling not going OTA’s way.

Or the AG's investigative audit revealing some rather nefarious financial dealings.

17985

That statement just confirms the AGs actions are just political. OTA saying it doesn't want to spend money it doesn't have: oh must be something fishy going on..........

If the audit agency doesn't find a suggestion for OTA to improve on then they didn't do a very good job because every government agency has waste. That's their job after all, find government waste. They don't need a politically aspiring AG to tell then to do their job.

How is it that the OTA has so much bond debt that they can't afford to make improvement's to existing toll roads?
Oh wait, I guess that's because discovery in the latest case showed that they spend 6-15x more per mile of road than ODOT.
An audit is for sure needed.

That statement just confirms the AGs actions are just political. OTA saying it doesn't want to spend money it doesn't have: oh must be something fishy going on..........

If the audit agency doesn't find a suggestion for OTA to improve on then they didn't do a very good job because every government agency has waste. That's their job after all, find government waste. They don't need a politically aspiring AG to tell then to do their job.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems you are suggesting it is not the place of the AG to request an audit. If you feel the auditor should act on their own when auditing agencies, then you are mistaken in how it works.

https://www.sai.ok.gov/frequently_asked_questions/

Can audits be requested?
Alleged fraud or abuse in goverment may be reported to the State Auditor, but the State Auditor cannot initiate or begin an audit without the official request of a specified government entity/officer or the approval of an official petition.

The Attorney General may request an audit in any matter that the Attorney General is investigating. (74 O.S. § 18f)

How is it that the OTA has so much bond debt that they can't afford to make improvement's to existing toll roads?
Oh wait, I guess that's because discovery in the latest case showed that they spend 6-15x more per mile of road than ODOT.
An audit is for sure needed.

I can think of a couple of legitimate reasons for this off the top of my head.

I wouldn't read too much in to this. It simply means that they are being fiscally responsible and pausing any work that's not funded. Once the cases are resolved (and they will be and OTA is going to get pas all the delays) and they'll be right back at it.

Nothing so far as shown (as much as I despise the OTA), that it's really anything more than delays. Re-do the meetings. Re-do the plans and things to follow the proper guidelines. They absolutely have the right to take bonds, so all of this is just going to delay what will eventually happen.

I did laugh a bit at their comment about the items being critical. It's critical if you are looking to bring in more money to the OTA, but while the Norman pieces are nice (unless you're a property owner), calling them critical is a stretch. Same with Turner being 6 lanes. If I35 in OKC can be stuck at 4 lanes as long as it has been, well i'm pretty sure we'll survive with a 4 lane Turner for a while longer.

Oh OTA, you're such a farce. You'll win in the end, but you're also a drama queen.

I wouldn't read too much in to this. It simply means that they are being fiscally responsible and pausing any work that's not funded. Once the cases are resolved (and they will be and OTA is going to get pas all the delays) and they'll be right back at it.


yup... this... i think people are reading way too much into this. the OTA was hoping all was resolved and the bond money would be coming in by now. this is just them realizing this is going to take longer, and so are waiting until they have that money... i think it means they have heard the SC ruling will be delayed even longer, not that it is coming soon and that they know the outcome is against them.

Its going to be awkward if a newly elected Governor Drummond is one of the dignitaries cutting the ribbon on a new Norman turnpike in 2027.

Im not paying to read this joke, but it's typical stuff they would create to attract clickbait.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/04/19/access-oklahoma-turnpike-authority-opponents-say-toll-road-system-at-risk-insolvency/70127010007/

So without even reading it, i can tell you from the title, that this is bull. In case anyone forgot, it's a toll system. If they are in danger of being "insolvent" they stop maintenance or construction somewhere and just raise the tolls. Who's going to tell them no to a rate hike? Have you ever seen a rake hike denied?

I know we all hate the OTA (myself included), but much like the Norman people that were spreading lies about Access Oklahoma (and its the same group now really) this causes you lose credibility for your cause. Don't make up crap and then try to pain them as the bad guy. Creating a bunch of lies makes you just as much of a bad guy here.

And shame on the Jokelahoman for publishing trash like this, knowing it's just full of inaccuracies.

Posted this earlier and it's still a good listen. Skip to minute 16 to get past all the mumbo jumbo.
Some really good info on the court case the OTA just lost and the current OTA financials.
https://freedom969.com/podcast/the-j...ay_file=133146
I can understand now why the state AG will be doing the audit.

State government cancel culture in action. Keep up the good work to slow down Accesss Oklahoma.

https://www.okenergytoday.com/2023/05/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-loses-bond-adviser-after-being-blacklisted-by-treasurer/

State government cancel culture in action. Keep up the good work to slow down Accesss Oklahoma.

https://www.okenergytoday.com/2023/05/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-loses-bond-adviser-after-being-blacklisted-by-treasurer/

This doesn't slow down Access Oklahoma, it slows down progress in Oklahoma. Build it now!

https://www.koco.com/amp/article/oklahoma-cherokee-nation-stitt-offers-extension-car-tag-compact/44796792

https://www.koco.com/amp/article/oklahoma-cherokee-nation-stitt-offers-extension-car-tag-compact/44796792

if they dont' want to play ball with the state .. .then a stop and ticket policy for all of those tags on turnpikes should be put into effect ..

That's a mess OTA/OHP wouldn't want to get into even if they had the legal authority to do that. Another issue is vehicles hauling trailers. Those plates are often blocked. I suspect Oklahoma will adopt front plates specialfically for this reason.

Duplicate

That's a mess OTA/OHP wouldn't want to get into even if they had the legal authority to do that. Another issue is vehicles hauling trailers. Those plates are often blocked. I suspect Oklahoma will adopt front plates specialfically for this reason.


18225

https://www.cars.com/articles/which-states-dont-require-a-front-license-plate-1420663046939/

18225

https://www.cars.com/articles/which-states-dont-require-a-front-license-plate-1420663046939/

Kansas is in the process of moving to Plate Pay as well. Although their toll roads aren’t nearly prolific as they are here.

Kansas is in the process of moving to Plate Pay as well. Although their toll roads aren’t nearly prolific as they are here.

Kansas was smart. They have ONE turnpike and it hits Wichita, Emporia, Topeka (Capitol City), and the Kansas side of the Kansas City Metro. Oklahoma basically has this with the HE Bailey, Turner, and Will Rogers that connected Lawton, OKC, Tulsa, and ends just before Joplin. However, I think the rural turnpikes bring down the progress that could be made on the metro turnpikes and heavily traveled I-44 turnpikes.

I would assume the KTA has a much easier time maintaining one turnpike and it is traveled well enough to continuously maintain the roadway with revenue.

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/annual-report/2021-OTA-AnnualReport.pdf - Page 88 is the breakdown of Oklahoma revenue by turnpike.

For example, in 2021 the Kilpatrick brought in roughly 5 times the revenue as the Cherokee Turnpike and both are about 30 miles in total length.

Kansas was smart. They have ONE turnpike and it hits Wichita, Emporia, Topeka (Capitol City), and the Kansas side of the Kansas City Metro. Oklahoma basically has this with the HE Bailey, Turner, and Will Rogers that connected Lawton, OKC, Tulsa, and ends just before Joplin. However, I think the rural turnpikes bring down the progress that could be made on the metro turnpikes and heavily traveled I-44 turnpikes.

I would assume the KTA has a much easier time maintaining one turnpike and it is traveled well enough to continuously maintain the roadway with revenue.

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/annual-report/2021-OTA-AnnualReport.pdf - Page 88 is the breakdown of Oklahoma revenue by turnpike.

For example, in 2021 the Kilpatrick brought in roughly 5 times the revenue as the Cherokee Turnpike and both are about 30 miles in total length.

That's true, but it's also true for non turnpike roads. The cities are always going to be subsidizing the rural roads. But you need the rural roads to literally help feed the city.

I would be willing to bet $1 the 3rd lane on l-35 from OKC to the Texas line ends up as a toll road.

I've turned into quite the fan of Mileage Mike. Here is a informative and thorough breakdown of the toll landscape of Oklahoma, including history and some of its absurdity...

https://youtu.be/EWxxj-DFtt8?si=OVilGBURchc-8i5E

I've turned into quite the fan of Mileage Mike. Here is a informative and thorough breakdown of the toll landscape of Oklahoma, including history and some of its absurdity...

https://youtu.be/EWxxj-DFtt8?si=OVilGBURchc-8i5E

While he did some evaluation, it seems was more just an engineering evaluation, and did not even notice how much is politically motivated. At least the last two rounds of expansion approvals read like a political compromises, which is the only two rounds I have been old enough to witness, and it sounds like probably goes back to the first route. On top of which there have been multiple eras where OTA and ODOT executives are the same person, and are often building basically what ODOT would done if they had more funds.

I would be willing to bet $1 the 3rd lane on l-35 from OKC to the Texas line ends up as a toll road.
That's the only way they're gonna be able to fund it in the time frame they want to get it done.

Just goes to show that you ca⁸n fight "City Hall". OTA to pay over 2 million in property compensatipn.
https://kfor.com/news/jury-awards-oklahoma-family-2-97-million-for-loss-of-home-and-property-to-kickapoo-turnpike/

This similar to the Cusack meets parking lot that takes up a chuck of Scissortail Park. Its important for their trucks to turn around or something like that, so it lowers value from the main building. This is a special case so I wouldn't expect widespread rulings against OTA.

Just goes to show that you ca⁸n fight "City Hall". OTA to pay over 2 million in property compensatipn.
https://kfor.com/news/jury-awards-oklahoma-family-2-97-million-for-loss-of-home-and-property-to-kickapoo-turnpike/

the OTA should 100% appeal this and drag it out to the last mile they can ..

the OTA should 100% appeal this and drag it out to the last mile they can ..

Why?

Why?

Probably bc if they go ahead with overpaying for the property (by everyone's standards except the homeowner) what is to stop the next one? The next 100 from doing the same thing which only drives up the cost for the taxpayers.

I fully believe homeowners should be justly compensated anytime this happens but going well above even the highest estimates is too much.

Probably bc if they go ahead with overpaying for the property (by everyone's standards except the homeowner) what is to stop the next one? The next 100 from doing the same thing which only drives up the cost for the taxpayers.

I fully believe homeowners should be justly compensated anytime this happens but going well above even the highest estimates is too much.

exactly correct ..

Probably bc if they go ahead with overpaying for the property (by everyone's standards except the homeowner) what is to stop the next one? The next 100 from doing the same thing which only drives up the cost for the taxpayers.

I fully believe homeowners should be justly compensated anytime this happens but going well above even the highest estimates is too much.

Except a jury awarded this to them, so they were justly compensated...

Except a jury awarded this to them, so they were justly compensated...

Maybe, that's for the appeals process to determine. Its no secret that OTA is not liked by most of the population.

Except a jury awarded this to them, so they were justly compensated...

A jury isn't made up of experts. They are made up of human beings, very likely not experts in any way, shape or form.

So they aren't a fair way to say that the party isn't getting above any beyond.

Except a jury awarded this to them, so they were justly compensated...

their own expert said the property was worth $1.9... they got awarded $2.9...

Except a jury awarded this to them, so they were justly compensated...

A jury who inflated the value for emotional reasons and not based on any expert opinion. The plaintiffs own expert valued it at 1.9 yet somehow they got 2.9?

I've been on both juries and attorney run faux juries. People throw $ amounts around withput any consideration for true value. If they have a stick-it-to-the-man attitude, these inflated amounts happen. Since l wasn't at the trial, there could be reasons this "punative" amount was awarded.

I've been on both juries and attorney run faux juries. People throw $ amounts around withput any consideration for true value. If they have a stick-it-to-the-man attitude, these inflated amounts happen. Since l wasn't at the trial, there could be reasons this "punative" amount was awarded.

I don't believe punitive damages are available against the state.

What's really at issue in a condemnation case from the lawyer's point of view is you're trying to get 10% above the commissioners' award. These aren't usually contingency cases. The attorneys will have lots of hours, probably at the highest $/hour they can justify tied up in this thing. If they get 10% above the commissioners' award, the state pays those attorneys fees.

A jury verdict can be set aside if it's against the clear weight of the evidence. Even the trial judge has discretion to do something like that. I'm sure, without doing research, that there are cases on point here and that the courts will already have some pretty clear case law directing everyone on what's going to happen.

That said, I'm sure OTA had a numbe thrown at them for a settlement and they rejected it. They had to have thought they could get a better deal from the jury and they too chose to roll the dice. Everyone is just assuming here that it was the landowners who were being unreasonable. Having dealt with adjusters and insurance companies, trust me, they can be oftentimes even more unreasonable than the plaintiffs or defendants.

I have no doubt that is true but the justification of awarding an amount so far in excess of the worth of the land would be interesting to read.

I have no doubt that is true but the justification of awarding an amount so far in excess of the worth of the land would be interesting to read.

I mean.. anyone who has tried a jury case (I have tried a few) knows that juries are very unpredictable. In a civil case, you can get a defendant's verdict when you are 100% sure and have the best possible facts behind you. I've had that happen to me. My dad (former judge) had a case where a child molester had written an apology to the victim and that apology was admitted into evidence. The jury acquitted after 45 minutes of deliberations. He called up District Judge Jack Parr, to ask him what he was supposed to do when he took the bench--he wanted to tear into the jury. He was told to thank the jury for their service and send them on their way. The next week, Parr was in the news for laying into a jury he thought got it wrong.

Here, I'll bet you the ODOT attorneys thought they could get a defense friendly verdict and save some money. They got it wrong. They're probably right moer than they're wrong about those sorts of things, but you put a case to a jury and anything can happen. That's why the vast majority of these cases settle.

Homeowners should be getting higher than market value. The amount of time and effort to move can be costly. The biggest problem is that finding a property like yours nearby may be nearly impossible and may force you to live even further away to get a like property. Living further out makes it more expensive time and money wise. The OTA paying above market value would make the process a little bit easier for the homeowner.

Relocation costs are part of the deal. We had a similar case in Garfield County with the Super Walmart where we got the county to agree that our client's property was damaged to 100% of the value because they could no longer access it for ag purposes. So I think these homeowners were entitled to a similar deal. I'm guessing the appraisals being talked about in the news are what they thought the property was damaged, not including the value of the remainder. I'm thinking two pieces of land bisected by a turnpike with zero access probably aren't worth much.

All these posters upset that someone in their opinion is "getting over." It should be noted that this case has been tied up for over 5 years and interest has been accruing. Also State Rep Conley Klan sold her property for over 100k of its appraisal. The linked article explains why OTA pays in excess of appraisal. Klan got to live in her house rent free for a year plus other benefits.
https://kfor.com/news/local/lawmakers-house-purchased-by-ota-for-proposed-turnpike-plans/

And an article on the family who fought OTA and won.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/does-the-turnpike-authority-have-an-unfair-advantage-over-homeowners-this-family-fought-and-won/ar-BB1lrNgj?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=71b80481f51f43ef8ed8ac150f37c4aa&ei=24

Ok here is my beef with OTA. This week I had to go to Tulsa for some personal business. I know how to get to that place. After I had planned to meet a lady about a facebook market place ad. She said get on 75 south and get off at 111th Ok. Well do to confusing signs I would up on the Creek nation tpk. I got off at the first exit. I called her back to find out how I get from that location to her. Found out she just moved to Oklahoma and had no idea where I was. After driving in the wrong direction that she gave me I did finally meet up with her about an hour later. Ok on Thurs I call OTA about the confusing sign and that I feel that I should not be charged that toll since I was stuck and could not back down the ramp it was 5 pm rush hour. I had no place else that I could go after i figured out that the sign was wrong. They said I needed to go to 122nd and I 35 to have it taken care of. Ok I drive there. The steps up are well sort of round and almost fell, I have bad knees. Ok then I get in and wait in line only to find out that they only sell Pike Passes and they cannot help me. They did say there was a ramp ( again no sign to be able to avoid the steps) ugh I cannot do ramps. Wasted trip. Thanks OTA for telling to go to the wrong office.

Ok here is my beef with OTA. This week I had to go to Tulsa for some personal business. I know how to get to that place. After I had planned to meet a lady about a facebook market place ad. She said get on 75 south and get off at 111th Ok. Well do to confusing signs I would up on the Creek nation tpk. I got off at the first exit. I called her back to find out how I get from that location to her. Found out she just moved to Oklahoma and had no idea where I was. After driving in the wrong direction that she gave me I did finally meet up with her about an hour later. Ok on Thurs I call OTA about the confusing sign and that I feel that I should not be charged that toll since I was stuck and could not back down the ramp it was 5 pm rush hour. I had no place else that I could go after i figured out that the sign was wrong. They said I needed to go to 122nd and I 35 to have it taken care of. Ok I drive there. The steps up are well sort of round and almost fell, I have bad knees. Ok then I get in and wait in line only to find out that they only sell Pike Passes and they cannot help me. They did say there was a ramp ( again no sign to be able to avoid the steps) ugh I cannot do ramps. Wasted trip. Thanks OTA for telling to go to the wrong office.

did you try a tag agency? that is where you likely need to go

did you try a tag agency? that is where you likely need to go

Tag agencies don’t offer turnpike refunds.

Tag agencies have nothing to do with OTA. The big issue is not the $2 but the fact of bad signage and me having to drive around for an hour to try to get where I was trying to go. Confusing signage is not acceptable. Esp when it takes you way out of your way and you are doing this at rush hour. The traffic on 75 was more then stupid when people are driving 3 wide in 2 lanes. I get lane split fo rmotorcycles but cars????

I am mad at OTA sending me to a Pikepass location. I did not need a Pikepass. I needed to get the signage and $2 plate pay taken care of. Its not the $2 its the mess of trying to drive and find were I was. I did not take a map with me. I guess I need to keep a map with me in my truck.

I am mad at OTA sending me to a Pikepass location. I did not need a Pikepass. I needed to get the signage and $2 plate pay taken care of. Its not the $2 its the mess of trying to drive and find were I was. I did not take a map with me. I guess I need to keep a map with me in my truck.

what about a sign was confusing? ?

US 75 south just south of Tulsa. I was looking for 111th. Sign said exit and 111th st. I got in that lane and when I was at the exit (it was 5 pm traffic) I thought it was exit as well as turnpike entrance. Like after getting off then it split to 111th st and then the turnpike entrance. Nope. It was just to get on the turnpike. I could not stop or back up the ramp since that would be unsafe. i got off at the first exit. I dont know the area. I called the lady back that I was meeting for a facebook market page meet up. She said go south then turn back west and go to the Walmart. Well that Walmart is in Sapulpa. I drove the parking lot looking fo rher vehicle. could not find it. Called her back and she told me where she was. I said I was by the fuel pumps. No pumps at the one she was at. Asked where she was. She said on 111st but did not know the cross street, she just moved to Tulsa from Calif. I tried back to the east and found another Walmart. Ok that was not a fun 1 hr. I did not take a map with me. I dont know that area. Ugh that is why I am upset. I should have taken my Tulsa area map.

Its not the $2 toll that I will be charged. I called OTA the next day, they said that I have to come to 122nd and I 35 to talk about it. They could do nothing over the phone. Ok so I drive to 122nd and I 35. They said they only sell Pike Passes there. See why I am mad.

Its not the $2 toll that I will be charged. I called OTA the next day, they said that I have to come to 122nd and I 35 to talk about it. They could do nothing over the phone. Ok so I drive to 122nd and I 35. They said they only sell Pike Passes there. See why I am mad.

Are you mad that you wasted more than $2 in gas and time to argue paying a $2 toll?

I feel like I have to point out that the Glenpool walmart is off of 121st st, not 111th, so that is what led to your confusion and eventual turnpike fiasco. Don't think they will refund anyone for accidentally getting on the turnpike, otherwise there would be a lot more reported "accidental" usage.

...

Anyway, anyone been by the turnpike widening project on Turner in awhile? I am wondering if it has advanced to the "concrete walls on both sides" stage where it becomes easier to take route 66 during peak times. Looks clear on traffic view so far.

I am mad because I thought I was getting off at the 111 st exit and instead got on the turnpike due to bad signage. I dont know the area and the person told me to get off at 111 st exit. I drove around for an hour trying to find her. I am mad due to bad signage. I wanted to explain the bad sign to the person at the OTA number that I called. They said I need to talk in person about the sign. They said I have to go to the office at 122nd and I 35 to talk about the sign. I went to 122nd and I 35 and the people there said they only sell pike passes and dont do anything about signs. This is why I am upset. Wild goose chase by OTA

I got off on something and the lady said go west I went west to the wrong walmart. That was not the issue. it was the sign. I was lost. The lady had no idea where I was since I could not now follow her directions. I did not have my map with me. I am not talking about a $2 toll, I am talking about winding up lost without a map then being told my ota to drive to the 122nd office, ie this is where are offices of ota are located and you need to come down here in person and speek to the right person about the signage issue.

I got off on something and the lady said go west I went west to the wrong walmart. That was not the issue. it was the sign. I was lost. The lady had no idea where I was since I could not now follow her directions. I did not have my map with me. I am not talking about a $2 toll, I am talking about winding up lost without a map then being told my ota to drive to the 122nd office, ie this is where are offices of ota are located and you need to come down here in person and speek to the right person about the signage issue.

except it was not the sing

i looked at it on google st view ..

there were 2 different signs ..

the turnpike exit sign and the 111th in 1/2 mile sign ..

So this was a PlatePay or a Pikepass plate lookup charge? There would have been a greater chance of them dismissing the toll if you called them immediately instead of paying. Cost more to go after that 2 dollars.

I feel like I have to point out that the Glenpool walmart is off of 121st st, not 111th, so that is what led to your confusion and eventual turnpike fiasco. Don't think they will refund anyone for accidentally getting on the turnpike, otherwise there would be a lot more reported "accidental" usage.

...

Anyway, anyone been by the turnpike widening project on Turner in awhile? I am wondering if it has advanced to the "concrete walls on both sides" stage where it becomes easier to take route 66 during peak times. Looks clear on traffic view so far.

Was on the Turner last Wednesday, Apr 10. K rails are up on all lanes and dirt work is underway. No traffic issues when I passed through mid afternoon.